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About Iphone 4S
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Haganai
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Nov 18, 2011, 11:03 AM
 
I made a new thread since the old one is dead/old

So i am planning to buy the latest version of iphone 4s, and i am wondering, about this case here, which everyone thinks is just BS. (Conspiracy theorist, which is the name they call it..)

..Is Iphone 4S wiretapped with spy program to listen in to your conversation, or is it not?
I mean they did it with home phone, listen in to citizen, it's been done all over the U.S by the gov.

Also if you are going to be like "Turtle" don't bother.


Originally Posted by bishopazrael
So wait.

Its now public knowledge that the FBI can activate the microphone on pretty much ANY cellphone without the user knowing, and this thread is stupid?

We know that pretty much any software platform can be hacked, cracked or in laymans terms, can be compromised. Now it seems to stand up to my way of thinking that if the FBI can figure out how to do it, then the info is in the public domain SOMEWHERE. There are just as many private citizens who are just as determined to make money as the feds are to misuse it.

And we've all see how the FBI and the NSA have been happy to use warrant-less wiretapping. We can assume that its a fairly good certainty that there's software out there to do what the OP was asking for. For the OP.. only thing you can do is wipe your phone and start over from scratch.
Backups are like guns and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.




Originally Posted by turtle777
O'Rly ?

Care to share your Public Knowledge" ?
Links, please.

-t



Originally Posted by bishopazrael

Turtle,
just google it. Its been admitted to in court as a method they used against the mafia on the eastern seaboard. NY & NJ if I recall correctly. I don't need to supply you with links when you're just as capable of using google as I am. And I've no reason to lie so I take offense to your pleading ignorance when I'm fairly certain you've heard of this before and you're just being coy.

And yes, they surely can. What makes you think they wouldn't be able to? Are you really that blindly trusting of the US government? The same government that had AT&T build in back doors for the NSA? The same government that has been doing warrentless wiretapping on US citizens?

Please. If you are telling me you believe that the government wouldn't do this kind of thing you're more naive than you have a right to be for someone who's been around computers as much as your stars indicate you have been.

Hell... just because I know you're gonna try and come back at me for some goddamn thing here's yer frakin article from Cnet. You can google the rest.




Originally Posted by turtle777
Pfff, most links that I could find (including yours) are a lot of speculation and FUD, at least when taking your comment "the FBI can activate the microphone on pretty much ANY cellphone" at face value.


Even Bruce Schneier admits:
I never had any actual evidence one way or the other
Also, it seems like the other option is to use special software on the phones:

An article in the Financial Times last year said mobile providers can "remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call."
This I don't dispute. And theoretically, should be possible with the iPhone, too, but only with Apple's knowledge and consent.

Btw, my iPhone barely lasts a day with some calls and regular internet use. Do you know how long the iPhone battery would last when constantly transmitting ?
2 hrs ? 3 mours ?

Pretty useless for the purpose of wiretapping.

A 2003 lawsuit revealed that the FBI was able to surreptitiously turn on the built-in microphones in automotive systems like General Motors' OnStar to snoop on passengers' conversations.
When FBI agents remotely activated the system and were listening in, passengers in the vehicle could not tell that their conversations were being monitored.
Complete Apples to Oranges comparison.
OnStar is designed to do that kind of stuff, like remotely shut down the electronics in the car.

-t




Originally Posted by bishopazrael
Fine. Be obtuse. I think everyone here will acknowledge that this is the way of things. First come reports that it "might" be possible or its "technically possible", then a few more hints this is the way its done... then finally it'll come out that the gov't been doing it for years.

Are you that big of a republican that you believe the gov't can do no wrong? That they're that stupid to NOT be able to do it? In any case, I know what I know and you know what you know. My part's been said. Just do me a favor and don't try to sugar coat it or deceive others about this sort of thing by stating what your feelings are as facts.
Backups are like guns and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.




Originally Posted by turtle777
Dude, you don't know sh!t. And you got no hard facts, just conspiracy theories.
If Schneier has not seen a single hard fact, I think it's more FUD than anything else.

I'm not saying it's impossible, or that it will never happen.
I'm just disputing your matter-of-fact statement that "the FBI can activate the microphone on pretty much ANY cellphone".

But whatever. Meanwhile, just keep polishing your tinfoil hat.

-t




Originally Posted by bishopazrael
I give up. I'm so ****ing tired of your shazzbutty attitude. Most of your post are about trying to prove someone else wrong and I'm really sick of seeing your piss poor attitude on here towards other members. You're constantly putting people down because YOU think you know it all. Sure you have helpful posts, but more often than not you're being a condescending jacka**. Rather than admit you didn't know that it was technically possible you decided to belittle me for having known about something you admittedly didn't know anything about until yesterday. I'm only speaking for myself but you're really a drag to talk with here on this forum. You can't ever disagree with another member without putting them down and telling them to "polish the tinfoil hat".

frack off.

edit: Furthermore if you read the Cnet article it clearly states, as anyone here can read, that the court ruled it was an acceptable means of wiretapping because they HAVE DONE IT. Reading the whole article shows language like CAN, HAS BEEN USED, or if you like:

"Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone."

So take your defense of the government and shove it turtle.

That being said, reading the cnet article clearly shows that the technique HAS been used. The court was asked to rule on it because it had been used, and they needed to make sure that evidence gathered from that technique was admissible. So if it HAS been used your entire post is nothing more than you pontificating your regular drivel.
(Last edited by bishopazrael; Jun 6, 2009 at 02:56 PM. )
Backups are like guns and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

See that? that person "Turtle", is an egomaniac, who thinks that he know everything, so if you are going to be like him, don't bother.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 18, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
I would like to see a single reputable source claiming that this is possible.

Wiretapping definitely is, and is used extensively (with appropriate warrants).

But in the absence of any reputable source, the onus is on people posting conspiracy theories to make their claims plausible.

PS: what is "egomaniacal" about not believing everything some dude on an internet forum claims and refuses to back up (deferring instead to Google)?
     
Haganai  (op)
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Nov 18, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I would like to see a single reputable source claiming that this is possible.

Wiretapping definitely is, and is used extensively (with appropriate warrants).

But in the absence of any reputable source, the onus is on people posting conspiracy theories to make their claims plausible.

PS: what is "egomaniacal" about not believing everything some dude on an internet forum claims and refuses to back up (deferring instead to Google)?
Please read through correctly before you reply, it's not "egomaniacal" but "Egomaniac"
egomaniac - definition of egomaniac by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

And i am not claiming it to be true, i ask whether if it's true or not, that they are implementing it on iphone apps 4s.
Because the gov does many thing these days, thing that are unacceptable.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 18, 2011, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
Please read through correctly before you reply, it's not "egomaniacal" but "Egomaniac"
egomaniac - definition of egomaniac by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Adjective - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you're going to correct me, please make sure you know basic grammar.

Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
And i am not claiming it to be true, i ask whether if it's true or not, that they are implementing it on iphone apps 4s.
Because the gov does many thing these days, thing that are unacceptable.
While that may be true, I'm asking for sources of this claim.

I'm quite certain the government could also force handset manufacturers to build electro-shock tasers into their cellphones, so that they could remotely immobilize known or suspected criminals.

It is not worth considering such ideas at all, though, unless somebody puts for a reasoned argument and backs it up with facts that make it not only possible, but plausible.

Otherwise, we'd all be wasting our time and effort on every bullshit fantasy sprung forth from any paranoid sci-fi addled brain.



So: Is there ANY reason to consider this idea at all? Do you have any sources?

And why does refusing to think about bullshit paranoid fantasies put forth without any sort of argumentative reasoning or factual background make one an "egomaniac" (adj.: "egomaniacal")?
     
Big Mac
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Nov 18, 2011, 02:24 PM
 
[mispost]

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
mduell
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Nov 18, 2011, 02:29 PM
 
Wikipedia has a number of references.

Even DoD issued phones aren't allowed in classified meetings. Basket by the door with a pile of sticky notes.
     
Big Mac
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Nov 18, 2011, 02:47 PM
 
Then having an AT&T iPhone is a good form of protection because of the poor voice quality of its network.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 18, 2011, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Wikipedia has a number of references.

Even DoD issued phones aren't allowed in classified meetings. Basket by the door with a pile of sticky notes.
Thank you.

That requires special software to be installed on the handset and running in the background, though.

In this case, it would require the cooperation of Apple's software engineers.
     
subego
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Nov 18, 2011, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Even DoD issued phones aren't allowed in classified meetings. Basket by the door with a pile of sticky notes.
I'd imagine this is because first and foremost, most phones can function as user initiated recording devices. Likewise, I doubt they'd let you take a tape recorder in.
     
Andy8
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Nov 18, 2011, 08:20 PM
 
The Land of the Free™
     
thesearcher
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Nov 18, 2011, 11:42 PM
 
Spy program built in or not, couldn't the provider listen in if they wanted? Of course, they'd need a reason to target anyone in particular...
     
turtle777
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Nov 18, 2011, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
See that? that person "Turtle", is an egomaniac, who thinks that he know everything, so if you are going to be like him, don't bother.
Oh, look, a Fresh-Faced Fanboi. I like.

-t
     
CIA
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Nov 19, 2011, 12:50 AM
 
This is why my iPhone case is actually a sealed lead box with 8" walls.
Work: 2008 8x3.2 MacPro, 8800GT, 16GB ram, zillions of HDs. (video editing)
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Nov 19, 2011, 01:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
See that? that person "Turtle", is an egomaniac, who thinks that he know everything, so if you are going to be like him, don't bother.
Reading the posts you referenced, it seems like you also think you know everything.

Is it possible? Sure. Seems unlikely, though, that Apple would agree to this without a law requiring it; the damage to Apple would be severe if/when news got out about it. .
Post your sources of knowledge so we can properly respond to your question.
     
aristotles
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Nov 19, 2011, 01:23 AM
 
It is technically possible for Apple to do this but it would be impractical and anyone on a capped data plan would be tipped off pretty quickly by overage charges.

If you are a person of interest, they really don't need to do anything specific for iPhones but can just put a virtual "bug" into the exchange (area code) your SIM card is registered with looking for any incoming or outgoing calls for your number and recording the conversation directly from the switch.

It would be incredibly impractical to store and analyze all conversations on the cellular network so the government would only "spy" on you if you had done something to draw attention to you to become a "person of interest".

Disclaimer:I don't work for any government agency and I'm just speaking hypothetically.
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subego
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Nov 19, 2011, 02:09 AM
 
He's talking about turning on your microphone while not on a call.
     
aristotles
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Nov 19, 2011, 02:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He's talking about turning on your microphone while not on a call.
Right and turning on the microphone would do what exactly? Unless if there was software listening and subsequently transmitting the audio, no "spying" could take place. Any such transmissions would eat into any data caps present and eat into battery life.

I'm just trying to show that using an iPhone for bugging a person of interest would be impractical.
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Spheric Harlot
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Nov 19, 2011, 03:30 AM
 
It's already being done using other handsets.

If providers supplied the government back doors onto their phones, you don't think that not having those count against data caps would be the easiest thing to solve?

With the iPhone, this is more difficult, as the providers don't actually have control over the software on the phone.

Originally Posted by thesearcher View Post
Spy program built in or not, couldn't the provider listen in if they wanted? Of course, they'd need a reason to target anyone in particular...
Not without a spy program. That's the point.

How would they switch on the microphone without it?
     
subego
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Nov 19, 2011, 04:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
Right and turning on the microphone would do what exactly? Unless if there was software listening and subsequently transmitting the audio, no "spying" could take place. Any such transmissions would eat into any data caps present and eat into battery life.

I'm just trying to show that using an iPhone for bugging a person of interest would be impractical.
Most of your post seemed to address bugging actual phone calls, expressed in manner which made it seem like you felt it was directly relevant to his question.
     
Haganai  (op)
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Nov 19, 2011, 10:06 AM
 
You know what, i give up, i didn't come here to register and have you make a "#¤"#"!#¤" out of this, i was simply asking about one simple question.

The reason why i ask is because of this:
� Investigation: Government Ordered Cellphone Companies to Spy on Users Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

I do not know english grammar very well, since i am not a native.
I didn't know "egomaniacal"is the "adjective" for "egomaniac" like you said)
I though you didn't know what "egomaniac" is so i provide you links, but you took it the hard way.
I didn't read your reply carefully, my mistake.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Otherwise, we'd all be wasting our time and effort on every bullshit fantasy sprung forth from any paranoid sci-fi addled brain.
Looks like you're just another one like turtle over there....
I just asked a question and your reply with something else.
( Last edited by Haganai; Nov 19, 2011 at 11:22 AM. )
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 19, 2011, 10:26 AM
 
Your topic is a bit better suited to conspiracy theory forums, especially without a reputable source.
     
Haganai  (op)
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Nov 19, 2011, 11:08 AM
 
What is the use of reputable source, when the gov will just claim it as "conspiracy theorist", and people just accept it like a flock of sheep.

Anyway if you insist, i have some site which tell us about what the gov did, which mainstream media covered up.
This is not actually about iphone, mostly about what the u.s did to people, but if you look through you might find an article about it.

Press TV
Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
RT

If you still call that a conspiracy theorist, then best of luck to you.
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 19, 2011, 11:35 AM
 
Infowars is pretty much the definition of a conspiracy theorist site.
     
subego
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Nov 19, 2011, 01:46 PM
 
Infowars are like turtle.
     
mduell
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Nov 20, 2011, 02:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
It is technically possible for Apple to do this but it would be impractical and anyone on a capped data plan would be tipped off pretty quickly by overage charges.
Data plans are irrelevant if you have the carrier's cooperation.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 20, 2011, 04:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
You know what, i give up, i didn't come here to register and have you make a "#¤"#"!#¤" out of this, i was simply asking about one simple question.
I wanted to know where this idea was coming from. Why you didn't just respond with a link, I have no idea. But I assume this is a personal thing for you.

FWIW, the link mduell posted makes this seem like a legitimate concern.

I don't think it's likely on iPhone for reasons described above (mostly because third-party access is limited, so this would have to be something installed by Apple themselves into the operating system, PLUS cooperation of the carriers), but it's certainly worth discussing.
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
I do not know english grammar very well, since i am not a native.
I didn't know "egomaniacal"is the "adjective" for "egomaniac" like you said)
I though you didn't know what "egomaniac" is so i provide you links, but you took it the hard way.
I didn't read your reply carefully, my mistake.
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
Please read through correctly before you reply, it's not "egomaniacal" but "Egomaniac"


Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
Looks like you're just another one like turtle over there....
I just asked a question and your reply with something else.
Not really.

You just asked a question, and I basically replied, "Why do you ask?"

If that's a problem for you, I suggest to stick to peer-reviewed science. That's about the safest claims you can make (and even there, you've got dunderheads throwing accepted knowledge into question).
     
turtle777
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Nov 20, 2011, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Haganai View Post
Anyway if you insist, i have some site which tell us about what the gov did, which mainstream media covered up.
This is not actually about iphone, mostly about what the u.s did to people, but if you look through you might find an article about it.

Press TV
Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
RT

If you still call that a conspiracy theorist, then best of luck to you.
LOL, thanks for the conspiracy / alternative media spam links.

-t
     
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Nov 21, 2011, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
...
Not without a spy program. That's the point.

How would they switch on the microphone without it?
I of course meant actual calls placed, ie. they can still spy on someone's phone calls anyway, without bothering to use spyware for when a call is not in place.
     
Don Pickett
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Nov 22, 2011, 12:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
This is why my iPhone case is actually a sealed lead box with 8" walls.
For the win.
The era of anthropomorphizing hardware is over.
     
   
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