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Scientology: Building a Mystery
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 10, 2015, 11:12 PM
 
I had a rare opportunity so I jumped on it, and just came back from a 3 hour long conversation with a leader within Scientology (not Cruise, unfortunately ); gloves off, no holds barred, no bullshit. And, even though I won't join, because they're way too controlling and I already understand the mechanics they use (which are evident to anyone who's studied Jung and Western occultism in depth), they aren't quite the evil that most think they are. It's essentially what I would classify as an inorganic, archetype-based, technologically-themed, postmodern mystery religion. If Jedis were actually a thing, Scientology would be their morally ambiguous cousin.

I have a lot to digest WRT the discussion, but if you have any questions about them feel free to fire those off and I'll try to answer them. I couldn't take a recording device or anything to write notes with, but I have a knack for memorizing conversations, so I'm currently writing it all down for my memoirs and posterity.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2015, 03:42 AM
 
Sea Org seems like indentured servitude with a brainwash chaser.

How Scientology treats you appears based on what you can do for them.

Miscavige seems somewhere between "off" and "murderer".
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2015, 06:11 AM
 
Were you being recruited?
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 11, 2015, 11:58 AM
 
Yes, though they weren't aware that I'd been through more advanced esoteric systems. Now that they are they're probably not as interested in me. When you scratch the surface you find they're a good deal like the OTO, and to a lesser degree the Golden Dawn, BOTA, and even the Mormons, though the last 3 have moral standards (very stringent moral standards, in the case of the Mormons). This is something I've always thought was likely, but now I'm positive.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 13, 2015, 08:37 AM
 
Did they comment on Sea Org?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 13, 2015, 01:55 PM
 
Aren't they quite strongly suspected of murdering ex-members?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Sep 15, 2015, 08:03 AM
 
Good God, man. Don't leave us hanging!
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 15, 2015, 12:02 PM
 
I've still been thinking about the whole convo, it was very fascinating, at least from my perspective as a student of religion.

They did mention higher tier organizations, Sea Org isn't the only one, it's largely for those who want to fully disconnect and live a "cloistered" lifestyle. Mostly we discussed their philosophy, goals, and practices. Murder never came up during the conversation.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 15, 2015, 12:14 PM
 
I get hung up on the worldly stuff, like the indentured servitude of children Sea Org is alleged to engage in.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 17, 2015, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I get hung up on the worldly stuff, like the indentured servitude of children Sea Org is alleged to engage in.
...
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Good God, man. Don't leave us hanging!
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 17, 2015, 05:57 PM
 
What? We didn't talk about Sea Org slavery, if the subject had come up I'm sure the talk would have abruptly ended, and I was too curious about other things.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 17, 2015, 07:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
What? We didn't talk about Sea Org slavery, if the subject had come up I'm sure the talk would have abruptly ended, and I was too curious about other things.
I understand now what you meant by "no holds barred", but without the context assumed it meant the discussion treaded into the same unsavory territory I was trying to lead you.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 18, 2015, 04:44 AM
 
I wouldn't expect them to admit to murder regardless of how "no holds barred" your chat was supposed to be.

Maybe they only murder the poor people who leave?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 18, 2015, 10:07 AM
 
Going by the discussion, to me they didn't seem to be any more "cultish" than JWs or Mormons, and maybe a little less than the former.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 18, 2015, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I wouldn't expect them to admit to murder regardless of how "no holds barred" your chat was supposed to be.

Maybe they only murder the poor people who leave?
No, but assuming it wasn't murder, then you potentially have an explanation of what went down.

It's like Ted Kennedy. There's inside dirt on what went down with Mary Jo Kopechne, and since it was an accident, it's not too hard to pry it out of those who know.
     
subego
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Sep 18, 2015, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Going by the discussion, to me they didn't seem to be any more "cultish" than JWs or Mormons, and maybe a little less than the former.
In a general sense, how are you defining "cultish"?
     
subego
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Sep 18, 2015, 02:58 PM
 
"I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader."
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 18, 2015, 04:59 PM
 
There's the generic definition of cult wherein all religions are cults, then there's the more modern vernacular, ie. the Peoples Temple, Heaven's Gate, and the Hare Krishna. I was talking about the latter. I like the Mormons, they're basically a mix of Christianity and Freemasonry, and you can leave, if you choose, without too much fuss. The JWs are a little more fanatical and harder to leave, they're just about where I draw the line in thinking about a religion as a cult (in the derogatory sense). Scientology is... a few steps beyond that.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 19, 2015, 11:46 AM
 
Cutting off contact for former members is cultish.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Sep 19, 2015, 11:55 AM
 
Indeed. If a belief system requires you to disconnect from established relationships, run. Run like hell.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 19, 2015, 07:17 PM
 
I'm actually willing to reserve judgement on things like allegations of murder and slavery without hearing more sides to the story, so whatever derogatory adjective I apply to them won't be on that account.

The aforementioned steps involved in extricating yourself is the big beef I have with them, and while this isn't a guarantee, those steps usually indicate spiritual advancement taking a back seat to some form of swindle. The more steps, the more it's about the swindle.

So while not exactly evil, as spiritual advancement goes, I'm inclined to think it's garbage.

I definitely wouldn't say that about the Mormons or JWs.
     
   
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