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Looking for input/opinion on a logo design
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shifuimam
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
I'm attempting to design some kind of relatively simple logo for a possible side project the boyfriend and I will be undertaking, involving selling custom computers to college kids here in town.

I'd like some opinions on the logos I've come up with. It's pretty image heavy (I have six variations right now), so rather than post a poll here, please just go here and vote:

http://shifuimam.com/misc/

I'd appreciate any input anyone has, as well. Thanks!!
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osiris
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:13 PM
 
I picked #5, but in all honesty I think they're hard to read. I would add a bit of space between B and E, whilst retaining the cool curvy look.
Just my 2.
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0157988944
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:38 PM
 
I don't see the BE as two different letters. needs space.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:38 PM
 
Possibly something like this?



Obv with more refined curves - I just did that as a quickie.
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0157988944
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:40 PM
 
No, I think slicing the BE in number five down the middle and moving one a few pixels away would be fine. the overlap in that one doesn't fit with any theme; none of the other letters overlap.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:42 PM
 


I'm just not sure if I like the straight edges like that.

I could make the vertical bars on the B and E the same width as everything else, but then I think it'd look too bulky...
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0157988944
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:44 PM
 
Well, I didn't mean quite so literally. round out the edges so they look like whole letters. Though it may be a bit bulky, as you say...
     
Chuckit
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Mar 27, 2009, 04:56 PM
 
Actually, the V and i do overlap — the top of the V is where the i-dot should be. But I agree that splitting it down the middle would probably work better than some sort of weird outlne. The B and E definitely need separating. As is, it looks like "Vi王".
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osiris
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Mar 27, 2009, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Possibly something like this?



Obv with more refined curves - I just did that as a quickie.
I think that's better, a little refinement on the curves and you may have it.
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dav
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Mar 27, 2009, 05:24 PM
 
they're all fairly complex designs, but i picked no. 3 since i found the little star between the "B" & "E" distracting.

disclaimer: i generally prefer simpler logo's like this...

one post closer to five stars
     
Thorzdad
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Mar 27, 2009, 05:26 PM
 
That big ocean in between the V, I, and B...we call that "trapped space". Not good. The viewer's eye/subconscious will try to make something of it. That can be a good thing if you are actually trying to depict something (the arrow in the FedEx logo, for example.) But, generally, large trapped spaces like this should be avoided.
     
Andrew Stephens
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Mar 27, 2009, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
That big ocean in between the V, I, and B...we call that "trapped space". Not good. The viewer's eye/subconscious will try to make something of it. That can be a good thing if you are actually trying to depict something (the arrow in the FedEx logo, for example.) But, generally, large trapped spaces like this should be avoided.
Which is why like number 1 the best. However I do think that all of them suffer from failing to fully resolve the problem of the B an E. No 1 is best at this too since the B and E are most abstract.
     
Yose
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Mar 27, 2009, 06:00 PM
 
I get what you're trying to do with the B but it reads as Vı3E. You need to some how close up the counters within the B. I think to do that you'll need to work with the i and make it work harder. *see what Thorzdad said about the trapped space, it's preventing us from closing in the back of the B with our mind.

I did this quickly to show you what I mean.



Good luck
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epluth
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Mar 27, 2009, 06:48 PM
 
Edit
( Last edited by epluth; Mar 27, 2009 at 09:57 PM. )
     
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Mar 27, 2009, 07:43 PM
 
Sorry, I don't like any of them. In fact, I'm not sure I even like the name Vibe for any technology devices. That's a name for music equipment.
     
epluth
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Mar 27, 2009, 08:24 PM
 
Edit
( Last edited by epluth; Mar 27, 2009 at 08:35 PM. )
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 08:31 PM
 


How about that?

Edit:

Or, with the mid horizontal line of the B a bit longer, so it looks less like a 3:



Also, for the record, the blue is one color that will be behind the logo. The plan is to have it made into white decals that will be affixed on the computer cases, which are available in a variety of colors - orange, lime green, turquoise, hot pink/magenta...plus black, white, and a metallic sort of light navy blue. All the machines but the black one have white accents, which is why we're going with white on the logo and will be pairing it with a white keyboard and mouse.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Mar 27, 2009 at 08:39 PM. )
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besson3c
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Mar 27, 2009, 08:43 PM
 
Interesting idea Shif. If you don't mind my curiosity, what inspired this, and how will your computers be different than what students would otherwise purchase?
     
Hg2491
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Mar 27, 2009, 08:44 PM
 
I think it would look nicer this way:
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 08:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Interesting idea Shif. If you don't mind my curiosity, what inspired this, and how will your computers be different than what students would otherwise purchase?
Well, the area that we're in (Lafayette) has a lot of college kids, given that we've got Ivy Tech and Purdue. We're going to market toward mid-range gamers (e.g. gamer geeks who aren't geek enough to just build their own machine), and people who want a unique and sexy computer (girls, style-conscious types, etc.).

The case is really awesome. In fact, it's reminiscent of the old iMac G3 days. I remember the primary reason I so coveted those was because they were so damn colorful and cute. That's the angle we're going at on this - a machine unique, customizable, and way cheaper than comparably-configured machines from other manufacturers. We're going to start somewhere in the $650-$700 range and go up to $1200-$1400, depending on the configuration (I'm talking like a quad core with 4GB RAM and a relatively high-end video card for gaming).

It's a no-capital sort of project. We won't spend money on anything except a domain until someone orders a machine - once we have the money, we order the parts. We're not looking to do computer repair or a wide range of machines for sale; it's just a little side project to see what we can make of it.

There's pretty minimal effort on our part to get started, and building machines is super fast for us because we know what we're doing...so we'll see how it goes.

I know the desktop market isn't huge with college kids, but with the proliferation of netbooks, I think there could be a market for a desktop and netbook sort of setup for students.

Originally Posted by Hg2491 View Post
I think it would look nicer this way:
I must be missing something here...
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Phileas
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:14 PM
 
Right now all of the designs are self serving - meaning you're trying to be clever or cute or all of the above for the sake of being clever, or artsy, or cute.

When you design a logo, you need to start from the essence of the company you're designing for. Define what you are, what you stand for, what you are really selling. Once you have decided on that value, express it through graphic design.

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Hg2491
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:15 PM
 
Color choice. The logo itself is ok. Well, maybe the BE can be close to the I. In that sense, try putting the I in a different color.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:20 PM
 
The logo is going to be white, so that it matches any case color...
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shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Right now all of the designs are self serving - meaning you're trying to be clever or cute or all of the above for the sake of being clever, or artsy, or cute.

When you design a logo, you need to start from the essence of the company you're designing for. Define what you are, what you stand for, what you are really selling. Once you have decided on that value, express it through graphic design.

Good luck.
I disagree - look at some of the most famous logos. An apple has absolutely nothing to do with technology or electronics, but it's one ubiquitous logo. It seems more like you'd want a logo that people recognize as yours - not necessarily one that tells them what you sell just by the appearance of the logo.
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Chuckit
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:56 PM
 
The apple actually does relate to technology. Specifically, it relates to inspiration and creative thinking in science. Beyond that, it's a simple and elegant logo that feels friendlier than your average tech company's logo at the time. I think all that relates pretty well to the company that, as it likes to brag, "ignited the personal computer revolution."
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Mar 27, 2009, 09:56 PM
 
I like Yose's sketches a lot. The B reads as B.

That said, I like your last one better than the ones in the poll. Perhaps extend the top line of the B further behind the V. It still reads more as backwards 3 than B.

I would also drop the small caps in the tagline, they will disappear at smaller sizes anyhow so may as well have allcaps or stronger text.
     
Chuckit
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Mar 27, 2009, 10:18 PM
 
One thing I kind of liked in the original that's missing now: The "Vi" sort of formed a ligature. Now the "i" is either inexplicably midgety or it's missing its dot.
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shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 27, 2009, 10:19 PM
 
That's the font itself doing the small caps - I did this on my work machine, so I didn't have a lot of fonts installed to play around with...that part will get some rework as we use the logo with things. The logo itself is what I'm more concerned with ATM.
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Mar 27, 2009, 10:48 PM
 
To me it looks like hot butt-to-butt action.

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Mar 27, 2009, 11:05 PM
 
What about concentrating on the V or something? Vibe sounds to me like a motion work, like vibrations.

Edit: Something like this maybe.

( Last edited by olePigeon; Mar 27, 2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Uploaded picture.)
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Mar 28, 2009, 03:05 AM
 
The rounded lettering, block color, one straight edge-V, etc. start to look a little too subconsciously 'ATI' to me. But unlike their logo, unfortunately yours isn't really screaming 'high-tech', 'premium' or even 'custom'. (All hard things to convey with a logo).

I agree with the trapped space problems. Again, unlike ATI (the T being conveniently symmetrical) the shapes between your letters overpower the letters themselves. Way too many elements looks like the logo is trying too hard. (ATI-esque V, small I, 3 that reads like a 3 but is supposed to be a B, etc..) Maybe if the name of the company is actually V-ThreE...

Maybe scrap the idea of large block letters with larger and smaller lettering with the word 'Vibe'- it simply ends up looking makeshift.

And personally, I hate it when logos have overlapping lettering with non-uniform bordering going on at the overlaps-it creates even more distracting negative space, and with the wrong set of letters, often just ends up looking like everything was monkeyed around with a lot. Plus if you had to reduce the logo for print, it'll become razor-thin, or worse, disappear altogether and look like ****. Bottom line, if you design heavily relies on it, it's not a great design.

I use the 'would I buy something from this company, when there are many others to choose from?' test- and for most of the above logos, the answer is "probably not". Dav's logo= maybe. That's not bad. Simple, and not too many elements going on. That company might just make something that could honestly be considered 'premium'. Also olePigeon is on the right track- you could probably do a lot with just the V. (But then keep the company name lettering simple in contrast). Why bother dealing with four distracting design elements spelling out the word 'Vibe' when you could concentrate on just one element, done well, and probably end up with a much more effective logo? Also, I'd assume a computer company logo should look good as a case 'badge'. A nicely stylized V, I could see working.

Anyway, my 2.5 cents.
     
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Mar 28, 2009, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I disagree - look at some of the most famous logos. An apple has absolutely nothing to do with technology or electronics, but it's one ubiquitous logo. It seems more like you'd want a logo that people recognize as yours - not necessarily one that tells them what you sell just by the appearance of the logo.
What you sell is not what you are. Understanding that difference is the first step towards running a successful business. Apple is innovation. Whether or not the manage to consistently live up to that expectation is irrelevant, but they know what they want to stand for. Southwest Airlines see themselves as a service company that just happens to be an airline. Volvo don't sell cars, Volvo sells safety, etc, etc.

The first Apple logo looked liked this:



As you can see, it depicts Newton underneath the apple tree, just before inspiration hit in the shape of an apple. The logo got subsequently simplified, but it expresses Apple's DNA to this day.

Just by way of establishing credentials on this, I am a Creative Director in a branding agency. I make my living from understanding brands and creating their graphical expressions. The conversation you've been having on this page is about aesthetics, not about meaning. If your logo doesn't capture the meaning of your company, your soul if you will, it is nothing but wallpaper - pretty but blah.

My suggestion is to go back, find out what and who you are and then take that as a starting point for everything you do, from the way you answer emails to how your logo looks. Here is the link to a presentation that we use to explain to our clients what a brand is, and how it can be expressed through graphics: http://app.sliderocket.com/app/FullP...D-BCE23B778289

Hopefully you'll find it useful.
( Last edited by Phileas; Mar 28, 2009 at 08:40 AM. )
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Mar 28, 2009, 10:19 AM
 
I do understand what you're saying...this isn't a big company we're trying to start or anything. It's just a little side business for some extra cash. We're not trying to become the next Dell or Apple or HP.

I can totally understand that when you want to become the next big thing, you need the perfect logo.

I'll take into consideration the input given here. Thanks, guys.

Also: I should clarify that the name of the computer is the Vibe - that's what we're pushing, so that's why the logo says "Vibe Premium Computers" under it...
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Mar 28, 2009, 10:44 AM
 
The last version on the page here is okay to me—but I still read it intuitively as “K3E” or “KEE”, rather than “ViBE”.
     
Phileas
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Mar 28, 2009, 01:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I do understand what you're saying...this isn't a big company we're trying to start or anything. It's just a little side business for some extra cash. We're not trying to become the next Dell or Apple or HP.
I understand that, but the size of the company is irrelevant. When Woz and Jobs started Apple it was two guys in a garage, pretty much the same situation you're in now. Still, they - or rather Jobs - took the time to understand and express what they were all about, even at that very early stage.

The first logo they used seems amateurish by today's standards, but the message behind it hasn't changed. The purpose of the company got defined early, and while Apple lost their way during the 1990's, they are now back on track. Imagine Jobs posting a sketch for the Apple logo on here, all these years ago. While we would have discussed the execution and the aesthetics, the meaning behind the logo would always have been clear.

With the logos you've been posting, all we have is aesthetics, and they, in the end, come down to personal preference. What you haven't done yet is imbue your design with meaning.

What I am saying is that if you decide to think this through, I am pretty certain you'll have more success as a business. Plus, it's a fun thing to do.

Anyway, here endeth the lecture. Having your own business can be a lot of fun, I hope you'll succeed.
     
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Apr 2, 2009, 01:25 PM
 
I loved the old fruit label logo. It'd be fun if Apple did another Anniversary Mac and shipped in a box with their old label on it.
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lyanma
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Apr 2, 2009, 01:44 PM
 
So, Shifuimam which logo are you finally going to use?

Edit: olePigeon, I really liked your idea!
( Last edited by lyanma; Apr 2, 2009 at 01:50 PM. )
     
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Apr 2, 2009, 10:00 PM
 
This is why design by committee never works. Pick the first one. The second one Yose came up with is also good.

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shifuimam  (op)
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Apr 3, 2009, 02:21 AM
 
I'm not sure yet what we're going to do - we're still in the early stages of planning this little venture, so we'll see. I think it's likely that we'll go with the last one I posted and use some form of the V where appropriate.
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Apr 3, 2009, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
What about concentrating on the V or something? Vibe sounds to me like a motion work, like vibrations.

Edit: Something like this maybe.

I was thinking something like this. Not sure I'd use a letter or anything that can't be done in a line drawing or with no more than 1 color. Only problem is keeping it from looking like an audio logo of some sort.

In regards to the originals, I'd lose the leaning V. Looks like it came from the Vibe magazine logo. Also, an effective logo should be instantly recognizable at any size. From a tie tack to a billboard. No deciphering should be necessary.


@ Phileas: Using the Apple logo as an example of picking a logo because it's "who they are" is ridiculous. Their name is Apple. What the hell did you think their logo would be? A lion? It's not many corporate names that can be represented so precisely without text of any kind. Allstate would be a better example because their logo is based on their tag line.
     
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Apr 3, 2009, 04:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
@ Phileas: Using the Apple logo as an example of picking a logo because it's "who they are" is ridiculous. Their name is Apple. What the hell did you think their logo would be? A lion? It's not many corporate names that can be represented so precisely without text of any kind. Allstate would be a better example because their logo is based on their tag line.
"Ridiculous"?

Only if you assume that the name is a coincidence. If it's completely arbitrary, the Newton/Apple logo is the attempt to retroactively imbue it with meaning, as you suggest.

Of course, that's complete nonsense: Neither the "Apple" name nor the logo are arbitrary. The brand was not an accident.

Also, the first Apple logo was NOT AN APPLE. It was a picture of Newton sitting under the tree.

As can be seen from the past ten years, Jobs is a master at creating and focusing the brand.



The problem I see here is that "Vibe" has connotations of audio, or of comfy-feely, but has absolutely no association whatsoever with computer hardware.
     
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Apr 3, 2009, 04:28 AM
 
Of course, the logo is completely irrelevant. Having your end product 50 cents cheaper than the next guy is the most important thing. And unless you're buying parts in bulk (i.e. 100 at a time, minimum) simply ain't possible. Got the t-shirt.
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Phileas
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Apr 3, 2009, 05:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Having your end product 50 cents cheaper than the next guy is the most important thing.
For most new business ventures, that's a surefire way into failure. Most people can't and should not compete on price, they need to find something else. Expertise, service, quality, whatever. Price is the least important part of a product if the rest of the package makes sense.

Originally Posted by zro View Post
@ Phileas: Using the Apple logo as an example of picking a logo because it's "who they are" is ridiculous. Their name is Apple. What the hell did you think their logo would be? A lion? It's not many corporate names that can be represented so precisely without text of any kind. Allstate would be a better example because their logo is based on their tag line.
It looks to me like you know little, if anything, about two things: Branding and the history of Apple, especially as directed by Steve Jobs. Where do you think the name Apple came from? Do you think it was an accident? Do you think it just appeared out of nowhere? Do you think there was some magical virgin Mary experience and all of a sudden there was a company called Apple?

No, Jobs especially knew from the very beginning of Apple what kind of company he wanted to create and set out to express that DNA in everything they did. The naming, the logo, the packaging, the product design, the software experience, nothing is accidential or did just happen.

Edit: Allstar's logo btw is not based on their tagline, it is based on what they want to be. The tagline just expresses that sentiment.

You need to look below the surface to understand.
( Last edited by Phileas; Apr 3, 2009 at 06:14 AM. )
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 3, 2009, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Of course, the logo is completely irrelevant. Having your end product 50 cents cheaper than the next guy is the most important thing. And unless you're buying parts in bulk (i.e. 100 at a time, minimum) simply ain't possible. Got the t-shirt.
And here I thought you were an Apple user all this time!
     
Doofy
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Apr 3, 2009, 07:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
For most new business ventures, that's a surefire way into failure. Most people can't and should not compete on price, they need to find something else. Expertise, service, quality, whatever. Price is the least important part of a product if the rest of the package makes sense.
Perhaps this applies to other business models, but not in the world of selling PCs to college students. We're competing for beer money here.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
And here I thought you were an Apple user all this time!
Of course.
But that don't stop me selling crap to the masses.
About eight years back I experimented with setting up a company selling PCs. Couldn't compete - the big 'net retail outlets started selling systems cheaper than I could buy the parts in for.

There's no getting around it - people want cheap. It's why half the crap in our houses comes from China.

Here's a breakdown:
• Average PC user - wants cheap (as long as it runs Office).
• Gamer - doesn't care about cheap, but will build the system himself from parts (else will just get a Wii).
• Power user - will get the parts himself.
• Average user who doesn't care about cheap - buys a Mac.

I'll shut up now, since my opinion is slightly OT and I don't want to get whined at.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Maflynn
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Apr 3, 2009, 07:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Perhaps this applies to other business models, but not in the world of selling PCs to college students. We're competing for beer money here.
I disagree, people don't want cheap, that want value for their dollar, more so today in this economy. If shif tries to under cut her competitors and barely make any profit, what will she do when her competitors undercut her? They being in business longer may have the resources to weather the smaller profits.

Then there's how are you going to invest those profits, if you don't make much you'll not be able to expand the other areas that Phileas touched on.

If you make a good product, that fills a niche and work towards increasing service, and quality the sales will come.

While apple is a much much (much) larger company they chose to stay away from the pricing wars. Dell, Gateway and packard bell their ilk did not, their support and quality suffered and look where they are now?

If I buy a computer I want a reasonable expectation to have support and I'm getting a decent computer. Mom and dad who pay junior's tuition bill probably feel the same, while the computer will be competing for beer money, they also realize that spending a little more now may save them more $$ later.
~Mike
     
Oisín
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Apr 3, 2009, 07:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Perhaps this applies to other business models, but not in the world of selling PCs to college students. We're competing for beer money here.
And yet students are the biggest market for Macs (at least in Denmark).
     
Doofy
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Apr 3, 2009, 07:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
And yet students are the biggest market for Macs (at least in Denmark).
Macs. Not PCs from the local mom and pop outlet.

And I'll bet 99% of them have "Book" somewhere in their model name.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Apr 3, 2009, 07:53 AM
 
I have a feeling that you guys are taking this project way more seriously than we are.

We're not looking to be the next Apple. We just want to see what happens with this idea - we're not looking to compete with any of the big computer companies. We're more or less doing this for fun. There may not even be enough of a market for us to make anything of this, but we won't know that until we try.

And, FTR, not all geeks build their own machines. Someone who's more of a programming geek, etc, isn't going to be knowledgeable enough about hardware to build their own box, or they may simply not have the time or inclination to make the effort to do so.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
Doofy
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Apr 3, 2009, 08:11 AM
 
The way I see it Shif there's two possible markets from which to make some money:

• Building specialist machines for folks in A/V studies, if their departments use Windows stuff.

• Getting a few cheap laptops and acting as a hire service for when students' lappies break (for that two weeks while it's shipped back to hospital, fixed and sent back).

Let's face it, outside of A/V most students are going to go laptop, possibly grabbing a new one off a major box shifter along with an extended warranty when they start their course.

Good luck. At the very least you'll never have to buy a set of coasters again once you sign up with M$ as a seller (they come at the rate AOL disks used to!).
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
 
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