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Eug · Dec 14, 2002, 01:40 AM

Anybody compare the 867 against the Gig for noise?

Anyways, right now this house of mine would be dead silent, if it weren't for this vacuum cleaner inside my TiBook.

kerl · Dec 14, 2002, 05:32 AM

The same problem over here: I have a 1Ghz SD Titanium from Week 46, and after 30 minutes of moderate use, the fans never go off. Even on battery, they're on quite a lot.
After several phone calls to AppleCare and the usual procedure (PRAM reset, Power Manager Restet, CPU Monitor Check, ...) which didn't change anything, they finally picked it up yesterday for a check. If it turns out to be DOA, I'll get a new one.

I'll keep you updated about my case, but I can only recommend to anybody who is disturbed by this issue to do the same. And if they tell you that it's just normal, don't believe them and insist. I saw 1Ghz SD machines that run much more silent. And after I told them this, they finally agreed to let me send it in.

Of course it's still possible that I get the machine back without modifications or a replacement, but I really don't hope so...

BTW: I'm in Switzerland. This could be interesting for users from the same area, as it seems that the DOA procedure is everywhere a bit different.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 06:31 AM

1ghz = power = heat...

I think it's quite normal for the fans to be on frequently especially when doing hard work. The fan bug is as I understand it when they NEVER turn off even when doing very light work i.e browsing the web/email.

Is the air coming out warm?

I suspect you'll get your powerbook back with no changes...

Just my thoughts on the matter...what does anyone else think...

kerl · Dec 14, 2002, 07:00 AM

I don't agree.

First, I really saw this 1Ghz machine that didn't show this behavior, and we really tested it and compared it to mine: It behaved like the 800Mhz DVI systems I saw before: Under heavy load, the fan came on, but as soon as you gave it some time, after a few minutes, then fan went off. They rightside fan I never saw being activated on a 800Mhz machine. On mine 1GHz it's on all the time. But that's not where the processor is sitting (more or less the only difference to the 1Ghz machine). The air that is coming out is only slightly warm most of the time. Open the keyboard and compare the temperature inside a 800 DVI and a 1Ghz: the 800 DVI runs much warmer, but not too warm.

In my eyes, the heat sensors in the first branch of 1Ghz (or only in some machines of this branch) were adjusted wrongly. They're coming on far too early. And the fact that there are 1Ghz machines not showing this behavior is clear enough for me that it should'nt be like this. Of course you could say now that these machines are the wrong ones, but they're behavior looks much more reasonable: The fan comes on when the processor is loaded and stays off when it's not.

DVD Plaza · Dec 14, 2002, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by hippy:
Just my thoughts on the matter...what does anyone else think...

I don't think you know what you're talking about. First you create constant posts/threads about the problem, then it turns out you don't even know what the problem is or even if you have it, now you're suggesting there isn't any problem at all.

You obviously have a PowerBook that is running perfectly fine, otherwise you'd know about it, so why keep posting on the matter? Just enjoy your PowerBook

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
I don't think you know what you're talking about.

really.....well then someone else back you up....DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A 1GHZ POWERBOOK THAT BEHAVES AS ABOVE.???

...there a PB's built after the magic 6thDec showing the same fan on behaviour...it is normal, Apple has tried to make a more powerful Powerbook that doesnt burn your lap...I'm happy...live with it under load....I know there are people out there suffering with CONSTANT on fans, but they are the minority...

one09jason · 02:43 PM

Originally posted by hippy:

...Apple has tried to make a more powerful Powerbook that doesnt burn your lap.

Ironically, the fan seems to shut off when you are most likely to be using it in you lap: unplugged.

At least that's what my new 1GHz SD does.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 04:28 PM

It all makes sense to me know...AC charging is bound to introduce alot of additional heat to the system. It's got to be better than having a powerbook that gets so hot the paint bubbles and peels off....

I am not knocking anyone who has a genuine fan problem...

Eug · Dec 14, 2002, 05:21 PM

Some points.

1) After a few minutes of iTunes visualization, the loud fan comes on. It does shut off if I turn off iTunes, but often it takes a LONG time before it shuts off.

2) After extended periods of just surfing, the loud fan comes on, and sometimes will go off quickly and sometimes will stay on a long time.

3) Even the quiet TiBook fan is louder than my iBook's fan when the iBook is working at full tilt. But it's the loud windtunnel fan of the TiBook that really gets me.

4) I can't get the 800 DVI fan in the store to behave similarly. The quiet fan is damn near silent, and I've never heard the windtunnel loud fan.

5) The palm rests on my iBooks are cool even with the loud fan is on. The left is like room temperature, and right is barely warm to the touch.

6) These effects are true when the battery is already fully charged (and AC is plugged in).

It does seem there are two potential issues here:

1) The fans in the new TiBook may not be the greatest quality.
2) The temp sensor is miscalibrated.

John123 · Dec 14, 2002, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by iBorg:

Plugged into AC, my Ti's right fan turns on within 5 minutes, even with simple internet browsing alone, and generally continues to run as long as it's plugged in. Hot air blows out the right-sided vent, so I know it's cooling the laptop, and the bottom becomes quite warm, although not too excessive to use on my lap. The fan is not very loud, much quieter than my Pismo 500's fan (although that fan only came on occasionally, with heavy use), and when the 2nd fan comes on (hardly ever, without really pressing the processor!), it's a little louder, but never excessive. Even though it's not loud, I'm concerned that the right fan stays on.

On battery, the right fan comes on later, and is intermittent - again, hot air blows out the right vent, so it's definitely cooling the laptop.

Hell, at this point, I don't know if I have "the fan problem" or not - but the noise isn't excessive, the heat of my TiSD is quite reasonable, and if I just have to put up with a (fairly) quiet fan on most of the time ..... well, I'm OK with that.

I'd have to say that my PB SD acts exactly the same. Unplug the AC and the right fan goes off...I think you *HEAR* the right fan more because it's more in front of you whereas the rear fan's sound is obscured by the screen and covered up by the right fan. Once the right fan goes off, you can hear the rear fan, even under battery power.

I have to say that in my day of use, I don't mind the fan. This is the coolest G4 laptop I've had temperature wise (I've owned a 550, a 667 DVI, and now this one). And neither fan has yet gotten as loud as my old 550 and DVI PowerBooks...they got the high-pitched screaming noise when they got warm.

Another thing we might all want to consider is what room temperature is. You will notice that using your PowerBook in a warmer room makes the fans run harder and longer. That just goes hand in hand with those Laws of Thermodynamics that have been around for centuries. :-) So for those of you who find your fans kicking into high gear...are you in a closed off, warm room with poor air circulation?

FYI: Mine is a week 48. I really want to hear what week Lok's is!

seanyepez · Dec 14, 2002, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by lokjah:
yeah havent heard it yet.

its been totally silent.

l�k

Sounds like my PowerBook. It's quiet.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 08:44 PM

yeah sure it is if you don't doing any WORK on it !

seanyepez · Dec 14, 2002, 08:47 PM

I've used mine quite extensively now, and no fan has come on yet. My PowerBook is a week 49 model.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 08:48 PM

hmmm so you're saying everyone else here who's fan comes on has a defective powerbook....don't think so

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 08:48 PM

browsing and emailing doesnt count !

seanyepez · Dec 14, 2002, 08:50 PM

Lay off, man. I'm just reporting what I've experienced.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 08:51 PM

why bother when all you're doing is looking at web pages...

no apps installed yet ! duh... it's a powerbook...

seanyepez · Dec 14, 2002, 08:53 PM

Why bother driving a nice car when you're just going from point A to point B, anyway?

Drive from place to place in style and comfort.

hippy · Dec 14, 2002, 08:58 PM

dude i think you're missing the point of this thread...there are some really worried people out there and you're posting completly un-measured findings...thanks!

DVD Plaza · Dec 14, 2002, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by hippy:
It all makes sense to me know...AC charging is bound to introduce alot of additional heat to the system.

How does it make sense to you? You said you don't even have the problem?

Let me say it again - I have my 800DVI and 1GHz SD PowerBooks sitting side by side. NONE of them are charging, the GREEN light is on, and battery status is "Battery charged" on BOTH.

You're saying my 1GHz is somehow charging anyway and is overheating? Doesn't that make the charging circuit in the 1GHz SD INFERIOR to the 800DVI? Why would you design a superfast machine that somehow runs cooler than the older and slower machine, but overheats when it charges the battery? If it's the charging circuit then what you're suggesting could infact be a fault that leads to a fire.

Apple said my problem is NOT normal, that's why it's being replaced. You're saying it's normal for a fast machine, even though the machine stays cooler than the 800DVI, but the charging circuit is overheating even though the charging circuit in the 800DVI had no such problem and the battery isn't even being charged?

Tomster · Dec 14, 2002, 09:44 PM

Powerbook fan resolution!

I started this thread over a week ago in reference to the loud right fan issue I had with my brand new Powerbook. Since then, I sent the laptop back and had it repaired. To anyone with the loud fan issue, the repair is worth it. The right fan is virtually silent now. The fix was that they replaced the motherboard. This created a new problem. The rear fan did not seem to get enough power. It seemed to strain just to spin. Additionally, there was a high pitch electrical whine that kicked in when the rear fan started. Imagine a single fingernail dragged across a chalkboard. I could use my computer for about two minutes before I had to shut it down because the noise drove me nuts.

I took my Powerbook back to an Apple store and explained my situation to the manager. After the genius verified my findings, they replaced my unit right then and there. Fantastic service!

Observations on the new Powerbook.

One dead red pixel. Bummer, but no big deal.

The right fan is on but inaudible. I feel air moving out of it, but I cannot hear it at all.

The rear fan can be heard, but it is a low whirl. Not sure how long it takes to shut off though. I just copied 40 gigs of info back onto my new computer, and the fan has been running the whole time. Hopefully it will shut down after the system cools off.

All in all, I find this computer much quieter than the previous one. I have had a loud Powerbook (week 46 build) and now have a quiet one (week 49 build). I would be happy to clarify anyone's questions in this matter.

Take care.

Tom

photoeditor · Dec 14, 2002, 11:11 PM

I just got my replacement 1GHz (reason for replacement was a case fault, but I have to say the fans did make quite a bit of noise). I've had it on for about 15 minutes, including the registration and powering up the web browser, but have not done the Software Updates yet. I'll keep you posted on how the fans do (none yet). The model it replaced seemed to put the fans on very quickly, with the slightest provocation.

I visited my parents the last couple of days, and used my mother's Toshiba Satellite a little bit; and was reminded of its fan. But what it does is simply run the fan, at a high rate of speed, for about a minute at a time, perhaps every 15 minutes or so of web browser use. Hers is a Pentium III-based model, by the way. That's quite a bit different from what a lot of people, me included, seemed to experience with Powerbooks -- prolonged running of the fan for many minutes.

jmp998 · Dec 15, 2002, 04:24 AM

Regarding the right side (power input area) fan-the argument has been made that there should be no difference in how much this fan runs on the new 1GHz/867MHz models vs. the old 800MHz/667MHz.

But don't forget, the new models take a 65Watt AC adapter-the old ones were 45Watt. This is clearly documented in the Developer Note for the new model. Presumably this is to accomodate the faster processors, DVD-burner, and higher-capacity battery all of which likely require more power than the previous components. Also with the new adapter, recharge time is 3 hours whether the computer is in use or not-on the old model it was 3 hours if asleep/off and 5 hours if in use. The point is just that this model is designed to pull more power than the old one, and the more power a device dissipates the more cooling is required.

I'm not saying the fan is behaving the way it should, or is as quiet as it should be. I'm just speculating that there are probably other changes-maybe a beefier power input board, maybe more aggressive fans needed to keep it cool, that may have required a change.

Personally what I do find disturbing is the variability in fan behavior being reported. I can live with the fans as they are; I understand design compromises and can accept near constant fans if that is the only way Apple could possibly make the design work. However if what seanyepez and others are saying is accurate and some models run both cool and relatively fanless, suggesting that Apple just botched the first few weeks of production, then my powerbook will be making a trip back to Apple for service.

Infinite Loop · Dec 15, 2002, 04:48 AM

I am going to take my PowerBook (48 weeks model) tomorrow to Apple Center. I can live with fan noise but this fan never stops. It's been 6 hours with only chimera running, both fan still running in high speed since 10 min use.

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Tomster:
Powerbook fan resolution!

I started this thread over a week ago in reference to the loud right fan issue I had with my brand new Powerbook. Since then, I sent the laptop back and had it repaired. To anyone with the loud fan issue, the repair is worth it. The right fan is virtually silent now. The fix was that they replaced the motherboard. This created a new problem. The rear fan did not seem to get enough power. It seemed to strain just to spin. Additionally, there was a high pitch electrical whine that kicked in when the rear fan started. Imagine a single fingernail dragged across a chalkboard. I could use my computer for about two minutes before I had to shut it down because the noise drove me nuts.

I took my Powerbook back to an Apple store and explained my situation to the manager. After the genius verified my findings, they replaced my unit right then and there. Fantastic service!

Observations on the new Powerbook.

One dead red pixel. Bummer, but no big deal.

The right fan is on but inaudible. I feel air moving out of it, but I cannot hear it at all.

The rear fan can be heard, but it is a low whirl. Not sure how long it takes to shut off though. I just copied 40 gigs of info back onto my new computer, and the fan has been running the whole time. Hopefully it will shut down after the system cools off.

All in all, I find this computer much quieter than the previous one. I have had a loud Powerbook (week 46 build) and now have a quiet one (week 49 build). I would be happy to clarify anyone's questions in this matter.

Take care.

Tom

That is good news dude. How do you find the new model is when connected to AC. Mine seems to behave as expected when running on Battery, but when connected to AC the right fan seems to be alot more senesitve even when the battery is showing 100% please clarify

Thanks

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by jmp998:
Regarding the right side (power input area) fan-the argument has been made that there should be no difference in how much this fan runs on the new 1GHz/867MHz models vs. the old 800MHz/667MHz.

But don't forget, the new models take a 65Watt AC adapter-the old ones were 45Watt. This is clearly documented in the Developer Note for the new model. Presumably this is to accomodate the faster processors, DVD-burner, and higher-capacity battery all of which likely require more power than the previous components. Also with the new adapter, recharge time is 3 hours whether the computer is in use or not-on the old model it was 3 hours if asleep/off and 5 hours if in use. The point is just that this model is designed to pull more power than the old one, and the more power a device dissipates the more cooling is required.

I'm not saying the fan is behaving the way it should, or is as quiet as it should be. I'm just speculating that there are probably other changes-maybe a beefier power input board, maybe more aggressive fans needed to keep it cool, that may have required a change.

Personally what I do find disturbing is the variability in fan behavior being reported. I can live with the fans as they are; I understand design compromises and can accept near constant fans if that is the only way Apple could possibly make the design work. However if what seanyepez and others are saying is accurate and some models run both cool and relatively fanless, suggesting that Apple just botched the first few weeks of production, then my powerbook will be making a trip back to Apple for service.

I wouldn't take what Sean Yepez is reporting too seriously, He has admitted not having any Applications installed when he reported his PowerBooks fan NEVER comes on. I would like to here from some PowerUsers / Pro who like me use the powerbook as a work tool... If like you say the fans are quiet whilst doing moderate work in say photoshop then I accept my powerbook is faulty but until then I suggest it is normal behaviour based on the power of the machine.....

schwank · Dec 15, 2002, 10:14 AM

Fine

I am a returning student & part time Macintosh laptop tech for a major university.... I got my SD powerbook about 2 weeks ago.... I use it with flash, dreamweaver, photoshop, illustrator, and someday when I set it up Cinema 4d.

I LOVE THIS THING! its Sooooo quiet compared to my 500mhz pismo, Id say the 2nd fan is about as loud as my old hard drive (maybe a little louder). It does seem to come on fairly often, but it will shut off after a bit when Ive stopped doing intensive stuff . Ive been surfing for about 1/2 hour and the second fan just kicked in, but upon inspecting the bottom of the machine, it is pretty warm. After all the heat issues Ive read about in previous powerbooks I completely expected to have the fans running, and accepted this. On my pismo it was a rarity, on the superbook its reality.

30 minutes later that 2nd fan is still running and im not doing much. This is still the nicest Mac Ive owned.

wilburguy · Dec 15, 2002, 10:45 AM

Ok Boys, Knock it off! We're trying to help each other. Personally, I'm psyched that there is a fix for the right side noisy fan issue. maybe i don't have to sell mine!

Let's review. The problem is a fan, on the right by the power switch/adapter plug, that comes on LOUD under little or no load and stays on for a very long time. We are not talking about the multispeed fan in the back that comes on and off relative to CPU useage. The problem seems to be most prominent when the power adapter is plugged in, charging or not, and tends to go away when the power adapter is unplugged.

The right side fan is not merely audible, it is loud enough to be heard from another room. Loud enough to startle my wife in the kitchen when my PowerBook is in the living room. Loud enough to interrupt normal conversation in the room.

The problem is that right side fan will kick on loud when mail.app is merely open and and you are surfing the web with IE.

Both of these apps are part of the MAC OS and therefore, no other apps need be installed for the right side fan problem to be observed. I noticed my fan noise before I installed any apps, just like Seanypez.

Hippy, if you do not have a right side fan that turns on really loud when only web browsing, you do not have the problem we have been discussing. if you are still unsure about whether your new PowerBook has a problem or not, I would suggest doing what we with the problem have already done; send it back to Apple tech for evaluation/repair.

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 10:51 AM

i am going to phone them tomorrow and ask for a replacement I am not going to accept a 1st batch powerbook knowing now that the manufacturing process has changed. It is NOT aceptable.

photoeditor · Dec 15, 2002, 11:11 AM

My replacement 1GHz combo book seems to have the fan issue in the same way that the previous one did. It took about a half an hour to switch on with browsing for the center fan to come on, but once on it didn't want to switch off.

And now, reinstalling the system software to allow for disk partitioning, there's plenty of fan noise from both the right and the center. (of course, this is about as high as power usage gets, but still . . . a PC laptop makes a lot of noise for a minute or two, and then keeps quiet for a while -- this keeps going on and on).

It's kind of silly really because it isn't as though the computer is getting especially hot. In its own way the laptop is as loud as my G4/Digital Audio 466 tower.

This is a week 50 Powerbook.

Any advice, beyond giving it another day and seeing how it goes in regular use? This is Powerbook number 3 (the first was DOA, the second had a case defect, and, if this forum is anything to go by, probably a fan defect too, and now number three is as loud as number two).

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by photoeditor:
My replacement 1GHz combo book seems to have the fan issue in the same way that the previous one did. It took about a half an hour to switch on with browsing for the center fan to come on, but once on it didn't want to switch off.

And now, reinstalling the system software to allow for disk partitioning, there's plenty of fan noise from both the right and the center. (of course, this is about as high as power usage gets, but still . . . a PC laptop makes a lot of noise for a minute or two, and then keeps quiet for a while -- this keeps going on and on).

It's kind of silly really because it isn't as though the computer is getting especially hot. In its own way the laptop is as loud as my G4/Digital Audio 466 tower.

This is a week 50 Powerbook.

Any advice, beyond giving it another day and seeing how it goes in regular use? This is Powerbook number 3 (the first was DOA, the second had a case defect, and, if this forum is anything to go by, probably a fan defect too, and now number three is as loud as number two).

week 50 is that after the 6th Dec ????

I'd send it back like I am about to, as more and more reports of silent PB's come in I am becoming less satisfied with mine.... it sucks !

dajay · Dec 15, 2002, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by hippy:
i am going to phone them tomorrow and ask for a replacement I am not going to accept a 1st batch powerbook knowing now that the manufacturing process has changed. It is NOT aceptable.

Hippy, you seriously need to chill out. Nobody knows about a change in production for sure. We are not engineers with Apple, so what are you talking about?

Please stop asking everybody if you have the fan problem or not. We can't help you. If you are not sure about having a defective fan, than you probably don't have one. Otherwise take it to a dealer and compare the machines side by side or if it bothers you so much, just sell your PowerBook.

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by dajay:

Hippy, you seriously need to chill out. Nobody knows about a change in production for sure. We are not engineers with Apple, so what are you talking about?

Please stop asking everybody if you have the fan problem or not. We can't help you. If you are not sure about having a defective fan, than you probably don't have one. Otherwise take it to a dealer and compare the machines side by side or if it bothers you so much, just sell your PowerBook.

mmm Thanks for your help/concern I thought the whole point of boards like this is to air your problems/concerns....oh well last piece of knowledge I'll share here !

and call me old fashioned but I think �3000 is alot of money to spend on something that may or may not be defective I am only trying to find out a definative answer which noboby on this board seems able to provide....

I just hate the attitude mine's OK stop moaning....i

photoeditor · Dec 15, 2002, 01:15 PM

OK -- an update. I was on the phone with Apple Tech Support for almost an hour (this with a real live rep, not on hold at all), working through the fan, and it wouldn't shut off and it wouldn't shut off, no matter how little I was doing on the computer (which was nothing at all), and finally she had me reset the Power Management key on the logic board. Rebooted, finally no fan. But within just a few minutes of doing nothing, (with AC power, of course), it is back on again.

So, is virtually mandatory running of the right side fan with AC power a bug or a feature? That's the big question. The computer exhibits more normal behavior when on battery. [note processor is set to highest performance on both battery and AC at the moment; I want to see what 1GHz on a Mac is actually like).

(out comes the AC power cord, let's see if that helps)

Now, I head into the process of eliminating all other possible sources of trouble and heat (cycling the battery a couple of times, using Airport instead of Ethernet) and finishing up with configuring the computer (installations of software etc) and see what happens next. Over and out for a few days.

As I finish this message, which I am writing on my PowerMac tower, the right-side laptop fan switches off, and the computer goes to sleep, less than two minutes after I disconnected the AC power. I wake it back out of sleep, and no fan.

Sorry for all the detail, but if we are to determine whether this is a bug or a feature, we need to control for all possible variances (e.g. in hearing, type of surface we're using the computer on etc).

And yes, by definition a week 50 model would have to be after December 6; Dec. 6 is three and a half weeks before the end of the year, so I would assume that safely covers weeks 50, 51 and 52.

The only other thing I can say is that this is one of the coolest running laptops I've seen in a long time. The power key never gets more than lukewarm to the touch, the top side of the computer is substantially cooler than the iBook, the underside gets warm but not hot; and I suspect it could even put the"lap" back into laptop. But I'll wait on that one for a few more days.

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 01:23 PM

I have been doing very simple flash work all afternoon whilst plugged into the AC. The right side fan has been ON constantly and will only stop if I physically leave the laptop for 15mins. This behaviour IS NOT CORRECT others report minimal fan usuage. So mine is going back to Apple tomorrow.

DVD Plaza · Dec 15, 2002, 06:31 PM

A number of people in Apple's support forums have had their fan problem FIXED - they all report a replacement motherboard is what did the trick.

So it's a fault in the circuitry after all, not the fan itself.

So I wonder which week number the problem was fixed in, so that I know my replacement (when it arrives) has the fix.

seanyepez · Dec 15, 2002, 06:34 PM

It's strange that Apple's willing to do the fan fix for so many people.

They're usually very stingy about fixing "cosmetic" problems.

hippy · Dec 15, 2002, 06:37 PM

this is good news, I'm phoning first thing in the morning...

DVD Plaza · Dec 15, 2002, 07:16 PM

But if you read through Apple's support forums you see that people have had all end of hell getting Apple to listen to them or even getting them to look at the machine (I had the same problem when I phoned AppleCare about it), let alone whether or not Apple confirm or deny hearing the problem when they get the machine - only been a handful that have managed to get it repaired.

On the otherhand if, like me, you report the problem to place of purchase within 10 days then it'll be DOA'd so that you get a new one instead of a fixed one.

As someone who only "switched back" to the Mac this year, purely because of OSX and the PowerBook (both awesome innovations), and the 1GHz SD is already my second machine (ie I've already spent a lot of money since switching) I am very very very disappointed at the way Apple have handled this situation. You really do have to hear the noisy PowerBook's to understand how big the problem is and I am disgusted at how the problem is being sorted out (or more to the point, lack there of). I've been administrating/developing/supporting PCs all my life and continue to do so, and have never ever had this kind of trouble with PC gear (infact only problem I can recall period is an NEC notebook years back whose trackpad would go faulty, BUT NEC did keep replacing it without question even though it would keep failing again months later). My (only recent) confidence in Apple has taken a serious blow.

photoeditor · Dec 15, 2002, 11:10 PM

Nope, this is hopeless. The fan on my third 1GHz Powerbook (number 1 was DOA and number two had a case defect, for those new to the thread) runs all the time with AC power into the computer. And, to make matters worse, it has suddenly started making an obnoxious grinding/chattering sound similar to the noise locusts or crickets make. For fear of damaging the computer, I have had to switch it off. So as soon as AppleCare opens in the morning, I'll be wasting yet more time trying to resolve this ridiculous problem. My patience is at an end. This is make or break for Apple for me.

wilburguy · Dec 16, 2002, 08:38 AM

attn Lokjah, Tomster!
How are you making out with your replacement PBs?

CyberPet · Dec 16, 2002, 10:57 AM

Something really weird happend to me yesterday and today.

Yesterday:
A friend of mine is working for an Apple Center so he promised me to take in the Powerbook for a check up today in the morning. He played with my machine a bit at home last night and called and said that he couldn't hear the fan!

That totally shocked me, but after calming myself down a bit (I was a bit upset) I relized that he's using a PowerBook 667 MHz which is alot louder than the 1 GHz fan and what he thought was the first fan kicking is was probably the "turbo" fan kicking in - like I've heard it all the time. When I commented on that he said nothing, so I asume I'm right.

I'm waiting to hear from him later today or tormorrow about what the technician found out.

Today:
My answering machine picked up a call from Apple Support, a girl calling and asking if I did notice any cosmetical problems, like scratches etc, on my machine when it arrived from the factory.

I've tried to call back to talk to the same girl, but she was busy in a meeting, so all I could do was to report to the guy that actually answered the phone that the PowerBook looked like mint condition when I got it, with no scratches.

I'm going to call back again to see if I can get hold of that girl again since that question really did puzzle me. What are they up to??!!

Tomster · Dec 16, 2002, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by hippy:

That is good news dude. How do you find the new model is when connected to AC. Mine seems to behave as expected when running on Battery, but when connected to AC the right fan seems to be alot more senesitve even when the battery is showing 100% please clarify

Thanks

The new model runs the right fan pretty much constantly when plugged in. That's not too bad because the fan is now quiet. Before, the fan was LOUD. The air coming out now is warm whereas the air before was cool. When unplugged, the rear fan comes on instead of the right. I think the rear is a bit louder than the right. Again, the air is warm when blowing out. Does it shut off? I do not know. I haven't idled the machine to test it yet. I am just glad of the relative silence.

One general observation. There is a lot less air moving now. Before, there was a good breeze coming out of both fan slots. Right now, the flow of air is lower.

hippy · Dec 17, 2002, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Tomster:

The new model runs the right fan pretty much constantly when plugged in. That's not too bad because the fan is now quiet. Before, the fan was LOUD. The air coming out now is warm whereas the air before was cool. When unplugged, the rear fan comes on instead of the right. I think the rear is a bit louder than the right. Again, the air is warm when blowing out. Does it shut off? I do not know. I haven't idled the machine to test it yet. I am just glad of the relative silence.

One general observation. There is a lot less air moving now. Before, there was a good breeze coming out of both fan slots. Right now, the flow of air is lower.

even whilst only doing light work ?

kerl · Dec 17, 2002, 05:45 AM

An update about my case:

I got the box back from Apple this morning: It's sealed and marked as DOA (dead on arrival). With this box I can now walk in any Apple reseller store in the area to get a similar machine.
I don't know wether this procedure is similar in other countries, at least in Switzerland it seems to be like this. The good thing about this is that I can look for a store now where I can test the new machine for dead pixels, case failures, fan and paint problems before I take it with me.

To state it again: The fan issue with my machine was exactly like a lot of users explained it in this forum. Permanent and loud right-side fan (more on AC, but even with battery quite often) and very often the center fan, even on moderate or low usage (web and mail).

It's interesting that this machine was marked DOA by apple without any questions / discussions. So either they officially know about the problem and are willing to change machines, or it was not directly tested by apple but an apple certified company that didn't see so many new titaniums (or even none: it took a month or so until we got the first machines over here).

Now I hope that there is some store nearby with a nice machine waiting for me

Troll · Dec 17, 2002, 09:04 AM

How long did you guys wait while Apple looked at your machines?

kerl · Dec 17, 2002, 09:48 AM

They came to pick it up last friday and sent it back today (tuesday).

But I got them wrong: As I bought it in the AppleStore, i can only change it there. So what's happening now is that they are sending a new machine from Taiwan while they come and pick up the other.

I just hope they hurry a little. This whole issue took me more than enougth time. Especially the phone support was quite bad most of the time. All in all I'm quite disappointed by the lack of good service, but of course it's not really better for the rest of the IT world. My brother just right now has huge problems with HP and a printer that doesn't work under OS X 10.2...

This is all kind of sad somehow, it could be done so much better. And then we could all concentrate on more important things instead of being distracted by faulty machines and being so much dependent on a company and their products.

PoisonTooth · Dec 17, 2002, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by hippy:
i am going to phone them tomorrow and ask for a replacement I am not going to accept a 1st batch powerbook knowing now that the manufacturing process has changed. It is NOT aceptable.

Um, the process will change again, and you'll be behind the curve just the same.

Before you get too militant, you might want to prepare to answer the question of WHY you bought a bleeding-edge model -- one devoid of media reviews or any real chatroom discussion -- in the first place.

Not trying to be harsh, but give the "this is NOT acceptable" schpiel a rest. Nobody had a gun to your head when you plunked down the cash for your TiBook. Eary adopters always take a chance, and this is no exception.

murbot · Dec 17, 2002, 10:32 AM

I really feel for you guys with the problems. I'm sitting here (on battery mind you) listening to iTunes, surfing, just did some writing in Word, and I made some changes to an ad in Illustrator (after mucking around with a photo in Photoshop) and I'm thinking "come ON fan... you there?"

My fan almost never comes on unless in on AC. Even when charging though, it will shut off after a few minutes if I'm not doing anything. And they are pretty quiet. I can't imagine the fans being on all the time and loud!

Mine is even a week 46 machine. Hmm... just lucky I guess. I'm glad some of you are having them replaced by Apple - that's nice to see. It's a lot of dough to lay out, only to be angry with your machine.

Damn this computer kicks butt.

hippy · Dec 17, 2002, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:

Um, the process will change again, and you'll be behind the curve just the same.

Before you get too militant, you might want to prepare to answer the question of WHY you bought a bleeding-edge model -- one devoid of media reviews or any real chatroom discussion -- in the first place.

Not trying to be harsh, but give the "this is NOT acceptable" schpiel a rest. Nobody had a gun to your head when you plunked down the cash for your TiBook. Eary adopters always take a chance, and this is no exception.

So you think it IS acceptable for Apple to quietly fix reasonably major bugs without offering existing customers any support or feedback???? I dont....