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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Calling all Powerbook/Laptop Musicians

Calling all Powerbook/Laptop Musicians
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form.aat
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Dec 17, 2002, 04:43 AM
 
Hello,

I would really like to know who on this board makes music with his/her Powerbook!
Please feel free to post what music you're doing, and if you're using the Powerbooks

a) for on-site multitrack recording
b) as a desktop replacement for your studio
c) as a desktop replacement for film scoring
d) live on stage w/ real-time triggering/manipulation of sounds

As I'm planning on purchasing a laptop for music (not sure yet if PC or Mac), I would certainly appreciate all tips/info on how well music apps work on the PB with regards to performance. Would an iBook be more suitable?

I'm using Logic Audio, Ableton Live, Native Instruments Reaktor and various other VST instruments.

Thanks very much indeed. ;-)

Regards,
form.aat

PS If you wish to receive information about my music and where I play once I've got the laptop, feel free to email me at [email protected]
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
azark
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Dec 17, 2002, 07:35 AM
 
Hi,

I use my PB to make music, but maybe not in the way you want to.

I have a Digidesign Mbox and a midisport midi interface.
I don't use ProTools to record, but for editing what I've recorded in a studio. I use Cubase with various softsynth and soft sampler (NI Battery, Pro53, B4, Kontakt, PPG Wave, etc.). I'm very pleased with it. Basically I have a backpack workstation for composing, bring all my work to record it in studio, then take it back for editing. I needed ProTools as it's the standard platform in all the studios where I work + It's the better editing solution for me and I know it very well.

If you want to record more than 2 tracks, the Mbox is not the solution, you should look at emagic interfaces if you use logic (or motu, etc.), or go with an external Magma chassis for ProTools.

A annoying thing was that the Mbox and the midisport used the 2 USB ports, so I was unable to use a mouse. I found the Dr Bott T3Hub, a semi-powered usb hub and that did the trick. Check it at Dr Bott

About the PC/Mac I can't help you as I'm totally biased. I never ever thought of buying a PC laptop. Everytime I had to use a PC in studio I had problems. With the studios high prices, you quickly save the price difference. And to rely on a solid system is worth the power difference for me.(Imagine 4 people looking at you and waiting for your system to work while the 120$ hours fly...)
I don't want to argue about this, it's just my experience and I won't switch to PC anyway.;-)

The most annoying thing for now is that i'm stuck in OS 9 for audio work while being more and more used to OS X for the rest. But this should end sooner or later.

About the fan noise, when you consider all the equipment that my PB replaces, it's quite silent.

If you have more specific questions...

Good luck.
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geetoo
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Dec 17, 2002, 08:39 AM
 
You may like to try this article here http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutor...op/laptop1.asp
     
Troll
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Dec 17, 2002, 08:59 AM
 
I was reading the Reason manual a few days ago. They talk about latency under OSX, OS9 and Windows. Basically, most PC's suck unless you spend a lot of money on a specialised sound card. A standard iMac running OSX has virtually no latency at all. Even under OS9, the latency problem is significantly less serious than under Windows. Also interesting was the fact that they had 2 lines of instructions for setting up most things on the Mac and then 4 or 5 pages of setup for Windows. With Apple having bought eMagic, I think the Mac platform is the place to be for music right now. If Apple does for Music what they did for video, you'll be very glad to have a Mac in your hands.
     
Commodus
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Dec 17, 2002, 11:12 AM
 
I'm not a musician, but it's quite clear that there's actually a fairly large chunk of "Powerbook DJs" who not only compose their music on a Powerbook (usually a G4), they often use it as part of a live set. Usually it's the more experimental electronic artists, of course. For them a turntable or a live band won't do much.

There are also a number of well-known artists who compose at least some of their music on a Powerbook, and some of them will use them as an accompaniment to their main equipment onstage. I know that Bjork made most of "Vespertine" (latest album) on hers. Underworld has been using them as well, and even brings them onstage - though they're out of the way, and the mixing deck takes precedence (that and the frenetic dancing of Karl).

If you want an even better example of how many musicians use Powerbooks in part or in all of their creation process, look no further than BT (Brian Transeau): he was in the video Apple made to introduce the Powerbook G4!
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 18, 2002, 03:24 PM
 
thanx guys for your insight.... it's a really hard decision, and not for the money but purely for "capability" or "performance" issues (How dreaded this word is....for a musical instrument anyway)

But performance of the Mac OS 9 AND X version of Ableton Live is so bad that it can hardly be called a functioning software - obviously, they're aiming at fixing that but it's always the "It'll work eventually, but we don't know yet when" game.....

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Troll
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Dec 18, 2002, 03:54 PM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
thanx guys for your insight.... it's a really hard decision, and not for the money but purely for "capability" or "performance" issues (How dreaded this word is....for a musical instrument anyway)

But performance of the Mac OS 9 AND X version of Ableton Live is so bad that it can hardly be called a functioning software - obviously, they're aiming at fixing that but it's always the "It'll work eventually, but we don't know yet when" game.....

form.aat
Who told you that Ableton Live is hardly functioning software on a Mac?? I've never used it on a PC but it works absolutely fine on my PowerBook under OSX

Are you saying that PC's perform better than Macs? If so, what is that based on? Have you used a Mac? I'll tell you my 1GHz Dell is outclassed by my 400MHz iMac DV. I can get far more done on the Mac in a short space of time. Multitasking in OSX is streaks ahead of Windows. Certainly in video, music and graphics applications, the Mac is as fast, if not faster than the fastest PC laptops.
( Last edited by Troll; Dec 18, 2002 at 04:05 PM. )
     
dialo
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Dec 18, 2002, 04:17 PM
 
Ableton performs horribly on macs compared to PCs. I'm pretty sure it doesn't support altivec, but the porting of the code is also blamed.

PCs outperform Apple computers. Period. Especially in audio and video. There are tons of benchmarks in these areas showing apples getting juiced. I just bought a Ghz powerbook, but the fact remains that it won't give me the raw performance that a modern PC would.

But I don't base my computer purchases solely on performance. The Ghz tibook gives me more than enough power to work in Logic Audio with tons of softsynths, so I am happy.

I use the car analogy. I would rather have a comfortable, luxurious car that goes 150 mph than a bare-bones race car that goes 190. Hell, they both go faster than the speed limit, so I won't be using all of that power all the time.

This doesn't mean I am not a, for lack of a less moronic term, "power user." I work primarily in audio and video, and definitely tax my machine constantly.

And, BTW, I've been using a ti500 for the past year and the ghz only performs 50% faster using Logic. But considering the ti500 was just shy of the power I wanted, the Ghz powerbook is more than sufficient.
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 18, 2002, 04:35 PM
 
yes Troll, I was set to buy a Powerbook... drove 6+ hours to pick it up from a special audio Mac guy.... all was well, we installed and checked everything, he showed me a few things as I am new to Mac, I was set to buy a Motu 828 audio interface and FW HD from him too...

Then I tried a PC Live file of mine, to make sure the Mac can read it.. and it overloaded immediately, the performance was almost as bad as on my PC 600 Mhz., well not quite but it was horrifying because my machine is 3 years old now, and the PB is brand new.

Well, the audio dealer's jaw dropped to the floor as well, he couldn't believe it.. so he sent my song file to Ableton in Berlin for clarification...

I left the powerbook at the dealer's and headed home, another tiring 6 hour ride but was glad I hadn't bought it....

The bottom line from Ableton was: Mac optimization is top priority, but "will take a long time"
So: Yes I've "sort of" used Macs, and am actually still willing to switch for the ease of use etc,


So can you see my dilemma? Live is an important part of what I do and especially of what I want to do live, you see... it's not at all about which platform is better.

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
dialo
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Dec 18, 2002, 06:14 PM
 
form.aat, you should just use max/msp or pure data. It wouldn't be hard (other than getting over the initial hump) to make something just like live..and then some. You will have much more control over what you are doing and won't be held hostage by ableton in terms of support, performance, interface and, above all, FEATURES. What Live does is just a tiny part of what you would be able to do with either of these max variants.

Hell, you might actually be able to create a Logic environment that does exactly what Live does. And you would get so much more bang for your buck! (and no performance problems with either max--including PD--or Logic).
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 18, 2002, 07:12 PM
 
dialo,

this is a cool idea. But I am the type who has a hard time understaning Reaktor, do you think I would grasp Max? Is it Cycling74?
I would love to try it if it isn't too much programming...
I've read that Aphex Twin is using patches too.

Otherwise, I'm really not sure what to do: Live with Live's performance until they fix it or go PC (which always has that uncertainty factor of not knowing if it's going to work)

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
mh0ffmann
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Dec 18, 2002, 07:18 PM
 
Look at www.osxaudio.com for much info on using MacOS X for musical applications. It reviews new software and has a forums section not unlike this one but directed at musicians.

WRT the PC/Mac debate, yes, I am biased, but the vast majority of the insutry and most serious musicians use Macs. The software/hardware combination is just plain better for realtime apps such as music. Check out Digital Performer, Logic, etc.

Mark
MacBookPro 15" / 2.16 GHz / 100 GB 7200 RPM / 1 Gb
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AxelFonze
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Dec 18, 2002, 07:23 PM
 
I use my new powerbook as a part of my setup, primarily for sequencing and compsing, and a little bit of multi track recording. I do my composing in finale 2003, and sequencing and recording in digital performer, with a motu 828 and a roland vs2480. So far, it has lived up to all of my expectations. I still have a pc in the chain for gigastudio and kontakt, so it's basically a sampler. The powerbook isn't quite as speedy as my custom built athlon xp1800 (I wouldn't expect any laptop to be), but's it's atleast as fast or faster than other sub-2ghz pc laptops I've used. I haven't used live, but I know other musicians that do, and I haven't heard of it performing horribly. I think that the powerbook is the way to go,especially if you are using logic for alot of stuff (as apple recently purchased emagic). You will have more flexability in the audio world with a mac than you would with a PC. If money is not a concern, get the powerbook and build (or have someone build you) a cheap ($7-800) pc. If you shop around a great performing pc can be had for less than $800. http://www.pricewatch.com is the best place I've found for pc components and other electronics (including apple components). It's not a store, but a listing of prices from independant dealers. You would be surprised how little pc components actually cost, like an athlonxp cpu for $87. and there are maybe 15 dealers offering it for around that price. add $200 for a gig of ddr ram, $80 for a decent motherboard, $100 for a video card, $150 for a big hard drive, $65 for a 52x24x52 cd burner, and $100 for a case, keyboard, mouse, etc., and you have a fast pc ready for whatever you need. You can pick the sound card that's right for you and you're set. That's about $800 for a pc that can blaze through almost everything you throw at it. Add an Aardvark sound card and you have a great computer that will do whatever your powerbook can't for about $1200. That's the reason that I won't totally switch to apple. You can have both for little more than $4000, and you don't have to live with the setbacks of either platform. The only problem is that the more you use osx, the less you will want to use windows. So go with both and you can't lose.
"Somebody set us up the bomb"
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 18, 2002, 07:24 PM
 
Yes I am aware of the fact that most studios use Macs...... simply because they always have... The situation has changed however as expert configured PCs for music (there's several companies here in Germany who do this, such as A-E-W) are just as stable and better performing as well as cheaper, according to German Keyboard Magazine. The laptop issue is different though because on PC, there are much more pitfalls when choosing one...

Thank you for the Macosx link - have been browsing it regularly already ;-)

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Dignan
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Dec 18, 2002, 10:36 PM
 
Hi, first post here...

I just wanted to chime in as an ameteur musician (currently my home studio is a Boss drum machine, an Oxygen 8 controller, and some free version of some softsynth - I used to study piano pretty hardcore, then pulled away to concentrate on school, and now that I have joined the real world, have started to relearn music as a hobby).

What made me really become interested in music again was seeing Chris Vrenna (of Nine Inch Nails and the fabulous Tweaker) give a little lecture about ProTools and Macs at the local Mac store. He was incredibly interesting and really inspiring. Actually, this got me interested in Macs again - (my last Mac was IIsi - circa 1990).

Oh well...just a quick first post.

Love the forum, been cruising here for a while getting info on Powerbooks. Pretty much settled on the Powerbook, although I have imac 17" and dual 1.25 days as well. Going to wait till after christmas I think though...
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azark
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Dec 19, 2002, 02:28 AM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
Yes I am aware of the fact that most studios use Macs...... simply because they always have...
No, because it's the best audio workstation. Studio owners/sound engineers have no time to spend with drivers, etc.
As a Producer/sound engineer, I simply refuse to work on a PC. So if they want me to work in (or rent) their studio they better have macs, or I go elsewhere.


Originally posted by form.aat:
The situation has changed however as expert configured PCs for music (there's several companies here in Germany who do this, such as A-E-W) are just as stable and better performing as well as cheaper, according to German Keyboard Magazine.
Compared to the total investment made in a high end studio facility, there's almost no difference between mac and PC.
So why would they switch the wrong way?
And why would I need so called experts to configure a PC when I can configure a mac myself?
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form.aat  (op)
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Dec 19, 2002, 04:00 AM
 
azark wrote:
And why would I need so called experts to configure a PC when I can configure a mac myself?


... Is it really THAT easy? In case of problems I mean.... or have you been at it for a long time and spent some time learning?

What's your take on Apple's OSX-only policy - do you think it will still be possible to install OS 9 on a Mac bought in January? If I get a Ti, I would want to wait until after Macworld just in case they are slightly updated--- even though I know that the new ones are barely a month old.

Well the reason for getting a PC desktop system is still the price:
I don'T know about Belgium, but here (in Germany), a mid-priced Mac costs around 3000 Euro while a top-of-the-line audio PC is 1600 Euro at most... so is that a difference or is it?

It's certainly a different story with laptops, but the speed/performance lag of PBs worries me - in Ableton Live.

I certainly respect and can relate to your personal preference, but as I'm not leaning towards a specific platform (though I'm using a PC now), I just want a capable solution for Live, LOgic, Reaktor and miscellaneous VST instruments.

Thanx for your time and information!
form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Troll
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Dec 19, 2002, 05:51 AM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
yes Troll, I was set to buy a Powerbook... drove 6+ hours to pick it up from a special audio Mac guy.... all was well, we installed and checked everything, he showed me a few things as I am new to Mac, I was set to buy a Motu 828 audio interface and FW HD from him too...

Then I tried a PC Live file of mine, to make sure the Mac can read it.. and it overloaded immediately, the performance was almost as bad as on my PC 600 Mhz., well not quite but it was horrifying because my machine is 3 years old now, and the PB is brand new.

Well, the audio dealer's jaw dropped to the floor as well, he couldn't believe it.. so he sent my song file to Ableton in Berlin for clarification...

I left the powerbook at the dealer's and headed home, another tiring 6 hour ride but was glad I hadn't bought it....

The bottom line from Ableton was: Mac optimization is top priority, but "will take a long time"
So: Yes I've "sort of" used Macs, and am actually still willing to switch for the ease of use etc,


So can you see my dilemma? Live is an important part of what I do and especially of what I want to do live, you see... it's not at all about which platform is better.

form.aat
Okay, I take the point. Clearly you are using Live in a way that I never have. If you're doing something that intensive, shouldn't you be looking at Digital Performer, Pro-Tools or Logic though? The fact that one piece of software doesn't work well on the Mac doesn't mean the Mac as a platform is bad and the fact that you're worried about learning new software shows how terrorised you are by PC's!

When I talk about the performance of my Mac being better than my PC, I'm not talking about benchmarks. I'm more productive on my Mac, because I don't have to fight with my Mac, it never crashes, I don't have to worry about drivers, I don't have to read manuals to work out how anything works, I don't have one program slowing the whole system down. The whole experience is more intuitive. My name is Troll and I'm ... (Apple Switch logo scrolls in from the right)

You seem to be comparing the PowerBook to desktop PC's though. Are you saying you can get a PC laptop with Firewire, DVD-RAM, Gigabit Ethernet etc. for $1600? I don't think so. Compare apples with apples (s'cuse the pun). The iMac will do you fine for Music production too if you want a desktop.

Look, I learned the hard way. I bought a PC, bought a whole bunch of extra components (sound card, DVD etc) found that Windows 2000 couldn't work with half of them, Windows 98 was unreliable, the DVD player wasn't compatible with the sound card under certain applications, the fans were too loud for the PC to be in the studio, the replacement fans were expensive and inefficient ... I spent the better part of 18 months (and a fair amount of extra cash) fiddling to get it to work and even then I had oodles of latency and unreliable software (mostly the OS). I got an iMac (G3), took it out of the box, had it set up with a mixing desk plugged in and Cubase running in 10 minutes. Apart from the fact that the Mac is easier to use, there are huge benefits to buying something that is put together by one manufacturer.

A lot of my friends who aren't musicians go through the same thing you are and I tell them to get a PC. If they're that argumentative about it, then I'd rather they just stick with what they know because at least they won't blame me when the exe their friend sent in a chain letter won't open! But you're a musician and for you the benefits of moving to the Mac are greater. Look, there's a reason why almost all serious musicians use Macs. It's not because they are in studios - a lot of musicians have their own studios and still use Macs - I think it's because Macs think like musicians. Here's a challenge - why don't you send us a list of serious musicians that use PC's and I guarantee we'll find three Mac users for every one you find.
     
azark
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Dec 19, 2002, 10:33 AM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:



... Is it really THAT easy? In case of problems I mean.... or have you been at it for a long time and spent some time learning?

What's your take on Apple's OSX-only policy - do you think it will still be possible to install OS 9 on a Mac bought in January? If I get a Ti, I would want to wait until after Macworld just in case they are slightly updated--- even though I know that the new ones are barely a month old.

Well the reason for getting a PC desktop system is still the price:
I don'T know about Belgium, but here (in Germany), a mid-priced Mac costs around 3000 Euro while a top-of-the-line audio PC is 1600 Euro at most... so is that a difference or is it?

It's certainly a different story with laptops, but the speed/performance lag of PBs worries me - in Ableton Live.

I certainly respect and can relate to your personal preference, but as I'm not leaning towards a specific platform (though I'm using a PC now), I just want a capable solution for Live, LOgic, Reaktor and miscellaneous VST instruments.

Thanx for your time and information!
form.aat
Ok... I won't say you'll never have any problem with a mac. You can't expect a machine which is a 24 track recorder+ 10 synths+ midi sequencer+ your office, etc. to be as easy as a toaster! And yes I worked on mac for 10 years, so what is easy to me can be hard for a "newbie". But all the people around me using macs can go trough most of the problems themself, even the less "technical" ones, and when they have problems, I can help them in 5 min on the phone. If you're a bit used to computer it would be really easier than a PC.

I read that Apple will still allow OS9 booting on some 2003 models, but I'm not Steve's friend so...

Powerbooks won't be upgraded at macworld FOR SURE.

The prices are the same in Belgium than Germany (slightly higher in fact!). For 3000� you can have the 867, I agree is not really "mid-priced" but it's a high end laptop for sure, even if it's not the highest model. They are not cheap but they will never "feel cheap".

About Ableton Live, why do you want to use this soft? What are it's big advantages? I never used it, but I now a lot of solutions that seems more serious (ProTools, Cubase, Logic...) + I looked at their site and this soft looks really horrible. So why exactly are you stuck with this app?
I just saw that you're using Logic. Logic is Apple now and there won't be new versions for Windows....This might be a thing to consider too.
What does Live do that Logic can't?

I totally agree with Troll: "Macs think like musicians".
English is not my language and I can't explain things better that he did in its post. So make your own choice!
But I know why I and almost all musicians around me use mac and it's not only "personnal preferences".
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form.aat  (op)
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Dec 19, 2002, 10:59 AM
 
No, I don't mean to imply that it is all bad, in fact, I want to see it as ALL GOOD so I can order the PB despite by negative experience! That's why I went to the dealer's in the first place, cash in hand! Lots of stuff I tried out ran lovely on that machine, so there you go...

Well Troll, I didn't really tax it that much with Live... it was 12 or 13 clips simultaneously with a few compressors (~8), 2 autofilters and one reverb on the send. The dealer then tried it with TC plugins, which worked much better, but I don't really want to work with workarounds from the day I get a new machine..... He also tried it in Logic (same No. of tracks and plugs) and the CPU meter was at 20 to 25 percent, so clearly it's a Live issue. But I get a laptop to play live, and for that I'm planning to run this software. I know I could use Logic - but then this entire discussion would be useless ---- Ableton is definitely ideal for that kind of stuff, and I recently saw Jan Jelinek perform on it in Berlin (on an old G3 Powerbook btw)

My price comparison was for desktop systems - and 3000 versus 1600 (specialist audio retailer) is not to be sneezed at - but a decent PC laptop is from 2200 Euro upwards - so it is about the same price range really, but with a lot more horsepower, at least for Live. I just recently met a very fine musician who does everything on his Sony laptop - with an RME PCMCIA card and Live and Cubase - lovely.

I'm not really satisfied with Windows either (using 98 SE), but it works OK - if you have it configured by an audio specialist, you can expect it to work as flawlessly as OSX. That was my point. It's different for laptops, because you cannot really predict what's going to work or if it's going to work at all.

In closing, I would like to accept the challenge. Here are three: Hans Zimmer (uses about ten PCs for Gigastudio), Richard Devine (live act who uses - now get this - two laptops on stage: one PC and one PB!!!) and guitarist David Torn. All of these also use Macs. so you only need to find six more!

Cheers,
form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 19, 2002, 11:20 AM
 
azark,

OS9 booting will not continue on PB models, that's for sure. But what I would like to know is: Will it be possible to INSTALL OS9 on these machines from a friend's CD or will some physical / software device be built in to prevent one from doing so?

Ableton is great for playing loops and manipulating sound in real time, in fact, for improvising arrangements to a degree - so you can decide spontaneously how long a part willl be, when which of the instruments drop in and out etc as well as stretching and detuning audio in real time!.
... Really good and not nasty-looking at all, in my opinion. So it's not a sequencer like the ones you mentioned but rather a sophisticated looping software. Logic has a similar feature in fact: Touch Tracks. But it doesn't work with audio files, only with sequences

I also wrote a review of it (that's why I got a free copy ) at www.memi.com (in German) and though it to be a really brilliant, intuitive tool.

So I reckon you get all you need on your PB, right? --- Do you by any chance compose/record music for film (with Logic's own movie player)? --- This is one thing I would also like to do on that machine in addition to live and studio work.

Cheers,
form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Troll
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Dec 19, 2002, 12:39 PM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
In closing, I would like to accept the challenge. Here are three: Hans Zimmer (uses about ten PCs for Gigastudio), Richard Devine (live act who uses - now get this - two laptops on stage: one PC and one PB!!!) and guitarist David Torn. All of these also use Macs. so you only need to find six more!
Okay, just for fun ... never mind 6 ... I found 66 for you! I'm sure there are many more. Might be quicker to compile a list of musicians that use PC's! Why don't other users chime in here - develop THE definitive list. Here are the ones I found. Some from
here and here. Also check out this list

1) Neil Finn (check his website - you can see Pro Tools running on a G4 in the Background of his home studio)
2) Travis (check the liner notes of the new CD, you'll see a few TiBooks lying on the studio floor)
3) Marilyn Manson
4) Bjork
5) Manu Chao (recorded his latest album all over the world with a PowerBook and an M-Box)
6) Ty Herndon
7) Dave Navarro
8) Radiohead (Macs even talk on some albums)
9) DJ Sasha
10) Nine Inch Nails
11) Victor Calderone
12) Jimmy Heath
13) Mike Londo
14) Benjamin Brown (Gregory Hines, Ruth Brown, Dizzy G)
15) JJ Johnson
16) Gregory Hine
17) Milt Jackson (before he died)
18) Saga
19) Foo Fighters
20) Adam Dorn (Mocean Worker)
21) Donald Fagan (Steely Dan - check out the Dan Cam for pics of Macs)
22) Savage Garden
23) Santana
24) David Hirschfielder (Music to Shine amongst others)
25) Jars of Clay
26) SmashMouth
27) Marillion
28) Steve Vai
29) Aerosmith
30) Danny Elfman
31) George Michael
32) Nick Rhodes
33) Al Di Meola
34) Dave Stewart
35) Gloria Estefan
36) Amy Grant
37) David Bowie
38) Paul McCartney
39) B.B King
40) David Crosby
41) Quincy Jones
42) Beastie Boys
43) David Mash
44) Herbie Hancock
45) Rolling Stones
46) Billy Cobham
47) Donald Fagen
48) Rush
49) Sarah McLachlan
50) Kenny G
51) Seal
52) Celine Dion
53) Eric Clapton
54) Madonna
55) Sheryl Crow
56) Faith No More
57) Mariah Carey
58) Clint Black
59) Garbage
60) Michael Jackson
61) Sting
62) Faithless
63) Counting Crows
64) U2
65) Trevor Rabin
66) Howard Jones

Of course, I don't expect the list to convince you. Hab' jetzt alles gesagt was man ueber Macs und musik sagen kannst. Wenn du nicht ueberzeugt bist, versuch's dann mal mit 'nem PC und lass uns wissen wie du damit zurecht kommst! Where can we see you performing? Of course if you had a PowerBook, you'd be set up for video editing too and then we could all watch your performances over the Internet!

Good luck
( Last edited by Troll; Dec 19, 2002 at 12:48 PM. )
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 20, 2002, 09:45 PM
 
Wow, impressive list.... although I'm not too sure about B.B....;-)... is he REALLY using computers? Just kidding.... did they ever have platform wars between Fender and Gibson guitars, btw? Would be interesting to find out.

Well, this all doesn't mean that things can't change, now does it? The future, after all, is not now,

AND STILL----- ALL THIS DOESN'T MAKE ABLETON LIVE PERFORM BETTER DOES IT? .... it's still so much more powerful on PC, and so are lots of NI products, btw.

Anyway... thanks for getting so involved. I know that Bogdan Raczuinsky uses PC, Aphex Twin was seen with a Sony lap, Kitchen and Syreen in Berlin... let's see.... that's all for now. OK, I admit defeat!

How come your German is so good Troll?

See you later
Roland
( Last edited by form.aat; Dec 20, 2002 at 09:57 PM. )
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form.aat
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wilburguy
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Dec 20, 2002, 10:00 PM
 
I use my TiBook with a Digidesign MBox and ProTools for remote recording and editing back at the studio. In January ProTools 6 for Mac OSX comes out and then its GOODBYE OS9!!!
     
parsec
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Dec 20, 2002, 10:19 PM
 
I can add another to the list.
I saw Dan Bern a month or so ago and there was a powerbook up on stage with the band. I only noticed them use it once, but I was watching Dan, not the keyboardist all that much.
     
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Dec 21, 2002, 02:08 AM
 
     
Troll
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Dec 21, 2002, 06:33 AM
 
Live 2 is out. Maybe that solves some of your problems?
     
fisherKing
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Dec 21, 2002, 09:23 PM
 
i'm using my pismo 400 with reason & logic, os 9.2.2. using an oxygen 8 keyboard (2-octaves).

just scored an indie film with this setup.
have done some records, adwork.

newer powerbooks & iBooks promise better speed, compatibility.

these apps never crash on me (reason seems especially stable).

i replaced my project studio with this setup, and have never looked back.


u can check out my work at the site in my sig below!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Eug
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Dec 21, 2002, 10:15 PM
 
Stupid question, but what's the cheapest way of getting usable sound out of my MIDI controller keyboard? I used to use my PC under Windows 98 with some lame sequencing software to access the SoundFonts of my SoundBlaster, but the software was broken when I upgraded to Win 2000.

I'm no musician, just somebody trying to learn to play really simple songs on the piano/keyboard.

Hardware:

Cheapo Kaysound MK-6101 velocity sensitive 5-octive keyboard (no built-in sounds).
PC with Windows XP and SoundBlaster Live! Platinum
PowerBook G4 SuperDrive.

Or should I just scrap the computer idea and get a sound module?

I'd like to be able to play with a decent set of Piano samples. I'm not really interested in much else.
     
fisherKing
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Dec 21, 2002, 10:24 PM
 
reason 2.0 is amazing (and affordable).

go to versiontracker.com, maybe there's a good shareware app to read soundfonts...
then search for a good piano!(try a google search)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Superchicken
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Dec 22, 2002, 04:38 AM
 
hehe Manson and Amy Grant on the same list?! hahaha funny funny funny.

Oh by the way I know the american Christian Ska band Five Iron Frenzy uses Macs, a band I do a website for Cadet also used a Mac to record their latest album... Jars of Clay uses Macs too.... yeah oh and Toby Mac wrote a song on his album called Toby's Mac hehe... oh and so do the Lost Dogs infact if you ever hear the Chipmunk song off of Happy Christmas Volume 2 it's FREAKIN HALARIOUS!
It's got a buncha Macintalk Voices talking at the end and.. well you just gota hear it...

uhh oh last thing I'll say... Macs are EASY, seriously Mac problems tend to consist of either hardware problems like your hard drive just dies which is just as likely on a PC... since both apple and other PC makers tend to use the same HD pool.
Or stuff like.. wait... what other problems does Mac OS run into? Uhhh I had a kernl panic once.. and Microsoft apps tend to crash although that's solved with a force quit easy... uhh... yeah really Macs are much easier than PCs.

and I don't even know if you'll be able to buy a copy of the current version of logic pretty soon... unless you find an old boxed copy... least for windows... Apple's pretty much killed the windows version all new versions will be on Mac OSX. So if you need logic and live and you NEED both and you wanna keep going... you'll have to go Mac and just wait for Live to get better... I guess.
     
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Dec 22, 2002, 11:29 AM
 
off topic, but,

isn't that Intel commercial that keeps airing on TechTV for digital media and the Pentium4 using a Moby song? "We are all Stars" I think its called? And doesn't Moby use an ibook?
Mac Pro 3.0, ATI 5770 1GB VRAM, 10GB, 2xVelociraptor boot RAID, 4.5TB RAID0 storage, 30" & 20" Apple displays.
2 x Macbook Pro's 17" 3.06 4 GB RAM, 256GB Solid State drives
iMac 17" Core Duo 1GB RAM, & 2 iPhones 8GB, and a Nano in a pear tree!
Apple user since 1981
     
Eug
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Dec 22, 2002, 11:34 AM
 
So how do I hook up a MIDI keyboard to a PowerBook?
     
fisherKing
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Dec 22, 2002, 11:42 AM
 
u need a midi-to-usb device, they're cheap (check out m-audio.com, or any music retailer)

cheap! buy one, have fun!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 22, 2002, 04:17 PM
 
Well Superchicken, sure Logic is discontinued on pC-- but no one will prevent me from using it for the rest of my life if I don't need any new features.... which I really don't, looking at the current version (which does loads more than I'll ever have the chance to check out ;-))... so yes, I WANT and NEED to keep going, and Live is obviously having serious performance issues ... are you guys really just waiting for things to get better in such a case?

I find it hard to believe that a bugfix this dramatic will ever come...

BTW, any info on whether one will stilll be able to install OS 9 on 2003 Powerbooks?

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
azark
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Dec 22, 2002, 06:14 PM
 
form.aat,

Are you talking about the new Live 2?
If not, maybe you should try it first...
BTW, did you only try a Live Session you made on a PC or did you try to create a new one? I'm asking that cause I had problems with ProTools sessions coming from a PC...

If you're asking if the current PB revision would still boot 0S9 next year: The answer is yes.
If you're asking about a future revision of the PB: Who knows??? A guy called Steve maybe ;-)

Fisherking, take a look at Midiman. The "midisport 2X2" is cheap, sturdy and works great.
PB 1Ghz 1024 Combo
G4 400 AGP
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 23, 2002, 06:53 AM
 
azark,

you wrote:
"If you're asking if the current PB revision would still boot 0S9 next year: The answer is yes.
If you're asking about a future revision of the PB: Who knows??? A guy called Steve maybe ;-)"

none of these - my question is quite simple: IF I buy a TI book in January, it won't have OS9 installed - but will it be possible to install OS9 on this machine - in other words, if I take someone else's OS9 CD and install the 9.2 system from there, will this work? Or will there be some internal settings that will prevent people from doing so?

Oh yes I am using the new Live 2 already---- performs about the same as 1.5 - may a wee bit better. I did do the file I tried out on the PB on my PC - do you really think that could have an influence? If so, why? Because the files are just the same (.wav) and it didn't have any problems reading them (neither audio nor Live files)

I can confirm that the Midisport is a great, reliable interface - used it on both PC and Mac.


Cheers,
form.aat
( Last edited by form.aat; Dec 23, 2002 at 07:02 AM. )
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Troll
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:03 PM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
azark,

you wrote:
"If you're asking if the current PB revision would still boot 0S9 next year: The answer is yes.
If you're asking about a future revision of the PB: Who knows??? A guy called Steve maybe ;-)"

none of these - my question is quite simple: IF I buy a TI book in January, it won't have OS9 installed - but will it be possible to install OS9 on this machine - in other words, if I take someone else's OS9 CD and install the 9.2 system from there, will this work? Or will there be some internal settings that will prevent people from doing so?

Oh yes I am using the new Live 2 already---- performs about the same as 1.5 - may a wee bit better. I did do the file I tried out on the PB on my PC - do you really think that could have an influence? If so, why? Because the files are just the same (.wav) and it didn't have any problems reading them (neither audio nor Live files)

I can confirm that the Midisport is a great, reliable interface - used it on both PC and Mac.


Cheers,
form.aat
You mean you tried a pre-release version of Live 2 then? When you went to see your mac guy, Live 2 hadn�t been released for the Mac.

The current PowerBook runs OS9, so if it isn`t changed in Jan, it will still run OS9. The chances of a new model coming out in Jan are very slim!
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 24, 2002, 06:40 PM
 
Troll,

no I tried it on V1.5.x when I went to pick up (haha) the book, but now that I can compare 1.5 and 2 on my rig, I think it's about the same--- anyway, Ableton have committed to improving Mac performance, it's No. 1 top priority for them. That is really all one can hope for I reckon.
Having Jan 03 PBs capable of booting into OS9 is good news as I don't expect NI to port Reaktor anytime soon - they say they do but it will take more time I reckon.

Your post a few days ago about your Win2000 experience etc. has been very helpful Troll, THX FOR THAT!

cheers,
form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 27, 2002, 08:27 PM
 
I think I've made a decision--- I'll get the Ti Book anyways... just in case you all are interested.
.....


form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
azark
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Dec 28, 2002, 06:59 AM
 
Cool.

You won't regret it.

Good luck.
PB 1Ghz 1024 Combo
G4 400 AGP
     
Vanquish
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Dec 28, 2002, 10:22 AM
 
yes, another victory !

BTW: in the near future my TiBook wil be used as a mobile A/V studio next to it's Photoshop-function. yay for PowerBook !
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 29, 2002, 01:30 PM
 
Vanquish,

what are you planning on using for audio on the PB book, software-wise?

Are there any modifications that would enable one to optimise audio performance, such as switching off the eye candy in OS X?
And what exactly has the new Jaguar update changed for audio? Or is that planned for the x.3 update?
It is of utmost importance that these machines get faster processors ;-)

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
azark
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Dec 29, 2002, 09:52 PM
 
Why don't you work in OS 9? For now it's the best audio OS IMHO... OSX needs a few months more to have all the apps and plug-ins and I don't know if the performance could be as good as in OS9...

Did you tried Live in OS9?
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Troll
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Dec 30, 2002, 04:01 AM
 
Check out this site . Another album (and DVD) made travelling around the world with Macs. They used a 400MHz G3 PowerBook running Logic. The Michael Stipe song is great.
     
form.aat  (op)
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Dec 30, 2002, 07:48 AM
 
Yes I have heard of 1giantleap, and seen a few photos of them recording with a G3 PB in Benares, India! ;-).... never heard the music though... I would love to watch the DVD.

Yes I did try Live in OS9 too --- the results were only very slightly better.... kind of frustrating that, according to reports from the www.ableton.com forum, V2 hasn't changed anything in that regards, even though Ableton claim that it's "top priority" to improve G4 performance.....

azark, I realize that stuff that Live does can be done with other programs too, but it's a very intuitive tool indeed, and quite practical for live sets.

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
azark
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Dec 30, 2002, 08:10 AM
 
I tried the Live demo. I'm not used to it and it's not what I need but I can understand why you use it...

Did you buy the PB yet?
PB 1Ghz 1024 Combo
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form.aat  (op)
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Dec 30, 2002, 08:32 AM
 
azark,

No haven't got it yet.... I'm kind of more relaxed now that I know that 2003 PBs will boot in OS9 ;-)

As I haven't played live yet (with a computer, that is) I still don't know if Live will be exactly what I'm going to need---- the Touch Tracks in Logic just may be THE thing for me, especially since Logic allows me to play VSTis as well - such as the great Applied Acoustics rhodes emulation. So it may turn out to be a great solution, and the Powerbook player from Nils-Petter Molvaer's band uses Logic on a Ti as well - haven't been able to find out how yet, but what I have found out is the following:

A Sony Vaio Pentium 4 1.6 Ghz notebook owner informed me that Logic ran about as well on his old G3 333mhz powerbook as on the relatively new Vaio.... is Altived optimisation really THAT good? Even so, the G3 isn't even altivec right...? Hard to believe.

I want to score films as well using this notebook, will this be a breeze considering that a TV is going to be connected? any recommendations for a video recorder-to-Powerbook connection? The Formac Firewire one has been recommended...

form.aat
Best regards,

form.aat
-------------------------------
jazz infused live electro phunk
-------------------------------
     
Troll
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Dec 30, 2002, 09:20 AM
 
Originally posted by form.aat:
azark,

A Sony Vaio Pentium 4 1.6 Ghz notebook owner informed me that Logic ran about as well on his old G3 333mhz powerbook as on the relatively new Vaio.... is Altived optimisation really THAT good? Even so, the G3 isn't even altivec right...? Hard to believe.
The G3 isn't Altivec. My old 400MHz G3 iMac performed about as well as my 1GHz Dell. I'd say the Vaio would perform better than a 333MHz PowerBook, quite a bit better in fact. 1 Giant Leap was done with a 400MHz PowerBook though which goes to show how much you can achieve with a G3 let alone a G4. I still think measuring raw performance is a stupid way of evaluating the computer. When you get your PowerBook, I think you'll see what we mean. Better results aren't necessarily achieved by having a faster machine.

Originally posted by form.aat:
azark,
I want to score films as well using this notebook, will this be a breeze considering that a TV is going to be connected? any recommendations for a video recorder-to-Powerbook connection? The Formac Firewire one has been recommended...
form.aat
My understanding is that the Formac box converts an analog signal coming from a video source to a digital format that you can import via a Firewire connection. They're useful for converting your old video collection to Digital Video format (DV). I don't think it's useful to you if you're in charge of the music end.

Today, most films are edited digitally. In fact, I would think that most of the video you are likely to be scoring on will have been filmed digitally too. The footage you are supplied with will almost certainly be in DV format.

As a result, you won't need to convert anything from an analog source. All you'll need to do is plug in DV camera via Firewire cable and then import the video and the existing sound tracks to your PowerBook (with iMovie or Final Cut Pro or any number of software tools). Then you can play it back and forth on your PowerBook screen. You don't need a TV for outputting the video, but if you do want to do this (to get a better feel for the action perhaps), you simply plug a projector or a TV into the PowerBook's S-Video out which will free up the PowerBook's screen to dedicate it to the audio side of things (i.e. the PowerBook would be driving both screens).

Software wise, have a look at Peak - I think this is the most popular tool for soundtracking video.
     
fisherKing
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Dec 31, 2002, 11:08 AM
 
i use logic and reason for soundtrack work...
often watching quicktime video in logic, with reason synced to it, where i write music.

lots of options, and doing the work on my powerbook rocks...

have an 80gig firewire drive for video & audio files.

but if you need it, u can use this to get video into your mac:

http://www.canopus.com/US/products/a...m_advc-100.asp

have fun

(ck my site below, ALL music done in reason)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
 
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