[ambush]

i'm sure you'd be happy in SF. from what I observe, the gay community is very open to newcomers and they're veyr friendly.

[turtle777]

Ok, after reading this, I *MUST* remind myself that this is teh intarweb for a reason.
I'm sure I'll read about it soon on wiki. Then I know it's *really* true

-- I want to believe --

-t

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by abe

The Church has got to pay closer attention to the possibility of human weakness in regards to sexual indiscretion and the move to identify potential areas of future litigation is just an act of prudence on their part.

[Salty]

In response to Ironknee. How would this change my views on religion? I still love God, and I've known all my life that He loves me. He's the only person I've ever known loved me regardless. Has this brought into my mind again the fact that Christians are humans just like everyone else, and while some of them are great people, they're not perfect? Well, I already knew that.
I mean this is something that basically came up around the same time I decided to live my life for God above all things. So I'm trying to figure out exactly what the future holds for me. I have yet to decide exactly how I'm going to proceed from here. But I'm just gonna have some fun for now. And enjoy being able to just be 100% upfront with people when I want to.

[ghporter]

Congratulations, either for getting it off your chest or leveling with yourself and then getting it off your chest.

[moonmonkey]

Wow, this is great news, it seems obvious why you weren't having much luck with the opposite sex.

What kind of porn were you addicted too, if it was scat, I can kind of understand the church's attitude.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Congratulations, either for getting it off your chest or leveling with yourself and then getting it off your chest.

Or for fooling the Lounge into believing it's for real.

-t

[meelk]

you have a chicken imac in your sig. why would we have thought you were straight?

[scaught]

the final shreds of splinters holding that closet door closed fell apart. good on you, david.

[andi*pandi]

good luck salty. You sound a lot older now, and wiser. If your current church is going to continue to treat you like this, may I recommend Unitarians?

[dcmacdaddy]

It's about time you came out of the closet.

Good for you for being honest with yourself and everyone else.


And a to Spliffdaddy for his positive attitude about this. I was surprised, and gladdened, by his comment.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Salty

Hey guys. Just figured I think I mentioned in passing that I got booted from our church's youth group ministry (some days I really get sick of non-Christians being right about Christians but whatever...) anyway. I never really said so on here not because I was some self-loathing nut job like some of you think. I just never wanted to risk it somehow getting back to people I know. That said, as a result of getting booted from the YG I had to tell my rents something, so I decided to be honest about it. My mom's response was great.

Me: Yah... I'm gay.
Mom: You mean you think you're gay...
Me: Nope, I double checked.

Anyway, it's fun not telling people at a BIble College, but also never lying about it. That said, I don't mean to pretend that all the Christians I know have taken it badly, I have several friends at school who have taken it very well. That said, it'd just be awkward to live in an all guy's dorm and have people know.

Oh and encase you're wondering about the girl post a while ago. Wee bit bi but not terribly much so.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

This is the most anti-climactic coming out ever since George Michael.

I mean really... who didn't see this one coming? I've been saying it for years. Even offered to take him to a bear bar years ago.

Anywho, Superchick, you are the last to know.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

This is the most anti-climactic coming out ever since George Michael.

I mean really... who didn't see this one coming? I've been saying it for years. Even offered to take him to a bear bar years ago.

Anywho, Superchick, you are the last to know.

Maybe, just maybe, you could not be a d!ck to him, just this one time, with your snide comments. A**hole!

[Railroader]

Don't let anyne keep you from running the race set for you Salty.

[ambush]

Spread The Gospel!!!!

Love God! And Jesus
!!!!111111

[RAILhead]

I thought everyone already knew that.



Oh yeah, and

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ambush

Spread The Gospel!!!!

Love God! And Jesus
!!!!111111

Please quit mocking Salty's beliefs in his thread. It's extremely uncool.

EDIT: And go wash my car and do Kevin's dishes.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by abe

The Church has got to pay closer attention to the possibility of human weakness in regards to sexual indiscretion and the move to identify potential areas of future litigation is just an act of prudence on their part.

It's like a pre-emptive act.

I wish you happiness.

The Church has to accept that homosexuality is natural, and embrace gays, and stop assuming that same sex people will not be interested towards each other.

Originally Posted by Salty

Actually I was reading in a book on child molestation a while ago that apparently child molestation is almost exclusively done by men who identify themselves as straight. Beyond that most of them are married. I was very close to pointing out to the assoc pastor that there was a much better chance of him molesting a kid than me.

Good thing you didn't because that would be a logical fallacy that many fall into. Take into account that straights outnumber gays 30 to 1. Ever taken an statistics and probability course?

[ambush]

Find A ****ing Job Man

It is your effing church whi hates gays, not me. for all I know, gay people are accepted here.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Maybe, just maybe, you could not be a d!ck to him, just this one time, with your snide comments. A**hole!

You call that being a dick? I have been nice to him 95% of the time even when he was prattling on about God gays and the bible.

You want me to kiss his butt now that he is a hypocrite?

Geez.

[SSharon]

Hey Salty, I haven't chatted with you since google talk started I think so you may not even remember the conversation we had. In any event, congrats on finding yourself and making a huge step in the rest of your life. It doesn't sound like you regret telling people and that's a good thing.

[boots]

This for real Salty? Good on you. Welcome to the world of freedom. You're still a blessed child of God. Don't let anyone tell you you don't have sacred worth. (No, I'm not trying to yank your chain.)

[jamil5454]

I've never met a gay person that thought logically. But alas, they are necessary to society.

to Salty for coming out. People change, straights become gays, and vice-versa. The only point of religion is to uphold morals and good interests that benefit mankind. If you can uphold these intellectually (which most can't do), then I guess you don't need religion and all power to you.

But remember that not everyone can be homosexual.

[chris v]

Wow, I almost miss the lounge after reading this thread. (<-- not sarcasm) Hang in there Salty-- sorry your church folks are being dickweeds, but hey, we're all sinners, right? Maybe they'll reflect & repent.

Cheers, dude. Be happy.

[IceEnclosure]

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ght=homosexual

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ght=homosexual


holy crap, man.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ght=homosexual

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ght=homosexual


holy crap, man.

Told ya. Hypocrite gone bonkers.

[MindFad]

Well, right on. Good for you, and right on with the paragraphs, too.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Salty

In response to Ironknee. How would this change my views on religion? I still love God, and I've known all my life that He loves me. He's the only person I've ever known loved me regardless. Has this brought into my mind again the fact that Christians are humans just like everyone else, and while some of them are great people, they're not perfect? Well, I already knew that.
I mean this is something that basically came up around the same time I decided to live my life for God above all things. So I'm trying to figure out exactly what the future holds for me. I have yet to decide exactly how I'm going to proceed from here. But I'm just gonna have some fun for now. And enjoy being able to just be 100% upfront with people when I want to.

Kudos, utmost respect, and truly sincere wishes that you and your world will happily come to terms.

[Peder Rice]

You know, I wouldn't have guessed. I had defended Salty the entire time, and I must admit that I'm still surprised. Salty took me more as a guy of limited sexual attraction, but not as homosexual. As somebody more tuned for asexuality. Or as somebody with anxiety.

Either way, I hope you find some form of vindication, confidence, and relief that will make for an easier life ahead. Good luck.

[Frecklefacecase]

Gays are easy for liberal minded straights to get along with. But Mexicans, that's another story.

[Frecklefacecase]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Don't let anyne keep you from running the set for you Salty.

"I anyne gonna run taday" - Speedy Gonzalez

[Salty]

Thanks, but for anyone hoping my church leadership (not the whole church) is going to pull their heads out of the sand. That's not going to happen. In churches when this sort of thing happens. People just leave and fade away. Partly because it's very tough to draw attention to a problem without sinning. My honesty was the best I could do and even still nothing is going to change.
I recently e-mailed my assoc pastor, after talking to a friend. And I basically said, you don't seem to have gotten exactly what happened, so I want to hear from you, did you understand these 11 things. All they really required were yes or no answers at their most basic.
He instead of replying the way I asked, stated that he'd rather get together to clear things up with him and two elders and we could sit down and talk. I replied with, No just forget it.
When elders get together with pastors to talk to "wretched sinners" they talk at, unfortunately no too. The sad truth is nothing is going to change at a place I once called home. The only real hope for all of it that I have, is that maybe in the future this won't happen to someone else. But it probably will.
All that being said, I've written some grand poetry recently, most of it is posted on my blog. The one I wrote today I'm going to be reading in my oral com class.

[Kr0nos]

Cool. Congrats for coming out of the closet. I hope everything turns out fine for you…

Should you have any further trouble with your congregation, may I suggest converting to the The Curch of Satan. It would make your switch™ complete.

[lothar56]

I'm just curious as to how you view your homosexuality now. Is it something natural and normal that you're embracing, or do you see it as a sin that you're struggling with and trying to overcome?

[greenamp]

Meh, church is over rated. They deepest secrets about God are never revealed to you there, but in solitude.

[The Milkman]

Welcome to the happy few

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Or for fooling the Lounge into believing it's for real.

-t

Reminds me of futurama quote:

"Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me."

[theolein]

Congratulations, Salty Chicken. I'm pretty sure you'll be a happier person now.

[forkies]

Originally Posted by Salty

I've written some grand poetry recently, most of it is posted on my blog. The one I wrote today I'm going to be reading in my oral com class.

far be it for me to tell you how to write poetry for yourself, but if you plan to share it with others you need to do something about it. it's too long, far too long. not that length is necessarily a bad thing (as maybe you now know ), but you need a way for it to have structure within that length. easily identifiable parts, either by word choice, grammatical structure, meaning, something. right now, the following part (which is good, since it's the end) is stronger than all that comes before it:

And look to the sign you placed above his head.

“Enemy of the Church”

Look up criminal!
Look at his face!
And see how you’ve made this faggot.
Oh so Christ like.

the thing is, the rest of it needs to function just was well as the end, but it currently doesn't, in my opinion.



other than that, perhaps it's those who are forced to question themselves who, more than any other, understand their own identity.

"I Ain't Movin'" by Des'ree [4.75 MB]

Love is my passion
Love is my friend
Love is universal
Love never ends

Then why am I faced with so much anger, so much pain?
Why should I hide? Why should I be ashamed?
Time is much too short to be living somebody else's life
I walk with dignity, I step with pride

'Cos I ain't movin' from my face,
from my race, from my history
I ain't movin' from my love,
my peaceful dove, it means too much to me
Loving self can be so hard
Honesty can be demanding
Learn to love yourself,
it's a great, great feeling

When your down baby, I will set you free
I will be your remedy, I will be your tree
A wise man is clever, seldom ever speaks a word
A foolish man keeps talking, never is he heard

Time's too lonely, too lonely without words
Future voices need to be heard
Eyebrows are always older than the beards
Momma said be brave, you've nothing to fear

I ain't movin', I've been here long before
I ain't movin', 'cos I want more
I ain't movin', got my feet on the ground
As far as I'm concerned, love should win the rounds

[version]

All the best, salty, hope your life is that bit easier now that you're able to be open about it.

Kudos.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Salty

Actually I was reading in a book on child molestation a while ago that apparently child molestation is almost exclusively done by men who identify themselves as straight. Beyond that most of them are married. I was very close to pointing out to the assoc pastor that there was a much better chance of him molesting a kid than me.

But yah, several of the kids have pointed out to me that the assoc pastor really has lost most of his credibility when it comes to them being willing to tell him anything. To which I feel a wee bit bad about, but ultimately I can't say he doesn't deserve it. The unfortunate part was that before this all happened we were pretty tight friends. Sadly he's one of those people that who after you tell never look at you the same again.
Sigh.

You ever think you were sent SPECIFICALLY to him so he'd have a chance to grow, spiritually?

It may not be the first time he's had to deal with this 'lesson' in loving his fellow man but MAYBE, if he finally GETS IT (even if and even after you two have parted company forever) you will have been instrumental in his breakthrough.

Just believe that it will happen and be glad that the Lord was able to employ you in that situation.

He definitely works in mysterious way, eh?

[forkies]

Originally Posted by abe

He definitely works in mysterious way, eh?

especially when he makes you his..tool

[abe]

Originally Posted by ambush

So much hate going on at the bible college.

I'd suggest that it was a place of learning and growth. The people who go to school go to learn. If they were all smart they wouldn't be there.

Like a hospital is where sick people go to be made well. Calling it a place of sickness wouldn't be the most objective and accurate way of describing it, I'd guess.

The toughest lesson and the only lesson, really, is to learn how to love. And Salty may have been part of God's curriculum for several people there.

[PurpleGiant]

Good luck with everything Salty. I have a friend in a somewhat similar situation finding it very tough, but you seem to be doing alright.

[abe]

Originally Posted by forkies

especially when he makes you his..tool

From the film, PULP FICTION. The part of Jules was played by Samuel L. Jackson. In this, the last scene in the film, Jules (a professional Hit Man) has decided to give up violence as a result of what he deems an act of God he and fellow hit man, Vincent Vega (John Travolta) benefitted from earlier that day. Pumpkin (Tim Roth) and his g/f are robbing the cafe where the hit men are having breakfast and Jules has refused to give him the suitcase belonging to his boss but offers him his own wallet in a metaphoric play on Jesus' giving his own life to 'buy' mankind's salvation. In an unguarded moment Jules is able to reverse the situation and disarm Pumpkin, leaving him completely defenseless. A situation the viewer expects will be bad news for Pumpkin. And Jules delivers this soliloquy.

JULES
There's a passage I got memorized.
Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the
righteous man is beset on all sides
by the inequities of the selfish and
the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is
he who, in the name of charity and
good will, shepherds the weak through
the valley of the darkness. For he
is truly his brother's keeper and
the finder of lost children. And I
will strike down upon thee with great
vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my
brothers. And you will know I am the
Lord when I lay my vengeance upon
you." I been sayin' that **** for
years. And if you ever heard it, it
meant your ass. I never really
questioned what it meant. I thought
it was just a coldblooded thing to
say to a mother****er 'fore you popped
a cap in his ass. But I saw some
**** this mornin' made me think twice.
Now I'm thinkin', it could mean you're
the evil man. And I'm the righteous
man. And Mr. .45 here, he's the
shepherd protecting my righteous ass
in the valley of darkness. Or is
could by you're the righteous man
and I'm the shepherd and it's the
world that's evil and selfish. I'd
like that. But that **** ain't the
truth. The truth is you're the weak.
And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But
I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to
be a shepherd.

Jules lowers his gun, lying it on the table.

forkies, you are calling me or one or more of the Christians here, tools. I'm trying real hard to perceive you lovingly, right now.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Salty

I recently e-mailed my assoc pastor, after talking to a friend. And I basically said, you don't seem to have gotten exactly what happened, so I want to hear from you, did you understand these 11 things. All they really required were yes or no answers at their most basic.
He instead of replying the way I asked, stated that he'd rather get together to clear things up with him and two elders and we could sit down and talk. I replied with, No just forget it.

Why do I have a suspicion that these 11 questions were completely unfair, making it impossible to really decide a yes/no answer?

Originally Posted by salty

When elders get together with pastors to talk to "wretched sinners" they talk at, unfortunately no too. The sad truth is nothing is going to change at a place I once called home. The only real hope for all of it that I have, is that maybe in the future this won't happen to someone else. But it probably will.

There'd be less chances of them repeating this discrimination if you confront them more, making them see their discriminating ways.

[forkies]

Originally Posted by abe

forkies, you are calling me or one or more of the Christians here, tools.

i certainly am. though, it has nothing to do with being of a religious group, but instead not being responsible for one's own actions & path. i'd rather be a human whom makes his own choices rather than a tool.

Originally Posted by abe

I'm trying real hard to perceive you lovingly, right now.

other ppl don't need your sanctimonious "love."

[abe]

Originally Posted by forkies

i certainly am. though, it has nothing to do with being of a religious group, but instead not being responsible for one's own actions & path. i'd rather be a human whom makes his own choices rather than a tool.

other ppl don't need your sanctimonious "love."

It's not about other people needing my love as much as it's about my willingness to love rather than fear.

Thank you for helping remind me.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Salty

Thanks, but for anyone hoping my church leadership (not the whole church) is going to pull their heads out of the sand. That's not going to happen. In churches when this sort of thing happens. People just leave and fade away. Partly because it's very tough to draw attention to a problem without sinning. My honesty was the best I could do and even still nothing is going to change.
I recently e-mailed my assoc pastor, after talking to a friend. And I basically said, you don't seem to have gotten exactly what happened, so I want to hear from you, did you understand these 11 things. All they really required were yes or no answers at their most basic.
He instead of replying the way I asked, stated that he'd rather get together to clear things up with him and two elders and we could sit down and talk. I replied with, No just forget it.
When elders get together with pastors to talk to "wretched sinners" they talk at, unfortunately no too. The sad truth is nothing is going to change at a place I once called home. The only real hope for all of it that I have, is that maybe in the future this won't happen to someone else. But it probably will.
All that being said, I've written some grand poetry recently, most of it is posted on my blog. The one I wrote today I'm going to be reading in my oral com class.

I believe when you have learned that 'lesson' or finished that spiritual 'assignment' you are quickly and rather effortlessly, but definitely, removed from those circumstances which characterized that phase of your life. The person or people will just disappear from your life as though they were smoke from a fire now dead. You will find yourself no longer inhabiting the same space(s) because you no longer need to be there or you are no longer needed there.

And your next assignment is speeding your way...and you to it.

Be happy. You just graduated. But beware. You WILL be given follow-up tests to confirm to God and the Universe that you have indeed learned that lesson. If you don't pass the follow up test(s) (whenever or wherever it comes) you will be sent back to repeat the same lesson.

It won't be the same space or place or people, but the lesson will be identical...til you get it.

Look at anyone who seems to be stuck in a rut or going in circles or continues to make the same mistakes over and over.

They are just getting repeat opportunities to grow.