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Bootcamp + Games
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kurt.physics
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Jan 1, 2008, 08:42 PM
 
Hello,

I need to know what games work on bootcamp, if there is any online list that anyone can point me to. Or it would be easier if someone could please tell me if bootcamp allows/has shaders because all the good PC games (Battlefield 2, The Matrix: Path of Neo, Spiderman: Friend or Foe) use shaders.

PLEEAAAASSEEE i really am dieing to know

Thanks to anyone who can help, really appriciated
     
ghporter
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Jan 1, 2008, 08:54 PM
 
Read this slowly, because most people don't understand the first time: when you boot into Windows that's been set up using Boot Camp, you're booting directly, natively into Windows. That means that any game that the hardware supports/supports the hardware on your Mac will work. Some people don't think much of the video drivers on this or that Intel Mac, but you'll probably find that just looking at your Mac's hardware and the game's box will give you all the answers you need.

Good luck.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
silver
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Jan 2, 2008, 06:39 AM
 
Like Gh said when your in XP through bootcamp, XP will recognize your machine as a PC. For the most part, all games should work. But one also has to consider the hardware they plan to use as a gaming machine. My machine is only a 2.16GHZ CD MBP w/ATIx1600 GPU and although Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, HellGate and Madden 08 play well others such as Crysis need more power to make the game look and run good- it runs ok but, doesn't look as good as it should be.

So In short just remember when booted in OS X your using Apple hardware as a Mac running OS X, when booted into XP/Vista your using Apple Hardware as a PC running XP/Vista. This is all thanks to the Intel chips Apple is now using.

Also if your gaming machine is a Macbook or mac mini then gaming wont be that great due to the integrated GPU, although some users have used said machines to run WOW albeit not that great.


Cheers
( Last edited by silver; Jan 2, 2008 at 06:58 AM. )
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 2, 2008, 07:33 AM
 
Silver, new Omega's are out based on Catalyst 7.12

Only XP for now but it looks good. Should be 20-30% faster than the drivers supplied with Boot Camp.
     
silver
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Jan 2, 2008, 05:05 PM
 
Thanks Papernotes, I went to Omegas site a few days ago looking for a version thats based on 7.1.2 but only 7.10 was there. This is great news indeed.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 3, 2008, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by silver View Post
Thanks Papernotes, I went to Omegas site a few days ago looking for a version thats based on 7.1.2 but only 7.10 was there. This is great news indeed.


Cheers
Can you tell if there is a performance improvement with the latest Omegas? I have to wait until Vista one's are released.
     
silver
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Jan 3, 2008, 05:21 PM
 
So far it's been hit or miss, see I've been trying to get COD4 to load on an external 23" but the game keeps crashing. I was using 7.12 through mobilitymodder and had no problems playing games with my second monitor hooked up with the MBP display off. Later today I'll just play on my MBP screen to get some benchmarks.

By the way how do you like Vista for games? I was entertaining the thought of installing that today to see how DX10 works; not to sure if the x1600 can handle it. Any thoughts on DX10/10.1 on an ATI x1600?


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 4, 2008, 06:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by silver View Post
So far it's been hit or miss, see I've been trying to get COD4 to load on an external 23" but the game keeps crashing. I was using 7.12 through mobilitymodder and had no problems playing games with my second monitor hooked up with the MBP display off. Later today I'll just play on my MBP screen to get some benchmarks.

By the way how do you like Vista for games? I was entertaining the thought of installing that today to see how DX10 works; not to sure if the x1600 can handle it. Any thoughts on DX10/10.1 on an ATI x1600?


Cheers
I'm currently using modded 7.12 drivers. COD4 and Crysis run about the same as they did in XP (with Omega 7.9s). UT3 runs faster than it did with XP. I can bump UT3 up to 1280x720 with all settings maxed and its playable (but obviously better at 1024x768).

Racing games are the problem. It's either ATI drivers or Vista's fault that DiRT and Pro Street are jerky as if the whole scenery has to recache in video memory every 1 mile of driving. Under XP there was no problem. If Omega 7.12 doesn't fix that problem I'll have to go back to XP.

DX10 doesn't work with an X1600 so that's out of the question although I have heard of a hack for Crysis that enables Crysis's DX10 features on XP with Direct X 9c running on DX10 cards.
     
kurt.physics  (op)
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Jan 4, 2008, 07:35 PM
 
Thanks everyone, thats great news, just one more question

Which is better, windows XP (latest survice pack) or Vista Ultimate edition, for bootcamp/games on bootcamp?
     
ghporter
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Jan 4, 2008, 07:55 PM
 
XP, hands down. Right now Vista isn't "ready for prime time" with a lot of its features (sorta like Leopard, only with a LOT of things needing a LOT of attention). And not all games are supported on Vista yet, either. Hands down, spend less money and get XP Pro-you'll game better.

(Note that this is my own opinion-and don't be surprised to get completely contradictory advice from others here.)

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
silver
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Jan 4, 2008, 09:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
I'm currently using modded 7.12 drivers. COD4 and Crysis run about the same as they did in XP (with Omega 7.9s). UT3 runs faster than it did with XP. I can bump UT3 up to 1280x720 with all settings maxed and its playable (but obviously better at 1024x768).

Racing games are the problem. It's either ATI drivers or Vista's fault that DiRT and Pro Street are jerky as if the whole scenery has to recache in video memory every 1 mile of driving. Under XP there was no problem. If Omega 7.12 doesn't fix that problem I'll have to go back to XP.

DX10 doesn't work with an X1600 so that's out of the question although I have heard of a hack for Crysis that enables Crysis's DX10 features on XP with Direct X 9c running on DX10 cards.
I played COD4 last night and the Omega Drivers are way better, later this evening I'll do a better benchmark test.

One thing I notice right off the bat is that my MBP runs much more hotter with the Omegas than with the official 7.12 drivers from ATI. Don't have a temp reading, but the w,a,s,d keys where pretty uncomfortable after about 15 minutes into COD4.

I've always used Omegas drivers and they seem to handle overclocking pretty well; I guess I'll just have to get a xBox 360 controller so the finger tips don't melt away.

By the way my ATI x1600 was overclocked to 450/450, left the memory at default but increased core to 450 from 420. So that's more than likely the culprit to my very hot keys. Gonna try stock speeds tonight to see if any difference.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 5, 2008, 06:13 AM
 
Thanks for the info. BTW 450/450 isn't overclocking. The ATI tools included with Omega allows us to manually upclock to the x1600's maximum speed 450 GPU core/470 memory instead of letting it happen automatically. The problem with auto settings is that some games won't up the clock to the max so doing it manually is best. 450/450 is good because at 470Mhz the memory gets hot and unstable in a MBP. I usually use about 450/430 for stability (as you probably know when you set the tool to 470/450 it sets it lower anyway.)

Sadly the XBox controller doesn't work for COD4 on Windows so you're out of luck there. The game won't see the controller because Activision isn't a Games for Windows licensee. Need for Speed games see the controller but don't have rumble support for the same reason

I have clocked Pro Street totally. If anyone wants my savegame file I'll be happy to share. All the tracks have been dominated and I have fully pimped out Lamborghini, Zonda F, Porsche GT2 and Skyline cars. There's also over 200,000 cash left but it's useless because my cars break all records.
     
silver
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Jan 5, 2008, 02:54 PM
 
Ah, I was so hoping that COD4 was xBox 360 gamepad aware. That's cool still enjoying the game. I'll try lowering my mem speed to 430.

I'm a bit under the weather, so don't plan to do any gaming today. In my best yoda voice " Rest you must young Padawan".


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 5, 2008, 04:50 PM
 
Well I went back to XP today. I wanted to shrink the Windows partition from 25GB to 15GB. I restored XP from a back up and it has Omega 7.10 on it. I don't have DSL right now to download the latest but can tell right away that Omega 7.10 on XP is faster than ATI 7.12 on Vista. AND I can play my racing games again!
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 7, 2008, 03:16 PM
 
Hello Folks,

I'm glad I found this forum because I'm wanting to use my new 2.4GHz intel dual iMac to play BIOSHOCK and ORANGE BOX.

So from what you all are doing/saying here I need to:
1. Get Windows XPS2 (not Vista)
2. Use Bootcamp (not Parallels)
3. Get DX10?
4. Need to get a driver for my ATI Radeon HD2600 card?

and this should work? Please advise. Much thanks! I don't know many other people who like to a) play games b) play them on PCs and c) play them on a Mac as a PC.

Best,
Alan
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 7, 2008, 03:51 PM
 
Hi Alan

1. You can use Vista but I would recommend XP until Direct X 10 is ubiquitous.
2. Boot Camp only. There's no other way to game properly except booting into Windows.
3. DX10 is good but you don't need it for Orange Box. BioShock uses minimal DX 10 features.
4. After you install Windows and then the Boot Camp drivers (which include all the hardware drivers for you Mac) download the latest Omega Drivers from omegadrivers.net and use them for your graphics card instead.
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 7, 2008, 03:56 PM
 
This is my Core Duo 2.16 + Radeon X1600 256MB with Omega Drivers 7.10.



Very surprisingly my MacBook Pro with these drivers beat a higher clocked X1600XT and are not that far behind a midrange X1800! The benchmark test included with ATI Tray Tools is multithreaded but never pushes the CPU past 50% so it is mostly on the GPU.

Hats off to Omega for those wicked drivers!
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 7, 2008, 04:43 PM
 
PaperNotes,

Thank you very much for your reply and info. I went to the omegadrives site and checked it out- looks pretty straightforward. Since I'm APPLE all the way, when purchasing WindowsXPS2 which I must do, there is a home, office, pro... any one of these best for games or is Home sufficient?

Thanks,
Alan
     
silver
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Jan 7, 2008, 04:58 PM
 
Welcome to the thread Alan,
Like PaperNotes said after your initial setup, if at all possible do get the omegadrivers they are very good.

You'll like BioShock very fun and the graphics with the omega nice considering this isn't the strongest card for gaming.

Here's a short list of newer games that run pretty good that I've tried so far:
1. HellGate
2. BioShock
3. Crysis
4. COD4
5. Madden 08(sometimes is ok not to shoot at something)


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
silver
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Jan 7, 2008, 05:03 PM
 
Good post PaperNotes. Nice to see that our so called lowly GPU is pretty capable when the proper drivers are applied.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 7, 2008, 05:09 PM
 
Thank you Silver, for the hello, for the list of games and agreement with the omegadriver info.

I play DOOM3 on my iMac and it's awesome- I LOVE it, but as you are telling me, the current gen games are just in a new class and I want in despite not having a PC.

I've got a PS2 and like playing my games on that: Devil May Cry, God of War, GH but for some reason I'd rather play games at my computer, don't know why. Also, this BS with the whole PS3 or XBox360... c'mon- I'd rather side step it all and run the games on my MAC so I'm glad you guys have helped me with info.

Best,
Alan
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 8, 2008, 06:03 PM
 
Again, would anybody be able to tell me if I can do all this with the HOME or OEM WindowsXP SP2 or is XP PRO required for gaming?
     
ghporter
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
Alan, I thought it had been made quite clear. When you boot into Windows on your Mac, you're booting Windows. It works with any Windows XP version (or any Vista version for that matter), and there is no difference between your Mac and a PC once you've booted Windows-except that your Mac is much better integrated and of course much cooler than an PC. Further, unless it's a special OEM version that is somehow different from all the others (Dell OEM versions are reputed to only work on Dell hardware, but I can't swear to that myself), it won't matter if it's an OEM or retail boxed version of XP-just as long as it includes SP2 on the install disc. Does that answer your question?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Remxed
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Jan 8, 2008, 07:51 PM
 
has anyone been able to get the PC version of Gears of War working through bootcamp? That's the only one that doesnt work. It says I need to update my nvidia drivers and crashes when i try to start it up.
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:05 PM
 
ghporter,

Thank you. Yes, I understand when I boot into Windows on my Mac, I'm booting Windows. I think I was too general in my last question. Specifically, given that Windows runs on MAC-that's great... but do games such as BIOSHOCK or ORANGEBOX run well with XP SP2 HOME or have others found it's buggy and runs better with PRO. In real-life terms, I have to go buy WindowsXPSP2 and the Home is simply cheaper and if folks out there are playing COD4 on HOME not PRO just fine then great, I get to save a little bit of money since the Windows PRO is more.
     
silver
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:12 PM
 
Alan,
I've only had experience with XP Pro as my gaming OS, so cant tell you which could be better.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:17 PM
 
Thanks again Silver. I just don't want to go out, get WindowsXP SP2 Home (cause I can save some scratch), buy BIOSHOCK try to run it and then it's all glitchy despite getting the omegadriver as papernotes suggested and then I come back to the forum and somebody might say, oh no, you need the SP2 Pro to really run games... kinda like many here are saying don't get VISTA as it will not run the games as well as XP SP2.
     
silver
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Jan 8, 2008, 08:17 PM
 
PC version of Gears of War works fine here, but then again my GPU is a ATI. For your NVIDIA drivers try the ones here. Omega's stuff are very good compared to the drivers that Apple provides with Boot Camp 2.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
ghporter
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Jan 8, 2008, 09:59 PM
 
For games, there should be no difference between XP Home and XP Pro. The biggest difference between the two has to do with "corporate" features, like networking management and such. For just running games, they should be equivalent. Note that the specs for Bioshock just say "Windows XP"; if there was a difference, they'd have to mention it.

Looking at the video specs, I think that the display subsystem is going to be the make-or-break issue with you playing this game on a Mac-Some Intel Macs have ATI video and others have NVIDIA, so you'll have to check out your hardware to see if it will work. Pretty much like I said in my first reply-except for the logo on the case, when you boot into Windows on a Mac, it IS a PC. Unlike the $400 Best Buy special PC however, you're not going to be able to swap out the video card on most Macs because that (and audio) is on the logic board. Choose your games based on what your hardware is and you'll do fine.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Dark Goob
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Jan 8, 2008, 11:55 PM
 
I have used Steam to get CounterStrike: Source and Day of Defeat: Source. Also Oblivion and Second Life run good on my laptop under Bootcamp with Vista. Bioshock Demo did not work so I did not try the full version. The games ran very well. This was with MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz with NVIDIA 8600M GT.
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 9, 2008, 06:19 AM
 
The first Crysis patch is out and said to improve performance. I'll have to see.
     
solofx7
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Jan 9, 2008, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
The first Crysis patch is out and said to improve performance. I'll have to see.
do you know where i can download the patch at?
     
gpeden
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Jan 9, 2008, 04:46 PM
 
Hi,

I made my craphics performance on the Nvidea improve dramatically by using ones linked from the Apple site specifically for Leopard, even though I'm using Tiger. And although the current setup seems to work great, I'd like to give the Omega's a try. When I went to their site, I noticed that the current drivers do not support notebooks. Anything to worry about?

Also, on XP do I need to remove the current ones, or can they just be disabled? I recall the original effort being a "try it a few times and it finally worked" affair
thanks!

Glen
Cheers!

Glen
     
silver
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Jan 9, 2008, 05:19 PM
 
Glen,
Yes the omegadrivers work well in a laptop, just remember during install when the popup ask if you want to disable overclocking on a laptop just click no. Been using the drivers for over a year now since receiving MBP.

Also I recommend booting into safedisc mode to install the drivers- just hold the F8 key during XP boot.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 9, 2008, 05:40 PM
 
Are any of you running Vista and how is that going for your games/card?

A PC gamer co-worker told me he's okay with Vista... I heard mixed stuff (as I've mentioned above) and was recommended XPSP2...

If I'm going to shell out the cash for an operating system I want to buy the latest one of course is all- but I want the games to work.
     
silver
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Jan 9, 2008, 06:08 PM
 
Alan,
Vista is fine and DX10 is cool, but you have to remember that if your GPU doesn't support DX10 then there's no point as your games will be run in DX9 mode. Hence why I stayed in XPpro as my ATIx1600 doesn't do DX10.

Seeing as you have a HD2600 which is supported by DX10 then I really would consider using Vista but that's just me, I know many die hard gamers that run both and love it.


Cheers
 MBP 17" 2.16ghz, ATI x1600 256, 100GBHD, 2GB ram, 23"AppleLCD
     
ibook_steve
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Jan 9, 2008, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by alanonnnforums View Post
If I'm going to shell out the cash for an operating system I want to buy the latest one of course is all- but I want the games to work.
This logic really does not and should not apply to Microsoft operating systems.

Steve
Celebrating 10 years and 4000 posts on MacNN!
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 9, 2008, 06:21 PM
 
Much thanks Silver and ibook for your time (and humor ibook).
     
PaperNotes
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Jan 10, 2008, 09:23 AM
 
You have to see this to believe it.

I applied the latest Catalyst drivers based on 7.12 today and look at the difference from before:



I thought it must be a mistake so I ran the benchtest twice. Same thing. Then I wanted to see real world game performance. COD4 was about 10% faster. BioShock ran fast and smooth at 1280x720! AND finally Crysis is smooth as butter for the first time and I haven't even applied the 1.1 patch which is said to improve framerates.

OMG
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 10, 2008, 05:09 PM
 
What about Windows XP SP2 Home edition OEM (system builder, not Dell, HP, Acer)... anyone try that?
     
ghporter
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Jan 10, 2008, 07:30 PM
 
System Builder versions are not at all limited-they are in fact the source material from which companies like Dell produce customized versions.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
alanonnnforums
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Jan 18, 2008, 04:50 PM
 
Folks, I got Windows XP SP2 Home Edition 32 bit up and running on my iMac (2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB memory, 320GB hard drive, ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory AND Leopard) via bootcamp and I'm running around BIOSHOCK's Rapture with no problems, COD4 Demo plays fine too.

Thanks for all your help and advice to get the games running on my MAC. Cheers!
     
silver
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Jan 18, 2008, 05:35 PM
 
Glad everything worked out Alan. Have fun gaming!


Cheers
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alanonnnforums
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Jan 24, 2008, 02:19 AM
 
Silver,

You mentioned before you run Crysis. I loaded the omega drivers for my card and then downloaded the demo for Crysis. The start up (logos for cyrtek/nvidia/etc) are a slide show but then once the game menu is up it runs fine. Is this normal? Once I wait through the slide show, stuttering audio until the Crysis game menu it won't run until I ask for it to set up given my system and then it plays fine.

Best,
Alan
     
   
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