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Aron Peterson · Mar 13, 2007, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by xe0

Unless your fingers are abnormally unclean, I doubt that would be a problem.

All skin produces oils that after a few hours of using a touchscreen will be apparent. Apple said they developed a special screen for the iPhone but when Jobs was demoing it the screen was covered in fingerprints.

Also, large multitouch screens have been developed (see the demos by Jefferson Han) but they are embedded in desks, not upright monitors because reaching out in front of you to manipulate objects on a screen hours at a time isn't good for your shoulder joints.

leblancchris · Mar 13, 2007, 10:42 AM

ahhhh when is this coming? im going to buy an iMac, but i think i should wait and see if something new comes out...i know if i go buy now it will come out in a week or 2...but if i wait...it wont come out until june.

leblancchris · Mar 14, 2007, 03:01 PM

ok am i stupid to go and buy an imac right now with this so close?
will apple give me a free upgrade if i've bought within a couple monthes of the release?

TETENAL · Mar 14, 2007, 03:22 PM

No free update unless you purchased it after the day of release has been announced (which is not yet the case).

leblancchris · Mar 14, 2007, 03:27 PM

should i wait?

Gee4orce · Mar 14, 2007, 03:53 PM

You tell us ! If you don't absolutely need a new computer right now, it's always better to wait because you'll always get more for your money if you wait. However, that's offset by the loss of earnings or productivity you'll suffer until you get the new machine.

Besides, second hand Macs hold their value superbly well - so even if something new comes out soon you could sell the one you bought and upgrade again.

xe0 · Mar 15, 2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

large multitouch screens have been developed (see the demos by Jefferson Han) but they are embedded in desks, not upright monitors because reaching out in front of you to manipulate objects on a screen hours at a time isn't good for your shoulder joints.

This is correct Aron.

Im not quite sure why some people are assuming they would need to reach across their desk in order to use a multi touch system?

Its kind of a no brainer to imagine that in order for multi touch to come to market, it would necessitate a new form factor.
Something akin to the Cintiq, like this.

Chuckit · Mar 15, 2007, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by xe0

This is correct Aron.

Im not quite sure why some people are assuming they would need to reach across their desk in order to use a multi touch system?

Its kind of a no brainer to imagine that in order for multi touch to come to market, it would necessitate a new form factor.
Something akin to the Cintiq, like this.

Awkward viewing angle, isn't it? You're trading shoulder pain for neck pain.

Peter · Mar 16, 2007, 06:47 AM

hardly, i think its pretty natural to look down when sitting/standing...

onlyone-jc · Mar 16, 2007, 07:09 AM

[Link]

analogue SPRINKLES · 11:41 PM

I am still hoping 10.5 will have an OS as fluid as the iPhones.

For example if I am in iPhoto and select a couple photos and choose "email" I want the screen to darken around the selected photos, the pictures stay in the front while mail is brought forward and then placed in a new message.

It is a much nicer and informative way of doing it over the current method.

hldan · Mar 20, 2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I am still hoping 10.5 will have an OS as fluid as the iPhones.

For example if I am in iPhoto and select a couple photos and choose "email" I want the screen to darken around the selected phones, the pictures stay in the front while mail is brought forward and then placed in a new message.

It is a much nicer and informative way of doing it over the current method.

Selected Phones? Did you mean selected photos? You had me until that part. If I understood you correctly the concept would be kool!

TETENAL · Mar 20, 2007, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

hardly, i think its pretty natural to look down when sitting/standing...

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 20, 2007, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by hldan

Selected Phones? Did you mean selected photos?

Yes

onlyone-jc · Mar 23, 2007, 08:35 AM

[Link]

If this is true, why can't they release Leopard as soon as possible for those that are waiting for it, and then merely release an update for Boot Camp later on in the year, when it's ready?

onlyone-jc.

xe0 · Mar 23, 2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by onlyone-jc

[Link]

If this is true, why can't they release Leopard as soon as possible for those that are waiting for it, and then merely release an update for Boot Camp later on in the year, when it's ready?

onlyone-jc.

I think this Leopard delay rumor is unfounded.
We'll have to wait and see.

Chuckit · Mar 23, 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by onlyone-jc

[Link]

If this is true, why can't they release Leopard as soon as possible for those that are waiting for it, and then merely release an update for Boot Camp later on in the year, when it's ready?

onlyone-jc.

Thus proving that these "reports" are basically "wild-ass guesses." It's early! It's late! It's early! It's on-time! It's early! It's late!

TETENAL · Mar 23, 2007, 11:11 AM

Doesn't boot camp already support Vista? I thought people were running Vista on Macs already. In fact, didn't the Microsoft head of Norway demoed Vista on an iMac on television?

Chuckit · Mar 23, 2007, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Doesn't boot camp already support Vista? I thought people were running Vista on Macs already. In fact, didn't the Microsoft head of Norway demoed Vista on an iMac on television?

It basically works, yeah. Can't imagine why it would take them an additional half a year to work out any quirks.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 23, 2007, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It basically works, yeah. Can't imagine why it would take them an additional half a year to work out any quirks.

Well look how long it is taking Apple to get iTunes to work properly with Vista even though it has been out for ages to the public let alone developer builds.

Eug · Mar 23, 2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I am still hoping 10.5 will have an OS as fluid as the iPhones.

OS X already is as fluid... if you test it on fast equipment in very specific tightly controlled conditions like the iPhone was.

Originally Posted by leblancchris

ahhhh when is this coming? im going to buy an iMac, but i think i should wait and see if something new comes out...i know if i go buy now it will come out in a week or 2...but if i wait...it wont come out until june.

Originally Posted by leblancchris

ok am i stupid to go and buy an imac right now with this so close?
will apple give me a free upgrade if i've bought within a couple monthes of the release?

Originally Posted by leblancchris

should i wait?

Up to you, but if you can wait, you may as well wait. A new iMac version with Leopard and iLife '07 installed is a pretty good incentive to wait IMO. Yeah, it may not be until May or early June (with maybe a few weeks shipping delay on top of that), but hey...

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 23, 2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

OS X already is as fluid... if you test it on fast equipment in very specific tightly controlled conditions like the iPhone was.

Pff, no it isn't. swiching between apps, saving, closing a window, moving files etc. gives little or no indication of what is actually happening. The Genie effect and expose is fluid but that is about it.

Fluid doesn't mean "Fast".

Feynman · Mar 23, 2007, 04:44 PM

I'm starting to think we will see some nice CoreAnimation goodies in the Finder. Watching over the Mac OS State of the Union session in iTunes for WWDC 2006, it is almost all to easy to code CoreAnimation. They have Quartz in the Finder so why not CoreAnimation? At this point though, I do not think we are going to see a new interface. Maybe a new Cocoa Finder but not much will be new except the CoreAnimation goodies.

Let's hope I'm wrong

brokenjago · Mar 24, 2007, 01:04 AM

The finder is currently Carbon?

Simon · Mar 24, 2007, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

The finder is currently Carbon?

Yes.

And no, that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Switching to Cocoa alone would not solve a single one of the current Finder bugs.

brokenjago · Mar 24, 2007, 05:15 AM

I didn't say it was bad.

I just find that odd. Apple has pimped Cocoa so aggressively to developers as the one way to develop "true" Mac OS X applications, but they're not using it for the application that sits at the very core of the user experience?

Interesting.

I too, am annoyed by people who think that just because it's carbon, it sucks. IIRC, iTunes is a Carbon app to keep it easy to port to Windows.

Feynman · 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I didn't say it was bad.

I just find that odd. Apple has pimped Cocoa so aggressively to developers as the one way to develop "true" Mac OS X applications, but they're not using it for the application that sits at the very core of the user experience?

Interesting.

I too, am annoyed by people who think that just because it's carbon, it sucks. IIRC, iTunes is a Carbon app to keep it easy to port to Windows.

I never said it sucks just because it's Carbon but a Cocoa Finder could take advantage of so many of the Cocoa APIs. And personally I get more Spinning Beach Balls on Carbon apps then Cocoa so it would be interesting if I would still get as many.

Wouldn't it be easier to port apps to Windows if apps were Cocoa now due to the Intel processor at heart? I thought I read some where that porting Windows apps to Cocoa was not as much work as it use to be.

TheoCryst · Mar 24, 2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Feynman

Wouldn't it be easier to port apps to Windows if apps were Cocoa now due to the Intel processor at heart? I thought I read some where that porting Windows apps to Cocoa was not as much work as it use to be.

Carbon is much easier to port to Windows because it is usually accessed via C and C++, a pair of very portable languages. Meanwhile, Cocoa apps are primarily written in Objective-C, which is a fine language but pretty much exclusive to OS X. I could be wrong, however.

TETENAL · Mar 24, 2007, 02:41 PM

The processor architecture doesn't really matter much since practically all programs are written in high level languages.

CharlesS · Mar 24, 2007, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Feynman

I never said it sucks just because it's Carbon but a Cocoa Finder could take advantage of so many of the Cocoa APIs. And personally I get more Spinning Beach Balls on Carbon apps then Cocoa so it would be interesting if I would still get as many.

It's just as easy to make a Cocoa app beachball as a Carbon app.

Sure, with some badly ported Carbon apps the app will hang when the menus are down, but that's due to using out-of-date APIs, not being Carbon.

Chris Grande · Mar 24, 2007, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I just find that odd. Apple has pimped Cocoa so aggressively to developers as the one way to develop "true" Mac OS X applications, but they're not using it for the application that sits at the very core of the user experience?.

It was mostly Apple "eating their own dog food" when Carbon was first being introduced they had to show that it was worthy of being used and that Apple was going to support. The easiest way to show that was to build a app on top of it, and what better way to show how you were serious then to build the new Finder on it. I think it was WWDC 1999 when steve revealed that. Also the app they traditionally used as a demo of Cocoa was Mail.

And like everyone is saying re-building the Finder using Cocoa won't do much of anything to fix all its problems, it could actually create more. The only thing I want them to fix is the poor way it deals with volumes that are hard to read or volumes that go offline. Sticking a dirty CD in a Mac can cause the Finder to go to **** really fast - this also happens on Windows so it just be a hard problem to try to deal with.

brokenjago · Mar 24, 2007, 07:36 PM

Yeah, I never thought Cocoa would magically make all the Finder's problems disappear, but it would provide access to impressive APIs, specifically Core Animation, which, in my opinion, would go a long way to making the Finder a snazzier app.

And while they're at it, they can fix all those annoying problems with it too!

Chuckit · Mar 24, 2007, 07:45 PM

I could be wrong, but I believe Core Animation works with Carbon HIView-based apps as well.

onlyone-jc · Mar 24, 2007, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by onlyone-jc

[Link]

If this is true, why can't they release Leopard as soon as possible for those that are waiting for it, and then merely release an update for Boot Camp later on in the year, when it's ready?

onlyone-jc.

[Link]

Simon · Mar 25, 2007, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Yeah, I never thought Cocoa would magically make all the Finder's problems disappear, but it would provide access to impressive APIs, specifically Core Animation, which, in my opinion, would go a long way to making the Finder a snazzier app.

And while they're at it, they can fix all those annoying problems with it too!

I see what you're getting at, but personally I'd rather have them invest developer resources into fixing Finder bugs than porting the Finder to another architecture. Regardless of the advantages Cocoa may offer, porting an app like the Finder from Carbon to Cocoa is quite a big effort. And while the port offers numerous possibilities to incorporate new bugs, it also takes a lot of time that otherwise might be used to iron out known Finder issues (for example a more graceful handling of non-repsonding remote/removable volumes).

Big Mac · Mar 25, 2007, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker[/quote

Nice, I like all those changes. Have been wanting spring loaded folder in the dock for ages!

That's wonderful! What a long time in coming. Just last night I noticed that the damn Start menu in XP is spring loaded (although Explorer isn't). If M$ could figure out how to steal it, you'd think Apple would be able to implement it in the Dock.

Eug · Mar 25, 2007, 11:59 AM

Is Leopard Delayed? Nope, not according to Apple

"Just spoke with Apple who confirmed the reports are wrong and Leopard is still scheduled to ship in this spring as they previously announced."

Eug · Mar 26, 2007, 10:23 AM

Another guy reports:

"Our sources indicate that Apple's latest beta build has made noticeable improvements in stability and functionality from previous builds and that Apple is likely one or two upcoming builds away from reaching 'final candidate' stage to be released for manufacturing."

I look forward to a May release date for Leopard 10.5.

Chuckit · Mar 26, 2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Another guy reports:

I look forward to a May release date for Leopard 10.5.

Hey, some guy on the Internet says Leopard is due in two months. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, everywhere for the past six months.

Eug · Mar 26, 2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Hey, some guy on the Internet says Leopard is due in two months. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, everywhere for the past six months.

One of the guys says he actually spoke with Apple directly, who confirmed that the release is still scheduled for spring.

kick52 · Mar 26, 2007, 12:14 PM

this is probably just a mistake, but look at the little scroll-bar-type-thingy (which i have forgoten the name of) which specifies how long it is inactive before to start the screensaver.

look at the bar, it is grey. perhaps a part of a new ui got caught in with the seed?

probably not.

TETENAL · Mar 26, 2007, 01:16 PM

The slider? Its slot is grey, yes, but it looks exactly like it does now in Tiger as far as I can tell.

Chuckit · Mar 26, 2007, 01:38 PM

Yeah, the slider is already grey.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 26, 2007, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

One of the guys says he actually spoke with Apple directly, who confirmed that the release is still scheduled for spring.

isn't that what they all say though? Personally I don't trust anything I read about future product releases from Apple as honestly none of them have shown to be very accurate. Including, manufacturers, distributers, employees, analysts etc.

Chuckit · Mar 26, 2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

One of the guys says he actually spoke with Apple directly, who confirmed that the release is still scheduled for spring.

Yeah, but we're not even two weeks into spring, and as John Gruber pointed out (echoing what I've heard from everyone but that one "analyst"), anybody who thinks the latest build is close to GM quality is smoking something.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

isn't that what they all say though? Personally I don't trust anything I read about future product releases from Apple as honestly none of them have shown to be very accurate. Including, manufacturers, distributers, employees, analysts etc.

Name two release dates Apple has missed in the past 10 years. I can't think of them.

Eug · Mar 26, 2007, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yeah, but we're not even two weeks into spring, and as John Gruber pointed out (echoing what I've heard from everyone but that one "analyst"), anybody who thinks the latest build is close to GM quality is smoking something.

Well, that's exactly what people said in March for the 2005 Tiger release, and yet it launched in April.

I'm fully expecting a May Leopard release (along with a new iMac).

brokenjago · Mar 27, 2007, 12:13 AM

Name two release dates Apple has missed in the past 10 years. I can't think of them.

Apple TV and Leopard.

Steve jobs said that Leopard would be ready to ship at about the same time as Vista. 5 months later is not "about the same time."

besson3c · Mar 27, 2007, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Name two release dates Apple has missed in the past 10 years. I can't think of them.

OS X, several times

JLL · Mar 27, 2007, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Name two release dates Apple has missed in the past 10 years. I can't think of them.

AFAIK they haven't missed a single of the announced release dates

Chuckit · 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Apple TV and Leopard.

Steve jobs said that Leopard would be ready to ship at about the same time as Vista. 5 months later is not "about the same time."

On the scale of time that Vista has been in development, less than half a year is about the same time. I don't think Vista's exact release date had even been announced at the time. Steve said spring 2007 — when they miss that, then you can start complaining.

Originally Posted by besson3c

OS X, several times

I don't recall this, and Google fails to turn up anything relevant.