[starman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

We've really got a thought police running in here, don't we? Sheesh.


Better than ADB and serial, yes. Better than SCSI - hell no. Using an external hard drive or CD burner with the original iMac was a painful experience, resulting in the iMac being basically a toy until... surprise... FireWire came around.

FireWire was the reason we stopped bitching about SCSI, not USB.

BTW, here's something else to think about - if there's no room on the MacBook for a FW port, then there's no room for an eSATA port either - and that's poised to become the next standard for high-speed connectivity. If Apple's really that tight for space, they're not going to be able to adopt new technologies down the road, and they're going to be stuck in the past for a long time.

The CONTEXT for USB was in reference to ADB.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

simon...you sound pretty angry yourself. what are you so angry about? if you don't need firewire, you'll be fine with a new macbook. for others, this is a problem worthy of discussion (as i've pointed out above).

As you well know, I rely upon Firewire daily, and as an ex-12" Powerbook owner, I value small and powerful very highly, which is why I love my MacBook.

Apple's choice bites me and forces me to buy a MacBook Pro.

That doesn't change the fact that it was a sound and completely understandable business decision.

That's not apology, that's ****ing LIFE.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

simon, apple is selling LAST YEAR'S macbook with firewire.

Well, starman must be a real idiot for buying LAST YEAR'S computer, right? Or is it maybe still current and doesn't suddenly SUCK ASS just because Apple already brought out next year's computer in time for the holidays?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

The CONTEXT for USB was in reference to ADB.

The post you were replying to mentioned "SCSI and ADB". SCSI coming first. Later on in the thread it was referred to as "the iMac SCSI thing" without ADB.

I myself don't remember that much bitching about ADB - USB was a clearly superior technology. I remember a lot of bitching about SCSI, which incidentally is a lot more analogous to the current situation.

[starman]

I hated SCSI. I know it had a big following, but goddamn - I HATED it. Fat cables, devices locking up because you forgot to set IDs or properly terminate, needing drivers.

*shiver*

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

As you well know, I rely upon Firewire daily, and as an ex-12" Powerbook owner, I value small and powerful very highly, which is why I love my MacBook.

Apple's choice bites me and forces me to buy a MacBook Pro.

That doesn't change the fact that it was a sound and completely understandable business decision.

That's not apology, that's ****ing LIFE.

um...business decisions from a company dependent on retail usually involve some acknowledgement of it's customers needs, and here (i think) apple has messed up. i've abandoned my beloved 12" powerbook as well, want a small light mac, AND need firewire. think all the discussion here (at macnn) and elsewhere (and there is a LOT) is worthwhile...

[starman]

So does anyone thing that Apple will put FW in a future Macbook update or are we screwed? Maybe by the time I need a new laptop the devices I need will die and I won't need FW anymore, but man, I'm REALLY going to miss Target Disk Mode. I can't believe Apple did that.

I'll even be happy with a card slot.

[fisherKing]

it would be amazing if apple paid attention to all the rantings online, and gave us a 13" macbook with firewire AND a better screen, but am not holding my breath.

meanwhile, i may hold off on a new laptop (i have a desktop mac) until i absolutely need one for a project (and then i may go for the new 'book, misgivings notwithstanding).

[starman]

I think what's so annoying about this problem is that there are no workarounds. If there were, I don't think nearly as many people would be complaining.

[MartiNZ]

The 12" PB certainly was compact for what it had in there, but as has been said, it was quite a bit thicker, and only had one RAM slot available. I never once used the FW port on my 12" PB and I'm glad they left it out of the new MB to keep it small - in fact I wish they could have done more in that direction, it would be nice if the new MB could lose a bit more off the hips.

I think that a nice option might be to drop the optical drive and add in a few more ports on the right; another USB, FW 800, etc. That way they could probably even shrink the bezel and thus the machine more too!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

I hated SCSI. I know it had a big following, but goddamn - I HATED it. Fat cables, devices locking up because you forgot to set IDs or properly terminate, needing drivers.

*shiver*

Well yes (except for the part about needing drivers), but until FireWire came around, SCSI was kind of necessary to have a way to, you know, back up your machine.

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Of course they chose to do so.

But concluding that they did so because they wanted to screw people over is not a fact.

Neither is anything you've been trying to preach as gospel. The only thing that is a fact is that there is now a gap in Apple's lineup that wasn't there before. So if you are one of those that invested into the Firewire future Apple painted for us then the cheapest current-gen Apple FW enabled notebook is $1999. So yes, creating an intentional money-grabbing rift IS screwing over the customers.

Originally Posted by Simon 

They would have had to pay a price to keep FW in there, and quite obviously to them it wasn't worth that.

And what price is that? This has nothing to do with what it would have cost THEM and has everything to do with what it costs US.


Okay, well since it seems to be your standard bit then feel free to call everyone noobs again or do whatever is necessary to keep those pants dry.

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by starman 

I think what's so annoying about this problem is that there are no workarounds. If there were, I don't think nearly as many people would be complaining.

Exactly. DisplayPort and FW800 may be annoying to those who don't have those devices but there are adapters to solve the problem (even though Apple raised the Dongle tax $10). But removing a port completely creates a problem with no solution other than "go buy the bigger, more expensive model".

The thing that is almost humorous here is that for amateur movie makers then last gens Macbooks were very capable machines that only lacked in GPU. But here they are giving us a good GPU and then removing the means of data input. To pretend moves like that aren't intentionally is just silly. Apple knows exactly what they're doing.

[tcphoto]

I was perfectly happy with my older PB G4. It had multiple USB, FW400 and FW800, so I could connect my external drives, digital cameras that had FW400 cables and burn a DVD or copy to a flash drive for my clients. I have had a matte display for 14 years that I could calibrate and work with in just about any environment. Apple replaced that machine because of repeated issues that were not fixed, so I can't scream too loudly. But, the new display has its own characteristics and the FW400 is an issue. Yes, I bought the Sonnet adapter but it just reminds me of someone building their own PC with Mr. Wizard parts. I have dozens of cables and do not want to buy more so I can connect a camera that will be updated soon. The next upgrade will utilize USB2.0 but that still leaves the glossy/wet looking display. Apple must be very happy with creatives buying previous generation machines, it gets rid of old stock and reduces their loss. I'm thinking they've out grown the MacBook Pro name and should call it the MacBook Consumer.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by tcphoto 

I was perfectly happy with my older PB G4. It had multiple USB, FW400 and FW800, so I could connect my external drives, digital cameras that had FW400 cables and burn a DVD or copy to a flash drive for my clients. I have had a matte display for 14 years that I could calibrate and work with in just about any environment. Apple replaced that machine because of repeated issues that were not fixed, so I can't scream too loudly. But, the new display has its own characteristics and the FW400 is an issue. Yes, I bought the Sonnet adapter but it just reminds me of someone building their own PC with Mr. Wizard parts. I have dozens of cables and do not want to buy more so I can connect a camera that will be updated soon. The next upgrade will utilize USB2.0 but that still leaves the glossy/wet looking display. Apple must be very happy with creatives buying previous generation machines, it gets rid of old stock and reduces their loss. I'm thinking they've out grown the MacBook Pro name and should call it the MacBook Consumer.

really. or something like "iMacbook" or "iPodBook". Why work on a macbook, when you could be watching a DVD??

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by starman 

So does anyone thing that Apple will put FW in a future Macbook update or are we screwed?

I think, the thing is to make noise. Vote with your feet! Apple should at least get the point. I wrote them already.
It's not too unusual though, I remember when Steve tried to kill the audio-in port on Powerbooks or the premature burial of MacOS 9, both he had to take back after he got the fire for it.

PB.

[- - e r i k - -]

What exactly did he take back after the burial of OS 9? It was dead Jim.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

um...business decisions from a company dependent on retail usually involve some acknowledgement of it's customers needs, and here (i think) apple has messed up. i've abandoned my beloved 12" powerbook as well, want a small light mac, AND need firewire. think all the discussion here (at macnn) and elsewhere (and there is a LOT) is worthwhile...

You have needs. You need a laptop with Firewire. You *want* a small light Mac laptop. At some point, when they drop the plastic MacBook, you can't get one that has Firewire. You will buy a MacBook Pro.

End of story.

Which part of "win-win situation for Apple" are you not getting?



Apple isn't losing any sales through this decision - and the interest these books are generating is HUGE.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You have needs. You need a laptop with Firewire. You *want* a small light Mac laptop. At some point, when they drop the plastic MacBook, you can't get one that has Firewire. You will buy a MacBook Pro.

End of story.

Which part of "win-win situation for Apple" are you not getting?



Apple isn't losing any sales through this decision - and the interest these books are generating is HUGE.

so all the posters on the apple forum (apple users mostly) who are NOT planning on buying a macbook because of the lack of firewire are NOT affecting apple sales? and your information comes from???

i've never seen apple get so hammered with bad press; negative reviews for the macbook screen, a LOT of people angry about the lack of firewire. how is this a "win-win" situation? and if you're ok with this, why not let those who aren't post their thoughts?

look, believe what you want (we're ALL doing that); but i think it's sad that apple, who made a 12" powerbook for people like me (who wanted a small & light "pro" machine) has stopped caring what ANYONE thinks..

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i've never seen apple get so hammered with bad press; negative reviews for the macbook screen, a LOT of people angry about the lack of firewire.

I remember there was a much bigger fuss when firewire disappeared from the iPods. That was quickly forgotten.

I agree it should have a better screen though.

[freudling]

I am getting sick of the firewire rants, like others I am sure. Ok, you have a choice, you know?

1. Buy a White MacBook
2. Buy a MacBook Pro
3. Buy something else entirely

But all of this is moot if USB 2.0 or 2. whatever is as fast as firewire 400, to a certain extent. I realize FW target disk mode is gone, and I realize people want the new UniMBP, not the Flighty Whitey one.

Just make due without it.

[starman]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I am getting sick of the firewire rants, like others I am sure. Ok, you have a choice, you know?

1. Buy a White MacBook
2. Buy a MacBook Pro
3. Buy something else entirely

But all of this is moot if USB 2.0 or 2. whatever is as fast as firewire 400, to a certain extent. I realize FW target disk mode is gone, and I realize people want the new UniMBP, not the Flighty Whitey one.

Just make due without it.

Funny how people trumpeted FW when it first came out and now people are saying "make due without it".

This isn't an ADB->USB transition. This goes into the 4-digit range to replace components because Apple wants to extort $1000 from people that need FW.

[Simon]

The latest benchmarks from BareFeats on graphics performance.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

What exactly did he take back after the burial of OS 9? It was dead Jim.

They had to bring back 0S9 machines, because a) many large customers continued to use OS9 applications and b) 10.0 was an awful dog with the according feedback.

PB.

[P]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

They had to bring back 0S9 machines, because a) many large customers continued to use OS9 applications and b) 10.0 was an awful dog with the according feedback.

PB.

Ooooo. K. The infamous "OS 9 burial" was at WWDC 2002, at which point 10.1 was already out for more than 6 months, and the commentary was "Mac OS 9 isn't dead for our customers yet, but it's dead for [developers],". 10.0 was never the default booting OS for Macs - the first one was 10.1, in January of 2002, but even then OS 9 was shipped with the machines. The first model that did not boot into OS 9 was the Firewire 800-equipped PM G4, launched in January 2003 after the release of 10.2, which featured several improvements to Classic that in most cases made it faster and better than running OS 9 natively.

The only semblance of a point you have is that Apple released an OS 9-capable PM G4 as a low-end option 6 months after the release of the Firewire 800-equiped models, but there was never a period when there were no OS 9-capable models (the eMacs booted OS 9 all through the 6 month gap in Powermac support).

When OS 9 support was finally removed in June 2004, more than 3 years after the release of 10.0 and something like 7 years after the timeplan for it had been made very clear, it was never returned. Happily, the more backwards members of the Mac community soon had an Intel transition to bitch about instead, as that was revealed less than a year later.

[CharlesS]

Yeah, the OS 9 thing isn't a winning argument.

Originally Posted by starman 

Funny how people trumpeted FW when it first came out and now people are saying "make due without it".

This isn't an ADB->USB transition. This goes into the 4-digit range to replace components because Apple wants to extort $1000 from people that need FW.

Not only that, but IIRC there were plenty of adapters out to adapt ADB and serial to USB, and they probably were very acceptable speed-wise since even USB 1.1 was a couple of orders of magnitude faster than either of those standards. Unfortunately, this won't be possible for FireWire, because it's actually faster than USB 2.0.

SCSI is a much more appropriate analogy than ADB in this case.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

so all the posters on the apple forum (apple users mostly) who are NOT planning on buying a macbook because of the lack of firewire are NOT affecting apple sales? and your information comes from???

I'm in Apple sales.

And all of those people WILL buy something, at some point. So they won't buy the 13" alu MacBook. Who cares?

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i've never seen apple get so hammered with bad press; negative reviews for the macbook screen, a LOT of people angry about the lack of firewire. how is this a "win-win" situation? and if you're ok with this, why not let those who aren't post their thoughts?

"Hammered with bad press"? What are you reading? Some frothing-at-the-mouth blog nerd?

The mainstream press LOVES these machines. They all mention the lack of Firewire as something that may put off some people. In the second-to-last sentence.

The screens are better than the last-generation plastic MacBooks'. Yeah, Apple sure got "hammered" over those.

Dude. Face it: There's a couple thousand people for whom this is a big deal. Apple is looking to sell a couple of tens of MILLIONS of these machines. Most computer buyers have never even HEARD of Firewire.

Yeah, it sucks.

So?

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

look, believe what you want (we're ALL doing that); but i think it's sad that apple, who made a 12" powerbook for people like me (who wanted a small & light "pro" machine) has stopped caring what ANYONE thinks..

They haven't.

You may remember that there has not been a single machine in the history of this company that didn't have SOMEBODY up in arms, raving that Apple didn't care about their particular needs or thoughts...BULLSHIT.

The 12" PowerBook had no DVI, no expansion slot, no FW800, and - most importantly - only a single RAM expansion slot. That last one alone absolutely CRIPPLED it for most serious production work. Don't believe me? I was there for the discussion. I bought a Rev. A 12" PowerBook.

The MacBook was a wonderful machine in every respect but GODDAMN APPLE HAVE YOU LOST YOUR SENSES? How can a CONSUMER laptop not cater to the gaming crowd? They don't care what their customers want! Yaddayaddayadda.

Sure, vent away, sir, but I'll reserve the right to point out that you're simply wrong, that Apple HAS researched their market and HAS made a decision that is in EVERY WAY beneficial to them.

Apple has never been "the computer that caters to your special needs".

Macintosh went to market in 1984 as "the computer for the rest of us".

Get used to it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by starman 

Funny how people trumpeted FW when it first came out and now people are saying "make due without it".

This isn't an ADB->USB transition. This goes into the 4-digit range to replace components because Apple wants to extort $1000 from people that need FW.

This is a valid point - once the low-end plastic MacBook disappears.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm in Apple sales.

And all of those people WILL buy something, at some point. So they won't buy the 13" alu MacBook. Who cares?




"Hammered with bad press"? What are you reading? Some frothing-at-the-mouth blog nerd?

The mainstream press LOVES these machines. They all mention the lack of Firewire as something that may put off some people. In the second-to-last sentence.

The screens are better than the last-generation plastic MacBooks'. Yeah, Apple sure got "hammered" over those.

Dude. Face it: There's a couple thousand people for whom this is a big deal. Apple is looking to sell a couple of tens of MILLIONS of these machines. Most computer buyers have never even HEARD of Firewire.

Yeah, it sucks.

So?


They haven't.

You may remember that there has not been a single machine in the history of this company that didn't have SOMEBODY up in arms, raving that Apple didn't care about their particular needs or thoughts...BULLSHIT.

The 12" PowerBook had no DVI, no expansion slot, no FW800, and - most importantly - only a single RAM expansion slot. That last one alone absolutely CRIPPLED it for most serious production work. Don't believe me? I was there for the discussion. I bought a Rev. A 12" PowerBook.

The MacBook was a wonderful machine in every respect but GODDAMN APPLE HAVE YOU LOST YOUR SENSES? How can a CONSUMER laptop not cater to the gaming crowd? They don't care what their customers want! Yaddayaddayadda.

Sure, vent away, sir, but I'll reserve the right to point out that you're simply wrong, that Apple HAS researched their market and HAS made a decision that is in EVERY WAY beneficial to them.

Apple has never been "the computer that caters to your special needs".

Macintosh went to market in 1984 as "the computer for the rest of us".

Get used to it.

ah well, i disagree with you, mostly. and i did pro audio work on my 1.5g 12" powerbook...with firewire.
but rant on, it makes for a good read...

[starman]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm in Apple sales.

Bias. Right there.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The screens are better than the last-generation plastic MacBooks'. Yeah, Apple sure got "hammered" over those.

Dude. Face it: There's a couple thousand people for whom this is a big deal. Apple is looking to sell a couple of tens of MILLIONS of these machines.

actually, when i compared them side-by-side, the earlier macbook had better color and significantly less reflection.
but "tens of MILLIONS"? that's my favorite line of the day...

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm in Apple sales.

Ahh that explains the arrogant I know best attitude and the various belittling posts. I've seen too many apple salesmen who think they know more about my needs then I do.

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm in Apple sales.

It's kinda funny how all credibility for an intelligent discussion was squashed by that one statement. What exactly does a BMW salesmen get by being sympathetic to the needs of the customer? Nothin. Selling Apple's is no different than selling in BMW's or Gap Jeans. Their payday is determined on whether or not we believe some stranger with a bad moustache and clip-on tie knows what is best for us.

I guess that's the rift between consumer and salesmen. Why trust someone who's job is to throw numbers and useless stats at you until you buy something you don't necessarily need.

[Chuckit]

For crying out loud, people, even if he sells Macs for a living, it's not like you're going to come into his store and buy one from him. Selling Macs just gives him a different perspective — it doesn't give him an ulterior motive in this situation.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by spheric harlot 

i'm in apple sales.

get him!

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Urkel 

IWhat exactly does a BMW salesmen get by being sympathetic to the needs of the customer? Nothin..

Reminds me of the old joke, what's the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman.


The used car salesman knows what he's talking about

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And all of those people WILL buy something, at some point.

Most computer buyers have never even HEARD of Firewire.

Apple HAS researched their market and HAS made a decision that is in EVERY WAY beneficial to them.

In all honest, I smell true. People is not giving up on Apple and switching cause the lack of FireWire, they may rant a good week, then ponder about the good, the not-so good and sooner or later getting any given Mac. You have to get the message Apple is spreading… given the market evolution, FireWire doesn't belong to a computer not labeled as 'Pro'. If I didn't went blind and until iMac & Mac mini revisions arrive that's all we know right now about the state of FireWire. Of course they have researched the market, I would swear anybody would deny that the FireWire lacking iPods were a fantastic field-test.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

For crying out loud, people, even if he sells Macs for a living, it's not like you're going to come into his store and buy one from him. Selling Macs just gives him a different perspective — it doesn't give him an ulterior motive in this situation.

Absolutely right. I don't see an Apple salesperson being any more biased than the FW mujaheddin in here.

I stand by my earlier statement. This is the iMac SCSI thing all over again. One to two years from now and nobody will give a damn about FW. Was it a bad standard? No, of course not. But Apple botched it (fees, restriced intro of FW800, no early push for faster speeds, etc.). And now USB has taken over. Bus-powered eSATA and eventually USB3 will take over whatever FW had. It won't happen in the next weeks, but it will happen within the foreseeable future.

Of course, if you really want a MB with FW you could just go out and buy one, but obviously some prefer to rant here. Even if we all know perfectly well this whole FW rage is in vain. Apple won't reverse on this decision. They made the right call even if it's not evident to everybody today.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Absolutely right. I don't see an Apple salesperson being any more biased than the FW mujaheddin in here.

I stand by my earlier statement. This is the iMac SCSI thing all over again. One to two years from now and nobody will give a damn about FW. Was it a bad standard? No, of course not. But Apple botched it (fees, restriced intro of FW800, no early push for faster speeds, etc.). And now USB has taken over. Bus-powered eSATA and eventually USB3 will take over whatever FW had. It won't happen in the next weeks, but it will happen within the foreseeable future.

Of course, if you really want a MB with FW you could just go out and buy one, but obviously some prefer to rant here. Even if we all know perfectly well this whole FW rage is in vain. Apple won't reverse on this decision. They made the right call even if it's not evident to everybody today.

hmmm...i thought this forum was a place to discuss (as well as provide support help). a lot of people who DO use firewire are being hung out to dry; that may seem okay to you (and apparently to apple), but for some of us (and there are a lot here, and check the apple forums, and google a bit) this is a huge mistake.

people with limited budgets, students, artists. people with firewire drives for time machine, storage. audio people with FW interfaces, people with FW dv cams... enough perhaps to at least make some noise (and maybe apple WILL consider this next revision).

if not, at least we're heard! no harm in that...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

You have to get the message Apple is spreading… given the market evolution, FireWire doesn't belong to a computer not labeled as 'Pro'.

Perhaps in the PC world it doesn't make sense as a built-in port on a computer not labeled as 'Pro'. But in the PC world, we can just add FW ourselves to any machine, whether it's labeled 'Pro' or not. Apple won't let us do that, so it hits a lot harder here.

I find it ironic that people are bitching about "you guys just want Apple to cater to your specific needs!" In the PC world a company doesn't have to cater to all its customers' needs, because their computers are expandable and anyone can just add a card for whatever they need. But Apple refuses to do that. By denying users any expandability, they're essentially saying that they are catering to their customers' every need, out of the box. It's Apple saying this, not the users...

[starman]

I love how people say that FW doesn't belong on a machine that doesn't say "Pro". Remember the early iPods? Yeah. That.

[- - e r i k - -]

Haha. This thread is almost as entertaining as the Pol/War lounge now and just as vitriolic. Good times.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Ahh that explains the arrogant I know best attitude and the various belittling posts. I've seen too many apple salesmen who think they know more about my needs then I do.

a) I know about my own needs and wants, and I TOO AM PISSED ABOUT THE OMISSION OF FIREWIRE.

b) You don't think that knowing who's actually buying these computers, and what they're buying them for, makes for some sort of realistic assessment of market potential? I mean, as opposed to six people in a geek forum having at me simply for stating that I think their judgement makes sense, even if it makes me unhappy?

Originally Posted by Urkel 

It's kinda funny how all credibility for an intelligent discussion was squashed by that one statement. What exactly does a BMW salesmen get by being sympathetic to the needs of the customer? Nothin.

I am a customer, as well, you moron.

Which part of "I'M A MUSICIAN WHO LOVED HIS 12" POWERBOOK, LOVES HIS 13" MACBOOK, AND DEPENDS UPON FIREWIRE DAILY" did you not understand?

I don't like their decision. But I can understand it well. I don't want a 15" 'Book. But in my job (music), NEEDS take preference over WANTS. I have an option. I'll live.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by starman 

I love how people say that FW doesn't belong on a machine that doesn't say "Pro". Remember the early iPods? Yeah. That.

Remember the options we had back then? Yeah. 12 Mbit per second. That.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

actually, when i compared them side-by-side, the earlier macbook had better color and significantly less reflection.
but "tens of MILLIONS"? that's my favorite line of the day...

You really think it's unrealistic that Apple will sell ten million of these a year?

They sold 2.6 million Macs last QUARTER, the majority of those MacBooks, IIRC - and that was with people holding out for a refresh. It's not unrealistic to estimate that they've sold somewhere between 6 to ten million of the last series - and Apple's worldwide sales *growth* is showing no signs of abating.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by starman 

Bias. Right there.

Well, duh.



But hey, the fact that I actually NEED Firewire ("need", not "want") AND carry my MacBook everywhere I go doesn't bias me at all, right?



Jeez.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

For crying out loud, people, even if he sells Macs for a living, it's not like you're going to come into his store and buy one from him. Selling Macs just gives him a different perspective — it doesn't give him an ulterior motive in this situation.

'Tis funny: when I posted that earlier, I knew exactly what to expect.

The morons are out in full force, ready to burn the messenger as a heretic.


Life's a bitch, ain't it?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Remember the options we had back then? Yeah. 12 Mbit per second. That.

Remember why that was? Remember that USB 2.0 thing that was standard on PCs for ages before Apple finally caved in and added it? Yeah, that.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

'Tis funny: when I posted that earlier, I knew exactly what to expect.

The morons are out in full force, ready to burn the messenger as a heretic.


Life's a bitch, ain't it?

you're kidding right? or are you really that impressed with yourself?

"the morons"? because a lot of people see this issue differently?

[Cold Warrior]

Guys, I think we're getting a little emotional here. Let's tone down the personal insults and keep talking about the new notebooks.