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Mallrat · Oct 23, 2003, 04:55 PM

I went to look at the G3 ibooks to look at the screen size.

the 12inch seemed sharp, but the 14inch seemed fuzzy.

My guess is that the LCD can support a higher resoltuion, but apple limits it as not to take away from powerbook sales.

I don't know if the ibook G4 screens are better or panther will fix it, but now I'm thinking the 12inch is the way to go.

Anyone else noticed this about the screen?

Thank you.

nagromme · Oct 23, 2003, 05:52 PM

Every LCD has only a single res, and all others will look quite blurry (slightly worse than CRT--OK only for some games or people with poor eyesight).

Apple would NEVER ship a laptop incapable of running native res--nobody would stand for it for a second.

So what are you seeing? One of the things, I suspect:

* Smaller does look a bit sharperin some ways, so compared to the 12", you may be noticing that effect.

* Perhaps that unit was set to a non-standard res, like 800x600.

Basically, though the 14" should be VERY sharp, like any Apple LCD, and very readable.

Mallrat · Oct 23, 2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by nagromme:
Every LCD has only a single res, and all others will look quite blurry (slightly worse than CRT--OK only for some games or people with poor eyesight).

Apple would NEVER ship a laptop incapable of running native res--nobody would stand for it for a second.

So what are you seeing? One of the things, I suspect:

* Smaller does look a bit sharperin some ways, so compared to the 12", you may be noticing that effect.

* Perhaps that unit was set to a non-standard res, like 800x600.

Basically, though the 14" should be VERY sharp, like any Apple LCD, and very readable.

It was set at the right setting. I've notice this before. But today I paid close attention.

I went to 3 places and looked at them all.

I looked at the dock and then I used iPhoto as my test.

and to my eye, the 12 inch looked sharp, while I would call the 14 fuzzy, a bit out of sharp focus.

amazing · Oct 23, 2003, 07:51 PM

Both the iBooks and the 12" AlBooks use XGA TFT displays, which aren't as sharp as TFT displays in the Titaniums and the 15" and 17" AlBooks. The 12" XGA display looks sharper than the same XGA display on the 14" because the smaller size "concentrates" the pixels (that's the only way I can think of saying it? Smaller is sharper?)

Then, when you use software like Safari that doesn't handle type very well, you get really fuzzy results. The difference between Safari and IE (using Tinkertool) on my Titanium is really unbearable to my eyes: Safari is so fuzzy I get eye fatigue.

On an XGA display, the difference between Safari and IE isn't as noticeable because the display is fuzzier to begin with. I suspect that Safari on a 12" iBook would be more bearable than on the 14".

Luca Rescigno · Oct 24, 2003, 12:19 AM

amazing, there's no difference between an XGA TFT display and a TFT display running at 1024x768, because they're the same thing. XGA is just a fancy way of saying 1024x768. By the same token, the 17" PowerBook uses a WSXGA LCD - WSXGA is 1440x900.

So, XGA is just a way of describing the native resolution of the display.

TFT means thin-film transistor, which is what makes up an LCD. A TFT LCD is another name for an active-matrix LCD. Dual-scan or passive matrix LCDs are really bad. Often times they're dim, low in contrast, and they might vary in brightness across the surface. But the last passive matrix LCD Apple used was in 1998.

C-Bear · Oct 24, 2003, 02:07 AM

If you do a custom calibration, paying particular attention to the gamma setting and choosing the "uncorrected" or "PC" options, you may notice a distinct improvement in the crispness of the 14" (or any) screen.

Link · Oct 24, 2003, 05:52 AM

there are rumors the 14" and 12" displays have the same DPI, but the native resolution is disabled....

Odd? Yes.. agreed. Odd.

I wonder what you'd get if you were able to find the model number of the LCD apple uses in those ibooks.

piot · Oct 24, 2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by rushmore:
I went to 3 places and looked at them all.

Crikey guys....get a grip!

Do the math(s).

There are approx. 8359 pixels per square inch of screen on the 14 inch iBook.

And about 11378 pixels per square inch on the 12 incher.

Thats over 3000 pixels more!
Which square inch is going to look sharper?

The 14 inch is sharp.
The 12 inch is sharper!

FlatLyna · Oct 24, 2003, 08:53 AM

I found the display on my 12" iBook clearer than the 15" on my iMac G4 - Its not that it was sharper, after all on both screens the pixels are made up of the 3 coloured subpixels, I just think that the higher DPI of the 12" display looked better overall. The sub pixel anti-aliasing was certainly better to my eye.

elvis2000 · Oct 24, 2003, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by amazing:
Both the iBooks and the 12" AlBooks use XGA TFT displays, which aren't as sharp as TFT displays in the Titaniums and the 15" and 17" AlBooks. The 12" XGA display looks sharper than the same XGA display on the 14" because the smaller size "concentrates" the pixels (that's the only way I can think of saying it? Smaller is sharper?)

Then, when you use software like Safari that doesn't handle type very well, you get really fuzzy results. The difference between Safari and IE (using Tinkertool) on my Titanium is really unbearable to my eyes: Safari is so fuzzy I get eye fatigue.

On an XGA display, the difference between Safari and IE isn't as noticeable because the display is fuzzier to begin with. I suspect that Safari on a 12" iBook would be more bearable than on the 14".

The day Apple finally pairs a quality high-res TFT with their laptops is the day OSX font smoothing becomes a nice feature.

elvis2000 · Oct 24, 2003, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Link:
there are rumors the 14" and 12" displays have the same DPI, but the native resolution is disabled....

Odd? Yes.. agreed. Odd.

I wonder what you'd get if you were able to find the model number of the LCD apple uses in those ibooks.

*Mac Users*! Do you actually believe this?

Mallrat · Oct 26, 2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by elvis2000:
The day Apple finally pairs a quality high-res TFT with their laptops is the day OSX font smoothing becomes a nice feature.

What is that font smoothing all about... I play with it and it seems to do nothing.

I agree about fonts and icons not appearing sharp.

I dont' know if its the screen or the operating system.

I wondering if OS 9 would make it look sharper.

But I do agree about the 14inch not looking as good as the 12. If only they made it a higher resolution. That would be nice.

Or better yet, give us that 13.3 widescreen.

Link · Oct 26, 2003, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by elvis2000:
*Mac Users*! Do you actually believe this?

Believe me I didn't.. but then again I've never seen a 14" and a 12" side by side so it'd be hard to say if it's just simply a 14" screen that maxes at 1024x768 (very likely), or a 14" that maxes at 1280x1024 but for reasons to make the PB look better.. only does 1024x768 (not very likely.. but not unlikely either)

fraeone · Oct 26, 2003, 02:31 PM

No WAY is the 14" running in a non-native resolution, it would look way crappier if it was.

Yeah the answer is simple, 1024 x 768 = 786,432 pixels. You spread those out over a larger amount of space, and they're not as dense, which means the image they produce is not as sharp.

It's like trying to print an 11x14 image from a 1 Megapixel camera, it just comes apart and looks unsharp.

After hearing all the complaints about the 12" PB/ibook screens, I was amazed at their clarity and quality. I then realized that I have been looking at the same XGA resolution on a 14.2" Dell laptop, the equivalent of the 14" ibook screen.

Simple math, not a conspiracy.

Colonel Panic · Oct 26, 2003, 03:07 PM

yes, for sure. take a look at a low DPI screen like a 500Mhz tibook @ 1152x768. it will also seem "fuzzy" compared to higher resolution 15 inch screens.

that is all that is going on here.

Mallrat · Oct 26, 2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
yes, for sure. take a look at a low DPI screen like a 500Mhz tibook @ 1152x768. it will also seem "fuzzy" compared to higher resolution 15 inch screens.

that is all that is going on here.

Ok, well this all makes sense.

so for 14 inch owners do you like your screen?

I mean if I moved to a 14 inch and didn't have a 12 inch to compare it too, after awhile I'm sure it woud look fine.

ryaxnb · Oct 27, 2003, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by rushmore:
Ok, well this all makes sense.

so for 14 inch owners do you like your screen?

I mean if I moved to a 14 inch and didn't have a 12 inch to compare it too, after awhile I'm sure it woud look fine.

I'm fine with my 14" screen. iBook G3/900 14".

Scooterboy · Oct 27, 2003, 01:30 AM

I just see no benefit, screen real estate-wise, of moving from a 12" to a 14" iBook. And the decreased pixel density yields a screen less sharp than the 12" I'm using now.
If Apple offered top of the range iBooks in both screen sizes, I would have the choice and I would buy myself a new 12" iBook G4. As things stand at the moment it's a no sale.

My 600 MHz iBook G3 was top of the range with the exception of screen size when I bought it. I love the form factor and especially the sharp, bright screen. I don't see why I should give up these features just to get the top performing iBook G4.