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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Panther 's interface is depressive

Panther 's interface is depressive
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moreno
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:26 AM
 
...I like panther. is fast than previous versions and expos� is a must.

But, in 20 days of use (B80 & B85) i started to notice the crappy interface. What in hell? The windows title bars and menu bar are gray depressive. The finder icon isn't "polished" like others applications. Disk utility was a stupid interface too.

Why apple don't redesign all the interface again, to bring to us something more profissional and cool again?
The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack


i'm being honest.
     
Terri
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:33 AM
 
Jaguar was too bright and colorful for many designers, including me.

I haven't used Panther yet, but I do like what I see in the screen shots.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:35 AM
 
Originally posted by moreno:
...I like panther. is fast than previous versions and expos� is a must.

But, in 20 days of use (B80 & B85) i started to notice the crappy interface. What in hell? The windows title bars and menu bar are gray depressive. The finder icon isn't "polished" like others applications. Disk utility was a stupid interface too.

Why apple don't redesign all the interface again, to bring to us something more profissional and cool again?
The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack


i'm being honest.
Weren't you one of those clamoring for PLATINUM? The terrible, dark, depressing GREY?

Panther is an IMO extremely nice blend of the pinstripes you all hated so much and more subdued coloring. It will change again in 10.4, probably eliminating pinstripes altogether, seeing as they're no longer part of Apple's designs.

-s*
     
wulf
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:42 AM
 
Originally posted by moreno:
The windows title bars and menu bar are gray depressive. The finder icon isn't "polished" like others applications. Disk utility was a stupid interface too.

Why apple don't redesign all the interface again, to bring to us something more profissional and cool again?
The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack
The consensus so far (as I see it) seems to be that the GUI refinements in Panther are more professional and cool.

A lot of people, particularly designers, felt that while Aqua was groovy looking, it was too "in-your-face". Panther is less obtrusive, and feels cleaner, in my opinion.

I certainly find it less tiring on the eyes than Jaguar in extended usage.

Funny though: I don't remember anyone describing OS 9's Platinum GUI as "depressing". Or even "depressive"
     
Love Calm Quiet
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:45 AM
 
Both as a designer and a user of web pages and Mac software, I do NOT want the system features to draw attention. The nice thing about the Platinum ("grey" if you want) is that it doesn't clash with anything - allowing what's important in the window to stand out (via colors, etc.) without having to battle with system borders, etc.

--FWIW
     
Grey Cell
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Oct 15, 2003, 10:46 AM
 
Originally posted by Terri:
Jaguar was too bright and colorful for many designers, including me.
And me.

I've played around a bit with Panther (7B80), and it's a lot more pleasant to work in. I don't want a cool, flashy GUI - I want a simple, unobtrusive, easy-on-the-eyes interface that lets me get on with my work.
     
Grrr
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Oct 15, 2003, 11:01 AM
 
Depressive.. you must be joking right?
If not, then Windoze must make you completely suicidal.
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xi_hyperon
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Oct 15, 2003, 11:13 AM
 
I would have to say I'm a part of the "Panther GUI is better" crowd. I do a lot of design work and Jaguar gets tiring to look at after awhile. Just as an aside though, I think no matter what direction Apple takes with OS X's GUI, someone will complain. At least in this forum, that is.
     
voodoo
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Oct 15, 2003, 11:18 AM
 
I like the Panther GUI. It is good to see Apple modernizing the look. Less pinstripes = good.
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Oct 15, 2003, 11:25 AM
 
Add my voice to the choir: I love Panther's GUI. Yeah

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voodoo
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:04 PM
 
Are all Iberian members of MacNN forums trolls?
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Ratm
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:17 PM
 
I like it, but at first I didn't, but now I do..so yea I like it.
I wonder if this is going to be the final version of metal theme that Apple decides to ship...its different than 7B80? that I was using.
( Last edited by Ratm; Oct 15, 2003 at 12:25 PM. )
     
jbhopper
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:26 PM
 
Jaguar too colorful? It's a white window with 3 spots of color in the left corner (which can be made grey). I don't like the brushed aluminum look all the time. iTunes - fine, QT - fine. Safari - I'd rather not. The finder should not, I hate how Apple is ruining it's own design.
     
danengel
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:33 PM
 
For me, Brushed Metal looks more stable and solid than Aqua. I like it.
     
Terri
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:35 PM
 
Originally posted by jbhopper:
Jaguar too colorful? It's a white window with 3 spots of color in the left corner (which can be made grey).

No it is Graphite which is actually a blueish gray and throws off my whole color perception. That on top of the fact that the pinstripes are way too bright being as they are grey with bright white strips which really messes with my eyes after a few hours.

Platinum was really great to work with all day, nice and neutral and not too bright, but it is pretty ugly to look at when I have to work on a machine running 9 after being in Mac OS X for the last year.

I think the only way that Apple will ever make everyone happy is to introduce themes, but I don't see that happening.
     
sushiism
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:38 PM
 
Originally posted by jbhopper:
Jaguar too colorful? It's a white window with 3 spots of color in the left corner (which can be made grey). I don't like the brushed aluminum look all the time. iTunes - fine, QT - fine. Safari - I'd rather not. The finder should not, I hate how Apple is ruining it's own design.
i feel the same, theres no way safari and especially not finder under any circumstances should be metal, guess i'll be using that os9 style seen as it lets me have it aqua im told
     
Immortal K-Mart Employee
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:49 PM
 
The Pinstripes everywhere in 10.0 - 10.2 are horrible, they look so low res and 1999.

I LOVE how they smoothed it out in 10.3, much cleaner and nice. The interface appearance is close to perfect for me now.

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KidRed
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Oct 15, 2003, 12:55 PM
 
Originally posted by moreno:

The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack


i'm being honest.
HAHAHA. By far, the stupidest thing I've read today. If you don't like it, use one of the many themes out there. They are, after-all, for people who whine about the default OS look. I've been on it far longer then you and greatly prefer it over the puffy, contrasty old school Aqua.
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Telusman
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Oct 15, 2003, 01:46 PM
 
I like the new interface, its not as busy as the old aqua and doesn't give me a headache. I do however dislike the brushed metal finder, it's just not right. I stripped the brushed metal out of Safari, so it's livable now, but Unsanity hasn't released metallifizer for 10.3 yet, but when they do i assure you i'll be getting it, that and clear dock... i dislike the default dock background as well...
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jocker
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:05 PM
 
I do have to say, actually, although everyone on this thread so far has jumped down this guys throat - he actually started his post with "I love panther".

I must agree with him that working on panther does make me melancholy! Maybe its the time of year (autumn in the UK ain't much fun), maybe its because my girlfriend finished with me, maybe I need prozac...

But, you know, Panther is a bit more "moody" than jaguar. But I DO like it. I just want cheering up a bit, either the interface or me.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:06 PM
 
I'm in a professional environment 1/2 of the time, and when you are trying to "sell" the idea of a Mac in an office, the last thing you want to see is the rainbow/lickable interface of jaguar. You want something that says "I'm solid, I'm not going to crash on you, I'm easy to use, I'm your friend"

Not Terminator meets bozo...
     
Jim Paradise
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:13 PM
 
Originally posted by moreno:
...I like panther. is fast than previous versions and expos� is a must.

But, in 20 days of use (B80 & B85) i started to notice the crappy interface. What in hell? The windows title bars and menu bar are gray depressive. The finder icon isn't "polished" like others applications. Disk utility was a stupid interface too.

Why apple don't redesign all the interface again, to bring to us something more profissional and cool again?
The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack


i'm being honest.
     
danengel
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:15 PM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
... the last thing you want to see is the rainbow/lickable interface of jaguar. You want something that says "I'm solid, I'm not going to crash on you, I'm easy to use, I'm your friend"
I'd like to see *everything* metallized anyway. Anybody prepared some mock-ups?
     
Spaztik
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:15 PM
 
I made up a list with screenshots of stuff that I don't like about Panther.

http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/

Check it out. There's gotta be at least one person that agrees with me.
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Hop Pocket
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:21 PM
 
Originally posted by KidRed:
HAHAHA. By far, the stupidest thing I've read today. If you don't like it, use one of the many themes out there. They are, after-all, for people who whine about the default OS look. I've been on it far longer then you and greatly prefer it over the puffy, contrasty old school Aqua.
See, this is why MacNN has such a bad reputation. Someone makes an honest expression of his feelings about the direction of the OS, and tools like yourself come out of the woodwork. You could at least engage in some sort of meaningful conversation about it.

You can be a Mac fanboy and still disagree with SOME things about Apple every now and then.
     
Jim Paradise
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Spaztik:
I made up a list with screenshots of stuff that I don't like about Panther.

http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/

Check it out. There's gotta be at least one person that agrees with me.
I definitely agree with you! (But then again, I'm rather against a lot of the UI changes in Panther.)
     
geekwagon
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Oct 15, 2003, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Spaztik:
I made up a list with screenshots of stuff that I don't like about Panther.

http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/

Check it out. There's gotta be at least one person that agrees with me.
I agree with about 15% of it (the too low desktop icon and the alias icons.) Some I am vehemently opposed to (especially getting rid of the new task switcher that makes cmd-tab actually useable and the return of empty scrollwells.) The rest I am pretty ambivalent about.
     
Hash
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Oct 15, 2003, 03:00 PM
 
Well, Panther GUI is really much, much better than Aqua (at least judging from builds I installed). I wish only that metal look was more consistent. Lets have a choice of all-Aqua and all-metal look (the last being a default one). I actually think since they represent two opposing polars of GUI (lickable versus solid), the choice somehow could satisfy both camps. There is nothing depressing in metal or grey, same as there is nothing euphoric in aqua. Making such statements (GUI make me pessimistic or something like that) sounds very stupid to me. Sure, we can have haxies and themes to change the look, but i'd prefer Apple-implemented choice since third parties have a habit of wrecking the system to the point of unusability.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Oct 15, 2003, 03:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Hop Pocket:
See, this is why MacNN has such a bad reputation. Someone makes an honest expression of his feelings about the direction of the OS, and tools like yourself come out of the woodwork. You could at least engage in some sort of meaningful conversation about it.
I didn't know MacNN had a bad reputation... but I know what you mean. I actually like the more mellow feel.


you saidWell, as you can probably tell from this screenshot, the Fast User Switching menu has a big ugly icon (funky size makes it look jagged too) I'm not a huge fan of this "feature". I wish there were some way to turn it off!.

Isn't that your login icon? You could have a photo of yourself or whatever you like...
     
bracken
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Oct 15, 2003, 03:25 PM
 
Originally posted by moreno:
...I like panther. is fast than previous versions and expos� is a must.

But, in 20 days of use (B80 & B85) i started to notice the crappy interface. What in hell? The windows title bars and menu bar are gray depressive. The finder icon isn't "polished" like others applications. Disk utility was a stupid interface too.

Why apple don't redesign all the interface again, to bring to us something more profissional and cool again?
The "grayish" of panther is like a hack of aqua for me. a poor hack


i'm being honest.
I agree. The Finder icon looks like a little kid made it. The Aqua/brushed metal mix is embarrassing. The new toolbar look (for example, the Finder preferences) with the selected item with a gray background is stupid. My list could go on... http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/ is right on, dead right on.

Panther looks like little kids are designing it and one of them is the bad seed. Embarrassing.
     
clarkgoble
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Oct 15, 2003, 04:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Spaztik:
I made up a list with screenshots of stuff that I don't like about Panther.

http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/

Check it out. There's gotta be at least one person that agrees with me.
The fast user icon, as others mentioned, is your login screen icon. How well it is scaled partially depends upon the photo. Probably your "eight ball" is a bad choice. I'll make a guess that somewhere there is a plist for controlling scaling. I suspect there will be hacks for this posted to OSX Hints before long.

Regarding brushed metal, which gets most of the attention, I'm mixed. But I've said my peace on that many times. I don't see it as problematic as many do.

Regarding dimming/coloring the icons when selected. I think that is a matter of taste, but most people seem to prefer the Panther way of things to the Sys9 way of things. I do.

The window widgets on the upper left I can see a problem with. As some mentioned way back in the 10.0 days, colors isn't that helpful. However they are, in my opinion, at least as clear as the old MacOS widgets. My only complaint is having them together. But I didn't expect that to change. Saying they ought to change for change sake isn't a terribly good argument in my opinion.

I agree with the application switcher complaint. Perhaps there aren't many of us, but I prefer the 10.2 way to the XP way of doing things. But this change seems to have gotten a lot of applause, so I think I am in the minority on this one.
     
nforcer
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Oct 15, 2003, 04:26 PM
 
Panther's darker pinstripes take a while to get used to. Aqua applications look as if they are set against a pure white/light grey background for a while.

The new tabs have broken a lot of application interfaces where tabs are used. Same with NSSplitView use.

The new "indented" close/minimize/maximize buttons look decent. But the new "Grey gradient when foremost, Aqua when in the background" titlebar is really bad, and I want to fix it already.

The Finder becoming Aqua when in "spatial" view, also looks crappy. Since the toolbar hide/show button position changes when this happens, simply leaving the mouse alone and clicking again does not always work. That is lack of polish right there. No moving targets!

The new font rendering takes some time to adjust to. And the fact that metal is cropping up everywhere without apparent reason is getting disturbing.

Some other small things... the fact that we do not have a way of drag and dropping a folder or file onto something to create a disk image of it, like we could with Disk Copy (which is now "integrated" into the system and into "Disk Utility") is mildly annoying. But maybe I'll get around to fixing that myself..
     
cybergoober
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Oct 15, 2003, 05:21 PM
 
Here's what I don't like about the Fast User Switching menu:



It uses the LONG user name. Our pal Apu here loses a lot of Menu Bar real-estate because he has a long name. I would love the option to have it display the short user names�
     
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Oct 15, 2003, 05:27 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
Are all Iberian members of MacNN forums trolls?
You have been reported.
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Oct 15, 2003, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Spaztik:
I made up a list with screenshots of stuff that I don't like about Panther.

http://homepage.mac.com/justspaztik/panthergui/

Check it out. There's gotta be at least one person that agrees with me.
I see Apple has lifted yet another feature from Windows in Panther: The window that explodes into your face when you do a cmd-tab. This is a bit over the top, as Apple had it down really well in 10.2 with the quiet non intrusive switching and the Windows functionality of always switching to the last used app first.
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Oct 15, 2003, 06:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
You have been reported.
SO HAVE YOU!

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nobitacu
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Oct 15, 2003, 08:16 PM
 
But I like bright eye candy colors.... not dark and dull....

Ming
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bracken
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Oct 15, 2003, 09:00 PM
 
Originally posted by nobitacu:
But I like bright eye candy colors.... not dark and dull....
I've used the Graphite appearance ever since it was selectable. I didn't like the clown colors. Panther is just too weird with Graphite now. Graphite Aqua looks like a half-breed of brushed metal (because there's so many brushed metal apps always present now).

I actually was one of the few to like brushed metal in Jaguar. And why don't brushed metal apps have sheets that match? And I really hate these menu lines between categories. KDE3 or GNOME provides a more consistent, sweeter look than this.

The whole thing is as if brushed metal man and Aqua woman were brother and sister and they got it on.
     
bracken
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Oct 15, 2003, 09:08 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
I see Apple has lifted yet another feature from Windows in Panther: The window that explodes into your face when you do a cmd-tab. This is a bit over the top, as Apple had it down really well in 10.2 with the quiet non intrusive switching and the Windows functionality of always switching to the last used app first.
I think more and more people are expecting it to behave like Windows and Apple is opening up to the fact that they have to start giving what people expect (a good and bad thing):
"I's can't move betwee' dings with keyboard."
Well, yes, you can.
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Ok, here's this.

I think it's huge to show off the sweet 128x128 icons. At least that's the only reason I can think of.
     
ryaxnb
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Oct 16, 2003, 01:24 AM
 
I like the Panther interface so well I use Aqua Extreme for a rather Panther-like interface.
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Oct 16, 2003, 01:39 AM
 
Originally posted by bracken:
I've used the Graphite appearance ever since it was selectable. I didn't like the clown colors.
3 tiny friggin' buttons that look like a traffic light and make the OS so much easier to use is clown coloured to you? Do you also have a Matrix screensaver?
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bracken
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Oct 16, 2003, 02:41 AM
 
Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
3 tiny friggin' buttons that look like a traffic light and make the OS so much easier to use is clown coloured to you? Do you also have a Matrix screensaver?
What the scrollbars and highlights are colorless to you?

Do I also have a Matrix screensaver? This coming from C-dorkPO.

Go "friggin'" someone else. Ignored.

     
Link
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Oct 16, 2003, 05:28 AM
 
Truth be told I actually like the bold lines in jaguar lol. It was a welcome return from beta testing panther for a while.

What will I say? oints: the widgets look like total crap. I mean not lousy, but CRAPPY to the point that I'd sit there and think "geez is that crap or what?"

It's like seeing the ugly widgets on inactive brushed metal windows.. they look out of place and weird and alladat.

My other gripe would be the finder.. Nice idea but they should have at least made an option for top toolbar or sidebar. To me, while it's amazingly nice in the open/save dialogs, it drives me crazy in the finder windows because it wastes far too much space!

Hrm anything else? Yeah. Standard aqua windows just look odd. The toolbar's gradient should be flipped so that it contrasts the window and not the other way around, as it clashes with the rounded top of the window. (which should not be the darkest part).

I think there should also be an option to make the icon size on the app switcher smaller, and one of the most annoying interface problems is the icon spacing is HUUUGE.. almost twice that of jaguar.. and there's no way to change this (windows has had options for such things for years!)

Scrollbars? They could be a little shinier, especially on graphite. :shrug: No real problem there, another thing would be making the progress bar in safari match everything else.. hrm
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Oct 16, 2003, 11:56 AM
 
"one of the most annoying interface problems is the icon spacing is HUUUGE.. almost twice that of jaguar.. and there's no way to change this"

What icon spacing are you referring to?
App switcher? (Jag didn't have this)
Dock?
Desktop?
Toolbars?

If the icon spacing on the desktop gets any larger, then that will be the only change in Panther that I am not looking forward to. It's already too spaced in my opinion.
     
sanity assassin
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Oct 16, 2003, 12:02 PM
 
Originally posted by Link:

Hrm anything else? Yeah. Standard aqua windows just look odd. The toolbar's gradient should be flipped so that it contrasts the window and not the other way around, as it clashes with the rounded top of the window. (which should not be the darkest part).
Yeah, that's how I feel too about the titlebars, too dark. I think the Panther Aqua look is smart, more polished, and is better on the eyes; but the titlebars are far too dark (I'l be changing them to a lighter colour). Apart from the colour scheme, which I love, there are quite a bit of strangeness going on with the widgets though.
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Sven G
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Oct 16, 2003, 12:14 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
I see Apple has lifted yet another feature from Windows in Panther [...]
... Not to mention that the new Finder sidebar (a very good feature, IMO: I'm not criticising it in any way, here) is, essentially, nothing but the OS X version of the XP Start Menu!

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clarkgoble
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Oct 16, 2003, 12:38 PM
 
The Finder left pane and the XP start menu have almost nothing in common. In general the left pane is akin to the left pane in XP's "Open" dialog, but with slightly different functionality (and more customizability) But given the way it interacts with column view I'm not sure you can compare it.
     
clebin
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Oct 16, 2003, 01:14 PM
 
Since Panther's interface is not a living, conscious being, I doubt it can be depressive.

Just depressing, which it is a bit, I agree.

It's certainly not as pretty as Jag. I'm happy to see the pin-stripes fade away, but the different bits of the theme don't seem to complement each other well somehow...

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