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dogwood · May 23, 2002, 08:38 PM

This is a really newby question, after a bit of looking I have found products like jboss tomcat resin that claim to be application servers. So my question is are they all just the same kind of product made by different folks or are thee totally unrelated to each other.

If it is a matter of the first case we, which is better or more popular, and why, They all seem to support slightly different things, like Resin seems to use XML allot.

Just need some facts set straight. As I am starting out in Java, and looking to develop using one of these Java application servers.

Kristoff · May 24, 2002, 12:05 AM

Resin and Tomcat are J2EE web containers.

I wrote a Resin OSX how-to that used to appear on the now defunct jspformacs.com. You might be able to find it cached on google.

edit: seems like the only reference to it is here

you can find the pdf here now.

But, I use Tomcat anymore.

Tomcat is the reference J2EE web container implementation.

JBoss is an J2EE Application server that has a JMX, JMS, and EJB container implementation, among others.

Like Tomcat, JBoss is Free, as in beer.

We use it in a production environment on Solaris, and do our development on OS X.

So, JBoss/Tomcat provides a 100% free, 100% java, 100% cross-platform, open-source, high-quality J2EE stack.

If you are just starting Java, I recommend starting with Tomcat, learning JDBC and the Servlet API and JSP. Once you have those concepts down and are looking toward massively scalable architectures, then get a good book on EJB, and definatly study the Core J2EE Patterns on Sun's website or get the book by Alur, Crupi, and Malks. Then load up the JBoss and have at it!

You are a wise man for going this route. Most people hack some perl or php together and call themselves enterprise systems developers.

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Kristoff ]

dogwood · May 24, 2002, 04:37 AM

Thanks for clearing up what jboss tomcat resin. So its a matter of scale starting with tomcat going to jboss/resin for enterprise servers.

I hacked PHP and found it to be very short in many areas especially when it comes to scaling upwards. Also with the advent of .NET I can only se J2EE holding its ground against the MS .NET cancer. PHP taught me how to program, yet its Java all the way now.

timster · May 24, 2002, 10:33 AM

I actually have Kristoff's HOWTO in html format on my site:
http://www.blackcore.com/main?page=m...tall_resin_125

However, this is for resin 1.25.

I've been meaning to write a 2.0 HOWTO. And that jspformacs.com site really should be resurrected.

-tim

sshand · May 28, 2002, 03:36 PM

re: jspformacs resurrected...

I'll donate some space on one of my sites as well as some how-to's etc if anyone wants to get the ball rolling.

Steven

timster · May 28, 2002, 06:27 PM

I think me and Kristoff talked about this a while ago. (resurrecting jspformacs), but my problem with that domain is that it's awfully specific.

mabye something like j2eeformacs.com or something like that

something that j2ee developers on the mac can work with, instead of just jsp.

-tim

sshand · May 28, 2002, 07:09 PM

By a bizarre twist of fate I happen to already have the domain macservlets.com

It's sitting doing nothing as we speak.

If anybody's interested I'd be happy to host that to get things going...

Steven

good job this thread got started as it just reminded me to renew this domain.

dogwood · May 28, 2002, 07:38 PM

May it me wise not to create a java web-site with mac specific title / name. As any web-site may be seen as less then real, an amateur Java web-site just because it is on a mac and that mac's are toys for kids. (sic) bye other non-macintosh developers. Rather then seeing that the macintosh is an excellent development platform for java.

Rather it would be wise to create a java web-site, that does not have an overt mac like name. Yet has very strong article and community focus on Java on the mac. Thus inviting all not just macintosh users to the web-site, and showing all the power and grace of the java empowered macintosh.

Kristoff · May 29, 2002, 12:28 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dogwood:
May it me wise not to create a java web-site with mac specific title / name. As any web-site may be seen as less then real, an amateur Java web-site just because it is on a mac and that mac's are toys for kids. (sic) bye other non-macintosh developers. Rather then seeing that the macintosh is an excellent development platform for java.

Rather it would be wise to create a java web-site, that does not have an overt mac like name. Yet has very strong article and community focus on Java on the mac. Thus inviting all not just macintosh users to the web-site, and showing all the power and grace of the java empowered macintosh.<hr /></blockquote>I see where you are coming from, but there are 100s of generic java sites already.

I prefer the focus of helping mac users see the power of java.

I am a Windows convert, and I think that any computer scientist or IT professional worth conversing with has no such preconceived notions of Macs since the release of OS X.

My powerbook has become my screening tool. At JavaOne last year, someone said "You still use a mac?" (which is ironic, since it was brand new and was my first mac ever!) That's when I immediately knew not to talk to the idiot. I just laughed (at him) and said...nope, it runs Windows 95.
He gave me a puzzled look, and I turned it around to show him Forte 4 Java running alongside a couple terminal windows with the JBoss console in one and top running in the other. Then he made a face like this: <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> .

Let's face it...some people are mindless sheep. For them, there is no hope.

Sorry for drifting a bit...let's stick to helping those who are really seeking help. Let Visual Studio .Net help the rest of them.

timster · May 29, 2002, 12:53 AM

I agree with Kristoff. There's plenty of good java sites out there that I read regularly, and its not our intent to compete with those.

Those sites give excellent info on using Java generally. What I'd really like to see is some sort of site that specifically helps java developers who are new to, or using MacOS X as their platform.

So we'd have articles that explain how to install stuff on OSX, etc etc, links to other places that have mac java information such as apple's dev page, etc etc.

As for the guy who suggested macservlets.com - not to dismiss your generous offer, but thats about the same as jspformacs.. its confined to a specific component of J2EE. I'd like to see something that covers java on macs, generally.

-tim

sshand · May 29, 2002, 04:13 AM

All good points, I guess my interests lie in j2ee develepment and not general java development. I will say though that it seems slightly odd to want to create a platform specific site for a language whos main selling point is that it's cross-platform.

Pure java develoment should be pure java development. If you want to develop specifically for the mac then I'd venture that java's probably not the way to go.

My ideas for a site were to deal not so much with the development of java code, but instead to provide useful insights, articles and help for people using, or trying to use, a mac environment for j2ee work. Obviously the content would not be exclusively mac based but would lean heavily in that direction.

I think that as the gap between the Apple JVM/JDK and Sun's get ever closer, there will be much less need for mac based pure java information.

There will always be differences between development environments on different platforms just as there are now between windows/linux/solaris etc. That will never change. The techniques for running/installing an ejb container for instance will almost always be different from platform to platform. As OSX as a development environment grows, we will see more and more tools written with installers/config for mac, but that will come slowly. As a poster earlier alluded to, the mac is still not taken all that seriously in some circles.

Anyway, after some discussions with others I'll probably still go ahead with putting something up at <a href="http://www.macservlets.com" target="_blank">www.macservlets.com</a> and would welcome any contributions from any source.

Steven

dogwood · May 29, 2002, 04:45 AM

It is clear a java site for the macintosh is needed. It however seems to come down to a name. People seem to be objecting to restricting the name to one or the other java sub-section. Since the focus is java on the macintosh. It should be something like macjava or hotjavamac.

Due to the size of java their is always an interest in focusing on our own core interest. If we are to have a mac java web-site. It needs, to encompass all of all Java >> J2SE - J2ME - J2EE - Cocoa Java - etc..

I also believe that such a web-site should have a broad focus. Not only for those new to Java, it should also be able to welcome Windows and UNIX java developers to the macintosh, as well as act as an information portal for advance java development. Keeping all members of the java macintosh community coming back.

Kristoff · May 29, 2002, 12:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sshand:

Pure java develoment should be pure java development. If you want to develop specifically for the mac then I'd venture that java's probably not the way to go.
<hr /></blockquote>I couldn't agree more. I only do 100% pure java. But, everyone knows how to make a jar. But, how do you take that jar and make an app bundle out of it? I know how, but some of my long-time windows/linux user friends (whom I have managed to convert) didn't even know you could.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sshand:

There will always be differences between development environments on different platforms just as there are now between windows/linux/solaris etc. That will never change. The techniques for running/installing an ejb container for instance will almost always be different from platform to platform.
<hr /></blockquote>And that's exactly the area to concentrate on.
Like:
How do I get JBoss running?
to
How do I get MySQL to run at boot?
to
How do I get JBoss and MySQL to run at boot, and have JBoss use MySQL.
just to name a very limited few.

How about:
How do I hook my JBoss/Catalina instance to Apache.
How do I compile mod_webapp--make keeps exiting with errors?
etc, etc....

kwiersma · May 29, 2002, 05:24 PM

I know I, for one, would love to see a Java site which has a slant towards OS X. I have been searching the web for a while for just such a site. Even something in a weblog type format would be cool.

I would certainly be willing to share some of my newly obtained Java knowledge as well as my web design/programming skills to such an effort.

Something kind like macosxhints.com would be useful.

--KDub