[analogika]

Looks pretty cramped all around:

http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawar...image/1386.jpg

except for the frame at the front - but that appears relevant to stability...

[icruise]

I don't like to be the guy who claims that Apple is always right, but I think they do have a reason for the design decisions they make. I'm sure if they could have easily made the bezel smaller, they would have.

[analogika]

of course, that may change with the possibilities they have now vs. two years ago.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I don't like to be the guy who claims that Apple is always right, but I think they do have a reason for the design decisions they make. I'm sure if they could have easily made the bezel smaller, they would have.

Why, so people would bitch about it incessantly here?

[ctt1wbw]

Okay, here's the ultimate scientific compAIRison...

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Why, so people would bitch about it incessantly here?

Bitch about a small bezel?

[ctt1wbw]

Yeah, these people bitch about a big one, so why not a small one? I haven't seen this much bitching ever about a Mac product.

[P]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

I haven't seen this much bitching ever about a Mac product.

Are you new here?

[His Dudeness]

------

[hempcamp]

Originally Posted by mduell 

hempcamp: What thickness dimension are you using for the air? The average thickness is well above the average of the two ends.

For the purpose of the comparison I don't think it makes all that much difference, given the shape of the MacBook Air and its competitors. If you draw a rough geometric representation of each of these based on thickest/thinnest measurements you'll get roughly the same shape/size.

Feel free to offer an alternative method/measurements. I'm open to refinement of the data. I still think the Air comes in well below the Fujitsu in volume, while retaining a larger screen and keyboard area.

e.g. If we increase the min depth of the Air to half the max depth (essentially averaging Air max depth with depth of the iPhone which seems to be of similar thickness), we still get a volume a hundred ccs or so less than the Fujitsu, while having a greater screen and keyboard area.

--Chris

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The primary reason for the thickness of the MacBook is the optical drive, though.

Originally Posted by Simon 

You're absolutely right. And the battery already lasts a good deal longer than the MBP's so it's not like the MB needed this huge bezel to get half-way decent battery life.

Nope, still no good explanation for the bezel. I'm sure there is one though.

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. Without the bezel you have less internal space; to recover the internal space without a bezel, they'd have to make the MacBook thicker. You can get quite thin optical drives (7 or 7.5mm), but they still take up a lot of area that's no longer available for logic board, battery, hard drive, etc unless you stack them, increasing the thickness.

[Nawoo]

the big question is:


Can The Macbook Air flawlessly play 720p to 1080p MKV files?


1.6ghz of core 2 duo. Is it powerful enough?


That is the deal breaker for me

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Not sure why it's so hard to understand. Without the bezel you have less internal space; to recover the internal space without a bezel, they'd have to make the MacBook thicker.

Nothing about what you're saying is hard to understand. It's simply flawed logic.

Less bezel means less internal space, but that has nothing to do with thickness (which is governed by the optical anyway). All it implies is less space for the battery. And that implies less battery time. But precisely the two types of Mac portables that have these huge oversized bezels are the ones with the awesome battery life. If Apple thinks 3.5h is sufficient for a professional device like the MBP, why would they make a huge bezel to get 4.5h on a budget device? Doesn't make sense. As I said, there is no decent explanation yet.

Originally Posted by icruise

I don't like to be the guy who claims that Apple is always right, but I think they do have a reason for the design decisions they make. I'm sure if they could have easily made the bezel smaller, they would have.

Exactly. I'm sure there's a perfectly logical and good engineering reason for thus huge bezel. I'm just curious what it is. So far nobody in this thread has been able to come up with a decent explanation. But I haven't given up hope yet.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Nawoo 

the big question is:
Can The Macbook Air flawlessly play 720p to 1080p MKV files?
1.6ghz of core 2 duo. Is it powerful enough?

The 1.6 GHz C2D will play 720p at 25fps. OTOH you won't be getting 25fps on the 1080p.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Simon 

The 1.6 GHz C2D will play 720p at 25fps. OTOH you won't be getting 25fps on the 1080p.

There shouldn't be a problem, Simon. When the first ever MBP 1.83Mhz model came out there were members here proudly boasting about being able to play two 1080p videos at the same time. A 1.5Ghz G4 will play 720p at 25fps so a Core 2 Duo with a faster clock is going to do 1080p without breaking silicon sweat.

I expect the Air will get pretty hot though with such a slim profile and less ventilation.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Simon 

The 1.6 GHz C2D will play 720p at 25fps. OTOH you won't be getting 25fps on the 1080p.

What may present a problem, though, from other threads on the subject, is the matroska container. the 720p itself - no problem. Matroska (mkv) support: crap ten ways to Hollywood.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Nawoo 

the big question is:


Can The Macbook Air flawlessly play 720p to 1080p MKV files?


1.6ghz of core 2 duo. Is it powerful enough?


That is the deal breaker for me

I am using a Dell Inspiron 1720 with the GMA965 chip and a Core 2 Duo at 1.66 GHz. It's fast enough. I don't know why everyone keeps harping on the "slowness" of the Macbook Air's cpu. It's not like it would take 24 hours for the cpu to add 2 plus 2. Give me a break.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by analogika 

What may present a problem, though, from other threads on the subject, is the matroska container. the 720p itself - no problem. Matroska (mkv) support: crap ten ways to Hollywood.

That's what I worried about. We don't know what's inside that container. But we know it's going to take more muscle power than if it were an MPEG2 720p flick.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Nawoo 

Can The Macbook Air flawlessly play 720p to 1080p MKV files?


1.6ghz of core 2 duo. Is it powerful enough?

Depends on the audio stream and player. With AAC and VLC, yes, but with AC3 and some other players, no.

Originally Posted by Simon 

Less bezel means less internal space, but that has nothing to do with thickness (which is governed by the optical anyway). All it implies is less space for the battery. And that implies less battery time. But precisely the two types of Mac portables that have these huge oversized bezels are the ones with the awesome battery life. If Apple thinks 3.5h is sufficient for a professional device like the MBP, why would they make a huge bezel to get 4.5h on a budget device? Doesn't make sense. As I said, there is no decent explanation yet.

The optical drive does not drive thickness. Apple uses 12.5mm drives because they have plenty of area to work with, but they can (and have in the past) used 9.5mm drives or even 7mm drives like some other brands. The base of the MacBook is close to 25mm, so even the 12.5mm drive is not driving the thickness. If the MacBook didn't have the bezel, it would have to be thicker to fit everything it has inside.

[malone]

If only Apple had released the MacBook AirCraft:



No one would be complaining about the lack of ports and drives!

[Nawoo]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

I am using a Dell Inspiron 1720 with the GMA965 chip and a Core 2 Duo at 1.66 GHz. It's fast enough. I don't know why everyone keeps harping on the "slowness" of the Macbook Air's cpu. It's not like it would take 24 hours for the cpu to add 2 plus 2. Give me a break.

yeah that's cuz you're using a dell. Windows uses 2 cores when it comes to video processing. And it has the coreavc codec to help out with that.

For the mac, only 1 core is used. But apparently, a coreavc codec is gonna be released soon for OSX and should enable duo cores to process the video.

[Eug]

I don't think Apple gives two chits about whether or not the MacBook Air can play back bootleg HD files.

However, Apple's own QuickTime HD system requirements specify a Core Duo 2.0 or faster for its QuickTime H.264 1080p trailers. My tests seem to bear that out, IIRC. I tested QuickTime HD on a Mac mini CD 1.66, and there were a few spots on a couple of clips that were a bit of a problem. It wasn't a major problem though, and who knows how much faster a Core 2 Duo 1.6 is compared to a Core Duo 1.66.

Personally, if I were in the market for an ultraportable, that wouldn't bother me however.

Oh and about those MKV files... A few dropped frames here and there is not as bad as the files themselves, cuz the encoding of those bootleg files leaves something to be desired. Something has to give when you're trying to cram an entire 1080p movie into a couple of GB. They'd be better off sticking with 720p IMO.

[hempcamp]

Originally Posted by malone 

If only Apple had released the MacBook AirCraft:
...
No one would be complaining about the lack of ports and drives!

Truest post yet!

Originally Posted by Simon 

Nothing about what you're saying is hard to understand. It's simply flawed logic.

Less bezel means less internal space, but that has nothing to do with thickness (which is governed by the optical anyway). All it implies is less space for the battery..... I'm sure there's a perfectly logical and good engineering reason for thus huge bezel. I'm just curious what it is.

Looking at the teardown photos, it seems to me that it isn't just the battery that is contributing to the need for a bezel. The logic board may be the length of a pencil, but add to that the cooling device, the hard drive and associated interfacing, the pull-down door with the ports. It looks pretty cramped as it is!

--Chris

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The base of the MacBook is close to 25mm, so even the 12.5mm drive is not driving the thickness. If the MacBook didn't have the bezel, it would have to be thicker to fit everything it has inside.

Umm, no. Space constraints would have prompted the use of smaller battery and/or a 9.5mm optical. Apple chose to do the huge bezel instead. It's obviously not about space alone. There has to be some other design constraint that hasn't been mentioned yet.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Nawoo 

yeah that's cuz you're using a dell. Windows uses 2 cores when it comes to video processing. And it has the coreavc codec to help out with that.

For the mac, only 1 core is used. But apparently, a coreavc codec is gonna be released soon for OSX and should enable duo cores to process the video.

I have no idea what Mac you're using, but on MY MacBook Core 2 Duo, you are completely WRONG:

[Simon]

MacBook Air in stores already. On display by Wednesday!

[ctt1wbw]

Speaking of this... Do Apple stores honor the education discount that the Apple website store does?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Speaking of this... Do Apple stores honor the education discount that the Apple website store does?

Only on hardware. And unlike the Web site, you'll need to prove your school affiliation.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

I expect the Air will get pretty hot though with such a slim profile and less ventilation.

The reviews I've read have not born that out. So far its one of apple's coolest running laptops in a long time.

[frdmfghtr]

Originally Posted by malone 

If only Apple had released the MacBook AirCraft:



No one would be complaining about the lack of ports and drives!

How am I supposed to use zip disks with that thing?

[Simon]

Yeah. And there's not enough USB ports.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Only on hardware. And unlike the Web site, you'll need to prove your school affiliation.

Easy enough. I have the ITT student badge. And if the Apple stores have the Macbook Air by Friday, I might end up getting one this weekend. The wife and I are planning on going to Macarthur Center in Norfolk, where the only Apple store for several hundred miles is located.

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr 

How am I supposed to use zip disks with that thing?

you haven't seen the other side yet, don't rule anything out

[Eriamjh]

Since the MBA has only one USB port, wouldn't it have made more sense (albeit, more costly) for the MBA's optional USB optical drive to have been totally wireness using 802.11n?

If it can boot wirelessly, why couldn't the drive just BE wireless?

OK. Then it would need it's own battery that has to be charged. Add a USB port and you can charge it with any USB ported device and also NOT use it wirelessly.

I should patent that. Unless it already exists...

[ctt1wbw]

I'm sure there's already a patent-whore company in Podunk, Montana that will come out of the closet in a year or two and sue Apple over it.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Since the MBA has only one USB port, wouldn't it have made more sense (albeit, more costly) for the MBA's optional USB optical drive to have been totally wireness using 802.11n?

If it can boot wirelessly, why couldn't the drive just BE wireless?

OK. Then it would need it's own battery that has to be charged. Add a USB port and you can charge it with any USB ported device and also NOT use it wirelessly.

I should patent that. Unless it already exists...

It'd be pretty slow. Not sure how fast wireless-USB is, but I don't think its up to USB 2.0 speeds. And if you're talking 802.11n, then it'd be really slow (and subject to interference from other near-by wireless networks).

While the wireless drive sharing I'm sure will come in handy, I guarantee it'll be painfully slow for many things. I installed MS Office 2008 wirelessly to my laptop via a disc image hosted on my desktop via 802.11g, and it was v..e..r..y.. slow.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Cadaver 

It'd be pretty slow. Not sure how fast wireless-USB is, but I don't think its up to USB 2.0 speeds. And if you're talking 802.11n, then it'd be really slow (and subject to interference from other near-by wireless networks).

Wireless USB is the same 480Mbps line speed as USB. 802.11n
USB and 802.11n are both faster than 8x DVD.

[Eug]

Huh? Wireless 802.11n for a SuperDrive?

Nah, It would make more sense just to add a second USB port on the MacBook Air.

[Simon]

Nonsense.

802.11n on Apple portables gets up to about 130 Mbps. 8x DVD has a max throughput of roughly 84 Mbps. So speed alone certainly isn't the reason Apple didn't go for 802.11n on the external MBA optical.

The real reasons are likely cost (the wireless radio and antenna plus chipset is going to be a good deal more expensive than a simple USB chipset), size (those MIMO antennas need space), the fact that a cable would still be required to power the optical, and reliability.

[Kyros]

Originally Posted by Simon 

the fact that a cable would still be required to power the optical

I think this is the key. What's the point of having a wireless superdrive when it will be wired anyway, unless you build a tesla coil into the MBA, but I think that would introduce all kinds of problems (like increasing the thickness ).

Obviously there are people who would find it beneficial, those that want to use the USB port at the same time, or who are willing to leave the SD plugged in at home and just move the MBA close to it when they need the drive, but if they tried to squeeze in every feature that someone *might* be able to use, you'll end up with one of those 2 inch thick monster PCs.

In my opinion the MBA is exactly what it's meant to be. Apple's take on an ultra-mobile notebook. You can argue over whether or not the 13.3" screen makes it a sub-notebook or not, but the fact is, it's small and light, and your hands and eyes won't get cramped.

[moki]

Originally Posted by malone 

If only Apple had released the MacBook AirCraft:



No one would be complaining about the lack of ports and drives!

No ExpressCard slot! It doesn't have enough ports... waaaaaah

[ctt1wbw]

I found this comparison on msn.com. I find it very interesting.

MSN Tech & Gadgets - Top 5 Ultraportable Laptops - Products

These are the top? I think the specs on Macbook Air are far superior and the price is lower than most. Look at the number one. It doesn't have an optical drive either. OMFG. Windows fanatics and naysayers griping about this? I find it very interesting, indeed.

[mfbernstein]

iFixit has a teardown of the MacBook Air. Quite collection of parts.

[Gee4orce]

My feeling is that at least 50% of the population will want one of these laptops as soon as they touch one.

Some of us fellas might want one too

[damiensmunki]

My feeling is that at least 50% of the population will want one of these laptops as soon as they touch one.

Some of us fellas might want one too

Lol. Chauvinist ass. ;-)

[ort888]

No unboxing pics? Does anyone have one yet?

[b1NARY73]

Originally Posted by malone 

If only Apple had released the MacBook AirCraft:



No one would be complaining about the lack of ports and drives!

That is Awesome!

[Cadaver]

Got to play with some MacBook Airs today - my local Apple store had about 5 on display, though none in stock for sale. They're very nice. Very thin. Light. Very bright screen. I rebooted the machine with a standard mechanical hard drive - pretty slow to boot. The I restarted a machine with an SSD. Faster, but still pretty slow to boot. The SSD was faster, but not quite as fast as I thought it would be. The 160GB 2.5" SATA drive in the laptop I'm using now seems faster than the SSD in the Air.

Anyway. The MacBook Air is a very nice machine.

I bought a black MacBook 2.2GHz tonight instead.

[damiensmunki]

I bought a black MacBook 2.2GHz tonight instead.

I reached the same conclusion yesterday, though I haven't actually seen the Air in person. I just decided I wasn't willing to be part of Apple's test market this time around. I really hope the Air does well, though, as I'd like to see consistent upgrades/updates. I can definitely see myself buying one in a couple years. Now, though, I'm loving my black MacBook, and I can tell that I'll be glad I can have more than 2GB of RAM.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by ort888 

No unboxing pics? Does anyone have one yet?

I saw some up on MacNN and AppleInsider today.

MacNN | MacBook Air: delivery, unboxing photos
AppleInsider | MacBook Air unboxing: notes and high-quality photos