[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Actually, that's not entirely correct. I was left handed pre-elemetary school. But, was forced into being Rt handed by my teachers. It didn't take long and I was entirely Rt handed.

This explains a lot of things.

[Logic]

Originally posted by BRussell:
And there is obviously diversity in American Christianity. I go to a mainline protestant church in a very conservative state, and yet the pastor performs gay commitment ceremonies, openly derides creationism, protested the Iraq war, and is some kind of fellow of the Jesus seminar (historical rather than literalist approach to the Bible). And there are a lot more like him. In every large community in the US there are liberal, non-fundamentalist (actually, IMO, truly fundamentalist) Christian churches.

Yup, like I said there are those as well and that is good.

It just seems like the (as I like to call them) American "Christians" are the more powerful crowd and have more influence than the true Christians. And that is IMO just as scary as OBL and his fellow "Muslims" getting more recruits and more influence.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
Perhaps the anti-gay crowd could answer this.

Did you make a conscious choice of falling in love with women? Did you make a conscious choice to have sex with women? Could you if you decided have sex with someone of the same sex? Is it just your "morals" and "ethics" that stop you from having sex with people of the same sex?

what's your point?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
what's your point?

Your natural inclination and attraction to the opposite sex is no different that inclination and attraction to the same sex homosexuals feel.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Your natural inclination and attraction to the opposite sex is no different that inclination and attraction to the same sex homosexuals feel.

Thank you

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Your natural inclination and attraction to the opposite sex is no different that inclination and attraction to the same sex homosexuals feel.

I know his point...it is a loaded question. There is no natural inclination to be attracted to the same sex. As there is no proof that homosexuality is genetic.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Good answer. I am impressed.

But, um...will you be making those donations?

No I won't. The people you listed, as most people, made whatever "improvements" they made through good will and self-sacrifice. As much as you'd like to believe it, those attributes are not owned by Christianity, nor any other religion. Again, I ask, who has either improved themselves or others through the teachings of Christianity? If you're answer is again, in short, "good deeds," the next question is why do we need religion at all? I know many, many people who are in no way religious yet sacrifice and do good deeds daily.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I know his point...it is a loaded question. There is no natural inclination to be attracted to the same sex.

Yeah, as a heterosexual YOU'D know...

Originally posted by dcolton:
As there is no proof that homosexuality is genetic.

And none that it's environment based.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
No I won't. The people you listed, as most people, made whatever "improvements" they made through good will and self-sacrifice. As much as you'd like to believe it, those attributes are not owned by Christianity, nor any other religion. Again, I ask, who has either improved themselves or others through the teachings of Christianity? If you're answer is again, in short, "good deeds," the next question is why do we need religion at all? I know many, many people who are in no way religious yet sacrifice and do good deeds daily.

Our founding fathers just made improvements through 'good deeds'?

No, our founding fathers were extremely religious and defined this nation with Christian values.

Mother Theresa just did 'good deeds'? Her faith and sacrifice didn't change the lives of millions upon millions, just because of her efforts?

Martin Luther King, Jr. and his peaceful effort to end discrimination was a good deed? His message wasn't based on Christianity.

Hmmm, very interesting. You pretty much answered my question about the integrity of a person who supports suspect morality.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
And none that it's environment based.

bisexuality. reformed gays.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
bisexuality. reformed gays.

I don't see bisexuality as any proof one way or the other.

And they've caught 'reformed' gays in gay bars too. Cheating on their wives and kids.

Edit: We've been through this before. I think it's possible to condition people, but when it's natural inclination it's muich harder to suppress.

And if people were being 'conditioned' to be gay, they're be coming from gay families, or from situations with prominent homosexuals. That just isn't the case.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
And if people were being 'conditioned' to be gay, they're be coming from gay families, or from situations with prominent homosexuals. That just isn't the case.[/i]

That;s not true. It has been seen that some people act out homosexually for acceptance. Some to experiment. Some because of the friends they choose. That shows that it is a choice.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
That;s not true. It has been seen that some people act out homosexually for acceptance.

Is that your judgement, or did they tell you that.

Originally posted by dcolton:
[BSome to experiment.[/B]

Experimentation is just that. It doesn't show any commitment any more than trying a few cigarettes makes you a smoker.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Some because of the friends they choose.

Clarify.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Is that your judgement, or did they tell you that.

Read an article about it in the Washington Post a few years ago. I will look for some links.

Experimentation is just that. It doesn't show any commitment any more than trying a few cigarettes makes you a smoker.

Exactly my issue. The gay agenda encourages experimentation. Letting the gay lifestyle into mainstream society encourages this experimentation...as kids are watching Will and Grace and the rest of the drivel on tv.

Clarify.

Birds of a feather flock together.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Key word is prefer. You can force people to do a lot of things, but all that results in is usually a bigger learning curve, decreased skill, etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised if that inclination is still there.

Not really. And I'm glad they did it, means I don't have to spend more on golf clubs, better selection of guitars, etc..

[Dakar]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Exactly my issue. The gay agenda encourages experimentation. Letting the gay lifestyle into mainstream society encourages this experimentation...as kids are watching Will and Grace and the rest of the drivel on tv.

If by gay agenda you mean, people who are more open-minded (or liberal). And they wouldn't continue to do it if they didn't like it, now would they?

Originally posted by dcolton:
Birds of a feather flock together.

And in this case those who are homosexual and don't realize it are drawn to those who already are self-realized. Makes sense.


Edit:

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Not really. And I'm glad they did it, means I don't have to spend more on golf clubs, better selection of guitars, etc..

Fair enough.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by dcolton:
That;s not true. It has been seen that some people act out homosexually for acceptance. Some to experiment. Some because of the friends they choose. That shows that it is a choice.

So what. A far larger number of homosexuals act out heterosexually for acceptance. Does that mean that heterosexuality is a choice?

Stop trying to pretend that there's some sort of logic behind your position. Just say you think homosexuality is immoral and leave it at that.

[Sock Puppet Theater]

Originally posted by dcolton:
bisexuality.

Ha! You don't know any bisexuals, do you.
I've always viewed sexuality as a sliding scale.
But hey, if you want to view it as binary, where one side is hetero and the other is demon-possessed gays, fine. I reserve the right to laugh at your opinion though.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by zigzag:
So what. A far larger number of homosexuals act out heterosexually for acceptance. Does that mean that heterosexuality is a choice?

good point. But I would say that the gays who act hetero to gain acceptance are really acting hetero to get their rocks off with whatever is available. Remember, as someone pointed out earlier. As dogs are in the animal kingdom, so are gays...it is, according to him, a genetic prediposition.

(If we admit that the gay animal thing is ridiculous, I will quit making the above reference).

Stop trying to pretend that there's some sort of logic behind your position. Just say you think homosexuality is immoral and leave it at that.

I don't think homosexuality is immoral. I think it is amoral.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Sock Puppet Theater:
Ha! You don't know any bisexuals, do you.
I've always viewed sexuality as a sliding scale.
But hey, if you want to view it as binary, where one side is hetero and the other is demon-possessed gays, fine. I reserve the right to laugh at your opinion though.

No, I don't know any bisexuals because, IMO...gay is gay. They just illustrate the fact that they can't control their urges.

[Sock Puppet Theater]

Originally posted by dcolton:
No, I don't know any bisexuals because, IMO...gay is gay. They just illustrate the fact that they can't control their urges.

Everything is sexual to you. Why can't they just love (not necessarily physical love) people of both genders? You don't think gays are capable of real love, do you.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Sock Puppet Theater:
Everything is sexual to you. Why can't they just love (not necessarily physical love) people of both genders? You don't think gays are capable of real love, do you.

no, i don't. not the way a man can love a women and vice versa. And you can blame that on the gay culture that always points to sex.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Our founding fathers just made improvements through 'good deeds'?

No, our founding fathers were extremely religious and defined this nation with Christian values.

Mother Theresa just did 'good deeds'? Her faith and sacrifice didn't change the lives of millions upon millions, just because of her efforts?

Martin Luther King, Jr. and his peaceful effort to end discrimination was a good deed? His message wasn't based on Christianity.

Hmmm, very interesting. You pretty much answered my question about the integrity of a person who supports suspect morality.

Just as you confirm my suspicions about the conscience of the hateful, homophobic, self-righteous, hypocritical, bigot.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
Just as you confirm my suspicions about the conscience of the hateful, homophobic, self-righteous, hypocritical, bigot.

you made me laugh.

So what was the matter with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. again? Did he not contribute to society...or are you minimizing his efforts because he was a black Christian, who afforede change through Christian values?

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
And you can blame that on the gay culture that always points to sex.

You don't know a thing about what your talking about do you? I'd ask you to lay down the hate and go do some of your own checking on that, but you'd probably die from cooties, right?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
You don't know a thing about what your talking about do you? I'd ask you to lay down the hate and go do some of your checking on that, but you'd probably die from cooties, right?

Walk into the bathroom of a gay bar. Go to a gay singles site. Watch that stupid gay makeover show, and that gay showtime series. All about sex, sex, sex. Hell, just listen to a gay guy talk to his gay friends in a bar...or a gay guy talk to the chick about other guys.

[Sock Puppet Theater]

Originally posted by dcolton:
no, i don't. not the way a man can love a women and vice versa. And you can blame that on the gay culture that always points to sex.

Right, because sex isn't pervasive in the hetero culture
I would say that you would change your mind if you had any gay friends, but that won't ever happen. You'd be too busy (like Mr.Swaggart) trying to purge them of their gayness. They'd get fed up and ditch you within a month.

I have a few GLBT (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender) friends, and they most definitely feel emotional love for their partners. Heteros don't have a monopoly on it. For you to say so is the height of arrogance.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Sock Puppet Theater:
Right, because sex isn't pervasive in the hetero culture
I would say that you would change your mind if you had any gay friends, but that won't ever happen. You'd be too busy (like Mr.Swaggart) trying to purge them of their gayness. They'd get fed up and ditch you within a month.

I have a few GLBT (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender) friends, and they most definitely feel emotional love for their partners. Heteros don't have a monopoly on it. For you to say so is the height of arrogance.

I do have gay friends. They know how I feel and we have a great relationship. Hell...we even have gay members at my church. So don't tell me who my friends are and are not.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Walk into the bathroom of a gay bar. Go to a gay singles site. Watch that stupid gay makeover show, and that gay showtime series. All about sex, sex, sex. Hell, just listen to a gay guy talk to his gay friends in a bar...or a gay guy talk to the chick about other guys.

Uh huh. In case you haven't noticed living there in the bubble, everything in America is about sex sex sex. And aside from the backwoods redneck bars where all the alcoholic wife-beaters are talking about their new pickup truck with hard-ons, when is the last time you've seen male and female activity at a straight bar that should be considered "typical" of the whole rest of hetero behavior? You stretch like Gumby with these accusations. I was privy to more embarrassing and ultra-sexual conversation in the straight bar I was in a month ago than anything I've heard at a gay bar in my life. Because you say so, though, I'll have to remember that an entire group of people are summed up by their behavior in bars.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I do have gay friends.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
Uh huh. In case you haven't noticed living there in the bubble, everything in America is about sex sex sex. And aside from the backwoods redneck bars where all the alcoholic wife-beaters are talking about their new pickup truck with hard-ons, when is the last time you've seen male and female activity at a straight bar that should be considered "typical" of the whole rest of hetero behavior? You stretch like Gumby with these accusations. I was privy to more embarrassing and ultra-sexual conversation in the straight bar I was in a month ago than anything I've heard at a gay bar in my life. Because you say so, though, I'll have to remember that an entire group of people are summed up by their behavior in bars.

perhaps you should get out of your own little bubble! I have noticed how you avoid the comments you can't handle and how you respond with hate and personal insults to the other comments. Your out of your league.

[sambeau]

Originally posted by Dakar:
People don't choose which hand they prefer.

I prefer someone else's

[dcolton]

Originally posted by sambeau:
I prefer someone else's

lol. hey, i accidently deleted that link, can you send it to me again. I am interested to hear some of that music!

[constrictor]

Originally posted by dcolton:
perhaps you should get out of your own little bubble! I have noticed how you avoid the comments you can't handle and how you respond with hate and personal insults to the other comments. Your out of your league.

Nice. You've learned from old Zim that the best way to dodge is to accuse someone else of the same. Everything you wrote in your "sex sex sex" post was you believing in an ignorant stereotype. The good news is, a lot of people on this board view you as a living, breathing stereotype, too. Reap what you sow.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by constrictor:
Nice. You've learned from old Zim that the best way to dodge is to accuse someone else of the same. Everything you wrote in your "sex sex sex" post was you believing in an ignorant stereotype. The good news is, a lot of people on this board view you a living, breathing stereotype, too. Reap what you sow.

Like I said, out of your league. Have you noticed how you get ZERO respect while others do? There is a reason for that.

[itai195]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Walk into the bathroom of a heterosexual bar. Go to a heterosexual singles site. Watch that stupid heterosexual makeover show, and that heterosexual showtime series. All about sex, sex, sex. Hell, just listen to a heterosexual guy talk to his heterosexual friends in a bar...

Fixed!

[demograph68]

Even if you disagree with homosexuality, why should I let it stop me? Consenting adults should be free to do what they want in the bedroom, as long as no one is getting hurt. I suppose you're against "foreplay" too, because it isn't natural. It's fine for a straight couple to have sex but God forbid if they like it kinky!

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by demograph68:
t's fine for a straight couple to have sex but God forbid if they like it kinky!

Actually, God does forbid it being kinky.