[olePigeon]

An Honest Liar

Ooooh, I can't wait. One of my personal heroes. Looks like it's gonna be an absolutely awesome documentary.

Interviews with Adam Savage, Richard Dawkins, Bill Nye and lots more.

[nonhuman]

Oh nice, I hadn't heard about this. Can't wait to see him talk at Reason Rally.

[moonmonkey]

I suspect this fellow is an atheist.

I can't wait to see him beg for entry at the pearly gates of heaven while me, jesus and Michael Jackson george ourselves on goose liver.

[Waragainstsleep]

Go ahead and george yourselves all you want.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

An Honest Liar

Ooooh, I can't wait. One of my personal heroes. Looks like it's gonna be an absolutely awesome documentary.

Interviews with Adam Savage, Richard Dawkins, Bill Nye and lots more.

Was Dawkins interviewed before or after this?
Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist - Telegraph

There was surprise when Prof Dawkins acknowledged that he was less than 100 per cent certain of his conviction that there is no creator.
The philosopher Sir Anthony Kenny, who chaired the discussion, interjected: “Why don’t you call yourself an agnostic?” Prof Dawkins answered that he did.
An incredulous Sir Anthony replied: “You are described as the world’s most famous atheist.”
Prof Dawkins said that he was “6.9 out of seven” sure of his beliefs.

[Waragainstsleep]

Most atheists are technically agnostic if you want to nitpick, they simply consider the chances of them being wrong about the existence of God to negligible. 6.9 out of 7 is way lower than I would have said though.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Most atheists are technically agnostic if you want to nitpick, they simply consider the chances of them being wrong about the existence of God to negligible. 6.9 out of 7 is way lower than I would have said though.

If you really want to nitpick, that's completely incorrect. Agnosticism is a position on the question of whether or not it can be known if there are any gods; atheism is a position on the question of whether or not there are any gods.

There are agnostic theists (believe in gods, but don't believe their existence can be known for sure), gnostic theists (believe in gods, and believe their existence can be known for sure), agnostic atheists (don't believe in gods, but don't believe their lack of existence can be known for sure), and gnostic atheists (don't believe in gods, and believe that their lack of existence can be known for sure).

Agnostic does not mean not knowing, it means not believing it's knowable.

So you're correct that most atheists are agnostic (as you can't prove a negative, it would be hard to make a case for gnostic atheism), but that doesn't mean that they aren't also atheists.

[Waragainstsleep]

Then one could argue that the only way you can know if gods exist is if they do so beliving you can know = believing they do.

In more practical terms I tend to think that those who identify as atheists are personally 100% certain of their beliefs but not scientifically certain and agnostics either can't be bothered to make up their minds or are sitting on the fence hedging their bets either just in case or to keep someone else happy.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Then one could argue that the only way you can know if gods exist is if they do so beliving you can know = believing they do.

As with the question of whether or not there's a god, the question of whether or not it's possible to have true knowledge about it is a matter of belief. It's possible to believe that we can know one way or the other without having to say that we already do.

But practically speaking, I think you're totally right about that.

In more practical terms I tend to think that those who identify as atheists are personally 100% certain of their beliefs but not scientifically certain and agnostics either can't be bothered to make up their minds or are sitting on the fence hedging their bets either just in case or to keep someone else happy.

I suspect this isn't the case. I would consider myself, like Richard Dawkins, an agnostic atheist. It would be foolish or me to claim that I know for a fact that there are no gods; however I think it very likely that there aren't to the point that, in my day to day life I simply assume there aren't. And even ignoring the fact that I acknowledge the (I believe remote) possibility that I'm wrong, I simply do not believe there are any gods. This is not a statement of knowledge, it's not saying that I know there aren't any gods, it's simply saying that I see no compelling evidence to convince me that they exist.

This is what it means to be atheist: a lack of belief in gods.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I suspect this isn't the case. I would consider myself, like Richard Dawkins, an agnostic atheist. It would be foolish or me to claim that I know for a fact that there are no gods; however I think it very likely that there aren't to the point that, in my day to day life I simply assume there aren't. And even ignoring the fact that I acknowledge the (I believe remote) possibility that I'm wrong, I simply do not believe there are any gods. This is not a statement of knowledge, it's not saying that I know there aren't any gods, it's simply saying that I see no compelling evidence to convince me that they exist.

This is what it means to be atheist: a lack of belief in gods.

Thats pretty much what I meant. Not 100% certain, but for most practical and day to day purposes, certain enough.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Thats pretty much what I meant. Not 100% certain, but for most practical and day to day purposes, certain enough.

Ah, I misunderstood. Yes, I guess that, for all intents and purposes, I am 'certain' that there is no god. Outside of serious philosophical/theological discussion there's no purpose in making the distinction.

[Waragainstsleep]

Yeah, I probably could have phrased it better.

[d4nth3m4n]

I thought this thread would be about the Aziz Ansari character from "Funny People". Not sure I'm disappointed.