Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > It's official. Macbook Air

It's official. Macbook Air (Page 5)
Thread Tools
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
But of course that all depends on how you define size. I can guarantee you that a MBA will "feel" smaller than a MBP because of its decreased weight and thickness.
Perhaps, but for example on the plane, footprint is more important than thickness.

I find the footprint of my MacBook a little too big. It's too wide.

The iBook is much thicker, and weighs about the same, yet works better on the plane in coach.

Of course, in a bag on your shoulder, the MacBook Air will feel much lighter.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 10:24 PM
 
This is true. The 12" PowerBook is a nice size for using on an airplane. But it's interesting that it feels significantly smaller than the 12" iBook, even though they are almost the same size and weight. The minor differences between the two add up, and of course the differences between the thickness and weight of the MBA and the other Apple portables are much greater.
     
fisherKing
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 11:04 PM
 
i give up; i want to like this thing, but the footprint, and the harddrive and other limitations, are hard to accept.

i will have to go see this thing in person, but it's still not what i hoped for:
a 12" mbp, a replacement for my 12" powerbook.

am keeping my powerbook (still), and waiting to see where the pro line goes...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 11:23 PM
 
I think it would work as a PowerBook replacement for me. It would certainly seem faster than my 12" 867 MHz PowerBook G4. Doesn't matter though, because I still can afford it
     
fisherKing
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I think it would work as a PowerBook replacement for me. It would certainly seem faster than my 12" 867 MHz PowerBook G4. Doesn't matter though, because I still can afford it

you CAN afford it? but you're not gonna get it? am confused...

i really want one, but with the ssd drive. i can NOT afford that...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 21, 2008, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
you CAN afford it? but you're not gonna get it? am confused...

i really want one, but with the ssd drive. i can NOT afford that...
LOL, sorry. Long day

I can't afford it. Even if I could though, I would probably wait until the first revision. IDK, I am just weary of buying a new Mac that breaks so many boundaries and has Apple's first use of SSDs.
     
crazeazn
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston/dfw
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 01:43 AM
 
WOW, this thread is a huge fight orgy.

I currently own a rev B 12" Powerbook, which I still use daily (getting near 4 year mark), battery still holds a good charge ~ around three hours. I loved the form factor. I was looking forward to the replacement for this. However, I am disappointed by the announcement of the MBA.

This is what I liked about the 12" AI Powerbook.
1) physical size (at the time slightly felt sturdier than the plasticy ibook)
2) weight even with separate gpu (hovering a hair under 5 lbs)
3) keyboard, b/c i type ALOT (the ibook/macbook keyboards i cant stand)
4) price (base at around 1799)

What i disliked compared to its bigger brethren:
1) no PCMCIA slot
2) no FW800 and gigabit ethernet

What i "wanted" in the replacement
1) 12" or 13" solid built notebook (aluminum), weighing around 3-4lbs
2) seperate GPU, capable for light use
3) excellent keyboard
4) no dvd/media drive, external but included
5) giga ethernet/usb/dvi/fw800
6) two button trackpad (ha ha)
7) similar price range

MBA doesnt fit that bill very well. While i do admire the weight, i could settle for a little more thickness and have some more options. Hell even my powerbook has a phone modem jack.... Looks like i may have to just purchase a 15" MBP....
12" AI book REV B, mac mini core duo 1.66
     
moki
Ambrosia - el Presidente
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 02:19 AM
 
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
     
His Dudeness
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seaford, Virginia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 03:05 AM
 
I laugh every time I hear someone complain about the so-called footprint. It's like, what? half an inch square bigger than an iBook, and people are saying they ain't buying one for that reason?
     
bishopazrael
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 03:47 AM
 
The MBA .... for what it is... well it will sell. No doubt about it. But I think what's really hurting the community right now is that I think either subconsceincly we were all expecting an 12"pb replacement, but more like a tablet than a laptop. I think enough rumors have been floating around about an apple tablet...just like the rumors of the iphone. Half the people said an iphone was in the works, and the other half said the first half was crazy.... and here we are.

I think there's something in the works. I think it's what the mba should have been. I think they had the design for the mba a year ago, and they needed to release something so they released what they had. Well...anything that will sell is what they're going to put out, and make no mistake about it... this thing WILL sell.
Backups are like guns and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
     
hempcamp
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 04:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by crazeazn View Post
What i "wanted" in the replacement
2) seperate GPU, capable for light use
...
6) two button trackpad (ha ha)
Why in the name of all things holy would you care that there is no dedicated GPU in a 1.6Ghz ultraportable computer? The X3100 is more than capable (hell, the 950 was pretty darned capable) for non-Pro mobile computing.

Current MacBooks and MacBook Pros have a great simulated two-button feature if you turn it on. Simply hold two fingers down on the trackpad and click. I'm assuming the Air has the same.

--Chris
Current: iMac 20" 2.4/4/320 / iMac G4 800
Portable: iPhone 3G White/16 / 12" PowerBook 1.5/1.25/80
Former: PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 / iBook G3 700 / PM 7500, 3G iPod 10GB, 5.5G iPod 30GB
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 05:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by crazeazn View Post
What i "wanted" in the replacement
1) 12" or 13" solid built notebook (aluminum), weighing around 3-4lbs
2) seperate GPU, capable for light use
3) excellent keyboard
4) no dvd/media drive, external but included
5) giga ethernet/usb/dvi/fw800
6) two button trackpad (ha ha)
7) similar price range

MBA doesnt fit that bill very well.
yes it does.

In fact, it fulfills ALL of your requirements except giga ethernet and FW800 (the integrated graphics are more than adequate for "light use").
Making the optical drive a $99 option makes sense, as *many* would never need it, especially given the wireless disk access and netboot ability.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 07:02 AM
 
I'm amused by the fact that ever since the MBA launched people are making the 12" PB this iconic, greatest of all time, super über-notebook.

I remember back in the day (and yes, I had and still have two 12" PBs) how badly received it was. People on this very board complained to no end about it.
It was too expensive.
It was just an iBook in aluminum.
It wasn't pro enough.
It was nothing but a high-margin iBook. Anybody who chose it over an iBook was an fashion-crazy idiot with too much money.
It was too weak.
Its GPU sucked.
Its screen sucked. It was so much worse than the iBook's.
It was too thick.
It was too heavy for its size.
Its screen was too small.
Its screen resolution was too low.
Its screen resolution was too high.
It didn't offer DVI. (that changed later)
It didn't offer a real DVI port and you had to use dongles.
Its single slot didn't offer enough RAM expansion capability.
It was much too hot.
Its speakers sucked.
It didn't have FW800.
It didn't have a PCMCIA slot.
It wasn't as fast as the 15" PB.
There were much better/smaller/more powerful/etc PC notebooks for half the price.

Shall I go on? I read all of these complaints right here on this board.

Don't get me wrong. I loved my 12" PBs and I still have them today. I actually used one just a month ago. But it's plain hilarious to see how today people on the exact same board complain about the MB and the MBA, about how Apple can't make the right notebook, but how they once did and now don't offer it anymore. That very same notebook you are missing so badly now was met with a huge amount of criticism back in the day. This is really a great example for those that claim people on boards like these are never satisfied with any product.

I think some people need to grow up and realize there's a difference between a bad product and product which simply isn't ideally suited for their use. If the MBP is too big and the MBA is too limited, the MB will probably be just about right. If it isn't, there's no Mac for you. But maybe, there's also just no notebook at all for you.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
That very same notebook you are missing so badly now was met with a huge amount of criticism back in the day. This is really a great example for those that claim people on boards like these are never satisfied with any product.
It's true that there's no product (including Apple's biggest hits like the iPod) that wasn't roundly criticized upon its introduction. But I think a lot of the people saying that they want a 12" PowerBook replacement aren't saying that they loved the features of the 12" PowerBook specifically, but rather the place that it held in the lineup as a very compact, fully featured (more or less) notebook.

I think some people need to grow up and realize there's a difference between a bad product and product which simply isn't ideally suited for their use. If the MBP is too big and the MBA is too limited, the MB will probably be just about right. If it isn't, there's no Mac for you. But maybe, there's also just no notebook at all for you.
I think maybe some of this has to do with the fact that Apple in recent years has had such a limited product line. They make "pro" and "consumer" versions of all of their stuff and that's it. That's a good thing for the most part, but it means that Apple's machines have to satisfy a lot of different people with different needs, and so it makes sense for people to get upset if Apple makes a seemingly minor change to the machines in either category. What people need to realize is that unlike the MacBook or MacBook Pro, the MBA wasn't created to appeal to the widest possible audience. It's targeting a very specific subset of users.
     
fisherKing
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 10:17 AM
 
all this fuss over the 12" powerbook...well yeah, i love my 1.5g 12".
the form factor is, for me, ideal.
sure the screen sucks. and this IS only a g4...it won't even run reason 4, my main app; but it's a great mac otherwise, and i have done some great work with it.

i like the mb air, but..still wish there were a 12" mbp.
some of us feel like this; what's the big deal?
this is a forum to discuss what we like, don't like, etc.
and for a lot of 12" powerbook users, the wish for an equivalent macbook pro is STRONG...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
But I think a lot of the people saying that they want a 12" PowerBook replacement aren't saying that they loved the features of the 12" PowerBook specifically, but rather the place that it held in the lineup as a very compact, fully featured (more or less) notebook.
While I agree with most of what you said this is something I do not agree with.

The 12" PB was compact yes, but it was very far away from fully featured. It lacked a lot of what the 15" and 17" had and internally resembled the iBook a lot more than a PB. Apple managed to get the size down using slower CPUs, slower GPUs, and using a higher RPM (louder) fan. It wasn't a small PB, it was an aluminum iBook.

The situation we have today is different because the MB is in terms of general performance is very close to the MBP. Unless you're a gamer or Aperture/Motion user the MB is the compact MBP. The Air OTOH is a lot more compact (overall volume), but again Apple had to make compromises to make that happen. They are different compromises than back in the day of the 12" PB. The Air has a serious resolution and decent CPU power, while it's castrated in terms of disk space and ports. The 12" PB had a crappy resolution, but it came with more ports. Due to its small screen its footprint was smaller.

What Apple could do to get the MBA's footprint down is reduce the bezel around the screen and KB. I don't know why they haven't done this, but I'm guessing it's there for an engineering reason (they did it on the MB too) and if they knew a way how, I'm sure they'd get rid of it. Other than that, the only way to get a MBA to be closer in footprint to a 12" PB is to go to a 10" or 11" widescreen. Unless Apple would have gone with a really crappy resolution, it would have been very hard to read stuff on such a display. And obviously the device would have had to be a lot thicker. It's one way or the other. Apple chose decent screen over footprint. That might indeed be a choice some people would have made differently, but in that case the uproar about the screen would have been just as big.

There's no way to satisfy everybody with four notebooks. But when all is said and done, it was exactly the same in the days of the 12" PB and the people who believe it was so much better back then, don't know what they're talking about. Or they just weren't here back then.
     
crazeazn
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston/dfw
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by hempcamp View Post
Why in the name of all things holy would you care that there is no dedicated GPU in a 1.6Ghz ultraportable computer? The X3100 is more than capable (hell, the 950 was pretty darned capable) for non-Pro mobile computing.

Current MacBooks and MacBook Pros have a great simulated two-button feature if you turn it on. Simply hold two fingers down on the trackpad and click. I'm assuming the Air has the same.

--Chris
Light photoshop duty. I had no idea about the two button trackpad thing, i havent touched a new macbook/pro in ages. Honestly, Apple dropping the firewire and ethernet makes sense, to save space. But there should be at least an express slot for those who use 3G data on the road as an alternative to wifi. Similar to the iphone not releasing 3G data capabilities.
12" AI book REV B, mac mini core duo 1.66
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by crazeazn View Post
Light photoshop duty.
AFAIK, a dedicated graphics card makes no difference to Photoshop performance.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by crazeazn View Post
Light photoshop duty.
Are you serious? PS is the best reason to go with integrated graphics!

PS doesn't benefit at all from beefy gamer GPUs. Motion and Aperture do. PS doesn't. All PS cares about is a fast CPU, enough RAM, and disk speed. Light PS use should be just fine on the Air. You'll notice the slow disk and lower clocked CPU long before you'd worry about the X3100 that's for sure.

[Edit: analogika just beat me to it.]
     
crazeazn
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston/dfw
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Are you serious? PS is the best reason to go with integrated graphics!

PS doesn't benefit at all from beefy gamer GPUs. Motion and Aperture do. PS doesn't. All PS cares about is a fast CPU, enough RAM, and disk speed. Light PS use should be just fine on the Air. You'll notice the slow disk and lower clocked CPU long before you'd worry about the X3100 that's for sure.

[Edit: analogika just beat me to it.]
Well then i stand corrected. My only grip is the lack of express and/or pcmcia slot.
12" AI book REV B, mac mini core duo 1.66
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
While I agree with most of what you said this is something I do not agree with.

The 12" PB was compact yes, but it was very far away from fully featured. It lacked a lot of what the 15" and 17" had and internally resembled the iBook a lot more than a PB. Apple managed to get the size down using slower CPUs, slower GPUs, and using a higher RPM (louder) fan. It wasn't a small PB, it was an aluminum iBook.
I did say "more or less." And by "fully featured" I don't mean it had every bell and whistle of the 15" and 17" models, but rather that it had most of the ports and capabilities that the average user might want. Functionally, about the only thing that the 12" PowerBook absolutely couldn't do that the other models could was use PC-card devices.

I don't want to get into a detailed discussion about the 12" PowerBook, but I have used one for years and like it quite a bit, despite its shortcomings (mostly obviously the screen, which is dim and low resolution).
     
@pplejaxkz
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2008, 08:09 PM
 
I have to say that it is one sexy looking Mac. I just bought a Macbook this past year, so I don't think I'll be getting a MacBook Air anytime soon. I too agree that the name does sound a little weird.

I say all this now, but when I finally see it in the Mac store...I'll probably want to go and whore myself around to raise money for one =/
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 04:28 AM
 
From the Apple conference call:

Q: MacBook Air. Do you think that will be incremental or cannibalize exhisting lines.
A: MacBook Air orders have been very strong but too early to tell regarding cannibalization.


When one caller mentions her firm has ordered two MacBook Air models: "orders are very strong for the MacBook Air. We hope you have a good spot in the [order] queue."
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post
I laugh every time I hear someone complain about the so-called footprint. It's like, what? half an inch square bigger than an iBook, and people are saying they ain't buying one for that reason?
No, some people are avoiding it because it's the same footprint as the MacBook which is much cheaper, does more, has more ports, and is faster.

I would have thought that was obvious from the various posts here that say exactly this.
     
butterfly0fdoom
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by crazeazn View Post
But there should be at least an express slot for those who use 3G data on the road as an alternative to wifi. Similar to the iphone not releasing 3G data capabilities.
USB 3G receivers exist.
MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.16 (Black)
iPod classic 160GB
iPhone 8GB
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
No, some people are avoiding it because it's the same footprint as the MacBook which is much cheaper, does more, has more ports, and is faster.
And some others are buying it because it's a little more than half the weight, is aluminum, does all they need, is fast enough, and is much thinner.
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 01:54 PM
 
It's also much, much sexier. Seriously.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
And some others are buying it because it's a little more than half the weight, is aluminum, does all they need, is fast enough, and is much thinner.
No surprise there. I was just answering the post that called people crazy for not liking the footprint.
     
ctt1wbw
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Suffolk, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
No, some people are avoiding it because it's the same footprint as the MacBook which is much cheaper, does more, has more ports, and is faster.

I would have thought that was obvious from the various posts here that say exactly this.
Okay, so tell these people to not buy it if they don't like it. Just because Apple makes a computer that someone doesn't like, that doesn't mean it's a niche product, or that Apple is going to make them buy it. I don't want a quad core Xeon Powermac, but I'm not ranting and raving for pages upon pages over multiple forums complaining that's it's a "niche" product, therefore worthless because I don't want it...
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Okay, so tell these people to not buy it if they don't like it.
Errr... They aren't, which was the point. BTW, I'm surprised so many people are getting their panties in a bunch just because not everyone loves it.

If some people are going to call other people crazy for not liking the footprint, then they're gonna get called on that. Simple as that.


Just because Apple makes a computer that someone doesn't like, that doesn't mean it's a niche product
True. However, the MB Air is a niche product. I suspect there are few people here who would argue with that, other than you.

I don't want a quad core Xeon Powermac, but I'm not ranting and raving for pages upon pages over multiple forums complaining that's it's a "niche" product, therefore worthless because I don't want it...
Good for you. Here are some valentine's lollipops for you.

     
ctt1wbw
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Suffolk, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
Look, the point I'm trying to make about "niche" products is that they don't exist. If I buy a MBA to use for school, and someone buys it as their main laptop at home, then two different so-called "niche" markets have bought the thing. Which makes it a non-niche product. Two market segments can use the same exact computer for two wholey different reasons.

Graphic designers are not limited to buy a Powermac, they can buy an iMac. Home business users are not limited to buying an iMac, they can buy a Powermac. Therefore, the whole stupid notion of "niche" communities and "niche" products is a moot point, they simply don't exist.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
I don't want a quad core Xeon Powermac, but I'm not ranting and raving for pages upon pages over multiple forums complaining that's it's a "niche" product, therefore worthless because I don't want it...
I don't think saying something is a "niche product" is a criticism. On the contrary, it's a way of explaining why some people see absolutely no value in paying more for "less computer." Some people simply value different things. This computer is targeted at the niche that values weight and thickness over pure processing power or connectability.

It's the people who don't understand that it is a niche product who are criticizing it the most. They think that Apple was trying to design a product for them and failed, when in reality they succeeded at designing a product for an entirely different group of people.
     
ctt1wbw
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Suffolk, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:51 PM
 
I know all that, and I still want one. It has stuff on there that I don't need and use. Like firewire and an optical drive. I have another laptop that has all that stuff which rarely gets used anyway.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:54 PM
 
Exactly -- you're in the niche that it's made for, and so am I, by the way.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I don't think saying something is a "niche product" is a criticism. On the contrary, it's a way of explaining why some people see absolutely no value in paying more for "less computer." Some people simply value different things. This computer is targeted at the niche that values weight and thickness over pure processing power or connectability.

It's the people who don't understand that it is a niche product who are criticizing it the most. They think that Apple was trying to design a product for them and failed, when in reality they succeeded at designing a product for an entirely different group of people.
Exactly. It is a niche product, and it was intended to be a niche product. The ultra-portable market is a niche group in the laptop world, and the MacBook Air fits squarely in that group.

However, this niche product is a little more restrictive than some, and thus it may cater to a smaller market than some niche products.

Despite this, a few here seem to suggest that those wanting something a bit different are simply "wrong", which of course doesn't make much sense.


Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
I know all that, and I still want one. It has stuff on there that I don't need and use. Like firewire and an optical drive. I have another laptop that has all that stuff which rarely gets used anyway.
Well, if you really did understand all that, then you would agree it's a niche product, but you have told us that niche products don't exist.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 03:28 PM
 
BTW, I'm surprised so many people are getting their panties in a bunch just because not everyone loves it.
How interesting. I'm surprised so many people are getting their panties in a bunch just because Apple didn't scale down the 15" MBP.

Seriously, I have seen several posts here that seem like people were hoping for something with the guts of the 15" MBP packed into a case smaller than the MB and now they're p/o because the MBA isn't that. Surprisingly that encourages some of these people to slam the MBA in whatever irrational way they can think of. I'm disappointed that certain people can't acknowledge smart innovation simply because the product doesn't match what they happen to be looking for.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
They think that Apple was trying to design a product for them and failed, when in reality they succeeded at designing a product for an entirely different group of people.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Seriously, I have seen several posts here that seem like people were hoping for something with the guts of the 15" MBP packed into a case smaller than the MB and now they're p/o because the MBA isn't that.
You hit the nail on the head on this one. Additionally as another poster also put it, when the PB12 came out people were complaining about it left and right. then when apple didn't create one when they rolled out the MBPs everyone was complaining.
( Last edited by MacosNerd; Jan 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM. )
     
malone
Forum Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 06:34 PM
 
I find all this discussion very fascinating.

But you know, in a few months, things will die down and people won't be complaining anymore. I rarely hear people complain about the PB 12" anymore, or the iPod, or anything else that was controversial during its initial release.

If anything, those products that flopped/got discontinued (as some are predicting the MBA will do) are looked upon with a sense of reverence now. Think Cube. Think Newton.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 06:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
How interesting. I'm surprised so many people are getting their panties in a bunch just because Apple didn't scale down the 15" MBP.
Stop exaggerating.

I don't see how some comments about preferring to have Firewire and/or Ethernet built-in, or preferring to have a somewhat smaller footprint, or wanting a lower price, in an ultraportable Mac, equates to scaling down the 15" MBP.

If you had said scaling down the 13" MacBook you might have a point, but you didn't, cuz you're exaggerating.


Originally Posted by malone View Post
Think Cube. Think Newton.
I have two Cubes. I love the design. I just thought it was a incredible waste of money for what you got when it came out.

I don't think the MacBook Air really fits into the same category because it better fills a need for some people (than the Cube did), but I do think it is rather expensive and was a little surprised at some of the features that were removed. I'm not particularly surprised it's expensive, but nonetheless I was hoping for a lower price for that feature set.
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 23, 2008 at 06:52 PM. )
     
imdipped
Forum Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 07:01 PM
 
I’m curious about how the drop down ports door gets connected to the motherboard. I wonder how it will hold up, and how sturdy the drop down is?
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by imdipped View Post
I’m curious about how the drop down ports door gets connected to the motherboard. I wonder how it will hold up, and how sturdy the drop down is?
The port cover would be connected to the case, not the motherboard, unless I'm mistaken.

Good question nonetheless. My TiBook's port cover was fine, but that's because I babied my TiBook. Reports of bent TiBook port covers were common though.
     
imdipped
Forum Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 07:43 PM
 
I wasn’t clear about the ports door. I was also thinking about the wiring and how robust it might be and the flexing.
     
icruise
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The port cover would be connected to the case, not the motherboard, unless I'm mistaken.

Good question nonetheless. My TiBook's port cover was fine, but that's because I babied my TiBook. Reports of bent TiBook port covers were common though.
I think it's not a port cover, but rather ports that actually recede into the body of the machine.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 23, 2008, 10:38 PM
 
Yeah, you're right. Missed that the first time.

The good news is that probably means the port door is probably stronger than a simple port cover.

I suppose it's always possible the (presumed) ribbon connector could be problematic, but we of course won't know until people have been using it for several months. Personally, I don't think that's likely to be a major problem if they've done it right. If there's any place you'd expect Apple not to scrimp with this unit, it'd be with the port connector. Cuz if that goes, you're SOL.

P.S. Anyone able to get the remote optical drive feature to work on anything other than a MacBook Air?
     
mfbernstein
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2008, 12:14 AM
 
---
( Last edited by mfbernstein; Jan 25, 2008 at 02:29 PM. )
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2008, 03:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by mfbernstein View Post
"Smart" is subjective.
Let's see. Fold away ports to make the case slimmer? Pretty smart. 1.8" drive with an SSD option? Check. Wedge shape to get weight further down? Yep. No internal optical or card slot to reduce thickness (and hence weight)? Sure. Internal battery and soldered RAM for an even thinner case? Smart again.

So while not all of these design choices are the right ones for you, there sure is a lot of smart engineering in this product. I don't see why it's so hard to admit that.

What is objectively true is that many of the complaints (lack of ports, lack of removable battery, etc.) could have been addressed with minimal engineering effort, but weren't for stylistic reasons.
So that is 'objectively true'? I'd call that a guess at best. It appears we've (once again) reached the point where a few posters are convinced they would have been able to design a so much better product than the engineers. It almost sounds as if Apple's engineers had deliberately made the product worse so there's something to complain about. Funny how these posts come from people who have never seen the guts of a MBA and probably have a no EE background at all.

Some people really need to get over themselves. The MBA is an awesome product. It's a real eye-catcher and early signs already indicate it will sell very well. It's not the right product for you? Fine. It definitely isn't for me either. But does that mean it somehow can't be a great design? Surely not. It is intended for a certain group of people and that segment will love it.
( Last edited by Simon; Jan 24, 2008 at 04:18 AM. )
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2008, 04:12 AM
 
To get back to more technical issues...

From the WSJ's Walt Mossberg:
In my standard battery test, where I disable all power-saving features, set the screen brightness at maximum, turn on the Wi-Fi and play an endless loop of music, the MacBook Air's battery lasted 3 hours, 24 minutes. That means you could likely get 4.5 hours in a normal work pattern, almost the five hours Apple claims.

That's great news!
     
His Dudeness
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seaford, Virginia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2008, 04:32 AM
 
He didn't mention the footprint? I heard it took a flatbed semi truck to bring it up there.
     
Simon
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 24, 2008, 04:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post
He didn't mention the footprint? I heard it took a flatbed semi truck to bring it up there.
He didn't mention the truck that's for sure.

He did have this to say about it's overall impression though:

"It's impossible to convey in words just how pleasing and surprising this computer feels in the hand. It's so svelte when closed that it's a real shock to discover the big screen and keyboard inside."
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,