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Simon · Mar 18, 2009, 06:32 AM

Thanks!

Hg2491 · Mar 18, 2009, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Hmmm, seems the DS is fine with connecting peer to peer over WiFi with no router, why shouldn't the iPhone be?

Exactly. Or isn't the iPhone capable of creating a peer-to-peer connection?

Maflynn · Mar 18, 2009, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

On another forum:

"I downloaded OS 3.0 and in the advisory doc it says any phones that have 3.0 installed on them will be locked as beta phones and you won't be able to downgrade back to 2.x. You also can't dev for 2.x with a 3.0 phone.".

Originally Posted by jokell82

Guess I won't be downloading this one early...

Why would you want to. I mean its one thing d/l a beta OS for your computer, but quite another for a phone. Potential to brick it is high, potential stability issues and potential of not being able to upgrade it to the released OS.

Personally I'd rather wait till they finish working on it before loading it on my iphone.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 07:37 AM

While I agree with most of your reasoning, upgrading to 3.0 release is pretty much a must. You don't think Apple would make themselves responsible for rendering tens of thousand developer's iPhones useless would you?

Mac User #001 · Mar 18, 2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

iPhone 3.0 installed thanks to anonymous benefactor. Taking questions.

And no, you can't remove the built in apps. Damn.

That is a bit frustrating. Oh well. At least all their app icons look pretty.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Ah, the joys of beta OSes: Bugs bugs bugs

..... Woah. That's messed up.

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Why would you want to. I mean its one thing d/l a beta OS for your computer, but quite another for a phone. Potential to brick it is high, potential stability issues and potential of not being able to upgrade it to the released OS.

Personally I'd rather wait till they finish working on it before loading it on my iphone.

Smart, but I'm sure Apple made sure that all these phones that get the software won't brick. They'll just suffer serious bugs like e r i k.

Maflynn · Mar 18, 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

Smart, but I'm sure Apple made sure that all these phones that get the software won't brick. They'll just suffer serious bugs like e r i k.

true but we're not talking about software from apple but from torrent sites. There's no way to know who messed up they may or may not be. There's a huge difference to getting an preview/beta/early release software from apple and grabbing it from some torrent site.

Maybe I'm being overly dramatic but personally, I can wait a few months to get the os and when I do, ti will (hopefully) be more stable and feature complete then what I find on a torrent site.

Salty · Mar 18, 2009, 02:52 PM

I would have liked tethering... but it's probably good for my pocket book that they didn't add it... I'd probably need to up my data plan

jokell82 · Mar 18, 2009, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

true but we're not talking about software from apple but from torrent sites. There's no way to know who messed up they may or may not be. There's a huge difference to getting an preview/beta/early release software from apple and grabbing it from some torrent site.

Maybe I'm being overly dramatic but personally, I can wait a few months to get the os and when I do, ti will (hopefully) be more stable and feature complete then what I find on a torrent site.

You are being overly dramatic, as there are sites where you can download the exact files the developers get. So really there is no difference in getting it from Apple or one of those sites.

But I digress, I have no problems trying out buggy software but if there is no way to go back it's just not worth it for me. Luckily there are people like erik that will be able to whet our appetites enough.

kman42 · Mar 18, 2009, 06:13 PM

How do you bring up the copy/paste function in Safari? In other apps, it is with a double-tap, but if you do that in Safari it will just zoom in.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

I would have liked tethering... but it's probably good for my pocket book that they didn't add it... I'd probably need to up my data plan

Tethering is supported from Apple. It's up to the individual carriers if they want to support it or not.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by kman42

How do you bring up the copy/paste function in Safari? In other apps, it is with a double-tap, but if you do that in Safari it will just zoom in.

Tap and hold.

It only works if a page is fully loaded too.

MacinTommy · Mar 18, 2009, 06:28 PM

Did they preview the turn-by-turn? I was too lazy to watch the video and if so is their a voice saying directions?

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 06:33 PM

I should also add that in non-zoomable application, tap and hold also works. It brings up the magnifying glass as normal, but when released it brings up a context menu asking if you want to select or select all.

It's quite intuitive in actual use.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by MacinTommy

Did they preview the turn-by-turn? I was too lazy to watch the video and if so is their a voice saying directions?

Turn by turn needs to be brought on board by Third Parties as Google Maps can't be licensed for Turn By Turn. All Apple did was lift the restrictions on such apps. I believe the screen shot they used for this was merely to illustrate a possible UI, not an actual app.

As we already know, third parties have been working on this since the SDK came out. So expect some competition in this market shortly after 3.0 goes public.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 18, 2009, 06:44 PM

Minor update in Messages: The Sending progress bar is now integrated in the top bar instead of coming up as a black overlay. Much less obtrusive.

For the record, I hate the new stripy look of the iPod, Messages and Phone icon. Yuck.

MacinTommy · Mar 18, 2009, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Turn by turn needs to be brought on board by Third Parties as Google Maps can't be licensed for Turn By Turn. All Apple did was lift the restrictions on such apps. I believe the screen shot they used for this was merely to illustrate a possible UI, not an actual app.

As we already know, third parties have been working on this since the SDK came out. So expect some competition in this market shortly after 3.0 goes public.

I really hope Garmin makes an app.

jokell82 · Mar 18, 2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by MacinTommy

I really hope Garmin makes an app.

If one of the major GPS companies makes an app, don't expect it to be cheap. I would expect $99 apps from them...

Eug · Mar 18, 2009, 09:09 PM

USB Tethering Seems to be Working in iPhone 3.0 - Mac Rumors

kman42 · Mar 18, 2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Hg2491

Exactly. Or isn't the iPhone capable of creating a peer-to-peer connection?

I find this odd as well. Why would they restrict the peer-to-peer to just bluetooth. Wouldn't a first person shooter, as an example, be way more responsive over WiFi?

kman42 · Mar 18, 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

If one of the major GPS companies makes an app, don't expect it to be cheap. I would expect $99 apps from them...

There's already an app called gMap (I think) that does turn-by-turn and it only costs $20. I would expect there to be lots of competition in this market and if the big guys won't come down, they will lose out quickly. gMap looks to have some issues, but if the developer can put that together without Apple's SDK support, then I imagine there will be numerous competitors jumping in the market now that they have Apple's blessing.

MacinTommy · Mar 19, 2009, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

If one of the major GPS companies makes an app, don't expect it to be cheap. I would expect $99 apps from them...

I would definitely pay for good quality.

Simon · Mar 19, 2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by kman42

I find this odd as well. Why would they restrict the peer-to-peer to just bluetooth.

Battery concerns maybe?

- - e r i k - - · Mar 19, 2009, 05:21 AM

That was my first thought too. But wouldn't enabling an extra radio that I normally keep off be just as much of a drain? What are the battery drain comparing the two radios?

jokell82 · Mar 19, 2009, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by kman42

There's already an app called gMap (I think) that does turn-by-turn and it only costs $20. I would expect there to be lots of competition in this market and if the big guys won't come down, they will lose out quickly. gMap looks to have some issues, but if the developer can put that together without Apple's SDK support, then I imagine there will be numerous competitors jumping in the market now that they have Apple's blessing.

Problem is companies like TomTom and Garmin know that if their software was available on the cheap for the iPhone no one would buy their standalone units. They're going to want to protect their current business.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 19, 2009, 06:57 AM

Some more shots for you.

This happens when you tap and hold a link:

New inline SMS indicator:

And finally, MMS needs to be enabled (along with tethering) through the carrier file.

Unfortunately, although I appear to have all the correct settings sending MMS hangs and eventually fails at the last step.

Hg2491 · Mar 19, 2009, 08:15 AM

Bluetooth also has a range limit. What if I want to play with someone who is in another room or floor?

shifuimam · Mar 19, 2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

If one of the major GPS companies makes an app, don't expect it to be cheap. I would expect $99 apps from them...

Not only that, but expect it to be a huge download. It would suck to try and have turn-by-turn with maps that are downloaded in realtime and buffered in the iPhone's memory. We were using the boyfriend's iPhone in Indy to find our way somewhere, and I discovered that it sucked compared to using my Mio C230 GPS, simply because I had to wait for Google Maps to download the map data and load it up before I could see that portion of the map (same thing when zooming in/out). A GPS is much faster, because all the map files are locally stored in the unit's flash storage.

My GPS has a gig of internal space, and that's not even enough for maps from all fifty US states (I uploaded different maps to my C230 so that I'd have more POIs). If the iPhone had a MicroSD slot, I could see how it could be legitimately used as a GPS. Now, Garmin might come out with a dock connecting expansion deal that allows using the iPhone's display to interface with its GPS software, but I think I'll stick with a normal GPS.

Originally Posted by kman42

I find this odd as well. Why would they restrict the peer-to-peer to just bluetooth. Wouldn't a first person shooter, as an example, be way more responsive over WiFi?

Originally Posted by Hg2491

Bluetooth also has a range limit. What if I want to play with someone who is in another room or floor?

There's actually a note-taking app (I forget what it was called, unfortunately) that already does P2P note sharing over WiFi. I would imagine that Apple is talking about officially supported P2P stuff...

kman42 · Mar 19, 2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

That was my first thought too. But wouldn't enabling an extra radio that I normally keep off be just as much of a drain? What are the battery drain comparing the two radios?

Don't most people keep WiFi on under most circumstances? While I'm sure power users switch it on and off to save battery life, it is on by default so I think most users would never think to turn it off. I use it all day at work and home and my battery life isn't that bad. The only time I am not accessing data through WiFi is when I am in the car, etc.

slugslugslug · Mar 19, 2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by kman42

Don't most people keep WiFi on under most circumstances? While I'm sure power users switch it on and off to save battery life, it is on by default so I think most users would never think to turn it off. I use it all day at work and home and my battery life isn't that bad. The only time I am not accessing data through WiFi is when I am in the car, etc.

That's what - - e r i k - - was saying. It's the bluetooth radio that he doesn't normally have on, so why does the P2P connectivity favor that? You both have a very legitimate question, and I thought it was a weird choice too.

I would imagine they could add in Wi-fi peer-to-peer communications later on and have it be transparent to existing apps.

Spheric Harlot · Mar 19, 2009, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

My GPS has a gig of internal space, and that's not even enough for maps from all fifty US states (I uploaded different maps to my C230 so that I'd have more POIs). If the iPhone had a MicroSD slot, I could see how it could be legitimately used as a GPS.

Um...shif: The iPhone has EIGHT GB or SIXTEEN in its current iteration...

I have no problem with downloading and installing 2 GB of maps onto my phone for having a decent integrated navi.

ctt1wbw · Mar 19, 2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

That's because it's pretty much *everything* people were asking for - except Flash.

The lack of Flash was to be expected, and everything else that would have made the iPhone a problem for me has been addressed.

...except one single thing I haven't seen: is it now possible to delete individual SMS, or can you still only remove entire conversations?
It's kind of important to be able to conserve individual messages, without having to keep a couple hundred.

Oh, just give it time. I have complete faith in the Mac community to start ranting and raving and whining about something. It's one of the things that keeps me going.

Mac User #001 · Mar 19, 2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

That's what - - e r i k - - was saying. It's the bluetooth radio that he doesn't normally have on, so why does the P2P connectivity favor that? You both have a very legitimate question, and I thought it was a weird choice too.

I would imagine they could add in Wi-fi peer-to-peer communications later on and have it be transparent to existing apps.

I don't remember them ever saying that it would prefer Bluetooth for P2P connectivity. They seemed to be demoing it as a feature for instances like on the road, where no wifi is available.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 19, 2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

I don't remember them ever saying that it would prefer Bluetooth for P2P connectivity. They seemed to be demoing it as a feature for instances like on the road, where no wifi is available.

WiFi is always available for peer-to-peer.

Mac User #001 · Mar 20, 2009, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

It's the bluetooth radio that he doesn't normally have on, so why does the P2P connectivity favor that?

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

WiFi is always available for peer-to-peer.

I know, but slug was asking why it preferred Bluetooth for P2P, and I don't believe it does.

zro · Mar 20, 2009, 03:50 AM

What, no scroll bars in Safari? SOB!
Happy now, ctt?

Spheric Harlot · Mar 20, 2009, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mac User #001

I know, but slug was asking why it preferred Bluetooth for P2P, and I don't believe it does.

They explicitly talked only about Bluetooth (the bit with the kids in the car playing a game together).

shifuimam · Mar 20, 2009, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Um...shif: The iPhone has EIGHT GB or SIXTEEN in its current iteration...

I have no problem with downloading and installing 2 GB of maps onto my phone for having a decent integrated navi.

I KNOW that the iPhone has plenty of storage - that's not the issue. The issue is updating maps, which are very large files compared to installing apps from the app store, downloading songs on iTunes, etc. Trying to download 2+GB of map files over 3G would be horrendous.

I suppose they could provide a way to update the map files over USB, but if it's over 3G, I'll pass and stick with my Mio, We'll just have to see what comes out in the next few months,

ajprice · Mar 20, 2009, 10:09 AM

There's a 10mb App Store limit over 3G. think SH meant to say -

I have no problem with downloading to my Mac and installing 2 GB of maps through iTunes onto my phone for having a decent integrated navi.

I'd be happy to plug my iPhone into my Mac and download the maps through iTunes and sync it over.

jokell82 · Mar 20, 2009, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I KNOW that the iPhone has plenty of storage - that's not the issue. The issue is updating maps, which are very large files compared to installing apps from the app store, downloading songs on iTunes, etc. Trying to download 2+GB of map files over 3G would be horrendous.

I suppose they could provide a way to update the map files over USB, but if it's over 3G, I'll pass and stick with my Mio, We'll just have to see what comes out in the next few months,

I'm trying to understand the scenario where you would download 2+ gigs of maps over 3g. If the application comes with all of the maps, you would have to download it over Wifi (10 meg limit over the cell networks) or download it via iTunes and sync it up. If it didn't come with the maps, the application would surely auto-download on demand. While it wouldn't be as fast, you would never have to download the entire US map over 3g in that scenario either...

gradient · Mar 21, 2009, 06:50 PM

It's too bad they weren't able to address my biggest feature request (search mail for email body content) but overall this looks like a VERY nice upgrade - I'm looking forward to it.

0157988944 · Mar 21, 2009, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by gradient

It's too bad they weren't able to address my biggest feature request (search mail for email body content) but overall this looks like a VERY nice upgrade - I'm looking forward to it.

That feature was introduced unless I'm inventing memories.

turtle777 · Mar 21, 2009, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I KNOW that the iPhone has plenty of storage - that's not the issue. The issue is updating maps, which are very large files compared to installing apps from the app store, downloading songs on iTunes, etc. Trying to download 2+GB of map files over 3G would be horrendous.

I suppose they could provide a way to update the map files over USB, but if it's over 3G, I'll pass and stick with my Mio, We'll just have to see what comes out in the next few months,

I don't understand what you are talking about.

Updating of large maps would be confined to WiFi or iTunes, not over 3G, just like any other content. And "via USB", I assume you mean connected to iTunes.

-t

gradient · Mar 22, 2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

That feature was introduced unless I'm inventing memories.

They added search functions to Mail but, as I understand it, contents of the email body are not searchable. That was my impression from watching the keynote, and seems to be supported by Engadget's brief description of Spotlight:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/17/i...tlight-search/

- - e r i k - - · Mar 22, 2009, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

That feature was introduced unless I'm inventing memories.

Yup. Header search only (for now?).