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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > MacBook 13 Quandry...wait some more?

MacBook 13 Quandry...wait some more?
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masugu
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May 15, 2011, 01:39 AM
 
Quandary time...

Well, my inaugural Intel Core Duo / original black MacBook is showing its age. Beachballs and degrading plastic.

Wondering if I should wait to replace this with a new 13" AFTER lion is released, after specs bump up (for back to school season) or....a Carbon Fibre version is launched.
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turtle777
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May 15, 2011, 01:41 AM
 
Mac Book Carbon Fibre ?

I haven't heard that rumor. Any info on that ?

-t
     
Big Mac
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May 15, 2011, 01:46 AM
 
How long has it been since the MacBook (non-pro) has gotten any hardware update?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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May 15, 2011, 01:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
How long has it been since the MacBook (non-pro) has gotten any hardware update?
LOOOONG, in May 2010.

I've been waiting for months now.

-t
     
masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 02:15 AM
 
Well...I wanted to get the MacBook Pro 13" Sorry if I was not clear.

I was thinking about the Carbon Fiber coming to tell the truth...but cannot see that happening until 2012.

Therefore the decision is how long do I squeak by with this oldie MacBook before I get a 13" MPB?
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May 15, 2011, 03:41 AM
 
Oh, okay. That makes more sense since I remember the Carbon Fiber rumors MBP recent rumors. I think the MB itself is in Apple Sucker Buyer maintenance mode (where only a sucker would buy it) like the mini was not too long ago before its update.

Most people think the next MBP update will be a major case redesign refresh. If you can stand waiting a full refresh cycle or more, wait. If you need a MBP now, buy now since they were updated not too long ago and are very popular.

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masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 09:18 AM
 
Thanks...I like that "Sucker Mode"

I *think* I can get along for a while. Just hate these darn beach balls on iPhoto and load times for apps like word
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masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Mac Book Carbon Fibre ?

I haven't heard that rumor. Any info on that ?

-t
Apple hired a composite engineer? from a bicycle company. Apparently the guy worked on bike frames and is rumored to be working on carbon fiber enclosures for Apple. Now Carbon FIber has certainly been done by the likes of SONY VAIO of course...but the thought of a sleek MBP 13" in black (again) has me well-chuffed!
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May 15, 2011, 10:33 AM
 
I don't see it happening on the MBP. iPhone is much more likely IMO.
That 'complete case redesign' is also unlikely to be as drastic as anyone seems to think too.
It'll still be aluminium, unibody construction, just thinner with different ports. The optical drive will go eventually too. Probably not next time though. Maybe the one after.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
kenna
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May 15, 2011, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post
Thanks...I like that "Sucker Mode"

I *think* I can get along for a while. Just hate these darn beach balls on iPhoto and load times for apps like word
I have a similar BlackBook which has prompted me to buy a new Mac as well, 3-4 years out of it isn't so bad though... it's more so the Hard Drive space on mine that's lacking.

Sounds good with a carbon fibre body though! But I'm not waiting, I'm taking the plunge and enjoying a top laptop!
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masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 11:15 AM
 
Hmm...Now I can see the logic of the iPhone getting the carbon fiber first. I also recall Apple licensing patents to Liquid Metal technology - the black material in some Omega watch bezels. Perhaps that will be incorporated into phones as well.

Since the new Core i7 13" MBPs just launched...I now think the CPUs may get bumped for a year or so...and perhaps thats it.

Five years with a laptop has to be a record for me. Perhaps I will simply wait for Lion OS - then buy.
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May 15, 2011, 12:02 PM
 
Its difficult to get the same rigidity with carbon fibre that Apple has achieved with the aluminium unibody. I can't stress how useful that rigidity is in helping the reliability of a laptop.

Even if you wrap the CF around a metal frame you are still making the production process more complex and less flexible. By machining and laser cutting aluminium Apple can make useful changes to their production lines in software instead of having to retool. This is the real value of the unibody process for Apple. Excess CF is not as easy to recycle as metal shavings either. It really is a revolutionary process, if anything Apple have underdone it on the hype. I don't see it going anywhere soon. They might change the metal but the process will stay the same.
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May 15, 2011, 02:33 PM
 
i still think the aluminium is sexy.
     
masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 03:03 PM
 
I love the UniBody...don't get me wrong. However, I like basic black as well. If Apple went the carbon fiber route on NBs, I would be interested, but good points all round here.
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May 15, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
One thing that does surprise me a little is that they haven't bothered to experiment with coloured anodising. A unibody MBP in metallic black, red, blue or purple would look pretty awesome.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 05:21 PM
 
Well...I think the minimalist influence will continue as long as Steve is phoning in direction. There is so much flexibility and cost reduction by limiting and/or eliminating colors / options etc. for Apple margins.
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May 15, 2011, 07:18 PM
 
I recommend that folks looking for small displays, light weight and low powered boxes wait to see what Apple has planned for the Macbook Air Sandy Bridge updates.
     
masugu  (op)
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May 15, 2011, 11:25 PM
 
I know the Air will be too limiting for me. I would consider going 15 inch again...and get the extra power, but I like the lighter 13 too much. I do some photo shop, but no Apeture et al which would require the additional graphics power.
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SierraDragon
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May 20, 2011, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post
I know the Air will be too limiting for me. ...I like the lighter 13 too much. I do some photo shop, but no Apeture et al which would require the additional graphics power
How could you possibly know that the air will be too limiting? We have not seen Sandy Bridge MBAs yet. I can envision all kinds of cool solutions Apple could come up with. Some radical solutions, like a dock; but even if they just make small incremental improvements and use the latest tech MBAs could be way cool.

Sandy Bridge CPU performances so far have been very strong, Thunderbolt takes care of i/o and without Aperture the integrated graphics should be fine for Adobe apps. SSDs already rock the old MBAs. We do not know how much RAM will be available, or display quality/size, so those we do need to see, but you already accept the 13" glare display so odds are you will be ok with the display.

The only thing that might be limiting that we can pre-judge IMO is the optical drive. If you insist on having a built-in Superdrive then an MBA probably will not be for you. Personally I will be removing the optical drive in my MBP and adding either a fast hard drive or (more likely) a second SSD.

SSDs rock! I cannot say enough good things about SSDs, especially in laptops.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; May 20, 2011 at 11:30 AM. )
     
SierraDragon
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May 20, 2011, 11:32 AM
 
Hmm, the Apple Store appears to be down...

Nothing exciting, it looks like a reduction in iPad2 pricing.
( Last edited by SierraDragon; May 20, 2011 at 11:43 AM. )
     
CharlesS
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May 20, 2011, 05:14 PM
 
I think now is a good time to get a MBP. The next version has a high likelihood of doing the Bondi iMac thing and removing a bunch of "legacy" components that eventually won't be missed anymore once the rest of the market catches up, but will be a PITA not to have in the short term. The current MBPs have not only the newfangled Thunderbolt port but also the optical drive and FW800 so your old stuff can still work. It's the best of both worlds, really.

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May 21, 2011, 01:02 PM
 
Just moved from a 13 inch Core Duo 2.0, to the 2.7 i7 13 inch. This thing is amazing. Though you do noticed the non SSD drive a lot. Other than that it's smoking!
     
masugu  (op)
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May 22, 2011, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
How could you possibly know that the air will be too limiting? We have not seen Sandy Bridge MBAs yet. I can envision all kinds of cool solutions Apple could come up with. Some radical solutions, like a dock; but even if they just make small incremental improvements and use the latest tech MBAs could be way cool.


The only thing that might be limiting that we can pre-judge IMO is the optical drive. If you insist on having a built-in Superdrive then an MBA probably will not be for you. Personally I will be removing the optical drive in my MBP and adding either a fast hard drive or (more likely) a second SSD.

SSDs rock! I cannot say enough good things about SSDs, especially in laptops.

-Allen
Yes...I do want the built in Super Drive...Would love SSD, but price / performance is not there yet IMO.

Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
I think now is a good time to get a MBP. The next version has a high likelihood of doing the Bondi iMac thing and removing a bunch of "legacy" components that eventually won't be missed anymore once the rest of the market catches up, but will be a PITA not to have in the short term. The current MBPs have not only the newfangled Thunderbolt port but also the optical drive and FW800 so your old stuff can still work. It's the best of both worlds, really.
Hmm...That's an interesting perspective. Wonder if it is not in "sucker mode" then. I need to see what the next CPU bump will be...I imagine it may happen in Back to school selling season, or holiday.

The more I read / research, I do think Carbon Fiber is a ways away.
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May 23, 2011, 01:50 PM
 
One strategy in upgrading is to wait for the new models to come out. First, you'll be able to assess the new features and speed to see if you'll benefit, next you'll be able to get the newly-old models at sometimes very steep discounts.

That's the point at which you'll be able to make an informed decision.
     
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May 23, 2011, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post
Yes...I do want the built in Super Drive...Would love SSD, but price / performance is not there yet IMO.
To me, that clinches it — you should get a current model. Obviously, we don't really know at this point, but there's a lot of speculation out there that the upcoming redesign will involve removing the optical drive. Given the direction Apple has been moving for a while with moving everything towards online purchases and downloads, it wouldn't be too surprising.

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masugu  (op)
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May 27, 2011, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
One strategy in upgrading is to wait for the new models to come out. First, you'll be able to assess the new features and speed to see if you'll benefit, next you'll be able to get the newly-old models at sometimes very steep discounts.

That's the point at which you'll be able to make an informed decision.
Sound advice...tough to follow since I have been plagued by more and more spinning beachballs these days as well as odd PC-esque freeze ups.

Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
To me, that clinches it — you should get a current model. Obviously, we don't really know at this point, but there's a lot of speculation out there that the upcoming redesign will involve removing the optical drive. Given the direction Apple has been moving for a while with moving everything towards online purchases and downloads, it wouldn't be too surprising.
Tough one...CDs still load big ass apps like PhotoShop etc...but if I really think about my usage habits, apart from app installs and occasional CD burning, I don't use the internal drive THAT much.

No...I should wait dammit...minimally until Back to School selling season / June 15 WWDC is over.
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May 27, 2011, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
One thing that does surprise me a little is that they haven't bothered to experiment with coloured anodising. A unibody MBP in metallic black, red, blue or purple would look pretty awesome.
YES! It seems like such a total no-brainer for them to offer colourful, anodised MacBook Pros that I really can’t understand why they haven’t done it yet. I’m pretty sure people would gladly fork over an extra £50 to get one in black, or purple, or lime-green, or… >eyes glaze over and begins to drool<
     
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May 27, 2011, 01:36 PM
 
Pick your poison. Personally, I don't think the metal products look good colored, but YMMV.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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May 27, 2011, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Koralatov View Post
YES! It seems like such a total no-brainer for them to offer colourful, anodised MacBook Pros that I really can’t understand why they haven’t done it yet. I’m pretty sure people would gladly fork over an extra £50 to get one in black, or purple, or lime-green, or… >eyes glaze over and begins to drool<
"Inventory management" have a meaning to you?

The coloured iMacs were a nightmare, and there were only SIX of those. Apple tried to force dealers to buy equal numbers of all, for a while.

So, assuming five colours, with the ProBooks, instead of five stock models, you're looking at twenty-five, and you better be damn sure you ordered the right quantities of the right colours, because if you're stuck with two dozen of that purple one nobody wanted even though the staff loved it, come new models, you're not gonna move them until you cut them down to 60% - at considerable loss.
     
masugu  (op)
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May 27, 2011, 06:02 PM
 
Spot on.

Inventory management. Apple refuses (thank god) to go the route of PC folks by offering cheezy snap on lids etc. for color "customization." I like the Aluminum, black, white monochromatic approach myself...

I think I want to wait for LION to be preloaded on the MBPs and for perhaps one more CPU bump. So minimally, I am likely looking at end of summer...
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May 27, 2011, 09:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post
...Would love SSD, but price / performance is not there yet IMO.
SSDs provide a huge real-world operational improvement for all users, not just those of us cramming heavy graphics apps. IMO price/performance IS very much there on MBPs (only adds $100 cost) and on MBAs. One just has to manage data to keep the archival stuff on external drives, enabling 128 GB inexpensive SSD usage. Or with the MBPs install a 750 GB drive in the optical drive slot if one insists on carrying large amounts of data in the box for silly things like maintaining huge totally unnecessary (Managed-Masters) Aperture Libraries.

Agreed on iMacs price/performance is not there yet - unless one buys a 2010 iMac bargain and retrofits an SSD.

-Allen
     
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May 27, 2011, 09:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post
...I have been plagued by more and more spinning beachballs these days as well as odd PC-esque freeze ups.
Sounds like an overfilled (>~70% or so) hard drive or a failing hard drive. Backup backup backup, now. Maybe run an app like Disk Warrior or otherwise see if you can get a sense of impending drive failure. If so, replace with a larger drive and you may see a nice performance improvement.

-Allen
     
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May 28, 2011, 05:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by masugu View Post

I think I want to wait for LION to be preloaded on the MBPs and for perhaps one more CPU bump. So minimally, I am likely looking at end of summer...
A short wait for Lion makes sense to me. It's time to trade in my TIbook pretty soon for a MBP. Note that users can change battery, disk drive, RAM, etc with the MBP but not the iMacs or some others. That could well change with the next revision.
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May 28, 2011, 05:37 AM
 
I would never wait for the next OS release and then buy immediately. If anything, I would wait until it's announced and I can get a free upgrade. But it's always a good idea to stick with the tried and true for a while - if you need your machine to get work done.

If it's just a toy, wait and then pounce.

But until I know for sure that my device drivers and crucial software will work (or have been updated), 10.6 is an awesome OS.
     
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May 28, 2011, 05:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I would never wait for the next OS release and then buy immediately. If anything, I would wait until it's announced and I can get a free upgrade.
Thanks Spheric. How does the timing work for that?
They announce the new OS.
I buy the MBP (which will ship with the old OS).
Then I ask for the new OS (which will come on DVD)
- and I can change whenever I want.
And that DVD might even update my iMac(?!?)
Wow, I think I answered my own question.

… But there's a chance my MBP will come with the new OS …
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May 28, 2011, 06:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
"Inventory management" have a meaning to you?

The coloured iMacs were a nightmare, and there were only SIX of those. Apple tried to force dealers to buy equal numbers of all, for a while.

So, assuming five colours, with the ProBooks, instead of five stock models, you're looking at twenty-five, and you better be damn sure you ordered the right quantities of the right colours, because if you're stuck with two dozen of that purple one nobody wanted even though the staff loved it, come new models, you're not gonna move them until you cut them down to 60% - at considerable loss.
So make it a CTO option and send colour samples (just bits of metal) to retail stores.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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May 28, 2011, 06:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by bugs View Post
Thanks Spheric. How does the timing work for that?
They announce the new OS.
I buy the MBP (which will ship with the old OS).
Then I ask for the new OS (which will come on DVD)
- and I can change whenever I want.
Basically, yes. Except it may not come on DVD.

There will probably be a minimal fee involved with getting the upgrade (no idea how it will work through the App Store), but who cares.
Originally Posted by bugs View Post
And that DVD might even update my iMac(?!?)
Not legally, no.
     
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May 28, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by bugs View Post
Then I ask for the new OS (which will come on DVD)
I think that Apple wants to phase out the optical drive on all portables, period. The iPad never had a disc drive and never will. The Air never had a disc drive and never will.

The MacBooks are coming after that... and with all hard drive sizes becoming appreciably larger, the way you refresh the MacBooks in the future will probably be through a reserved Installation partition where the installer is maintained, from which one can boot. (Or one can download the .dmg and then create the partition, etc.)
     
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May 28, 2011, 08:33 PM
 
This site shows how long it has been since an update: Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy Your Mac, iPod or iPhone
Macbook's are due to be updated soon. Also the Back to School bundle usually allows a free iPod Touch to go along with it and these are due to be rolled out soon.
     
   
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