Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > colder longer: cubed or crushed ice?

View Poll Results: What will keep a room temperature drink cold for the longest amount of time?
Poll Options:
Cubed ice 12 votes (80.00%)
Crushed ice 3 votes (20.00%)
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll
colder longer: cubed or crushed ice?
Thread Tools
abbaZaba
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 05:33 PM
 
as I refill my drink and watch football on this chilly Turkey Day, a thought crosses my mind. what will keep your drink colder longer: crushed ice or cubed ice? my gut feeling is that crushed ice will make your drink stay colder longer and you won't have to deal with as great a drink dilution. my reasoning behind this is the fact that you can fit a lot more crushed ice into a glass than cubes. also, the ice is more evenly distributed through the glass and the drink is colder overall; with cubes, the ice floats at top and is warmed by the drink below thus making it melt faster and only the top part of the drink gets chilled

There seems to be some debate about this, the other side of the argument being that the larger surface area of the cubed ice will chill the drink faster, but I am sticking with my first thought.

I guess you can pose the question in two variations: "what will cool a room temperature drink faster?" and "what will keep the drink cold for the longest amount of time?"

how does everyone else weigh in?
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 05:52 PM
 
Cubed. Crushed ice, or ice shaped like pot leaves (the reason I've already had this discussion) = greater surface area. The increases surface area cools the drink more rapidly, but given the same amount of ice, the cubes (that lacked surface area in comparison) would stay "ice" longer, thus keeping it cold longer.

As for the cubes on the surface of the drink only cooling the top of the drink, bzzt. When it does cool the some of the fluid, that sinks, and the warmer stuff rises to the top, to be cooled again. It kind of works like a lava lamp, and endless cycle of moving fluid that gradually "warms" the ice up into water.

As for the dilution comment, if you are taking crushed ice, and filling the glass, you'd be putting MORE ice into the glass than with cubes. Thus, more water. So it dillutes the drink more than normal.

Another comparison would be snow, in the spring time. The small chunks of snow that are spread out over a field quickly melt away in the sun, but the large, big PILES of snow remain snow for quite a while, purely because they have LESS surface area than if you were to spread the snow out.

In short: If you want a warm liquid cooled quickly, use crushed. If you want a drink to stay cold the longest, use cubes. If you don't want it to be diluted, use a big honkin piece of ice.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 06:09 PM
 
Crushed ice with salt will generate even more cold.

-t
     
abbaZaba  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
Cubed. Crushed ice, or ice shaped like pot leaves (the reason I've already had this discussion)
personally, I've never seen a pot shaped ice cube, but I guess that's just me. I feel that a five pointed, jagged edge ice cube is hard to come by.


Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
As for the cubes on the surface of the drink only cooling the top of the drink, bzzt. When it does cool the some of the fluid, that sinks, and the warmer stuff rises to the top, to be cooled again. It kind of works like a lava lamp, and endless cycle of moving fluid that gradually "warms" the ice up into water.
well, this was my reasoning behind the fact that cubed ice will give you a more diluted drink. as the warmer liquid moves to the top of the glass, it melts the cubed ice faster, thus making it more diluted and thus diminishing the lifetime of the cubes of ice. perhaps I am reading this incorrectly but the fact that you mention the sinking and rising of different temps of liquid, and that this process goes on even if you are NOT drinking, would lead me to believe that cubed ice will melt faster.


Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
As for the dilution comment, if you are taking crushed ice, and filling the glass, you'd be putting MORE ice into the glass than with cubes. Thus, more water. So it dillutes the drink more than normal.
I think you may be proving my point here. Since, by volume, there is more ice on the drink, the crushed ice will make the drink stay colder OVERALL, not just near the top of the glass. so, yes there is more ice (thus more water) in the glass, but overall the temperature of the drink as a whole is closer to the temp. of the ice, so it will heat up (from room temp.) slower.

Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
Another comparison would be snow, in the spring time. The small chunks of snow that are spread out over a field quickly melt away in the sun, but the large, big PILES of snow remain snow for quite a while, purely because they have LESS surface area than if you were to spread the snow out.
the only way I can lay into this argument is the fact that snow precipitates in flakes (somewhat likes crushed? less surface area, harder to melt as a whole?); cubes of ice are solid cubes. I feel that this is a big difference between snow and ice. snow doesn't fall in solid pieces. I think that is called "Hail".


Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
In short: If you want a warm liquid cooled quickly, use crushed. If you want a drink to stay cold the longest, use cubes. If you don't want it to be diluted, use a big honkin piece of ice.
I am still going to respectfully disagree with you on this fact
( Last edited by abbaZaba; Nov 26, 2009 at 06:40 PM. )
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 06:43 PM
 
Crushed ice will cool faster, because of the greater surface area. Dilution will be in direct proportion to the cooling - the ice cools the drink by melting (latent heat of fusion) which adds water to the drink.

Cubes have less surface area, so they cool slower. Drink isn't as cold, but will stay (less cool) for longer. And the drink will dilute more slowly.

If you want the drink to stay cool without dilution, you need to use a separate thermal mass (mug with thick glass bottom to store cooling effect) or encapsulate the ice so the melted water doesn't enter the drink, or use a sacrificial material that sublimates (goes to gas) like dry ice.
     
abbaZaba  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Cubes have less surface area, so they cool slower. Drink isn't as cold, but will stay (less cool) for longer. And the drink will dilute more slowly.
I think that this is the answer I was expecting. somewhere in between the two, where the crushed ice cools it faster but eventually ends up melting (still not sure about this) and the cubed stays persistently cold.
( Last edited by abbaZaba; Nov 26, 2009 at 07:32 PM. Reason: typo)
     
FireWire
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Montréal, Québec (Canada)
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by abbaZaba View Post
personally, I've never seen a pot shaped ice cube, but I guess that's just me.


     
abbaZaba  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by FireWire View Post
I wish there was a smiley face that would accentuate the hope instilled in me if someone actually made those ice cubes trays
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 10:05 PM
 
They definitely make them, I bought them for my friend a few christmas's ago.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by abbaZaba View Post
I think you may be proving my point here. Since, by volume, there is more ice on the drink, the crushed ice will make the drink stay colder OVERALL, not just near the top of the glass. so, yes there is more ice (thus more water) in the glass, but overall the temperature of the drink as a whole is closer to the temp. of the ice, so it will heat up (from room temp.) slower.
But now you're changing more than one variable at a time, making an equal comparison impossible. Did you mean to say "Colder Longer: A few cubes or a glassful of crushed ice?"?
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 10:23 PM
 
Way too much thought has gone into this thread.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 10:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Way too much thought has gone into this thread.
You're right, but I have an observation to add. Crushed ice will get the drink colder faster, but it's important to note that it gets colder, thus the ice melts faster (the heat is going somewhere after all). While cubed ice won't get the drink as cold, it will keep the drink cool longer because it melts slower.

It's a tradeoff between speed and endurance. I prefer cubed for endurance, but it's obviously a personal preference.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2009, 11:29 PM
 
Colder: crushed
Longer: cubed
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 12:52 AM
 
Everyone is agreeing with what I said. On another note though...

what do you think turns INTO ice faster?

Cold water or hot water? Answer first, then google it if you want.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 01:27 AM
 
In a very controlled setting, hot water can. But in the real world, cold. Had this experiment in high school chemistry.
     
The Godfather
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Tampa, Florida
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 01:58 AM
 
Pour crushed ice on your drink, let it sit until liquid temperature reaches 0˚C. Use sift to remove all crushed ice. Clunk 4 big ice cubes in drink.
     
abbaZaba  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 04:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
But now you're changing more than one variable at a time, making an equal comparison impossible. Did you mean to say "Colder Longer: A few cubes or a glassful of crushed ice?"?
Pretty sure, yes I did. sorry 'bout that
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
Everyone is agreeing with what I said. On another note though...

what do you think turns INTO ice faster?

Cold water or hot water? Answer first, then google it if you want.
Under 99.99% of conditions, cold water.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 09:28 AM
 
Cold water has less heat to start with, so in general it will freeze faster. I am having trouble imagining a situation where hot water would freeze faster, assuming we're talking about still water without additives...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 01:52 PM
 
Mpemba effect!
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 02:03 PM
 
It should be noted that vanilla-flavoured ice isn't very cool at all, and thus won't be effective in cooling your drink.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Cold water has less heat to start with, so in general it will freeze faster. I am having trouble imagining a situation where hot water would freeze faster, assuming we're talking about still water without additives...
Can hot water freeze faster than cold water?
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Under 99.99% of conditions, cold water.
Wrong. Read link.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 04:20 PM
 
Well, not really. You said "cold water or hot water," whereas the Mpenba effect is usually demonstrated with "colder water or hotter water" – a subtle difference in wording, but from what I've seen it's a relatively small temperature difference, rather than the large one "hot or cold" implies.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2009, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
Wrong. Read link.
What do you mean, "wrong"? The "phenomenon" is referred to as such for a reason.
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 01:27 AM
 
I did it in science class, and it was easily observable. It's not a super rare thing that happens only once in a while.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 12:03 PM
 
And what were the temperature differences when you did it? Relatively small, or fairly large as "hot" and "cold" implies?

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 12:07 PM
 
Big temperature differences, when I did it.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Big temperature differences, when I did it.
Geez, people, can you give the temp diff. in F or C, please.

Big and small is relative.

-t
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 09:51 PM
 
Yeah I just did a little more reading about it, and some sites seem to indicate a very large temp difference – say 35 and 100 degrees C, or 5 and 35 degrees C. When I did it in high school our temperatures were much closer if I remember correctly.

But then Wiki says

A reviewer for Physics World writes, "Even if the Mpemba effect is real — if hot water can sometimes freeze more quickly than cold — it is not clear whether the explanation would be trivial or illuminating." He pointed out that investigations of the phenomenon need to control a large number of initial parameters (including type and initial temperature of the water, size, shape and material of the container, and temperature of the fridge) and need to settle on a particular method of establishing the time of freezing, all of which might affect the presence or absence of the Mpemba effect. The required vast multidimensional array of experiments might explain why the effect is not yet understood
So clearly there are many questions remaining
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
downinflames68
Baninated
Join Date: Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 28, 2009, 09:52 PM
 
I have no idea. Hot water from the sink. Cold water from the sink
     
Railroader
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indy.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 30, 2009, 08:38 PM
 
Is this what you people have resorted to arguing about now...

Hot or cold water freezing faster? What is hot, what is cold? Seriously?!?!

I surmise that the OP created the thread in jest,or a little mental masturbation, but you guys have devolved into what you usually do.

I personally prefer large cubes in very cold refrigerated beverages. I'm not a fan of insulated drinking vessels.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 30, 2009, 09:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Geez, people, can you give the temp diff. in F or C, please.

Big and small is relative.

-t
Sorry, I don't remember specifics from 3 years ago... but the hot was probably boiling or close to boiling, cold was room temperature. I'm guessing.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:07 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,