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Timo · Jul 1, 2004, 05:38 PM

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Agasthya · Jul 1, 2004, 05:57 PM

For those that are lazy:

funkboy · Jul 1, 2004, 05:58 PM

Indeed it will be.

I don't know how to react to this news... it's excessively uncharacteristic of Apple to do this.

However, I hate to say, I'm mostly angry with Apple... and I'm sure they're no happier with all the disappointing announcements recently.

But no update to the iMac in a year (in September it pretty much will be a year) is just inexcusable. Give it a speed boost... if I were an Apple shareholder, I would be very unhappy with Apple right now. As a consumer, I can't help but feel pissed off, especially since I want to sell my iMac and get a new one - I thought I'd have a G5 iMac by now!

...okay, okay, I'm done venting...

anoetic · Jul 1, 2004, 06:02 PM

From the looks of it, it seems Apple wanted to release the iMac sooner but ran into some problems. Thus the inventory being slowed down way before the new iMac was ready. Maybe the resellers were up in arms about low or no stocks and Apple had to explain what was going on.

The fact that it has taken so long also strongly points to a G5 iMac.

Rumor Addict · Jul 1, 2004, 06:38 PM

Wow I cant believe this! I guess they will be the feature of Jobs keynote in Paris on the 31st of August and will be immediately availble. What a trip.

escher · Jul 1, 2004, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Rumor Addict:
Wow I cant believe this! ... What a trip.

What a trip indeed! I feel like I'm on acid.

Good thing a new 12-inch PowerBook is on its way to me with an ETA of Tuesday, July 6.

60 days to go...

Escher

Rumor Addict · Jul 1, 2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by escher:
What a trip indeed! I feel like I'm on acid.

Escher

I cant feel my teeth.

Ryan Becker · Jul 1, 2004, 07:51 PM

There is still no guarantee that the "new" iMac is going to be a G5...

I would surely think that Apple would make a bigger deal about it if the iMac were going G5.... this makes me believe it will not be a huge update to the iMac line.

-Ryan

thunderous_funker · Jul 1, 2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
There is still no guarantee that the "new" iMac is going to be a G5...

I would surely think that Apple would make a bigger deal about it if the iMac were going G5.... this makes me believe it will not be a huge update to the iMac line.

-Ryan

"all-new" iMac is the exact wording.

Reasons to expect a G5:

if it was just getting a G4 speed bump it would have happened already
if it was just another G4 I doubt that production lines would have stopped as they clearly have in this case. Retooling production lines indicates a significant change.
all PowerMacs have dualies
iMac sales have been in the toilet for a long time. Adding 10-20% speed isn't going to change that and even Apple is smart enough to know that
Apple just announced a 64-bit capable OS for next year. To me that says they realize the G4's days are numbered and that number isn't very high.
i suspect IBM still has very high yields for 1.6-1.8 Ghz chips

mikemako · Jul 1, 2004, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
There is still no guarantee that the "new" iMac is going to be a G5...

The words "All New" and "Next Generation" give me the impression that it WILL indeed have the next generation processor. They also might have a new design, possibly based on the new displays that were recently released.

nbnz · Jul 1, 2004, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
"all-new" iMac is the exact wording.

Reasons to expect a G5:
if it was just getting a G4 speed bump it would have happened already

if it was just another G4 I doubt that production lines would have stopped as they clearly have in this case. Retooling production lines indicates a significant change.

all PowerMacs have dualies

iMac sales have been in the toilet for a long time. Adding 10-20% speed isn't going to change that and even Apple is smart enough to know that

Apple just announced a 64-bit capable OS for next year. To me that says they realize the G4's days are numbered and that number isn't very high.

i suspect IBM still has very high yields for 1.6-1.8 Ghz chips

totally agree, it has to be a G5 (ok, it doesn't have to be, but it's pretty likely). I'll be putting my order in, just in time for my birthday...my fiance better start saving

msuper69 · Jul 1, 2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Rumor Addict:
I cant feel my teeth.

What are teeth?

k2director · Jul 1, 2004, 08:48 PM

My guess is the new Imac will be a G5, but IBM is struggling with chip production, and what it *is* making is going to the PowerMacs and Xserves.

Apple probably made plans long ago to move the iMac to a G5, and assumed IBM would be able to keep up. But it hasn't, and Apple's getting caught out of position...

Zoom · Jul 1, 2004, 08:56 PM

Whoa.... most unprecedented.

This is blowing my mind. But at least now I know that a brand new iMac is coming and even when it's coming. That's... that's just crazy.

Folks, it has to be a G5. No question. As someone said, a speed bump would be fairly easy, certainly nothing that would have delayed an entire product launch. Also, Steve doesn't screw around with the iMac. This is his baby, the product that relaunched his career at Apple. He wouldn't bother with a simple speed-bumped G4 in an entirely revamped product. This is something drastically new. It has to be a G5, dual G4, G6, something totally new and exciting. Even with a new enclosure, a SP G4 would be a marketing debacle.

And now the MW Paris thing is a shoe-in, unless they unveil it sooner so they can take back-to-school pre-orders. Man, things must be really desperate at Apple for something like this to happen.

Nevertheless, it's good fortune for me. At least now I have a much easier decision. I think I'm going to hold off on my Mac purchase till I know what this new Mac will be.

nabfa1 · Jul 1, 2004, 08:57 PM

I really don't think the wait is going to be that long! I do understand that they noted they will be shipping this september.... but what about Macworld Expo in Boston on July 12 to 15th. Would that not be a good place to maybe present a new member to the family? And could it hypothetically not be possible that they are getting a head start on building them so when the orders actually go through the roof, they can keep up with the demand! They did start building the original iMacs before their introduction as well ( several months actually). Ofcourse this is just an opinion, but maybe?

Zoom · Jul 1, 2004, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by k2director:
My guess is the new Imac will be a G5, but IBM is struggling with chip production, and what it *is* making is going to the PowerMacs and Xserves.

Apple probably made plans long ago to move the iMac to a G5, and assumed IBM would be able to keep up. But it hasn't, and Apple's getting caught out of position...

Actually, I'm more inclined to believe it's a heat dissipation issue or some other similar design/architecture problem. My guess is that the new iMac will have a G5 processor in the 1.6-1.8GHz range, which should be in ample supply. I don't see a 2.5GHz iMac G5. This is an entirely new design of a flagship product, one that has consistently been radical in design. I'm much more inclined to believe that some crucial piece of this new design is causing them some problems. Maybe it depends on some completely new chip or mechanical piece or material that is having production or reliability problems. Think of the Cube and all the specialized parts involved in its manufacturing. That's my guess.

Eriamjh · Jul 1, 2004, 09:04 PM

This is the most bizarre thing that has ever happened.

BrunoBruin · Jul 1, 2004, 09:38 PM

This is certainly startling, but I don't think it's completely unprecedented. Didn't Apple discontinue the G3 towers in August 1999 and introduce the G4 towers that October? They had presented the G4 processor at WWDC in May, but didn't actually bring out the machines until that fall, IIRC.

I think the explanation is the same one we got for the G5 towers; they missed the planned interim speed bump on the towers because IBM wasn't able to supply processors. The new iMacs may have likewise been delayed, but with production stopped they couldn't keep selling the old ones.

scottiB · Jul 1, 2004, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
This is certainly startling, but I don't think it's completely unprecedented. Didn't Apple discontinue the G3 towers in August 1999 and introduce the G4 towers that October? They had presented the G4 processor at WWDC in May, but didn't actually bring out the machines until that fall, IIRC.

The PowerMac G4 was introduced at a Seybold (SF?) Conference in September 1999; it was quite a surprise, too, IIRC. At that point the BW G3 was discontinued.

NeilCharter · Jul 2, 2004, 12:17 AM

A G5 iMac sounds really cool - but can Apple really pull it off given the heat problems and chip availability?

A new form factor, especially a all-in-one flat screen / cpu, is more interesting to me. I don't neccessarily think consumer punters are going to be so impressed wth a 64-bit G5 processor, than with a sleek new design.

I somehow doubt that even a slow G5 would work in that environment without big noisy fans.

Apple needs to re-invigorate the iMac line and I think combining display and cpu in one unit would be a huge selling point. I just don't think a G5 can cope at the moment.

mac freak · Jul 2, 2004, 01:02 AM

Maybe, at 1.8 Ghz, Apple can pull off a completely silent liquid-only cooling system...

*Mhz · Jul 2, 2004, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
"all-new" iMac is the exact wording.

Reasons to expect a G5:
if it was just getting a G4 speed bump it would have happened already

if it was just another G4 I doubt that production lines would have stopped as they clearly have in this case. Retooling production lines indicates a significant change.

all PowerMacs have dualies

iMac sales have been in the toilet for a long time. Adding 10-20% speed isn't going to change that and even Apple is smart enough to know that

Apple just announced a 64-bit capable OS for next year. To me that says they realize the G4's days are numbered and that number isn't very high.

i suspect IBM still has very high yields for 1.6-1.8 Ghz chips

Excactly. If it was a question of a speed bump it would be out already. They must be in haste to transfer the whole product line into 64-bits. Otherwise they have to keep two different kernel versions in development simultaneously for a much longer period.

I wouldn't vote fot an old 1,6 chip. It would be wiser to go on with 90nm parts beacause of their smaller operating temperature and power requirements. E.g. a smaller power supply is cheaper and 90mn chips are cheaper in mass profuction because of their smaller silicon area. Now they are clearly in short supply of 90nm parts.

I think IBM doesn't want to produce 130mn parts anymore beacause of smaller profit margins and the fact that they waste about twice the amount of silicon compared to its follower. It also would be unwise for apple to use outdated chips. Just think of MOBO redisign costs when transferring to 90mn and the stops in production. It is an insurance to use soon-to-be-in-full-scale-production-90nm-G5s.

Macpilot · Jul 2, 2004, 02:20 AM

So do you guys think that there will be price cuts of the current line due to this news? With everybody thinking that this new iMac will be the greatest thing, the demand for the current iMacs will surely drop?

I personally don't think the current machines need much of anything in terms of design. A dose of speed and a price cut, but then again, nobody is satisfied these days. A consumer can do anything on the current machines with Panther and 1 gig of ram. And they are silent. Hopefully the new iMacs don't sacrifice the design elegance of the current machines for speed alone. An all-in-one design would turn me off if it did not allow the cool monitor-swivel thingy.

CaseCom · Jul 2, 2004, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Macpilot:
So do you guys think that there will be price cuts of the current line due to this news? With everybody thinking that this new iMac will be the greatest thing, the demand for the current iMacs will surely drop?

Price cuts? Maybe, maybe not. Demand will certainly drop off. But price cuts happen when you need to move surplus inventory fast. This is the opposite situation; they don't have enough inventory in the channel to last them until September.

Simon · Jul 2, 2004, 05:16 AM

The new iMac must be something really different if they can afford to let the whole line go into coma for three months.

So, assuming it will be a totally new design the G5 seems to make even more sense than before.

What about headless or modular design? Detachable screen?

I guess dreaming season just started all over again.

turtle777 · Jul 2, 2004, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by funkboy:
Indeed it will be.

I don't know how to react to this news... it's excessively uncharacteristic of Apple to do this.

Apple is just learning to be more honest.

In the past, they would have announced the new iMac at WWDC with immediate availability, and then delayed deleivery for 2 months. Of course, people got mad.

Now, it seems, they rather put out a safe date which they will be surely able to meet...

Different, but good.

-t

Eriamjh · Jul 2, 2004, 06:01 AM

Actually, it makes sense that a month or more before September that Apple announces the specs on the new iMac so it can accumulate pre-orders. 3 Months is insane to go without having product to sell. They would have to give people something to get excited over.

Any events between now and Paris Expo?

TiDual · Jul 2, 2004, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Actually, it makes sense that a month or more before September that Apple announces the specs on the new iMac so it can accumulate pre-orders. 3 Months is insane to go without having product to sell. They would have to give people something to get excited over.

Any events between now and Paris Expo?

September is only 2 months away, in my calendar

pliny · Jul 2, 2004, 08:08 AM

Good job Apple, for delivering a product rollout date, something they haven't done in a while, and which they should do more of.

Obviously since they do the hardware and software but not all the parts, they're somewhat limited in what they can announce, but they should definitely move towards announcing rollouts without the secret fanfare, and in advance.

djohnson · Jul 2, 2004, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
...What about headless or modular design? Detachable screen?...

Well, the current displays can hang on a wall and use different "arm" attachments...

Simon · Jul 2, 2004, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by djohnson:
Well, the current displays can hang on a wall and use different "arm" attachments...

Bingo.

But probably that's really pushing it...

Zoom · Jul 2, 2004, 08:53 AM

I was going to post this exact same thought last night, but lost my 'net service.

The new displays that Apple came out with have some sort of standardized attachement (VESA), which to me means they intend on having it attach to other things. (Do other LCD manufacturers use this standard?) I'm guessing that the new iMac will be headless and will have a bracket for this type of mount.

Simon · Jul 2, 2004, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Zoom:
I was going to post this exact same thought last night, but lost my 'net service.

The new displays that Apple came out with have some sort of standardized attachement (VESA), which to me means they intend on having it attach to other things. (Do other LCD manufacturers use this standard?) I'm guessing that the new iMac will be headless and will have a bracket for this type of mount.

OMG, that already makes three of us that thought about the VESA iMac. Yikes, I thought it was too crazy...

Assuming they really make a headless VESA-mount iMac, will they introduce a 17" TFT to the current family? They would almost have to, since I doubt the iMac buyers will like the idea of having to buy at least a $1299 20"... It could actually really be. The AppleStore still sells the old 17". Maybe until September when the new iMac comes out?

And if they introduce a new 17" TFT together with the iMac, will it be 5:4 or 16:10? And will it be Al like the other new ones? That would mean the new iMac would probably not be white anymore. Or would the new display be white to fit the iMac?

Zoom · Jul 2, 2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Assuming they really make a headless VESA-mount iMac, will they introduce a 17" TFT to the current family?

I think they'd have to. My guess is that they'll update the 17" display to match the others.

You brought up a good point about the style, though. The iMac/iBook line (consumer) has always been different from the PowerMac/PowerBook line (pro) in terms of external styling. I'm fairly sure that was on purpose. My guess is that they keep with that.

Now, maybe the new iMac and iBooks are colored (anodized?) like the iPod minis. So, they entire suite of products becomes Aluminum, but the consumer machines have colors.

Who knows? Honestly, I don't care much. I know for a fact that whatever they put out will look beautiful.

Simon · Jul 2, 2004, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Zoom:
I know for a fact that whatever they put out will look beautiful.

Yep.

But, then I start to remember the eMac, 7100, IIvi/vx and wonder if they just might screw up the design...

Voch · Jul 2, 2004, 10:22 AM

As a PowerBook user I've been itchin' for a small, inexpensive desktop/tower Mac that I can keep at home as an always-on workhorse server machine (overnight downloads, MP3 storage, etc.) without actually getting a PowerMac G5 tower (that's too much power and expense for what I need it for). The PowerBook is the computer I actively work on...this machine would be for that stuff that takes hours to do or doesn't need to be done in-person (or something that I could start remotely from work and have it get done when I get home).

I'm doing some of these things with my Athlon PC right now but I really want a desktop Mac. Maybe the September 2004 iMac will be what I'm looking for (headless would be perfect as I would rarely use it in person thanks to VNC/ARD and such, but I doubt Apple would do that to the iMac line).

Voch

JHromadka · Jul 2, 2004, 12:20 PM

A headless iMac would be the perfect home server, especially if I can remove the Superdrive from the price. If only Panther Server wasn't $500

turtle777 · Jul 2, 2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Simon:
OMG, that already makes three of us that thought about the VESA iMac. Yikes, I thought it was too crazy...

Assuming they really make a headless VESA-mount iMac, will they introduce a 17" TFT to the current family?

Gosh, that would be a killer seller !
Let's just hope Apple doesn't mess up with pricing as they did with the Cube.

The new iMac + LCD monitor shouldn't cost considerably more than the existing 17" iMac. Some premium for a G5 would be ok.

Please Apple, don't mess it up again !
I'll do almost anything...

-t

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Rumor Addict:
I cant feel my teeth.

Then stop grinning so hard

Zoom · Jul 2, 2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Gosh, that would be a killer seller !
Let's just hope Apple doesn't mess up with pricing as they did with the Cube.

Amen. I agree completely with your reasoning, except that I don't think a G5 should incur a premium. It's part of the evolution of the product. The price points stay roughly the same, but the product gets better. I'm more worried about a premium for the "gee whiz" factor. Steve gets such a woody over his new products and he thinks everyone else will just blindly shell out ridiculous sums of money for them because they're cool... like the Cube. If it was a deluxe top-end model, maybe. But this is the consumer space and bang-for-the-buck is the name of the game. That's why the Cube failed. If it would have been priced at $999, if would have been huge.

The combination of a headless iMac with the corresponding display should match up very close to the current pricing structure. This may include a discount for buying them as a pair (I think it should). For instance...

Current 17" iMac: $1799
Current 20" iMac: $2199

Current 17" LCD: $699 (old style)
New 17" LCD: $899 (estimate)
New 20" LCD: $1299

New headless G5 iMac: $999

New iMac w/ 17" display: $1799 ($200 discount)
New iMac w/ 20" display: $1999 ($300 discount)

Now, the new iMac probably won't be priced at $999. We could hope, but I'll bet we'd be disappointed. But no matter how you slice it, the resulting price point of the iMac/LCD combo's should be at the same price points for the "equivalent" current all-in-one iMac.

Again, I've seen Apple screw this up in the past, so I'm not predicting what will happen, I'm just saying what I think should happen.

turtle777 · Jul 2, 2004, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Zoom:

Again, I've seen Apple screw this up in the past, so I'm not predicting what will happen, I'm just saying what I think should happen.

This SHOULD happen, if you ask me

Headless iMac G5: $799
20" LCD: $499

*sigh*

-t

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 02:02 PM

I don't think the new iMac will be headless... that wouldn't be very Apple-like for its consumer product line.

Zoom · Jul 2, 2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
I don't think the new iMac will be headless... that wouldn't be very Apple-like for its consumer product line.

That's true, this would be an obvious departure from the original concept of the iMac. However, I think it makes economic sense and still stays somewhat true to the original idea.

First, if you buy an all-in-one iMac, your sunk costs are huge, and much of that cost is the display (over half?). You're not going to upgrade that for a while because you have to do it all at once. If you can upgrade just the CPU or just the LCD, then maybe you do that more often.

Second, my guess is that the new headless iMac design will cry out for an Apply display. While it's standardized and you could use another VESA-compliant display, only the Apple display would look perfect on it. Therefore, in most cases, iMacs will still be 100% Apple and probably look like a cohesive single entity.

With this, Apple gets the best of both worlds. People will almost surely buy a G5 iMac with an Apple display (again, the bundle discount would help here), and then upgrade one or the other more often.

It also gives users more flexibility. Want a big-ass LCD but don't need a top-of-the-line CPU? Now you can mix and match. If you assume three levels of display and three levels of CPU on the iMac, you've increased the choices from 3 to 9 by allowing people to pick each piece independent of the other.

Look at it from a negative point of view, too. Let's say either the CPU or display breaks. If my choice is paying $300 to repair it, I would probably do that with an all-in-one iMac. If I could just replace/upgrade the defective part (CPU or display), I would surely do that if I could.

thunderous_funker · Jul 2, 2004, 02:24 PM

I expect Apple to stick with the All-in-One design.
I expect the form factor to be quite similar to the current one.
I expect the price point to remain about the same.

turtle777 · Jul 2, 2004, 02:41 PM

In case someone missed this link from over at the lounge.
Very interesting (background) information:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/02/apple_imac_g5/

-t

Person Man · Jul 2, 2004, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by funkboy:
if I were an Apple shareholder, I would be very unhappy with Apple right now.

You know, it's funny that major stock analysts don't agree with you... two firms so far have reaffirmed their "buy" recommendation, despite the news from Apple, and in their statements have said that in light of this little "dip" in stock price on the news, people should be rushing to buy the stock... VERY interesting, considering that in the past you would have all the analysts prescribing doom and gloom on the news.

macaddict0001 · Jul 2, 2004, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by funkboy:
Indeed it will be.

I don't know how to react to this news... it's excessively uncharacteristic of Apple to do this.

However, I hate to say, I'm mostly angry with Apple... and I'm sure they're no happier with all the disappointing announcements recently.

But no update to the iMac in a year (in September it pretty much will be a year) is just inexcusable. Give it a speed boost... if I were an Apple shareholder, I would be very unhappy with Apple right now. As a consumer, I can't help but feel pissed off, especially since I want to sell my iMac and get a new one - I thought I'd have a G5 iMac by now!

...okay, okay, I'm done venting...

well sell it before september because then you won't get hit by the drop in resale value a new model creates.

Jim Paradise · Jul 2, 2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Gosh, that would be a killer seller !
Let's just hope Apple doesn't mess up with pricing as they did with the Cube.

The new iMac + LCD monitor shouldn't cost considerably more than the existing 17" iMac. Some premium for a G5 would be ok.

Please Apple, don't mess it up again !
I'll do almost anything...

-t

No, a premium for the G5 is not okay. ha ha.... which is a really damned crappy argument.

But no one should be having to pay a premium right now just for the iMacs to have G5's in them. They can't screw it up like they did with the Cube.

mattyd · Jul 2, 2004, 05:17 PM

what about a detachable, wireless, touch-screen display that would, in effect, work as the remote control for iTunes/AirPort Express?

macaddict0001 · Jul 2, 2004, 05:27 PM

Ive been thinking that they wil release a new imac that is like a pizza box(you know the older computers that are kinda like towers but horizontal)with a display that detaches from the imac and can be attached by an arm or hang on a wall or be wireless and take it anywhere within airport range then whe you are done you can slade it onto the box and it recharges.