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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > TiBook conducts electricity

TiBook conducts electricity
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zarvox
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Nov 11, 2001, 12:25 AM
 
I wonder if other owners of TiBook experience the same problem.... Everytime I recharge the battery, I can feel the Titanium casing conducts electricity. It is more obvious along the screen edges. The electric current is not too high to give me a shock, but enough to make me worry about my data.

I am in Singapore, using 220V and proper grounding.
     
mrtew
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Nov 11, 2001, 02:02 AM
 
I would worry too! I've never felt anything here at 100V. Scary!

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
seanyepez
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Nov 11, 2001, 02:18 AM
 
I feel it here in the United States on two different TiBooks: 667 and 500. I feel it only on my cheek and jaw, probably more sensitive body parts to electric current.
     
The Dude
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Nov 11, 2001, 03:06 AM
 
I'll give $5 to anyone who is willing to lick their TiBook while it's charging.

     
seanyepez
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Nov 11, 2001, 06:38 AM
 
I licked it. Nothing happened. Where's my $5?
     
Trygve
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Nov 11, 2001, 07:29 PM
 
How serious a problem is this?

I am considering buying a TiBook or iBook but can't decide which one. i am leaning toward the TiBook for the faster speed and more screen real estate. It will be my only machine.

I will buy it in the US, but use it in Georgia (former Soviet Union). The power there is 220 but is a bit unstable. Are Ti's shocking people at 220?

Thanks,

Trygve
     
TonyRado
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Nov 11, 2001, 08:40 PM
 
EVERY SINGLE TIME i use my Ti "at work" I get a nice swift shock when I touch it. (As to intensity: Put it this way, you can keep your $5 b/c I would NOT lick it). It really irritated me at first, but I thought maybe since it was Febraury I figured that it was just static and would stop in the spring. Didn't happen - Got shocked all summer long. Of course Apple Support was helpful as always - NOT. I am wondering if it is b/c the wiring is old in my building b/c it doesn't happen any place else
     
<israces>
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Nov 11, 2001, 08:59 PM
 
This used to happen to me everyday as well. I noticed it when my wrists and hands would hurt after typing all day at work. I could feel the "current" in my hands. After a while I figured it was mostly due to static electricity from really dry office air and me rubbing my hands over a metal surface all day. Anyone up on their Physics and can explain this better?
     
<israces>
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Nov 11, 2001, 09:00 PM
 
This used to happen to me everyday as well. I noticed it when my wrists and hands would hurt after typing all day at work. I could feel the "current" in my hands. After a while I figured it was mostly due to static electricity from really dry office air and me rubbing my hands over a metal surface all day. Anyone up on their Physics and can explain this better?
     
[APi]TheMan
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Nov 11, 2001, 09:18 PM
 
Originally posted by The Dude:
<STRONG>I'll give $5 to anyone who is willing to lick their TiBook while it's charging.

</STRONG>
hehe, I second that. Has anyone tried looking on Apple support pages for warnings with higher voltages?

Maybe you could buy a power converter or something...
"In Nomine Patris, Et Fili, Et Spiritus Sancti"

     
murbot
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Nov 11, 2001, 10:12 PM
 
Well thanks alot.

My wife already gives me hell for spending more time with my PowerBook than I do with her.... and now she just caught me licking the damn thing. Just what I need, a jealous wife.

BTW I didn't get a shock, and never have.

$5 please.

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: murbot ]
................
     
scarab
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Nov 11, 2001, 10:49 PM
 
Some Apple guys have narrowed it down to the power adapter. I know some of the Apple Singapore guys who are using the Madsonline adapter instead of the Apple-supplied one. Are you using the new square adapter or the yo-yo one? The yo-yo apparently had some grounding problems.
     
emil
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Nov 11, 2001, 11:09 PM
 
if it's a problem with the adapter then it should affect ibook users too, no? i can see the possibilty of there being grounding issues, being as how it is a two-prong plug ...
     
israces
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Nov 11, 2001, 11:24 PM
 
I heard about the yo-yo adapter having a ground loop issue, but I got the shock even with the Ti unplugged. That's why I'm of the static electric opinion. But, just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to test the adapter for leakage? If detected, how hard to fix? Just add a ground prong or an unequal blade?
Backup your Backup
     
zarvox  (op)
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Nov 11, 2001, 11:38 PM
 
Originally posted by Trygve:
<STRONG> The power there is 220 but is a bit unstable. Are Ti's shocking people at 220?

Thanks,

Trygve</STRONG>
It happens whenever I accidentaly touch the metal besides the screen with the inside of my arms... basically the more sensitive parts of the arms.

Whenever I connect the TiBook to an external monitor, the problem gets worse - it actually starts to shock me

I'll *never* want to lick my laptop, you perverts
     
zarvox  (op)
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Nov 11, 2001, 11:44 PM
 
Originally posted by scarab:
<STRONG>Are you using the new square adapter or the yo-yo one? The yo-yo apparently had some grounding problems.</STRONG>
I use the yo-yo with three-prong plug.

How serious a problem is this? I can live with a little bit of electricity shocks, but I can't afford to lose my data just because of this.
     
<oeyvind>
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Nov 12, 2001, 03:15 AM
 
Originally posted by zarvox:
<STRONG>

I use the yo-yo with three-prong plug.

How serious a problem is this? I can live with a little bit of electricity shocks, but I can't afford to lose my data just because of this.</STRONG>
the yo yo adapter does not have ground (the 3 prong 13A UK plug is unless-no ground wire to the AC)! Anyway the Gigabit Ti Book still have the shock problem but much much less than the rev A Ti Book.

You will still get shock even using the Madsonline adapter as it's also not ground.
     
<dfgdfg>
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Nov 12, 2001, 05:30 AM
 
I don't think there's any reason to expect data loss. There's just a small voltage differential between the machine and ground. Bizarre problem to have if you're a human, but I'm sure the machine could care less.

Alex
     
The Dude
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Nov 12, 2001, 06:02 AM
 
The checks are in the mail.



I'm surprised no one got shocked!
     
scarab
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Nov 12, 2001, 07:24 AM
 
Well if it isn't the adapter's fault, then the problem is going to be even more difficult to solve. I guess this was one of the reasons why I've been sticking to my Pismo...
     
Titania's Oberon
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Nov 12, 2001, 11:35 AM
 
Yes, sticking to (but not licking to) Wallstreet and Pismo.

However... have you guys ruled out the static possibility...

Like touching something to ground yourself before touching Titanium?
With dry winter weather and wool socks, touching even the trackpad can give a *visible* spark: so i like to "surf barefoot" - or be sure to touch the wife (ha ha) before touch the PB.

Have you blokes tried grounding out the static? (or loosing the wool socks?)
     
schmoe
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Nov 12, 2001, 12:23 PM
 
Well, I use my TiG4 667 with a USB keyboard, but I've touched the metal around the screen and keyboard and can't detect any sort of static or electricity.
     
TiG4
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Nov 12, 2001, 12:35 PM
 
Hi,

Here's a picture indicating electricity on the Powerbook: http://homepage.mac.com/gilbertchong...20charge00.JPG

There was once when I felt a little shock when I touched the surface where the Apple logo appears.
And up till now, (10 months), I have not experienced any loss data.
Gil
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KellyHogan
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Nov 12, 2001, 12:42 PM
 
My theory is that this is electrical leakage from the battery through the joins along the side of the casing (where the white trim meets the titanium base). This only applies to Revision A Ti-Books. Can anyone do this little test to see if I am right?

Put the Ti-Book on a desk. Sit down on a chair and rest your elbow on the desk and touch the front left corner of the Ti-Book with your bare elbow. Do you feel any sharp but small leakage?
     
schmoe
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Nov 12, 2001, 01:05 PM
 
Well, I use my TiG4 667 with a USB keyboard, but I've touched the metal around the screen and keyboard and can't detect any sort of static or electricity.
     
TonyRado
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Nov 12, 2001, 01:13 PM
 
Nothing . . . however my secretary just walked in and now thinks I am trying to mainline my Ti.
     
IUJHJSDHE
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Nov 12, 2001, 01:43 PM
 
Originally posted by &lt;israces&gt;:
<STRONG>This used to happen to me everyday as well. I noticed it when my wrists and hands would hurt after typing all day at work.</STRONG>
If you type that much you hands and wrists will start to hurt, It has nothing to do with electrics!

Hmm are you guys sure your not just feeling the 100 to 120 Degree heat on some Tibooks!

They do get very hot!
     
IUJHJSDHE
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Nov 12, 2001, 01:50 PM
 
Originally posted by KellyHogan:
<STRONG>My theory is that this is electrical leakage from the battery through the joins along the side of the casing (where the white trim meets the titanium base). This only applies to Revision A Ti-Books. Can anyone do this little test to see if I am right?

Put the Ti-Book on a desk. Sit down on a chair and rest your elbow on the desk and touch the front left corner of the Ti-Book with your bare elbow. Do you feel any sharp but small leakage?</STRONG>
uhh....... NO!

I don't want to shock myself when I can avoid it!
Here try this plan, I will give you 5$ if you do this test!

People are suckers for a small 5$ bills

So c'mon free 5$'s for a mild ZAP!!!
     
aehaas
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Nov 12, 2001, 02:08 PM
 
Most a/c chargers are low voltage with outputs of 12 to 24 volts. This is the only voltage that goes from the adapter to your PBook. People cannot feel anything less than at least 40 to 60 volts.


Titanium is actually a relatively poor conductor. It is about 1/20 th heat conductive as copper and 1/25 th the electrical conductor.

ali
MBP 3.06 8G RAM 500G HD, 8 core 3.0 8G RAM 8800GT all OEM Apple. Where to buy Polarion HID Searchlights
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IUJHJSDHE
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Nov 12, 2001, 02:22 PM
 
Originally posted by aehaas:
<STRONG>Most a/c chargers are low voltage with outputs of 12 to 24 volts. This is the only voltage that goes from the adapter to your PBook. People cannot feel anything less than at least 40 to 60 volts.


Titanium is actually a relatively poor conductor. It is about 1/20 th heat conductive as copper and 1/25 th the electrical conductor.

ali</STRONG>
I think the Tibook heat is going to their head!
If that is true you might just be thinking your geting a shock or somthing?
     
absmiths
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Nov 12, 2001, 03:01 PM
 
I have had my Ti 667 for over a week now, with some pretty heavy use in many different settings, and can state unequivocally that I have never been shocked in any way, shape or form!
     
TonyRado
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Nov 12, 2001, 04:41 PM
 
I just got zapped and I actually "heard it" through my external speakers! This time it was, in fact, the white trim over the battery that got me.

Titanium is actually a relatively poor conductor. It is about 1/20 th heat conductive as copper and 1/25 th the electrical conductor.
Dunno, maybe it's the metallic paint that's causing all the problems.
     
<sdfdsfdfs>
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Nov 12, 2001, 05:50 PM
 
Originally posted by aehaas:
<STRONG>Most a/c chargers are low voltage with outputs of 12 to 24 volts. This is the only voltage that goes from the adapter to your PBook. People cannot feel anything less than at least 40 to 60 volts.</STRONG>
Hm, someone's obviously never tried licking a 9-volt battery. (Try it, it's fun! Impress the chicks by being your own battery tester, too.)

Besides, doesn't the inverter for the display light throw that voltage up to a much higher value? All bets are off.

Alex
     
oeyvind
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Nov 12, 2001, 09:41 PM
 
Originally posted by &lt;oeyvind&gt;:
<STRONG>

the yo yo adapter does not have ground (the 3 prong 13A UK plug is unless-no ground wire to the AC)! Anyway the Gigabit Ti Book still have the shock problem but much much less than the rev A Ti Book.

You will still get shock even using the Madsonline adapter as it's also not ground.</STRONG>
Here's some pict of the Yo-Yo... no ground!

Yo Yo AC Adapter - Note: No ground pin!
     
bugs
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Nov 15, 2001, 02:29 AM
 
Originally posted by &lt;sdfdsfdfs&gt;:
<STRONG>
Besides, doesn't the inverter for the display light throw that voltage up to a much higher value? All bets are off.
Alex</STRONG>
I bet that's it- flourescent light power supply. Difficult to shield.

Got my 667 today. I don't feel shock with hands but do with more sensitive skin areas (haven't tried tongue yet). Definitely a high voltage, high frequency shock from any metal surface of the Ti.
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oeyvind
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Nov 15, 2001, 09:49 AM
 
A new finding: I'm in Seoul, South Korea right now, and I'm please to say here where the current is 220V/60Hz, I don't feel the usual electric current as I do when I'm in Singapore (230V/50Hz) and Malaysia (240V/50Hz).

PB G4 667
     
<Trygve>
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Nov 15, 2001, 12:10 PM
 
So is it a 50Hz / 60Hz thing? Are you sure Korea is 60Hz?

I will be using it on 220/50 in Georgia.

Anyone else not fell it at 50Hz?

Thanks,

Trygve
     
<Trygve>
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Nov 15, 2001, 12:12 PM
 
Is this shock a one time thing like touching a doorknob in the winter, or is it a continuous tingling?

If it allows shocks at 50Hz, this sure seems like a design flaw to me.

Trygve
     
oeyvind
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Nov 16, 2001, 12:26 AM
 
Originally posted by &lt;Trygve&gt;:
<STRONG>So is it a 50Hz / 60Hz thing? Are you sure Korea is 60Hz?

I will be using it on 220/50 in Georgia.

Anyone else not fell it at 50Hz?

Thanks,

Trygve</STRONG>
Pretty sure... it's 60Hz here in South Korea.
     
TonyRado
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Nov 16, 2001, 03:55 PM
 
It is a quick sharp zap. Sometimes stronger than others. I'm not sure what everyone means when they say they can "feel the current." Maybe they are just feeling the vibrations from the HDspinning?

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: TonyRado ]
     
   
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