[Nonsuch]

It's pretty stupid.

Switcher's Remorse

[starman]

It started out fine, but turned into a lot of whining with no real solid foundation for her frustration except for that she was in a new world. I think the CD-RW issue is the only point I could relate to (damn things are too slow).

Mike

[mitchell_pgh]

Starman said it all... silly... I can't stand it when people use windows just because it's all they are willing to learn... So many people are just lazy...

[Krusty]

I wonder about what sort's of people are switching. I envision two types:
!) People who've used PCs forever and, once switched, secretly long for the familitarity of the windows ways that took them years to acquire. Basically, my stereotype of windows users in general ... they've learned A way of doing things and don't see the point in re learning the mac way.
2) People who lighlty use PCs (because they are so prevalent) but don't really know mucy about computers in general. They should find MacOS to be just dandy.

My only fear is that alot of the people in category 1 will in fact have Switcher's remorse and go back once they've realized that they WILL have to spend some time re-learning things and will (at least initially) have a harder time getting around in MacOS.

[scaught]

kinda predictable, really.

"how do we get a bunch of hits to our website, even if it is from a bunch of whiny macheads who get upset when their platform is even remotely poked at?"

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

I have to wonder if that is a for-real account, or just some Salon writer making a 'what-if'.

What the heck is so hard to figure out with a CD-RW anyway?

What's so hard about saving a document in Word format or Appleworks? Even yer average granny could *probably* figure out- if in doubt, save in the format that seems to be the latest, or better yet, was the version you used to use if you had a PC! Uhh, gee, version 4, 5 or latest? Word 97 or Word 2002? Hummm....those are toughies!

So iBooks don't have Page up or Page down keys? (My TiBook does). Or maybe it was the 'fn' key that was too hard to figure? A case of RTFM perhaps?

Macs don't have a Ctrl key? Since when?

error -7531? She's using OSX... does OSX even have numbered system error codes? (I guess so, I don't recall seeing any). In OS9 I never thought they went beyond 71xx.

How does one get fooked up by the Apple key? By itself, it does nothing. (Unlike the Windows key which can drive me batty bringing up the start bar if I hit it accidently).

Since when do iBooks ship with a mouse? The user *coff* writer *coff* complains that her forefinger is used to right clicking with a 'Windows mouse'. You don't generally click a trackpad button with your forefinger. The 'writer' perhaps forgot the story details of what Mac they were ranting about, and just slipped into a stock anti-Mac bias the writer had all along. If it were real, the person could have purchaced a third party mouse and ofcourse had her 2 buttons.(She knew enough to purchace a USB floppy drive).

Not that there aren't some things about OSX a 'switchwit' might not have remorse about, but at least come up with a realistic list.

Anyway, does the Mac world really need the lowest common denominator of users who would be motivated by those silly switch ads anyway?

[Zimphire]

The lame forced flash banner ad has to be the lamest idea of the year.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

sorry, Apple can't help nostalgia-maniacs

my experience is that you gets more error messages from windows than mac

he's pretty dumb...Apple is about digital lifestyle now, if he cant figure out a cdrw, then maybe your ass shouldn't have switched

[dillerX]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
sorry, Apple can't help nostalgia-maniacs

my experience is that you gets more error messages from windows than mac

he's pretty dumb...Apple is about digital lifestyle now, if he cant figure out a cdrw, then maybe your ass shouldn't have switched

amen.

[ringo]

Gee, an inexperienced computer user falls for the switch campaign and buys a mac, has problems, and is blamed by the Mac community for being "dumb," "lazy," and "The lowest common denominator of users."

Who the f**k do you think the switch ads are aimed at? Computer Science majors? Power wintel users?

Her problem wasn't "figuring out" the CD-R drive, it was frustration that it wasn't as fast or convenient as a floppy.

"RTFM???" Aren't macs supposed to be so simple that they don't need a manual? For the record, my iBook barely came with any printed documentation at all, so odds are she read the manual...too bad the manual is just a glossy pamphlet that doesn't mention the "fn" key.

She never says that she's using a mouse, just that she misses being able to right click (Something most Windows users do a lot, it's convenient and usually saves time). Of course, OSX is right-click friendly, but Apple keeps insisting that you don't NEED to...or rather they don't need to sell you an Apple mouse with this little convenience built in. with the iBook you can "right-click" by holding down a button while clicking the trackpad button, TOO BAD THE MANUAL NEVER BOTHERS TELLING THAT TO THE USER.

No wonder Apple can't build market share competing with windows, all the elite little mac-heads assume that anyone who doesn't instinctively "know" how to use a mac (Even when Apple's manuals SUCK), that they're a f**kwit and should give up on computing and join the dinosaurs in the tar pits.

Gee, maybe the Apple faithful could listen to criticism from someone who tried to switch and take something useful from it, learn how to appeal to wintel users, maybe find some things that Apple could improve upon if they really want people to switch...but then they would have to admit that their platform isn't gloriously perfect in the first place...OH NO! SAY IT AIN'T SO STEVE!

So instead the community sticks their fingers in their collective ears and sings na na na, you're a dope, we don't need you anyway.

Pathetic.

[daimoni]

.

[starman]

The CD-RW issue is pretty valid. Why isn't there a context menu item or a main menu item called "Erase CD-RW"? Weren't Macs supposed to be intuitive? Why does someone have to go into the Disk Utility application and cause a POTENTIAL disk erase if they accidentally choose the wrong drive????

Mike

[pliny]

Originally posted by daimoni:



I used to read Salon... uh, back in 1998-1999.

yeah it's become something like garbage. that article is awful.

[kovacs]

I doubt that he really switched.

Stupid people like that deserve to use a PC.

[khufuu]

Originally posted by Krusty:
I wonder about what sort's of people are switching. I envision two types:
!) People who've used PCs forever and, once switched, secretly long for the familitarity of the windows ways that took them years to acquire. Basically, my stereotype of windows users in general ... they've learned A way of doing things and don't see the point in re learning the mac way.
2) People who lighlty use PCs (because they are so prevalent) but don't really know mucy about computers in general. They should find MacOS to be just dandy.

My only fear is that alot of the people in category 1 will in fact have Switcher's remorse and go back once they've realized that they WILL have to spend some time re-learning things and will (at least initially) have a harder time getting around in MacOS.

1. Old-time Mac users are every bit as bad as PC users when it comes to this point. I've been reading these forums for quite some time now and it's plainly obvious. Just today in another forum, someone asked for a small app which would 'get rid' of the top menu bar from his desktop. Well....the poor guy was practially pummelled to death! (I think that all he really wanted was to have it 'auto-hide' like the dock can so that he wouldn't have to stare at it all day.)

2. I use computers alot. That's my field. I've been on my iBook for one month now. Love it's style, portability, and construction. On this point you are right. Most people use Windows because it's what they get bombarded with when they go into retail outlets. It's from these experiences (and the talk from their 'computer friends') that make them think that Macs are bad computers. Even my brother said this to me when I told him I was buying a Mac.

Do I have remorse? At times I must admit that I wish certain things worked more like my last machine. Being able to easily remap the keys on my keyboard is one of them. (Comments on this would be great BTW) Sometimes I wish my little iBook was speedier. Sometimes I wish that AppleWorks was 'nice' as MS Word. Then again... I have Unix to play with. I have a fairly fast Java implementation which actually looks good. I don't have to worry so much about viruses (virii).

All in all it's been a pretty good experience. A lot of re-learning but in a 'fun' kind of way for the most part. Sometimes a little frustrating...we are working with computers after all.

[oranjdisc]

The quality of Salon's content continues to errode, and I'm not just saying that because it's an anti-Mac article. The fact that Salon would print such a rambling, poorly written, barely readable "rant" is sad. That crap belongs on a weblog.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
So iBooks don't have Page up or Page down keys? (My TiBook does). Or maybe it was the 'fn' key that was too hard to figure? A case of RTFM perhaps?

Actually, I don't think the iBook lists this anywhere. Maybe in the Mac OS Help, but not in any manual. Apple manuals are thinner than a cracker, which is good in a way, bad in a way. I think making it simple so people can just start using it is a good thing... however, having Apple-sanctioned hints/tips (like what the fn key does, and how to access those little grey numbers on the keyboard - the ones the fn key unlocks) would make users much more adventurous I think.

[zigzag]

I agree with ringo. The whole point is for the average user to be able to switch painlessly, and Apple hasn't mastered that. Even as a longtime Mac user, I get frustrated with the lack of support on new machines. You shouldn't have to consult the manual to perform basic tasks, and when you do, the manuals are hopelessly inadequate (thus the "Missing Manual" series). Apple has an unacceptable degree of hubris when it comes to average/novice users. Apple needs to work harder to make switchers happy, not vice versa.

If the writer had complained about switching to a PC instead of a Mac, everyone here would be going "Oh yeah - how true!".

That said, there is always a danger with opinion pieces like this - the writer needs an angle ("I want to switch back!") in order to sell it, and puts cuteness above perspective (I can hear her thinking "Oh Astrid, you're so clever!"). It's the nature of the beast. Still, if she had a negative experience, Apple deserves to be taken to task for it, no less than Microsoft.

[pliny]

Originally posted by zigzag:
I agree with ringo. The whole point is for the average user to be able to switch painlessly, and Apple hasn't mastered that. Even as a longtime Mac user, I get frustrated with the lack of support on new machines. You shouldn't have to consult the manual to perform basic tasks, and when you do, the manuals are hopelessly inadequate (thus the "Missing Manual" series). Apple has an unacceptable degree of hubris when it comes to average/novice users. Apple needs to work harder to make switchers happy, not vice versa.

If the writer had complained about switching to a PC instead of a Mac, everyone here would be going "Oh yeah - how true!".

That said, there is always a danger with opinion pieces like this - the writer needs an angle ("I want to switch back!") in order to sell it, and puts cuteness above perspective (I can hear her thinking "Oh Astrid, you're so clever!"). It's the nature of the beast. Still, if she had a negative experience, Apple deserves to be taken to task for it, no less than Microsoft.

i think the wrier of the salon piece is being pummeled not for what she says or not about apple, etc but for just how plain bad the writing and the piece is. apple or pc, whatever--the article is just so dumb.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

The last thing I am is some blind Apple apologist. I happen to believe Apple doesn�t need propping up with bull$hit. Anything that�s good doesn�t need propping up with bull$hit, it can stand on it�s own merits. It�s just as openly apparent when Mac zealots bull$hit about PCs in order to make some pro-Mac argument, just as this writer in this case is bull$hitting about the Mac in order to down it.

Difference is, this isn�t just someone ranting on a message board, it�s a site purporting to be an actual �news� source, publishing a �letter� that�s really a biased writer�s hatchet piece.

And as a hatchet piece, it�s filled with inaccuracies. (I dunno, is it so hard for people to have accurate criticisms? I personally can�t stand when people bull$hit just to prop up a full-of-$hit position, be it Mac zealot or PC zealot or whoever.)

The writer does claim to miss a two-button mouse, and right-clicking with her forefinger- things that one wouldn�t be doing with an iBook right out of the box. I find that a bull$hit complaint to be making about an iBook, and not any obvious fault of Apple�s.

The writer doesn�t just state she can�t figure out how to use the pageup/down keyes, she lets on they aren�t even there. I don�t have an iBook in front of me right now, but if they ARE there, that�s just an all-out falsehood, not Apple�s fault that she can�t figure out how to use something. Having a limited keyboard set, even the use of a FN key to access certain keys is NOT the strict domain of the Mac. (Many PC laptops, especially micro-sized ones have them too). It�s fairly obvious, if you�re going to buy a small laptop, Mac or PC, you have to know it�s not going to have a full 101 keyboard layout and that some compromises of key placement is going to take place.

Where�s the Ctrl key? I dunno, I�d say to the writer open your freakin� eyes and find it! Again, that�s no valid complaint.

Complaining about error codes that aren�t there, is just as much disingenuous bullcrap.

Can�t burn a CD-RW? I�d say it�s a good chance the user couldn�t have figured it out on a PC either.

The day the MacOS becomes such a wuss�s tool that the user never has to figure out anything and rants to Apple if they do, then screw it. What will that be? Just a collection of Wizards? Things popping up at every turn and offering to do everything for you? I thought this was one thing people didn�t like about Microsoft OS�s? Now it�s on Apple to make the Mac platform so bullcrapped and watered down that a newbie user should never need to consult a manual or learn for themselves how to do **anything**?

Like I said, there may be things a switcher would have complaints about, but this writer didn�t list any valid ones.

[MacGorilla]

iBooks do have page up and page down keys, right next to the "enter" key on the bottom right of the keyboard. They're also arrow keys. The lettters are a LITTLE hard to read, but not that hard. Sheesh!

[zigzag]

Originally posted by pliny:


i think the wrier of the salon piece is being pummeled not for what she says or not about apple, etc but for just how plain bad the writing and the piece is. apple or pc, whatever--the article is just so dumb.

That may be true in your case, but it's certainly not true of most of the posts, which take the writer to task for not knowing better. The writer/switcher shouldn't have to know better - if Apple wants ordinary people to switch, it needs to make the transition as easy as possible.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Tell em'

http://salon.com/about/staff/index.html

[email protected]

(chief editor)

[zigzag]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Like I said, there may be things a switcher would have complaints about, but this writer didn�t list any valid ones.

Some of your points are valid, but I think you're still missing the larger point. Yes, there is a control key, and yes, there are page up/dn keys, so I acknowledge that she's an probably an idiot, but she also complains about the limitations of AppleWorks, incompatibility, reliability, lack of support, etc. I have no reason to believe that she simply concocted those things - I've experienced them at times, and I'm a Mac loyalist who is already familiar with Macs.

Apple has to convince ordinary people, most of whom are idiots like her, that it's easy and worthwhile to switch from Windows. If they run into problems printing and sharing files and so forth, telling them that they're merely stupid and that these problems are endemic to all computers isn't going to get the job done.

Oh well - ringo said it better than I can. I defer to his post.

Sorry, but that's not a comment on Apple being not easy enough to switch to. It says to me that she believed the crap that was fed to her saying that Macs were just like Windows and now she's getting a rude awakening. PC laptops have Fn keys too. And the iBook's page up/page dn keys are in the same place as they are on many PC notebooks.

Also are complaints about botched PowerPoint attachments. Why are they botched? Could it be she just didn't buy MS Office so can't open PowerPoint files? And why can't she communicate with PC using friends?

She hasn't given any indication that she attempted to look for answers and showed she was unwilling to learn a new way of doing things.

You could interchange Mac and PC and the article would say the same thing - nothing.

I predict in a few months this person will be much happier, after she learns a little bit and realized that MacOS is not Windows.