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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Is it just me, or do the Al's appearance look "cheap"?

Is it just me, or do the Al's appearance look "cheap"?
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siflippant
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Apr 22, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
Went to my local PC World store today here in the UK and while I'll accept that they do not take pride of the Macs that are on show in their stores [when compared to peecee's] they are still in pretty good order. I have a Ti and thought I would checkout the new Al Books...

But they look so cheap in comparison to the old Ti's. Yeah sure the titanium was painted and chipped [it has in one spot on mine] but this aluminum body looks so tacky... and that darker grey seal of plastic that trims the edge of the casing, the surface "feel" is similar to cheap plastic.

I do not wish to offend owners of these wonderful machines which are far superior to anything the peecee side can offer, I am just surprised at what they look like up close and personal that's all. Maybe it's time for Apple to switch back to black... with a dark blue glowing Apple logo...



Just dreaming...
     
striker100
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Apr 22, 2004, 04:48 PM
 
It's just you.
Just kidding! Thats what makes horse racing. Everyone has different ideas on what looks good or not. I personally think the Aluminum Powerbooks are gorgeous, there's not one PC laptop that comes close to it the AL Powerbook AFAIC.
     
Tweed
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Apr 22, 2004, 04:52 PM
 
It think it may well just be you.
Of the many things that can be truthfully said of the newest PowerBooks, "they look and feel cheap" isn't one.

Often those who have an older model of anything (cars, boats, computers, etc) will find rationalizations for the fact that they are "content" with yesterday's version.

Of course, that may not be the case here.
Perhaps you honestly fancy the chipping TiBook.

It's all rather subjective in the final analysis, isn't it?
     
Tomster
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Apr 22, 2004, 05:01 PM
 
Appearances are subjective to personal tastes. I think the new line is the best looking of all the Powerbook lines. Others would disagree. And then there is Colorware.
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siflippant  (op)
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Apr 22, 2004, 05:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Tweed:
It think it may well just be you.
Of the many things that can be truthfully said of the newest PowerBooks, "they look and feel cheap" isn't one.

Often those who have an older model of anything (cars, boats, computers, etc) will find rationalizations for the fact that they are "content" with yesterday's version.

Of course, that may not be the case here.
Perhaps you honestly fancy the chipping TiBook.

It's all rather subjective in the final analysis, isn't it?

mmmmm, no... that isn't the case... though in some cases, people like to think it IS the case...

Confused? Who cares! Just enjoy your powerbook... 'nuff said.

     
f1000
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Apr 22, 2004, 06:25 PM
 
Originally posted by siflippant:
and that darker grey seal of plastic that trims the edge of the casing, the surface "feel" is similar to cheap plastic.
I think the grey plastic gasket looks cheap, too.
     
KidKit
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Apr 22, 2004, 07:07 PM
 
I personally like the aluminium look, aboslutely gorgeous ...

about my only potential gripe against is that aluiminium is quite soft and prone to deforming with knocks and bumps. I don't think the grey plastic outline the case looks cheap, its understated, which is the way I like it
     
madmacgames
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Apr 22, 2004, 08:31 PM
 
Originally posted by siflippant:
and that darker grey seal of plastic that trims the edge of the casing, the surface "feel" is similar to cheap plastic.
you should be glad the casing is not actually made out of cheap plastic, like many PC notebooks seem to be
     
waxcrash
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Apr 22, 2004, 08:42 PM
 
I agree with siflippant. When I first saw the AlBooks at the Apple store, I thought the same thing - they look cheap. If you compare the TiBook to the AlBook on looks alone - the TiBook wins.
     
Orion27
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Apr 22, 2004, 08:47 PM
 
I think the the current 15.2" AL Powerbooks are gorgeous. At 5.7 lbs, the technology packed in this box is amazing. Against the brushed aluminum, the white Apple Logo makes an understatement that is pure art. Tightest book on the block by far. Coupled with Panther, nothing compares.
     
physman
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Apr 22, 2004, 08:59 PM
 
For me, the Al has a real understated subtlty (although if you do pay attention to it, the gasket is annoying!) What I like about it so much is the uniformity of color and simplicity; they did a great job matching the keyboard to the body. It just looks simple and solid, no frills-just a machine. It also can have a (literal) coolness (when it's been sleeping!) that instantly tells you that this is the real deal, plastic never feels like that! I do think that the Ti is a little "cooler"- the screen is a particularly nice touch. But in the long run, I think that the curves and simplicity of the Al win out... my 2 cents... fantastic machines no matter how you look at it!

And I'm sure all of you know how much fun it is to show a non-user how fantastic they are... always get.. gee, that's a fantactic machine, maybe I should get one. Doesn't hurt ;-)
     
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Apr 22, 2004, 09:15 PM
 
Always dreamed about a real carbonfiber case with a semi gloss finishing it will be the perfect impact&scratch resistant case ever built.
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skrumrei
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Apr 22, 2004, 10:15 PM
 
I also agree with siflippant. I recently upgraded from a Ti to an Al and I must say the current form factor looks much less refined than the Ti--the wider display bezel and plastic edge especially. It's thicker and wider as well which gives it a clunky appearance. The Ti form is great design that exudes quality and uniqueness. The Al looks a little too close to something Gateway puts out. Oh well, I guess I'll have to be content with improved performance of the Al over the Ti. I just wish Apple could have retained the sleek look and feel of the Ti--maybe they'll improve the looks with the G5 PB.
     
tooki
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Apr 22, 2004, 11:08 PM
 
I think the AlBooks look outstanding. But in everyday use, the organic curves of the Pismo (and of course the Wallstreet and Lombard) are much more comfortable and relaxing.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the front edge of the wrist rest area, which is terribly uncomfortable (it has a very square edge).

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SEkker
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Apr 22, 2004, 11:24 PM
 
I've personally found the TiPB to look the cheapest of all the recent powerbooks. But I also know many find them to be a 'classic'.

My favorite part of the Al PBs is the feel (literal) of the surface -- something I will miss when Apple switches to its next latest and greatest industrial design material.
     
intake
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Apr 22, 2004, 11:29 PM
 
Originally posted by tooki:
I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the front edge of the wrist rest area, which is terribly uncomfortable (it has a very square edge).

tooki
I almost feel like I am developing nerve damage on my left arm where it meets (bites into) the left corner of the 15.2" AlBook. Ouch.

I LOVE the look of the AlBook. I had just a hint of champagne color with out being tacky. Very high end.

BTW, Sony has had aluminum exteriors on the VAIO laptops for years and it has always looked like crap. Pickup ANY new Dell laptop and you know the feeling of cheap. That is once you have to put you OTHER hand on it to lift that huge monstrosity up.
     
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Apr 23, 2004, 04:05 AM
 
I have a Ti500 and an AL 17". I like the aluminum just a smidge more but the Ti design is still revolutionary. I had a few folks comment on my Ti last fall, "Wow what a nice new design, it's so thin" or words to that effect, my reply "It's almost 3 year old".
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cantona7
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Apr 23, 2004, 10:24 AM
 
Originally posted by skrumrei:
I also agree with siflippant. I recently upgraded from a Ti to an Al and I must say the current form factor looks much less refined than the Ti--the wider display bezel and plastic edge especially. It's thicker and wider as well which gives it a clunky appearance. The Ti form is great design that exudes quality and uniqueness. The Al looks a little too close to something Gateway puts out. Oh well, I guess I'll have to be content with improved performance of the Al over the Ti. I just wish Apple could have retained the sleek look and feel of the Ti--maybe they'll improve the looks with the G5 PB.
i agree !!! the Ti is without doubt, the best looking laptop every created. i have the 1ghz and would be gutted if something happened to it. the 2 models are very completely different looking.

sony are not that cool really. they do try though. gateway and dell !!!.... don't make me laugh. they have no idea.
     
Voch
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:10 AM
 
I really like the looks of my TiBook 667/DVI...it's very sleek, professional, and has given me no major problems (Apple took care of one minor internal power connector problem I had a few months into ownership...the paint is still mint).

If it were to die today (ignoring my AppleCare...let's say if it "suddently fell out of trustworthyness") I'd likely get the Apple Store refurb AlBook 15"/Combo/1Ghz that's going for $1599 right now (I don't care about keyboard illumination) and would like it just as much...

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selowitch
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:36 AM
 
It surely isn't you. The aesthetics of the TiBook are significantly more refined, IMO. Thankfully, however, the AlBook does obviously have superior specs and performance thanks to its being of more recent vintage.

As I have noted elsewhere, I particularly prefer the graceful bezel around the TiBook's keyboard to the unsightly gap between the bottom row of keys and the casing of the AlBook.

For me, the addition of internal AirPort Extreme card support is the dealsealer for me. True, the practical speed difference between AirPort and AirPort Extreme is hardly mindblowing; nevertheless, since I'm a web developer every second I can shave off my upload time means more money in my pocket over time.

However, none of this would cause me to reject the AlBook if offered. :-)
     
Casper Crane
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:45 AM
 
Originally posted by siflippant:
mmmmm, no... that isn't the case... though in some cases, people like to think it IS the case...

Confused? Who cares! Just enjoy your powerbook... 'nuff said.

If you don't care, then why did you start this thread?

i agree, the gray plasic rim on the Al Powerbook subtracts from its beauty, but the Ti Book was worse in that respect, especially the plasticky keyboard.

i cannot even imagine what the next design rev could look like, because this is the best looking notebook computer that ever was!

Titanium, Aluminum, Magnesium? What's a light and strong and beautiful metal? Chemists?

i cannot believe you'd want a black notebook like all the Win books... maybe black aluminum...
     
siflippant  (op)
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Casper Crane:
If you don't care, then why did you start this thread?

i agree, the gray plasic rim on the Al Powerbook subtracts from its beauty, but the Ti Book was worse in that respect, especially the plasticky keyboard.

i cannot even imagine what the next design rev could look like, because this is the best looking notebook computer that ever was!

Titanium, Aluminum, Magnesium? What's a light and strong and beautiful metal? Chemists?

i cannot believe you'd want a black notebook like all the Win books... maybe black aluminum...
lol... whatever...

     
hart
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Apr 23, 2004, 12:42 PM
 
Originally posted by Tomster:
Appearances are subjective to personal tastes. I think the new line is the best looking of all the Powerbook lines. Others would disagree. And then there is Colorware.
I just don't get how they could pick 20 or 30 colors and have all of them be bad. You'd think by sheer chance they would get one or two good ones. I guess it's sort of like those Dell laptops with the colored inserts, all bad too. Unerring bad taste.
     
Zoc
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Apr 23, 2004, 01:05 PM
 
I too think the Albooks are a little unrefined-looking compared to the Ti's. To me, the bare metal of the later machines just looks unfinished, somehow. It reminds me too much of an unpainted car body. Normally, I'm all for bare materials. I love unfinished structural concrete (in buildings, not in laptops ), and I think wood is ruined by stains and varnishes. However, in this case, I think the aluminum of Apple's laptops needs some kind of treatment.
     
turk.o
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Apr 23, 2004, 01:17 PM
 
on looks, i'd say the TiBook beats the crap out of the AluBook. I thought that the day they were realized, and think it still (even though my Ti is now long gone and my 17" is currently beneath my typing fingers). just my opinion.
     
ehwang114
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Apr 23, 2004, 01:23 PM
 
Originally posted by siflippant:
Went to my local PC World store today here in the UK and while I'll accept that they do not take pride of the Macs that are on show in their stores [when compared to peecee's] they are still in pretty good order. I have a Ti and thought I would checkout the new Al Books...

But they look so cheap in comparison to the old Ti's. Yeah sure the titanium was painted and chipped [it has in one spot on mine] but this aluminum body looks so tacky... and that darker grey seal of plastic that trims the edge of the casing, the surface "feel" is similar to cheap plastic.

I do not wish to offend owners of these wonderful machines which are far superior to anything the peecee side can offer, I am just surprised at what they look like up close and personal that's all. Maybe it's time for Apple to switch back to black... with a dark blue glowing Apple logo...



Just dreaming...

personally i think the ibooks look better than the powerbooks. but like many posts have indicated beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i bought a pb because it was a superior machine. like the old cliche goes, its the inside that counts. hahaha im full of cliches. either way apples all look better and work better than any pc. i just wish they had a pb with the casing of an ibook
     
EdipisReks
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Apr 23, 2004, 01:31 PM
 
while i love the looks of my albook (and find it to be very comfortable to use), i wish it was plastic. my right palm rest is starting to corrode, unfortunately.
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Jordan
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Apr 23, 2004, 02:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Tomster:
Appearances are subjective to personal tastes. I think the new line is the best looking of all the Powerbook lines. Others would disagree. And then there is Colorware.
How cool is that!!! I never knew such a company existed!!!

Has anyone done this? Does it chip like my poor Ti Powerbook. Problem if you wear a watch with a metal band. Over time it just seems to chip away at the paint on the Ti PB.

However, the reason I still love my Ti is that is made of Titanium and that sounds really cool! If coke cans were made of Titanium and Aluminium was rare and expensive then AL would be cool... lol Just my ramblings though...

My only wish list for my Ti is a backlit keyboard. That alone is nearly enough to make me by an AL PB.

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Apr 23, 2004, 02:04 PM
 
Originally posted by Tweed:
Often those who have an older model of anything (cars, boats, computers, etc) will find rationalizations for the fact that they are "content" with yesterday's version.
Well I guess that's me. I have one of the original Dual USB iBooks, and I think the new iBooks look too white and kinda cheap.
     
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Apr 23, 2004, 02:39 PM
 
I used to think the ti books were the coolest looking laptops but after the Al came out, I found the ti look a bit dated. I think the Al has the Ti beat by a long shot. I find the keyboard of the Ti a bit chintzy and never really liked the hinges to the screen. I also prefer the rounded edges of the Al and think the plastic around the edges is very tasteful (especially how they flow into the Airport extreme antennae on the screen)

For the web developer the difference between AE and Airport for uploading files will be negligible since Airport is not even close to being maxed out by broadband. If you're talking about transferring files between computers through Airport then you'd see a definite difference.
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sharien
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Apr 23, 2004, 03:38 PM
 
I think scratched titanium is a heck of a lot cheaper-looking than aluminum. And if you used your TiBook much at all, you've got scratches. Some of my friends who took very good care of their TIBooks still ended up with terrible gouges in their cases; clearly the paint/coating process Apple used was poor quality.

And aren't we forgetting the terrible TiBook hinge/port placement (just try unsnapping that RJ-45 connector with no fingernails)?
     
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Apr 23, 2004, 03:59 PM
 
One year old Rev A 17 here. Perfect condition with continual usage. Longest I've ever kept a Mac. All three of my Tibooks (400, 550, 800) had paint damage, mechanical faults, scratches or were too hot.
     
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Apr 23, 2004, 04:06 PM
 
Originally posted by siflippant:
Went to my local PC World store today here in the UK and while I'll accept that they do not take pride of the Macs that are on show in their stores [when compared to peecee's] they are still in pretty good order. I have a Ti and thought I would checkout the new Al Books...

But they look so cheap in comparison to the old Ti's. Yeah sure the titanium was painted and chipped [it has in one spot on mine] but this aluminum body looks so tacky... and that darker grey seal of plastic that trims the edge of the casing, the surface "feel" is similar to cheap plastic.

I do not wish to offend owners of these wonderful machines which are far superior to anything the peecee side can offer, I am just surprised at what they look like up close and personal that's all. Maybe it's time for Apple to switch back to black... with a dark blue glowing Apple logo...



Just dreaming...

I always thought the current PowerBook to look a little too *bling* (expensive).
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Apr 23, 2004, 05:01 PM
 
Quote:"I agree with siflippant. When I first saw the AlBooks at the Apple store, I thought the same thing - they look cheap. If you compare the TiBook to the AlBook on looks alone - the TiBook wins."

Second that. For future revisions/modells id wish some kinda re-engineered Tibook casing, rim made of anodized magnesium alloy instead of painted carbon/plastic one --> No more paint flaking probs, ports on the backside - no cluttering cables where the mouse is located while using it on a desk. Airport antennas inside the LCD housing --> better signal reception........................................a nd yes: APPLE, plz gimme the backlighted keyboard in a Tibook formfactor


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Apr 23, 2004, 05:21 PM
 
Heh...funny thread...

All powerbooks are GORGEOUS! Final :o)

I was in love with the TiBook the first time I saw it
but then I couldn't afford it..

Now when I saw the AluBook..I thougt...WOW...
now they've made it even MORE stream-line
and neutral...everything seems so seamless now
and the keyboard has the same color as the aluminium
and lights up...lovely.

Personally I prefer the Alubook...so I bought that
one...I could not resist anymore. It's Fantastic.

Even though I like the TiBook..I didnt like the big
white rim that it has...to me that looks cheap,
but I guess thats just "Scandinavian" minimalist
for you :o)

Above all - Enjoy your powerbooks!
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Apr 23, 2004, 08:07 PM
 
Well... I haven't seen the Al PowerBook up close & personal yet, but I was fixing to place an order for a brand spankin' new 1.5GHz 17" model. It never even occurred to me that there might be a significant difference in appearance between the new AI PBs and my venerable Ti-400... until I read this thread.

Still, I guess it doesn't much matter what the doggone thang looks like. I'll continue to buy and use PowerBooks because they're the best tool for the work I want to accomplish, and I really don't give a rip what other people think about how they look. However, I do appreciate the fact that what I (or you) think as the owner of gizmo certainly matters. That is the prerogative of ownership.

In fact (and I fully expect that the following statement will be viewed as something tantamount to heresy, considering some of the comments I've read in this thread), in my honest opinion, the best looking PB ever was the PowerBookG3 series (Lombard-Pismo-FW), whose appearance I liken to the SR-71 Blackbird in its radical, paradigm-busting approach to the evolving aesthetics of laptop computers.

In the final analysis, the oft-repeated observation that all this sort of thing is purely a matter of individual taste is really the only relevant statement that one can make. The way I see it, I just consider it a doggone good thang that a tool like the PowerBook -- any PowerBook -- exists as an alternative to the zillions of vastly inferior options available to those who use... er, the other OS.
     
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Apr 23, 2004, 08:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Tomster:
Appearances are subjective to personal tastes. I think the new line is the best looking of all the Powerbook lines. Others would disagree. And then there is Colorware.
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Apr 23, 2004, 11:24 PM
 
I own both Ti800 and Al 1.25, but I have to say Ti model looks and feels better in most of the parts.

When I place them side by side, the sleekness of the Ti Book gets obvious. The thinness of Ti Book is more obvious by the sharper edge and the two-tone colored casing. The difference of the colors in paint is much more subtle and sophisticated than the Al with anodized al and gray plastic.

Also the rounded corners of Al Book make it look much thicker than Ti Book. Actually, it feels much better to carry Ti Book in hand by the soft paint and the sharper edge. (and also the rid of the Ti Book closes much more tightly without clip-clop of Al Book's. ( Actually extra thickness of Al Book feels pretty big, it is true that 17" Al Book feels much thinner when you carry)

I would say Al Book looks superior when it is open (the design of keyboard, speaker grills, trackpad, and yes, the power button!) but the design of the sides are a kind of dissapointing. Those ports on the sides are convenient but not aesthetically appealing, (I don't mind reaching to the back pannel for those ports in Ti Book) and the air grills and PC card slot are much less sophisticated in design compared to Ti Book's.

Ti Book design is based on the aesthetic, (to make it look thin and sleek) and Al Book design is based more on the function (for convenience and durability reflecting on the problems of Ti Book's) So I won't say which one is better as a computer, but hopefully next machine will go in-between.
     
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Apr 24, 2004, 12:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Crusoe:
I have a Ti500 and an AL 17". I like the aluminum just a smidge more but the Ti design is still revolutionary. I had a few folks comment on my Ti last fall, "Wow what a nice new design, it's so thin" or words to that effect, my reply "It's almost 3 year old".
I like the Ti better too. It's the gray edge that makes the Als look cheap. One reason why the Ti prob looks better is because the Ti has more details. The Al has a plane, bare finish.
     
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Apr 24, 2004, 01:55 AM
 
it does look cheap when looking at it very close up. looks even cheaper when you look at damaged ones, like how the aluminum skin buckles. don't like the idea of painting the keys silver, i'm sure they would eventually scratch, chip or wear. looks too plain as well. and now we're finding out that the aluminum pits on the palmrests.
     
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Apr 24, 2004, 08:20 AM
 
It's you.
     
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Apr 24, 2004, 12:52 PM
 
It's remarkable how important the appearance of a computer is to so many people. It's a sign that computers, like cars and toasters, are pretty standardized now and the way to distinguish one from another is by superficial appearance.

For my part, I'd like more attention paid to battery life and noise. My TiBk wants to run its fan whenever it is normal room temperature. If I dare to run a video or a screensaver, the fan starts to scream within 3 minutes.

Give me a quieter Mac- even if it's ugly!
iMac 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo 6GB, OS 10.6.8
Macbook Pro 2.2GHz Core i7 8GB. OS 10.6.8
iPhone 3GS 32GB, OS 5 / TiBook / Newton (2)
     
SketchPad
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Apr 24, 2004, 01:12 PM
 
The new alu books are WAY silent compared to the older tibooks.
I've got the 17" alubook and the fans hardly come on at all..

Perhaps after 10-15 minutes in Quake 3 it will come on a bit
but mostly not..
/SketchPad
     
dmwogan
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Apr 24, 2004, 03:02 PM
 
Anybody in here in the engineering fields? Cause this is familiar stuff for me mostly - talking about metals, strength and deformation. Just curious cause I saw some posts about deformation and carbonfibers.


David
The snozberries taste like snozberries.
     
rytc
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Apr 25, 2004, 03:59 AM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
MY EYES! MY EYES!!
hmm that's what people used to say about the Key Lime iBooks! Owning one myself I have to say they look a lot better than the boring black versions they made, although the blue was pretty nice too I'm sure those coloured PBs actually look pretty good in person!
     
Simon
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Apr 25, 2004, 08:21 AM
 
I have an Al PowerBook and I love its appearance. It's absolutely reduced to the essentials which makes it look very classy. The plastic lining is not exactly great, but I guess that just can't be avoided. What really sucks is that the 15" Al got slightly fatter and wider than the Ti, but apart form that I think Al was a perfect decision.

I can't understand people that don't like the Al keyboard. The keys are solid, the feeling is solid, it's just perfect. Much better than the Ti's cheap semi-transparent plastic click-clack keyboard that flexes like an old spring mattress. And way better than all those PC notebooks (including the otherwise great Thinkpads) with their cheap looking black keys that scream mold plastic at you from a mile away.

The Titanium part of the Ti was great. The frame and the keyboard were fugly however. And remember all the bitching in here about paint, scratches, dents, etc. Not half of the complaints since the switch to Al.

Finally, ports on the side are a good thing. The recessed screen is a godsend that makes the PowerBook much more compact. Go to any store that sells cheap PC notebooks (like I did yesterday) and take a look. There is simply no comparably stylish notebook on the planet. And if the PC notebook is as compact as the Al PowerBooks it lacks half the features. Al rules.
     
KevinPrice
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Apr 25, 2004, 08:58 AM
 
Interesting little anecdote:

Back in September I had ordered the new 15" PB when it was first announced. I'd been waiting and waiting and waiting for the new version as I constantly upgraded and tinkered with my increasingly old, but stable Wallstreet I to keep it alive...and was finally and anxiously awaiting arrival of this new beauty.

Two days before I received it, I sat down in the office of one of my clients and pulled out my aging Wallstreet. He stopped me in mid-sentence and said "Wow...what a neat looking laptop!", admiring the look and shape of the Wallstreet. When I told him it was 5 years old, he couldn't believe it.

My son is now using the Wallstreet until I get him a new iBook prior to him attending college as a Freshman in the fall, after which the Wallstreet will be passed on to my wife who recently returned to work in an office with no computers.

NET: I agree with the comments above regarding the Wallstreet and Pismo designs. I hope the Al sees just as long of a life, still being admired 5 years from now.
Kevin Price
     
selowitch
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Apr 25, 2004, 09:25 AM
 
For the web developer the difference between AE and Airport for uploading files will be negligible since Airport is not even close to being maxed out by broadband. If you're talking about transferring files between computers through Airport then you'd see a definite difference. [/B]
That's absolutely correct. Note also that my wireless print spooling is faster with AE, too.
     
siflippant  (op)
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Apr 25, 2004, 10:40 AM
 
Originally posted by RayX:
It's you.
ty
     
x user
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Apr 25, 2004, 11:02 AM
 
I really like the AL better myself, mostly because of the way the display hinges. I also agree that the Pismo/lombard was a more comfortable case design, except for they tended to be more top-heavy. Overall, the best case design for it's time period had to be the 1400c.
     
 
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