[runejoha]

Hi, i really need a new laptop now, but no not know what to do!

Should i buy a powerbook now and sell it when the G5 is out? How much do yout hink I can sell it for in 3-4 months?

The average lifetime for a mac laptop is out! Will a new powerbook be released this month? (no mather what this is a G5 or a G3/G3++)

Should I now buy a cheap & crappy laptop, Dell etc. and then buy a powerbook G5, buy a G4 powerbook and sell it when the G5 is here (i dont care to much if i continue to use Windows a few months more... because I can install Linux on a PC as well

Will the G5, exception of better resolution which is something Apple could upgrade!, be much faster than a G4 anyway? Does Panther function ok on the 64 arch. or is it an advantage to wait 1-2 years more?

runejoha

[velodev]

From now on, I am going to post this to EVERYONE who asks the same question.

SEARCH: http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s=

[runejoha]

No, this question is uniqe. BTFW - Behave!

runejoha

Originally posted by velodev:
From now on, I am going to post this to EVERYONE who asks the same question.

SEARCH: http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s=

If you need a laptop now, buy it now.

If, when the G5 is out, you find the G4 too slow, sell it. Though I'll bet you'll find the G4 is fine.

Nobody knows when it will be out, nobody knows how much the G4 will be worth on the 2nd hand market - it will probably drop by at least $500, but that's only a guess.

And the others are correct, these questions are asked all the time here. Nobody can predict the future, and waiting for the latest and greatest only amounts to more time waiting for than actually using a Mac.

[velodev]

Originally posted by runejoha:
No, this question is uniqe. BTFW - Behave!

runejoha

If it's so unique... why is the answer the same thing I have read at least 10 times in the past two weeks.

[runejoha]

Originally posted by velodev:
If it's so unique... why is the answer the same thing I have read at least 10 times in the past two weeks.

You are both wrong, because I asked about buying a G4 vs. a Dell PC, and which option is more economical if I am going to sell this one and then buy a G5. The problem is that i am on the wrong forum, even dough i am sure you guys have other qualities.

runejoha

[chrisutley]

The most economical thing to do in your situation is buy a spiral notebook, some pens, and a nice calculator.

Do you have everything yet? Okay good, now just sit back and wait for the G5.

Originally posted by runejoha:
You are both wrong, because I asked about buying a G4 vs. a Dell PC, and which option is more economical if I am going to sell this one and then buy a G5. The problem is that i am on the wrong forum, even dough i am sure you guys have other qualities.

runejoha

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by runejoha:
Hi, i really need a new laptop now, but no not know what to do!

Should i buy a powerbook now and sell it when the G5 is out? How much do yout hink I can sell it for in 3-4 months?

Obviously you missed this thread. There is no such thing like Powerbook G5 and it is not likely to happen this year.

The average lifetime for a mac laptop is out!

No, it's not. The Powerbooks are updated generally in 6-8 months intervals, with the exception of the last 15" Titanium model that took 10 months to go Aluminium, and the Pismo that in a whole year, had only a hard drive update. So, I would say we are in a period that Powerbooks are likely to be updated, and if all run normal, this would happen around April-May. And quite likely with the new 7447A G4. With availability as usual one to two months after the announcement (which places us around summer).

Should I now buy a cheap & crappy laptop, Dell etc. and then buy a powerbook G5, buy a G4 powerbook and sell it when the G5 is here (i dont care to much if i continue to use Windows a few months more... because I can install Linux on a PC as well

As I said before, there is not going to be a Powerbook G5 anytime soon. Perhaps never, with the G5 we all know today. That's at least the feeling I have, based on available information and common sense.

If you need a laptop now, I am going to say the self-evident: buy what serves better your needs. Be it Apple or Dell.

[Big Mac]

I respectfully contend you're wrong Pierre, very wrong, about the prospects for the PB G5. It's just a matter of time. In fact, due to IBM's superior manufacturing techniques, any advantage the stagnant G4 has over the G5 in terms of power savings will be lost. IBM is moving fast - apparently faster than the rest of the industry - in shrinking the processor die. People have already done the math; the 970FX (which is shipping now) should be able to fit the PB nicely. And if not, its successor at .65 will certainly fit the bill. Oh, and if you believe the G5 is a hot monster chip because of the nine fans in the G5 tower, that's a purposeful design element. Nine smaller fans are much quieter than a couple of large ones.

Look, I hate to sound combative, but it really bothers me when people continue to believe a myth about computing that has never been remotely accurate. The fact is, whenever a new generation chip comes out, people predict it "will never go into the PB." "It's too hot, too large..." They most definitely said that about the G4; they said it about the G3 and even the 604 before it. As a matter of fact, they even made that prediction about the 68040. They've been wrong every time. And they'll be wrong this time - mark my words. I'd think, given past examples, a PB G5 for MWSF 2005 is a solid bet.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I respectfully contend you're wrong Pierre, very wrong, about the prospects for the PB G5. It's just a matter of time.

Well, I would like to be wrong on all I say about a G5 Powerbook . But I find hard to believe that we will see this year a G5 Powerbook.

In fact, due to IBM's superior manufacturing techniques, any advantage the stagnant G4 has over the G5 in terms of power savings will be lost.

Keep in mind that Motorola has in its roadmap an integrated dual core G4, with DDR and RapidIO for this year. This should be a 90 nm part.

IBM is moving fast - apparently faster than the rest of the industry - in shrinking the processor die.

Motorola's SPS (or Freescale now) is expected to produce its first 90 nm chips at the new Crolles2 facility this summer. And this is not their own fab, rather they contribute along with their partners (Phillips and ST Microelectronics). So, no Motorola management here and no problematic Motorola yields. I am curious to see what way they will find to screw it up again .

People have already done the math; the 970FX (which is shipping now) should be able to fit the PB nicely.

The 970FX, for the time being, is not shipping yet.

Oh, and if you believe the G5 is a hot monster chip because of the nine fans in the G5 tower, that's a purposeful design element. Nine smaller fans are much quieter than a couple of large ones.

Did I say anything about fans?

Look, I hate to sound combative

Let then the battle begin . Seriously now, I have more faith in an improved G4 than a G5 for the Powerbooks, because:

(1) the G4 at 90 nm can be a better mobile solution than a G5 at 90 nm;

(2) Freescale is moving in this direction (i.e. 90 nm) right now, with plans to produce an integrated processor, much better suited for mobile applications;

(3) there is no point to put a 64-bit G5 or whatever processor in a Powerbook, when you can't have more than 4GB RAM memory in it, and if the performance advantage (with memory less than 4GB) over an enhanced G4, is non-existent.

So, let's be patient and see how the G4 will evolve.

[anaphora68]

It's great how everyone here claims to be an expert on microprocessor development and apple's internal planning process.

I highly doubt a powerbook G5 anytime soon. If you are going to sit around and wait for the next best thing you are never going to buy a laptop, because that next best thing will always be around the corner.

What are you going to be using the laptop for? A g4 is more than perfect for 99.9% of applications. I use mine for very intense graphics processing and web development. A G5 won't do that all that much faster because most software is not optimized for it.

Go with the G4, you'll be happy. I don't think you're going to want a rev. 1 g5 laptop anyway. You'll be paying a lot of money so that apple can figure out all of the bugs with the laptop for the rev. 2.

[runejoha]

Originally posted by anaphora68:
It's great how everyone here claims to be an expert on microprocessor development and apple's internal planning process.

I highly doubt a powerbook G5 anytime soon. If you are going to sit around and wait for the next best thing you are never going to buy a laptop, because that next best thing will always be around the corner.

What are you going to be using the laptop for? A g4 is more than perfect for 99.9% of applications. I use mine for very intense graphics processing and web development. A G5 won't do that all that much faster because most software is not optimized for it.

Go with the G4, you'll be happy. I don't think you're going to want a rev. 1 g5 laptop anyway. You'll be paying a lot of money so that apple can figure out all of the bugs with the laptop for the rev. 2.

Ah! Two questions: Does todays Radeon 9600 card works ok with new 3D games (just to easure the effect).

Will a new powerbook probably have better resolution, or do you think that apple will keep todays "poor" resolution?

Runejoha

[anaphora68]

The card in the 15'' aluminum handles games just fine, but that's also why I have an xbox. The card handles graphics work more than capably.

As far as screens, who knows. I happen to think the displa that the 15'' comes with is really nice. I have it hooked up to an external display as well.

[scottiB]

runejoha,

While your topic has been posted a lot, you need to provide more information of what your current workload is and for what you intend to use the laptop.

From you saying that you'd consider buying a cheap WinTel in the meantime, I'd suggest that you buy 12" iBookG4 now until a PBook G5 is announced.

If you need a SuperDrive, you can buy a 12.1"/867 PowerBook refurbished from the AppleStore for $1399.

To reiterate what's already been posted: buy what you can afford if you need it NOW--and only you can determine that.

Personally, my GF does all her freelance graphic design work on a near-two year old iBook G3/700. While I'd love to wait for a G5 PowerBook to be announced before we upgrade, if a contract is signed where she NEEDS a PowerBook to perform it (which is coming close to pass), we'll be buying now. It's still much more powerful than what she currently uses.

[galaga]

Originally posted by anaphora68:
A g4 is more than perfect for 99.9% of applications.

I agree. Reading these forums, you would think that everyone was a graphics professional needing to do cutting-edge harcore rendering 24 hours a day.

Now, I'm sure some are, but I also suspect the majority are mere mortals who just can't live with the idea of not having the latest setup.

[anaphora68]

The latest and greatest is usually not worth the money.

I bought my 15'' G4 powerbook because it meets my needs and exceeds them. If I wanted cutting edge I would have bought a G5 desktop, but I would not tap even 1/10th of that power.

The latest and greatest is not usually the best, especially if you are not going to use any of that power. A G5 will only speed up your email program so much...

[Big Mac]

For the record, Pierre, my comment was in response to the original form of your post, which, as far as I remember, suggested that there will never be a PB G5. Now it's far more reasonable to say there won't be any such announcement this year, but that's not what you originally said. In any case, I have much less faith in Motorola than you do. I'm not convinced that they have much incentive to push the G4 past the embedded space at this point. Not even the most radical rumor sites have made such optimistic claims about the G4; the last coverage of RapidIO potential for the G4 is this article from more than a year ago. I lost my faith in Motorola during the Great Stagnation, and I see no warrant for anyone to get their hopes up now. Conversely, there's every reason to be excited about IBM's progress.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
For the record, Pierre, my comment was in response to the original form of your post, which, as far as I remember, suggested that there will never be a PB G5.

To be precise, I said:

Perhaps never, with the G5 we all know today

This means that a G5 Powerbook could be possible to appear with a G5 specially designed for thin notebooks like the Powerbooks, not necessarily the G5 we all know today. That's all I am saying.

Now, no one knows if IBM and Apple have already in the works some SoC version of the 970FX with PowerTune, to further reduce any heat and power dissipation issues. This would make an awesome high performance notebook with power consumption capable to drop to really low levels if there is not much load on the processor (for example, when simply typing or, even better, reading static text).

As for Motorola, well, I wish them good luck; it may bring some good to the Mac portables too.

[nobitacu]

Blah, just buy it now. When the G5 does come out at the end of the year you'll than be asking, "Should I buy the G5 now? or wait for the Rev. B?" crap. So just buy it now and save us the trouble of answering you that later on.

Ming

[KraziKid]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Oh, and if you believe the G5 is a hot monster chip because of the nine fans in the G5 tower, that's a purposeful design element. Nine smaller fans are much quieter than a couple of large ones.

I take it you have never built a PC before, or taken physics. I don't have a G5, so I don't know what size fans there are. I have, however, built many PC's, so I will use examples from them. There are two general case fan sizes, 80 mm, and 120 mm. To push the same amount of cubic feet of air, the 80 mm fan must spin faster, achieving a greater angular velocity, while the 120 mm fan does not need to spin as fast. Inherently because of the faster spin rate (RPM's) there will be more turbulence, which will cause more noise (along with the whine of the electrical motor, but usually the turbulence is louder).

Now, I am not sure what size fans that are present in the G5, but I assure you that the fact there are so many is a design feature because of the amount of heat generated. I can almost guarantee if you replace the fan on the new Xserve G5's with the one in the current PowerBook G4's, you will have a very expensive space heater, which will fry itself in a matter of minutes. The fact that even the Xserve G5 with the 970 FX processor requires a multitude of fans to keep it cool, is a testament to how hot even these new ones are running.

[ccsccs7]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
�whenever a new generation chip comes out, people predict it "will never go into the PB." "It's too hot, too large..." They most definitely said that about the G4; they said it about the G3 and even the 604 before it. As a matter of fact, they even made that prediction about the 68040.�

I'm not trying to refute your argument here, but I don't recall a 604 based Powerbook. As I heard it, they used too much power.