Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > So, what is so great about marriage?

So, what is so great about marriage? (Page 4)
Thread Tools
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 02:35 PM
 
Marriage is okay, once you get the hang of it. But I strongly urge people to wait until they're at least 30 before getting married.

But I really have an issue with monogamy in the long term, there are too many women out there that I want to impregnate.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 02:41 PM
 

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
But I strongly urge people to wait until they're at least 30 before getting married.
I think some people would freak out at the thought.
( Last edited by Dakar V; May 1, 2009 at 02:54 PM. )
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
If think some people would freak out at the thought.
You're right - but I think it's true. imo Maturity doesn't happen at a young age (hence the word).
I know many people that married at 21, only to regret not exploring what life has to offer. Myself included.
But heh, not everyone is a horn bag.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
If think some people would freak out at the thought.
I agree, although I do sometimes wonder why that is.

I have a friend in her late 20s (I think she's 27 now) who has been married for a few years.

They're in the process of buying a house, because they want to be settled in before they have kids - and she's very intent on having children before she turns 30.

I don't really see a logical reason for this, other than society and culture tells us that you need to get crackin' if you haven't popped out any little mini-mes by the time you hit 30 or so. Personally, I feel no pressure to have kids, now or ever. I don't really think it's up to society as a whole to decide for me when I should get married or have children, or what gender I should be allowed to marry.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I agree, although I do sometimes wonder why that is.
I think sometimes, it's like why I went to college. I went because that's what you're supposed to do, and you're asked how are you going to get a job without it. Only problem is, that's not a good reason to go to college, and much like marriage, it increases your chances of failure.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
I think sometimes, it's like why I went to college. I went because that's what you're supposed to do, and you're asked how are you going to get a job without it. Only problem is, that's not a good reason to go to college, and much like marriage, it increases your chances of failure.
I agree with you - my college education was a complete waste of time & money. I learned how to drink and how to convert a phone booth into a giant bong, but that's about it.

But sometimes we need guidance - some path to start on, and perhaps a little push. You went to school because you had to (me too), but the thing is that now you're aware of this coercion and wiser for it. Maybe now you'll be able to coerce others with skill. (!) Marriage is a bit more damaging though, I think there's more involved.. house, kids, dangerous emotion gone bad... It's a tough one.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
PBG4 User
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Deer Crossing, CT
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I agree, although I do sometimes wonder why that is.

I have a friend in her late 20s (I think she's 27 now) who has been married for a few years.

They're in the process of buying a house, because they want to be settled in before they have kids - and she's very intent on having children before she turns 30.

I don't really see a logical reason for this, other than society and culture tells us that you need to get crackin' if you haven't popped out any little mini-mes by the time you hit 30 or so.
The younger a woman is when they have children, the better it is for the woman's and the child's health. My wife had our son 4 years ago and because of her age, she had to undergo extra tests and do things that younger women would not have been asked to do.
20" iMac G5! :D AND MacBook 1.83GHz!
Canon Digital Rebel Kit + 75 - 300mm lens. Yum Yum! :D
Check out my OS X Musical Scales program
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I agree, although I do sometimes wonder why that is.

I have a friend in her late 20s (I think she's 27 now) who has been married for a few years.

They're in the process of buying a house, because they want to be settled in before they have kids - and she's very intent on having children before she turns 30.

I don't really see a logical reason for this, other than society and culture tells us that you need to get crackin' if you haven't popped out any little mini-mes by the time you hit 30 or so. Personally, I feel no pressure to have kids, now or ever. I don't really think it's up to society as a whole to decide for me when I should get married or have children, or what gender I should be allowed to marry.
So...when should you get married? In your 40's? I don't want be in a wheelchair in my 80's when if MY kids get married in their 40's. I'd like to spend some time with grandkids, etc.

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:29 PM
 
Tyler Durden:

My dad never went to college, so it was real important that I go. So I graduate, I call him up long distance, I say "Dad, now what?" He says, "Get a job." Now I'm 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, "Now what?" He says, "I don't know, get married."
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:31 PM
 
Any pregnancy after the age of 35 is considered a high risk pregnancy and is treated completely differently.

Sometimes life can throw you a monkey wrench.

My wife and I have been together for 10 years and married for 4. We kept putting off having children because we felt we had more living to do. Well, guess what, we started trying and no dice. It took us years to finally get pregnant and it was a very stressful few years. My wife is now 33 and we're six months pregnant with our first... and she's already saying we should have another one in the next year... to avoid complications.

We'll see.

So it does pay to start early. There are valid reasons.

The flip side to my story is my brother. He was 25 and his girlfriend was 21. Unmarried and both living with their parents. She worked at a gas station and he delivered pizza. She decided she wanted to get pregnant because all of her friends were doing it.

Seriously.

No really. Seriously.

That was 3 years ago and it all turned out about as well as you would expect. My brother is now raising the kid on his own.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:35 PM
 
I try not set any hard and fast rules, but I think its more about the pace some people do these things at. High school slams into college slams into marriage slams into your first kid all in a period of 6 years.
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I agree with you - my college education was a complete waste of time & money. I learned how to drink and how to convert a phone booth into a giant bong, but that's about it.
Unfortunately, I've learned quickly that when it comes to working in IT, you need a degree to be anything other than a tech support monkey. Boyfriend doesn't have a degree yet (for a variety of long-winded reasons), and he's found it completely impossible to find a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers or loading stock on the shelves of the local Wal-Mart.

Actually, he can't even get a job at Wal-Mart or Meijer, mostly because the economy is total balls right now and hardly anyone hiring.

Speaking of which, if anyone is looking for a C# programmer to do some freelance work, IM or PM me.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
So...when should you get married? In your 40's? I don't want be in a wheelchair in my 80's when/if MY kids get married in their 40's. I'd like to spend some time with grandkids, etc.
Oh, I can understand that. But there's really not much of a difference in the long run between having kids in your late 20s and having kids in your early 30s. Your life isn't going to end if you have your first kid when you're 33. My mom had me when she was 30. Sure, she's a few years older than some of my friends' parents (where my friend is the eldest...I'm the youngest), but it's silly to think that there's some unspoken mandate out there that there's something wrong with you if you don't procreate before you turn 30.

Some people simply may not be ready to take on the burden of children before that age. Maybe there are other goals they have for their lives. People look at me like I have two heads when I tell them I'm not going to have kids. There's this ideal for the American family that you have a couple kids, buy an SUV, and live in the 'burbs in a McMansion for the rest of your life. That's fine if that's what you want, but it's not fine that people put pressure on others to follow that particular path.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
starman
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Union County, NJ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
There's a massive difference between your 20's and 30's. Your career.

Home - Twitter - Sig Wall-Retired - Flickr
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
I try not set any hard and fast rules, but I think its more about the pace some people do these things at. High school slams into college slams into marriage slams into your first kid all in a period of 6 years.
This.

There is an endless stream of former classmates on Facebook who have gotten married sometime during their college years, usually to people they dated at one point or another in high school.

That seems completely insane to me. I might get married next spring...I'll have been out of college for nearly four years at that point, which I think is a decent enough balance. Kids are out of the question, so the next big hurdle will be retirement in 40-odd years.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
There's a massive difference between your 20's and 30's. Your career.
That depends on your career.

If you're committed to your career and want to work on that for most of your adult life, you probably shouldn't be having kids (speaking as a woman, not as a man...). If you have kids and you have an established career, that should mean you actually have some good cash flow, so you can afford to take care of the thing after it pops.

On the other hand, if you push out a kid when you're 24 and you're barely making $30k a year and your husband isn't making much more (or is unemployed), you're going to be struggling for a long time to rebound from that kind of financial plummet.

Not to mention that you don't have to continue your career after you have kids. If you and your spouse can afford to live on a single income, there's no reason why you shouldn't, unless material things are that important to you. When my parents were still married, my mom didn't work. We didn't live like we were wealthy or even upper middle class. My dad was making whatever was a reasonably average salary for a thirtysomething professional in the early 90s, and we could live perfectly comfortably on that.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:48 PM
 
Well, it's fine that you've figured out what works best for you... but don't be so quick to judge others and the decisions they make. If they want to have kids in their 20s, so what?

I'm 34 now and most of my friends kids are already fairly grown and part of me really wishes I had started earlier.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Tyler Durden:

My dad never went to college, so it was real important that I go. So I graduate, I call him up long distance, I say "Dad, now what?" He says, "Get a job." Now I'm 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, "Now what?" He says, "I don't know, get married."
classic
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by PBG4 User View Post
I think it's not having sex before marriage.
Yeah, that's a pretty silly religious requirement.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I agree with you - my college education was a complete waste of time & money. I learned how to drink and how to convert a phone booth into a giant bong, but that's about it.
The degree you go for and what you put into it has a lot to do with how much it matters. You'd be hard pressed to find someone without a degree doing as well as I am at my age straight out of college, especially in this climate.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:05 PM
 
If you went to University to get a better job, you went for the wrong reasons. You don't go to Universities to get a better job, that is what trade/vocational schools are like. Undergraduate degrees are designed to prepare a student to become a Graduate student, where they become academics. You (hopefully) learn how to become a critical, analytical thinker in University, not a better worker drone.
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:08 PM
 
I dropped out of college after 3 months and I'm doing better financially then 90% of my friends with degrees.

That said, the few that are doing better then me are really doing better then me. A lot.

It really just depends.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
If you went to University to get a better job, you went for the wrong reasons. You don't go to Universities to get a better job, that is what trade/vocational schools are like. Undergraduate degrees are designed to prepare a student to become a Graduate student, where they become academics. You (hopefully) learn how to become a critical, analytical thinker in University, not a better worker drone.
You can question the reasons I went to a four year university all you want, but I got a better job out of it.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You can question the reasons I went to a four year university all you want, but I got a better job out of it.

Yes, that is often the outcome of going to a University, but my point is that it is wrong to think that Universities are designed to churn out workers to compete for jobs such as yours or anybody else's.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
The degree you go for and what you put into it has a lot to do with how much it matters. You'd be hard pressed to find someone without a degree doing as well as I am at my age straight out of college, especially in this climate.
Good for you - count your blessings. And it's true, it depends on the field.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yes, that is often the outcome of going to a University, but my point is that it is wrong to think that Universities are designed to churn out workers to compete for jobs such as yours or anybody else's.
Why? It seems like you're holding some romantic view of the philosophical purpose of a university.

Originally Posted by osiris View Post
Good for you - count your blessings. And it's true, it depends on the field.
I do - I'm definitely lucky to have a job right now, especially one in my degree field doing something that I actually want to do.
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yes, that is often the outcome of going to a University, but my point is that it is wrong to think that Universities are designed to churn out workers to compete for jobs such as yours or anybody else's.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Why? It seems like you're holding some romantic view of the philosophical purpose of a university.
Both of these views suck.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:44 PM
 
You suck.
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 04:45 PM
 
no u
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
no u
Is that the second time today the "no caps" has gotten you, or are you just losing will power?
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 05:28 PM
 
Maybe Dakar V's Fisher Price keyboard only does lower.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Is that the second time today the "no caps" has gotten you, or are you just losing will power?
no u isn't properly expressed unless its all lowercase. Duh.
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I dropped out of college after 3 months and I'm doing better financially then 90% of my friends with degrees.

That said, the few that are doing better then me are really doing better then me. A lot.

It really just depends.
I wonder if going to college would have caused you to actually remember that then is not a valid substitute for than in the English language...

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yes, that is often the outcome of going to a University, but my point is that it is wrong to think that Universities are designed to churn out workers to compete for jobs such as yours or anybody else's.
I agree that it's wrong that a degree is viewed as an instant ticket to a better job. The problem is, this viewpoint is alive and kicking in the business world.

Boyfriend is quite intelligent. His lack of formal higher education should not discount his skills as a project manager, a customer representative, a software developer, or an electronics engineer. Unfortunately, it does. There are a couple positions currently open in my department. A college degree is required - not because of the technical skill needed to complete the job, but because of the perceived requirement of formal higher education in order to provide customer service, problem solving, and critical thinking skills required for the position.

I'd have to say that this is completely unfair, particularly in the world of IT. Even CEOs have lost their job after it was revealed that they lied about having a college education. Why? Maybe because they lied, but I think it's more because people have this idea that having a degree makes you inherently better or smarter than those around you.

Here's a hot tip: it doesn't. Going to college doesn't make you smart if you're already an idiot. If you already smart, it can make you smarter, but so can existing in the real world without having a formal education. If you already have displayed a proficiency in software development, you're going to do a hell of a lot better actually out there doing active development than you are sitting in a classroom learning about this theory or that theory.

I gained almost nothing from my four years in college. The things I learned that can be applied in the real world came almost exclusively from my Freshman speech course, a CIT-required course in systems analysis & design, and my two courses in organizational leadership & supervision. Most of my CIT courses proved completely worthless, and I retained nothing from them.

But you know what's worst of all? While my experience in my three-month internship four years ago was enough for me to have adequate web dev knowledge to be hired into my current position, it was my college degree that made me appear eligible to my employer. So a piece of paper is the golden ticket, and people who can't afford to go to school, don't have time to go to school, or otherwise have legitimate reasons for not going to school are completely SOL because managers and executives everywhere are still under the very misdirected opinion that a college degree somehow makes you better than your peers.

I won't deny that a lot of people who don't go to college are complete morons who can barely tie their own shoes, let alone competently manage any kind of work load. The unfortunate side effect of this trend is that intelligent, skilled, competent individuals get the shaft because they're lumped in with the aforementioned demographic.

The education system as it stands is completely broken. Staying in school until you're 18 is a complete waste of time if you're more interested in becoming a mechanic, an electrician, a retail store manager, a plumber, a beautician, or any of a long, long list of vocations, trades, and careers that simply don't require formal education if you want to become an expert.

Anyhow, this makes me ranty more than most issues, because it's killing me that boyfriend can't find employment due to a lack of formal education. If someone hired him, they'd be eternally grateful for making that decision within days - and I'm not just saying that because I'm in love with him. I'm saying it because he's more capable than any fresh-out-of-college graduate, since he has actual, real-world experience as a software developer.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 06:04 PM
 
College does not equal "good job." My brother has some college, but he gets basketfuls of money thrown at him for the programming he does (all self-taught). He's VERY good at it. I have a degree in Computer Science and very little practical experience in that field (salable experience, anyway, I have years of computer security management experience, but that's not helpful), so that really nice degree (honors and everything) gets me a nice diploma to look at and not much else.

On the other hand, I graduate in 22 days (yes, I'm counting!) with a PROFESSIONAL degree that WILL get me a very good job. Once I pass the national certification test, which is a prerequisite for a state license, of course.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
no u isn't properly expressed unless its all lowercase. Duh.
Does the same go for "ban"?
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I wonder if going to college would have caused you to actually remember that then is not a valid substitute for than in the English language...
It might of.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 07:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
It might of.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
College does not equal "good job." My brother has some college, but he gets basketfuls of money thrown at him for the programming he does (all self-taught). He's VERY good at it. I have a degree in Computer Science and very little practical experience in that field (salable experience, anyway, I have years of computer security management experience, but that's not helpful), so that really nice degree (honors and everything) gets me a nice diploma to look at and not much else.

On the other hand, I graduate in 22 days (yes, I'm counting!) with a PROFESSIONAL degree that WILL get me a very good job. Once I pass the national certification test, which is a prerequisite for a state license, of course.
A lot of places really do want you just to have some bachelor's degree. Like, if you have a BA in art history, you go ahead of somebody with only a high school diploma (true story — this happened with a couple of friends of mine). It's just an easy way to whittle down the field of applicants.

Honestly, I feel like college is really overvalued. Not in the sense that learning is unimportant, but most people don't actually learn that much there.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Polatrite
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 08:32 PM
 
Screw marriage, even though it's the real topic of this thread!

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Speaking of which, if anyone is looking for a C# programmer to do some freelance work, IM or PM me.
I do all .NET, PHP, and C/C++ (light). I also lurve XML and text parsing in general. Oh, and I love doing 3-hour utilities.

...just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You can question the reasons I went to a four year university all you want, but I got a better job out of it.
I've noticed that a lot of people who really value their degree are those who learned something from it (makes sense, right?)

Unfortunately, that's NOT a LOT of people. Nearly everyone I've talked to, especially in IT, thinks that their degree is a worthless check-in-the-box. It's a pretty large sampling too - IBM, EArts, independent development, small business, and so on. I've only met a handful of people that actually appreciate their degrees, and it's generally always because they are very interested in computer theory (or whatever) as a subject in general, so the information they learned was entertaining - though still not necessarily useful. If you just want to program and don't care about the methodology of compilers in the early 90's then the value of that degree drops significantly in most people's eyes.

It IS a shame I can't find some solid work with 3 years of professional experience - especially considered my former employer liked me so much they are still contracting me for work to this day. And it's all because I don't have a degree (I'm even working on a degree NOW! Despite my hatred for the system.)

I think education could use major reform - school teaches you things like discipline, theory, problem solving skills, and the ability to learn more effeciently. Real world experience teaches you REAL discipline (not being hungover in class), fundamentals of current technology, and problem solving skills for REAL problems. It's a shame that you don't attend a full year of college that focuses on the occupational fundamentals, another year of college that focuses on general knowledge and theory, then you get your slap on the ass and you're off to the real world for full-time internships. There's no excuse for 4 years of studying for the "entry-level" degree (associates hardly counts in many cases) - and what's the deal with summer vacations anyways? You're a big boy/girl/other in college, learn to work year round as even more preparation for the real world environment. In many cases, college doesn't even churn out a truly useful employee. I've seen many college graduates (this is especially prevalent in open source projects) unable to do basic operations in programming. Sure, they know what an extended private meta override delegate is (or maybe they don't - they took VisualBasic! Better luck next 4 years) but do they know how to read data from a serial stream, parse it, log it to a database, and then forward it out to listeners on a TCP/IP socket?

Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
A lot of places really do want you just to have some bachelor's degree. Like, if you have a BA in art history, you go ahead of somebody with only a high school diploma (true story — this happened with a couple of friends of mine). It's just an easy way to whittle down the field of applicants.

Honestly, I feel like college is really overvalued. Not in the sense that learning is unimportant, but most people don't actually learn that much there.
^ This. And it's not even that they don't learn - it's that, just like the rest of the American educational system, much of the knowledge is completely irrelevant in day-to-day life. The information is rapidly forgotten right after it is learned, and even if it was remembered it would be completely unnecessary and useless in all but the most ideal situations. (Note: this doesn't apply to some degrees, especially those in which history or industry trends are relevant)

This problem affects all levels of the educational system - I learned about the types of clouds in second grade. Second grade! I was 6 years old and I learned about cumulus clouds and the stratosphere. Have I used an ounce of that information since then? Do I REMEMBER any of that information? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't try to predict the weather on the go. I use my iPhone, or I notice that the sky is exceptionally purple and figure it's probably not a good thing.

/rant - education reform please.
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 09:30 PM
 
College is not just about higher learning. It's about padding your resume, if you are going to a good school, and making life-long connections.

Networking and getting your foot in the door.

Parents paying for your college education.

How about parents paying companies to offer you an unpaid internship? Haha..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310699999022549.html
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Demonhood
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Land of the Easily Amused
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 09:35 PM
 
Education
my degree isn't worthless. sure, it hasn't opened up new avenues to wealth, fame and harems, but i never really expected it to. the time and money was worth it because it was a good environment in which to figure out who the hell i want to be. and what i enjoy doing (for work, play, and in relationships).

Marriage & Kids
most of my friends are married. many of them have kids. are they happier than i am? do i need to compete with them because we're of a similar age? if so, i better marry 8 people and knock up a couple dozen before summer starts. i want to get all of that out of the way so i can focus on my tan and perfecting my pomegranate margarita recipe.

Overall
like Dakar, living by a preset timetable doesn't appeal to me. go at your own pace, learn about yourself, keep changing things up.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You suck.
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
no u
Yo sck ?

-t
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
A lot of places really do want you just to have some bachelor's degree. Like, if you have a BA in art history, you go ahead of somebody with only a high school diploma (true story — this happened with a couple of friends of mine). It's just an easy way to whittle down the field of applicants.
I had to fight to change the minor for my CS program from math to something else-EVERYBODY took a math minor because you just did. It turned out that the reason for this was (I'm not making this up) "problem solving skills." I needed four semesters of calculus to figure out how to solve problems systematically? No I didn't, so I changed to a basically liberal arts minor (and I'm a "more well rounded" person because of it).
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Honestly, I feel like college is really overvalued. Not in the sense that learning is unimportant, but most people don't actually learn that much there.
A lot of what a young person (who applies himself or herself) learns in college has little to do with the curriculum. Being on time enough, paying enough attention, managing one's finances well enough, all add up to "behaving somewhat adult-like," which is what I think those employers are really looking for.

It takes a minimum of a bachelor's degree to get a commission in the U.S. armed forces. My BS was significantly harder and more stringent than the degrees a lot of the officers over me had, too. But they had to have their degree to be qualified to be second lieutenants. That did in no way make them better thinkers than I was, it just established that they could stick to something for four years (or so).

Like Demonhood, while I couldn't use my computer science degree for pay and prestige, I did earn a lot of intangibles with it. I value my education very much.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Does the same go for "ban"?
No, I admit that was laziness. His post was worth a response, but not a good one.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I wonder if going to college would have caused you to actually remember that then is not a valid substitute for than in the English language...


So would you have gave him **** for his minor mistake if you had agreed with his opinion?
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 10:40 PM
 
It seems like the biggest stuff you learn after about the age of 16 is stuff you're going to learn no matter what - socializing with people, general problem solving and critical thinking skills...if anything, it seems like kids are getting dumber. Much less of an emphasis is put on common sense, and too much is put on learning completely useless facts.

I'm so tired of meeting kids who are getting their master's degrees in art history or museum management, or their undergrad in philosophy or some other BS degree that will do absolutely nothing for them except screw some competent, capable non-college-graduate out of a job. Stop wasting your time on bullsh!t and learn a trade that will actually allow you to be a contributing, productive member of society.

I think we should go back to when kids didn't go to school past the age of 13 or so, unless they aimed to be academics for life.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 10:56 PM
 
This is a free market economy right? Sink or swim.

Your boyfriend must not be a hard enough worker. That's all there is to it.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
dcmacdaddy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 11:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
The Bible has a lot to say concerning marriage.\
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Except, aren't all English translations on that site based off the German Luther-Bibel of 1545? The ONLY actual reference to "HUSBAND" in that is in Deuteronomy 22:22.

EVERY other reference that your link quotes as referring to marriage simply says "Mann", which *can* mean "husband", but literally just means "man".

Nearly all references quoted as "wife" are "Weib" in the original translation, which simply means "woman".

The instances of "married" are "nahm ein Weib" - which means "took a woman".

This, of course, is an ambiguity based in the German terminology used.

Have you traced those quotes back to the original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic to verify that what you think about marriage is "correct"?


Remember, the "virgin" Mary is a mistranslation that arose quite similarly. The original text spoke of a "young woman", which Luther translated as "Jungfrau" ("virgin") rather than "junge Frau".
Just to be a bit nit-picky about Bible translations, but I have found the Revised Standard Version (OUP, 1977) to be far more accurate in translating ancient biblical language into modern than any other Bible out there. And they are not working from German translations but rather primary sources (Hebrew and Greek) including the early Masoretic standardisation of the Old Testament. (The whole premise of the RSV was to revisit the sources used in the KJV and the ASV to obtain the fullest, most accurate translation possible. I found it immensely useful in my graduate studies.) If you search through this translation of the Bible you will find 139 instances of the term "husband", 420 instances of the term "wife", but only 56 instances of the term "marriage".

And as for bible resources on the web, I am a B-I-G fan of the Crosswalk website. I find their great variety of biblical translations to be most useful in discussions such as this. In addition, they offer a treasure trove of online research tools like interlinear bibles, well-regarded commentaries--the Matthew Henry Commentary is wonderful reading--as well as lexicons searchable upon the "original" Greek or Hebrew.

</derail>
Carry on with arguing about the merits, or lack thereof, of marriage.
( Last edited by dcmacdaddy; May 1, 2009 at 11:17 PM. Reason: fixed some typos.)
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 11:01 PM
 
I really hope you're kidding.

Or else you're trying to make some retarded comment about how much capitalism sucks.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
Polatrite
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
This is a free market economy right? Sink or swim.

Your boyfriend must not be a hard enough worker. That's all there is to it.
Yeah, freelancing and establishing my own business while I finish the worthlessness that is a degree.

Definitely not a hard enough worker.
     
shifuimam
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The deep backwoods of the PNW
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 1, 2009, 11:02 PM
 
I'm pretty sure he just means that if America didn't have a free market economy, you could magically have a job.

VOTE DEMOCRAT 4 LYFE!
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,