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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > MacBook excessive HEAT

MacBook excessive HEAT
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voken
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Mar 7, 2006, 06:02 PM
 
I got my 1.83GHz MacBook Pro just 3 days back and I can say with a bare 30 minutes of usage its getting pretty HOT....Its basically the bottom left hand side of the laptop. The top shell is completely cool and the right side part of the laptop is also OK.
I am not even putting this laptop under stress. All I am doing is just internet browisng.

Since its my first laptop, I can't really say if its the case with every laptop or if its with every MacBook Pro alone or just MINE !!!! Do I have to change any battery life settings on this one or is it the case with every MacBook Pro ? Is it because of its compact design & the aluminium (???) shell ?
     
pete
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Mar 7, 2006, 06:12 PM
 
Unfortunately, it's normal for Apple laptops, and many others too, to get very hot underneath. It's been like that with almost every generation of G3 and G4 powerbooks and now also with the macbook pro apparently.

Nothing to worry about, but it of course it would be better if they were cool.
( Last edited by pete; Mar 7, 2006 at 07:07 PM. )
     
mduell
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Mar 7, 2006, 06:47 PM
 
The aluminum case acts as a giant heatsink, spreading the heat from the CPU/chipset/GPU/CCFL out all over the bottom surface of the laptop.
I prefer laptops which have plastic cases, heatpipes, and vents in the back.
     
yticolev
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Mar 7, 2006, 08:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by voken
I got my 1.83GHz MacBook Pro just 3 days back and I can say with a bare 30 minutes of usage its getting pretty HOT....Its basically the bottom left hand side of the laptop. The top shell is completely cool and the right side part of the laptop is also OK.
I am not even putting this laptop under stress. All I am doing is just internet browisng.

Since its my first laptop, I can't really say if its the case with every laptop or if its with every MacBook Pro alone or just MINE !!!! Do I have to change any battery life settings on this one or is it the case with every MacBook Pro ? Is it because of its compact design & the aluminium (???) shell ?
Spotlight may be indexing your drive for a while. That might be the source of excess heat. Try turning it off or at least looking to see what is using CPU cycles.
     
photoeditor
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Mar 7, 2006, 09:42 PM
 
I'm pretty sure from a photograph I saw posted that there is a direct connection via thermal paste from at least one of the major chips -- maybe the processor itself -- to the bottom of the case on the MacBook,. This contrasts with the approach in the TiBook and AluBook G4 portables of having a large spreading heat sink with a lot of piping. The MacBook is obviously too thin inside to fit all this heat sinking and piping that you see on the TiBook and AluBook G4.

To me this direct use of the case itself makes for a lot of peace of mind in terms of the ultimate durability of the components as it means it is actually getting thermal energy directly out of the case rather than simply redistributing it in hope the fans will get the rest, but yes, it does kind of ruin it as a "lap" top.
     
n8236
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Mar 7, 2006, 09:55 PM
 
I had a Pentium3 500mhz before and it gets hot. For the most part, I think people will just have to deal with it because as computers get faster, it's only normal they get hotter.
     
Morn
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Mar 8, 2006, 06:24 AM
 
The neat part about the macbook is that the hottest parts of it are the parts that you touch the least. That is unless you're resting the laptop on your legs. The power inverter and the CPU seem to make the most heat from where the heat is on the laptop. The HD area, which is on the left inbetween the end of the laptop and the battery is surprisely cool.
     
pete
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Mar 8, 2006, 08:19 AM
 
I had a thinkpad T40 1.6ghz centrino and it got warm, but never as hot as my powerbook G4 1.67.
     
Yawn
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Mar 8, 2006, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by pete
I had a thinkpad T40 1.6ghz centrino and it got warm, but never as hot as my powerbook G4 1.67.
Plastic case. The Al shell of the MBP is a heat sink in itself. The upside is that that helps the MBP's guts stay cooler. A plastic shell might be cooler to touch, but it keeps the heat inside where the components have to sustain the heat.
     
pete
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Mar 8, 2006, 10:13 AM
 
I'm sure that's the case, but the IBM also comes with a three year warranty and has been proven to be incredibly reliable hardware wise so it doesn't seem that the internals are being damage by the heat. Of course Apple is using a different processor that seems to run hotter than the centrino.
     
Heavy
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Mar 8, 2006, 01:44 PM
 
Are they made of aluminum? Is that better than titanium? Titanium wouldn't get as hot, I'd think. But maybe it's good for the heat to disperse through something. Anyone know why aluminum is chosen over titanium?
     
atc ben
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Mar 8, 2006, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Heavy
Anyone know why aluminum is chosen over titanium?
I'd have to say cost.
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bloodline
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Mar 8, 2006, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by atc ben
I'd have to say cost.
Aluminium/Magnesium alloy is vastly superior than Titanium for the shell of a Laptop... if you are building a Warplane, then Titanium has the edge as it can take higher temperatures and is more resistant to gun fire... but you can't really mould Titanium into shapes like you can with an Aluminium/Magnesium alloy.
     
yticolev
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Mar 9, 2006, 11:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by bloodline
Aluminium/Magnesium alloy is vastly superior than Titanium for the shell of a Laptop... if you are building a Warplane, then Titanium has the edge as it can take higher temperatures and is more resistant to gun fire... but you can't really mould Titanium into shapes like you can with an Aluminium/Magnesium alloy.
Every material has advantages and disadvantages. Titanium is stronger and stiffer for a given size, aluminum is stiffer for a given weight. For laptops, aluminum is not the best choice in my opinion. It does have excellent heat sink capabilities (which is why so many pots and pans are aluminum), which has pluses for the processor and negatives for user comfort. Aluminum cased laptops have to be larger than titanium (and probably plastic as well) as for flat shapes you need more depth for strength (dent resistance and stiffness). That is why they are bigger than the titanium laptops they replaced (but not appreciably heavier).

Neither one has an advantage that I can think of for forming ("moulding") the shapes found in laptops. And neither are as good as plastics and fiber for creating strong, light laptops. (Although tubular structures, looking at different material use in bicycle design is instructive). Both were just style and marketing decisions by Apple. Other companies typically do not create laptops with these exotic designs because of cost and appropriateness to the design application. Apple can get away with it because their margin is higher, and they have an intrinsic need to separate themselves from the competition.

But mostly, it comes down to Steve's sense of style and esthetics. Which has proven to be amazingly successful!
     
aristotles
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Mar 10, 2006, 12:23 AM
 
Check your CPU usage via the activity monitor. Chances are the computer is indexing. Let it index for a while. It should cool down.
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Morn
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Mar 10, 2006, 01:29 AM
 
Carbon fibre would be better I think. Metals can be dented or scratched rather easily.
     
thunderous_funker
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Mar 10, 2006, 03:45 AM
 
Laptop heat can also be a function of what the laptop is sitting on. For example, some desks have laminate tops that heat up quickly and actually cause your laptop to retain a lot of heat. Friend of mine was having issues with an iBook where he complained that "out of the blue" his fan was working overtime and the machine was getting very warm.

I went over and sure enough, its his new desk. Shiny black laminate top. Put the laptop on any other surface, fan almost never comes on. Leave laptop on new desk, fan kicks in after just a couple of minutes.

Just something to be aware of.
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Super Mario
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Mar 10, 2006, 09:02 AM
 
We reviewed the MacBook Pro on our site. We found that the heat is only disturbing to some who use a laptop literally on their lap. It's not much hotter than the 12" PowerBook which runs pretty cool compared to other laptops on the market. Using a MacBook Pro on a desk and if you're a touch typist the machine is a dream.
     
Heavy
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Mar 10, 2006, 10:43 AM
 
Do all the MBP's have the heat problem? or is it the ones with a faster HD or the fastest processor? In the reveiws I read, there wasn't any mention of the heat being abnormal.
     
dkarjadi
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Mar 10, 2006, 12:55 PM
 
I'm having the same experience.... so you're not alone...
I just bought a USB fan... we'll see if this will help...

thing is when you're mobile with no power source around... you're trying to save power as much as possible... (like in an airplane... I have not yet found anyone makes an airline adapter for MBP yet) I have a targus for my old pismo... but they have not made the tip for MBP yet... hopepully soon
     
explosivpotato
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Mar 10, 2006, 04:54 PM
 
I really dont see the heat being such a huge problem. My pb g4 gets astoundingly hot on late night wc3 lan parties, as in having it on my (covered) legs causes severe discomfort and nasty red marks. Strangely, though, my processor temperature goes down as the case gets hotter. I guess thats just the fans kicking all the heat out onto my legs.

anyway, we are using high-performance machines, and the price we pay is extra heat.
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mikemako
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Mar 10, 2006, 06:05 PM
 
I have the 2.0GHz MacBook Pro. My last laptop was an 800MHz G3 iBook. The MacBook Pro does get warmer than the iBook, but not by much. It certainly has never gotten too hot for me to place my hand on the bottom and leave it there. I've had it for a little over a week and have used it for Photoshop, iPhoto, iTunes, and writing papers in Word.

It gets warmest when the battery is charging and it quite tollerable as a "lap"top if running off battery. For me.
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tictactoe
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Mar 10, 2006, 08:07 PM
 
I was playing an HD video on a MBP for ~10 minutes and it got RIDICULOUSLY hot underneath...much hotter than my old 1.5ghz 15" G4 PB ever got. The entire back area underneath where the vent is was hot to the point that holding your finger there for more than a moment caused extreme discomfort. I couldn't imagine having something that hot on my lap.
     
mikemako
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Mar 11, 2006, 12:02 AM
 
Do you think it is possible that some of these computers are actually getting hotter than others, or is it just a difference of opinion as to what is considered HOT?
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aristotles
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Mar 11, 2006, 12:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by mikemako
Do you think it is possible that some of these computers are actually getting hotter than others, or is it just a difference of opinion as to what is considered HOT?
It's probably the latter.
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John123
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Mar 11, 2006, 01:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
It's probably the latter.
Nah, I disagree. I'm not bitching, but it's the hottest I've used. On the G4 laptop side, I've owned a 550, a 667 (DVI), a 1Ghz TiBook, a 1.5Ghz, and a 1.67Ghz. This one is downright crisp. I use it in bed some, which is a terrible place to use a laptop...but it's still more than toasty.
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DCapple
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Mar 11, 2006, 01:33 AM
 
im not familiar with G4 book...dont they have fan inside??? (just askin dont get mad..please...)
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John123
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Mar 11, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by DCapple
im not familiar with G4 book...dont they have fan inside??? (just askin dont get mad..please...)
They do. The earlier versions had very loud fans, in fact. A lot of people complained about that, saying it was annoying and bad for pro audio work. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
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Super Mario
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Mar 11, 2006, 04:50 AM
 
400 and 550Mhz PowerBook were way hotter than MacBook Pro.
     
pete
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Mar 11, 2006, 07:27 AM
 
The question is whether Apple can do anything about? I think it really has become an issuse, especially for thos of us who type and write a lot and those who actually need to use these things on our laps. What can be done? What are Apple's options?
     
thunderous_funker
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by pete
The question is whether Apple can do anything about? I think it really has become an issuse, especially for thos of us who type and write a lot and those who actually need to use these things on our laps. What can be done? What are Apple's options?
The chips aren't going to get cooler so the only thing Apple can do is change the thermal envelope of the enclosure:

1) make it bigger
2) put bigger or more fans in it
3) liquid cool it

Most of those have pretty serious drawbacks.

It was one of the silver linings of the old days of slow laptops. IMO, laptops haven't been very lap friendly for a long time.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
photoeditor
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:12 AM
 
There seems to me, looking around the threads, to have been some variation with fan performance on MacBooks. If the fans are slow to power up, that will inevitably cause trouble. There are two fans in the MacBook, both of them very large in diameter compared to previous Apple laptops and therefore presumably quieter; one on the left near the power input and one to the right. Note that neither fan is actually directly on a major chip; there are cutouts in the main logic board for the right hand fan and in the DC board for the left hand one for the fans to fit.

Also, as I said earlier, the processor is thermal-pasted directly to the bottom side case with no heat sink. So, as it turns out, are the main controller and the video chip. These three items are across the back center of the computer directly behind the RAM slot, and between them occupy about the same width as the width of the RAM and battery covers (a little wider than the slot itself). If you do use this thing on your lap, space your legs apart -- that's all I can say. The back center bottom is very obviously in need of ventilation.

Clearly, Apple achieved the greater thinness of this computer by ditching the internal heat sink and using the bottom case itself as the heat sink, turning the logic board upside down compared to previous versions which had the heat sink on top. I suspect this is going to add up to a cooler top and a hotter bottom than the aluminum Powerbooks; the AluBooks were already cooler on top and hotter on the bottom than the iBook and this just makes that distinction more extreme.

The aluminum on the MacBook and the AluBook G4 is an exoskeleton, and provides the computer's structural strength. In contrast, the titanium covers up a carbon-fiber chassis on the TiBook, hence the TiBook's flex when you pick it up with one hand.
     
yticolev
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Mar 11, 2006, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by photoeditor
The aluminum on the MacBook and the AluBook G4 is an exoskeleton, and provides the computer's structural strength. In contrast, the titanium covers up a carbon-fiber chassis on the TiBook, hence the TiBook's flex when you pick it up with one hand.
The TiBook had carbon fiber spacers, kind of a stretch to call them a chassis even though components were attached to them. If is was really a carbon fiber frame with titanium skin, it would have been stiffer. The trade offs of various materials meant Apple could create a stiffer laptop with Aluminum with a lower weight than they could with titanium, but with a thicker shell (and overall size). I'm sure they did this in large part due to complaints about the TiBook flexibility, particularly the screen scared some.

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker
The chips aren't going to get cooler so the only thing Apple can do is change the thermal envelope of the enclosure:

1) make it bigger
2) put bigger or more fans in it
3) liquid cool it
Or they could help separate the heat from the user by use of a non metallic case. Like most other laptop makers. Style is one thing, usability is another.
     
aristotles
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Mar 11, 2006, 03:57 PM
 
I really think those of you who are complaining about heat should check the activity monitor in Utilities to see if there is a process hogging the CPU. I've heard that the Frontrow process might have memory leaks which might cause a lot of CPU usage and paging from memory usage and numerous threads. If this is happening, you can kill the process in Activity viewer. It will launch again when you activate it by the remote.
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voken  (op)
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Mar 11, 2006, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by voken
I got my 1.83GHz MacBook Pro just 3 days back and I can say with a bare 30 minutes of usage its getting pretty HOT....Its basically the bottom left hand side of the laptop. The top shell is completely cool and the right side part of the laptop is also OK.
I am not even putting this laptop under stress. All I am doing is just internet browisng.
OK..now I used my laptop for almost a week..and its a followup to my initial post....now surprisingly its doing pretty cool...after 1 hour of continuous use (just internet browsing) as I did b'4 now its barely warm !!!! I didn't change any sort of settings...and I agree with 'thunderous_funker' that it totally matters on what surface we place the laptop while in use. If I use it placing it on a desk, its barely warm. It gets hot (sometimes) when I place it on a pillow while I am on bed...may be b'coz of uneven surface of the pillow ? And also it gets warm to hot when using while its getting charged..
     
aristotles
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Mar 11, 2006, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by voken
OK..now I used my laptop for almost a week..and its a followup to my initial post....now surprisingly its doing pretty cool...after 1 hour of continuous use (just internet browsing) as I did b'4 now its barely warm !!!! I didn't change any sort of settings...and I agree with 'thunderous_funker' that it totally matters on what surface we place the laptop while in use. If I use it placing it on a desk, its barely warm. It gets hot (sometimes) when I place it on a pillow while I am on bed...may be b'coz of uneven surface of the pillow ? And also it gets warm to hot when using while its getting charged..
If you are using it on a pillow, you will block proper airflow.
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yticolev
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
If you are using it on a pillow, you will block proper airflow.
True, but it won't burn your legs! And I'm not even sure that your statement is correct. Yes, the bottom will be less effective as a heat sink, but the machine is not vented to the bottom.

On a related note, I played with a MacBook Pro at an Apple Store today. Very fast, subjectively at least five times as fast as my Aluminum 1.25. And it was just as "Snappy" as OS 8 (or OS 9 for that matter) was on my TiBook 500. And in many ways, much much faster. And all three machines in the store were toasty, but not as much as the machines at MacWorld were. Played with PhotoBooth for a couple of fun minutes.

Very tempting. But I think I can resist for another couple years (at least if I don't visit any stores). I still use a couple of Classic apps daily (nothing really major, just not easily replaced).
     
aristotles
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:29 PM
 
I have a small laptop tray for my current 12" pbook with a fold out mouse pad which I took with me to europe. That might give you more confort when using it.

When placed on the platic tray, the four corners are slightly raised and there is airflow underneath to keep it cool and I have an attached mouse pad area to use my travel mouse on.

Like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...p?EdpNo=291509
or
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...?EdpNo=1182884
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Mar 12, 2006, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles
If you are using it on a pillow, you will block proper airflow.
no more than if it's resting on your lap-- which given blood circulation, is an additional source of heat rather than a means to disperse it... I think the pillow wins this competition.
     
Elixir
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Mar 12, 2006, 09:50 PM
 
my laptop runs pretty cool during normal use. however today i started doing what i normally do and thats music produciton.


right now i'm running ableton live. even though its running fine i have a cause for concern.

cpu is hitting 35-48 percent btu the fans dont kick in? when will the fans kick in? this thing is still running pretty damn quiet. its geting hotter by the minute and still no fan noise out of this thing.

the top is even getting hot now.


anyway i can test the fans on this laptop?
     
john h
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Mar 13, 2006, 01:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker
Laptop heat can also be a function of what the laptop is sitting on. For example, some desks have laminate tops that heat up quickly and actually cause your laptop to retain a lot of heat. Friend of mine was having issues with an iBook where he complained that "out of the blue" his fan was working overtime and the machine was getting very warm.

I went over and sure enough, its his new desk. Shiny black laminate top. Put the laptop on any other surface, fan almost never comes on. Leave laptop on new desk, fan kicks in after just a couple of minutes.

Just something to be aware of.
Rarely comes on sitting on an I-Curve.
     
john h
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Mar 13, 2006, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by pete
The question is whether Apple can do anything about? I think it really has become an issuse, especially for thos of us who type and write a lot and those who actually need to use these things on our laps. What can be done? What are Apple's options?
Using the free download "temperature monitor" I can tell you as I type that the temp inside my Ti G4 867 is 100.4 degrees sitting on an I-Curve. Using this download you can place it on the dock or wherever and it will display your temperature. Only about 2 degrees above body temp which sounds good to me.
     
SpinCycle
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Mar 25, 2006, 05:27 PM
 
i dont even think the fans have ever come on on this MBP I am using. I heard them once when using the hardware test prog but that was only for about 2 seconds. Is there a way to make them come on?
     
mintcake
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Mar 25, 2006, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrplow
no more than if it's resting on your lap-- which given blood circulation, is an additional source of heat rather than a means to disperse it... I think the pillow wins this competition.
yes more than if it's resting on your lap, sorry. On your lap, unless your thighs are the size of Belgium and you're wearing velvet plush trousers, there will still be air circulating under the casing, and the rear vents will not be blocked. With a pillow there will be nowhere for the heat to go. Pillows are designed to accommodate and to insulate.

I can use a powerbook on my lap for as long as it takes without the fans coming on; when my wife puts it on a cushion or a pillow, they kick in after a minute or two, regardless of what she's doing. Of course, when I spot her doing this, I hand her a hardcover book asap.
     
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Mar 27, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpinCycle
i dont even think the fans have ever come on on this MBP I am using. I heard them once when using the hardware test prog but that was only for about 2 seconds. Is there a way to make them come on?
Let iTunes convert some raw sound files from disk (not from CD!) to AAC, have visuals run and play some h.264 trailers from Apple's website all at the same time. Then be patient. They should rev up. I'm not sure about the MBP, but for PowerBooks, this app showed at how many RPMs the fans are running.
     
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Apr 5, 2006, 02:16 AM
 
Seriously, the MBP only gets "hot" when the AC is plugged in, Mostly on the left upper side where the speaker and the bottom where the battery is. But it makes sense to be hot there since that's where the MBP is being charged. Memory area is the warmest of all when being used, unplugged.

If you think about it, how often do you actually have it on your lap when you can use a desk or some other surface
     
   
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