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tke918 · Jul 17, 2002, 02:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by xyber233:
This sux. All I want is my free mac.com address. I have another problem. Anyone have an answer? If I do pay for .mac, is there a way to transfer my dads mac.com address to my account? I do not want to pay $100 extra for a damn email address

!<hr /></blockquote>Exactly! I just want to keep my mac.com email address. I would consider to join if it is $100 for life. $100 for just a year is outrages. I'm very sad to know Hotmail is better than mac.com cuz hotmail still gives us free email accounts (eventhough they are not so good.)

Nonsuch · Jul 17, 2002, 02:24 PM

If it turns out we do lose our mac.com addresses, I'll be as angry as anyone else here. I have no problem with them charging for storage; obviously that kind of thing costs money. But having a mac.com address was like a Mac owner's online badge. You'd be browsing a bulletin board or a blog and see someone with a mac address and think, "Ah--another one of us out there!" Or you did if you're anything like me, I guess. This quite thoroughly Sucks.

But theolein, come on, aren't you overreacting a bit? Apple wants to charge you subscription fees for email and online storage; MS wants to charge you subscription fees (eventually) for your OS and your office software too. Pretty big gulf of difference there.

Oneota · Jul 17, 2002, 02:30 PM

I sent this in to:
<a href="http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac.html</a>
<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I only use iTools for emai, and I don't anticipate using any of the other .mac features.

Therefore, it's not worth it for me to pay $99 (or even $49, really) just for the cool email address. I don't want to give up my email address, either.

The solution would be a free .Mac membership that *only* includes POP,IMAP, and Web-based email, and doesn't allow anything else. I don't need Homepage, I don't need my iCal hosted for me, I don't need an iDisk. I just want to keep my email address.

Thanks!
<hr /></blockquote>I encourage others to go to that address and post something similar.

Christopher Ellis · Jul 17, 2002, 02:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BZ:
Ok. I will be the first to say it is an OK idea.

I don't know how many of you back up your stuff, but you should and 20 MB is just not enough to store stuff. 100 MB on the other hand is a good sized drive . What does a 100 MB hard drive cost? $80-$100.

If they provide Retrospect (which I think they will) that backs up to the iDisk, that is not a bad idea. It is $50 software and for another $50 you get a great place to put stuff.

The reason this is only a OK idea is they should leave basic email and 10MB for old iTools customers. Booting people off in 60 days is not going to win them any awards. They should also bundle .Mac with OS 10.2. You buy (or upgrade) to 10.2 and get .Mac free for a year.

Lets see what comes next.

BZ<hr /></blockquote>Well, unfortunately, Apple is not providing Retrospect, they're providing a home-built backup solution that only works with Apple's built-in CD and DVD burning devices. (Too bad I purchased the 500MHz G4 Powerbook -- with no internal CD-RW.) So, that's "$50" in backup software wasted, since 100MB certainly won't backup my root folder (or even my Documents folder) AND carry a decent webpage. And Antivirus software!? If you check McAfee's site, they have TWO viruses listed as true Mac viruses, the rest are macro viruses, and I'm not the kind of idiot who allows macros to automatically run themselves OR who opens uninvited mail. "$50" wasted. So, I'm down to $50 in value for the use of iPhoto, iCal, and @mac.com. I'll stick with Photoshop, Entourage and @hotmail.com.

Spend $1000+ on a computer, $130/year on OSes and $100/year on half-ass web services and an @mac.com emaila address? Why did I ever /Switch? Thanks, Apple!

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 02:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Spend $1000+ on a computer, $130/year on OSes and $100/year on half-ass web services and an @mac.com emaila address? Why did I ever /Switch? Thanks, Apple! <hr /></blockquote>Apple has never been the cheaper of the platforms. It's always been the easiest to use and most elegant. None of that changes with the announcement. Your decision to switch had nothing to do with iTools; when you signed up for that service, you had to agree to the terms--which included the disclaimer that Apple could make it at paid subscription service at any time.

It's obvious to me that some people on this forum just clicked the 'OK' to the iTools terms when they signed up, without actually reading the agreement. Had they read the agreement, it would have been fairly obvious that Apple was going to charge for some service at some point in time. Next time, read the license/usage agreement!

And here's another one...don't expect versions of all the iApps to be free in the future either. That way you won't be disappointed when Apple begins charging for them in two or three years. With all these people complaining about the $129 cost, it makes it sound like some of you believe Apple employs hundreds and hundreds of developers for free.

[ 07-17-2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Ken_F2 ]

Brazuca · Jul 17, 2002, 02:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Spend $1000+ on a computer, $130/year on OSes and $100/year on half-ass web services and an @mac.com emaila address? Why did I ever /Switch? Thanks, Apple! <hr /></blockquote>Apple has never been the cheaper of the platforms. It's always been the easiest to use and most elegant. None of that changes with the announcement. Your decision to switch had nothing to do with iTools; when you signed up for that service, you had to agree to the terms--which included the disclaimer that Apple could make it at paid subscription service at any time.

It's obvious to me that some people on this forum just clicked the 'OK' to the iTools terms when they signed up, without actually reading the agreement. Had they read the agreement, it would have been fairly obvious that Apple was going to charge for some service at some point in time. Next time, read the license/usage agreement!<hr /></blockquote>Hey Ken,

The agreement also says that you are stooopid.

What a dumb thing to say....

MilkmanDan · Jul 17, 2002, 03:04 PM

If people are really ticked about this (like me), the word on the street is to send feedback to Apple. I mean, come on, they included Spring Loading Folders in 10.2, why not chip in and let your users have an e-mail account. M$ has hotmail, Apple should have .mac (or something free). Don't sign petitions, go directly to the source. Apple. This whole iTools thing makes my milk boil.

serranot · Jul 17, 2002, 03:06 PM

<duplicate deleted>

[ 07-17-2002, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: serranot ]

absmiths · Jul 17, 2002, 03:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Brazuca:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 [QUOTE]It's obvious to me that some people on this forum just clicked the 'OK' to the iTools terms when they signed up, without actually reading the agreement. Had they read the agreement, it would have been fairly obvious that Apple was going to charge for some service at some point in time. Next time, read the license/usage agreement!<hr /></blockquote>Hey Ken,

The agreement also says that you are stooopid.

What a dumb thing to say....<hr /></blockquote>Wow - what a well articulated, well reasoned response! I'm convinced!!!

BTW, for you class action suit weenies, if you think that a license/fair use agreement with Apple that gives them the right to charge at any time will support your cause, you should think again. And it IS a legitimate point.

Apple provided us a free service for a time, and now it isn't practical anymore. Things change.

::maroma:: · Jul 17, 2002, 03:13 PM

First, I must say that I'm a bit taken back by the new subscription services for .Mac.

Second, I am very surprised to see people reacting so harshly towards Apple. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly understand the frustrations that we are all feeling. But to say that something like this is the 'final straw' that will make you switch to the PC side, or bringing up the notion of a class action suit against Apple, or comparing this to MS's subscription scheme for their OS is just plain overreacting.

Let's all just take a few steps back, take a deep breath, and think rationally about this. Yes, this is a real bummer for us Mac-heads. I LOVE my mac.com email address. I don't want to give it up. I love that it is/was free. I am very proud to give my email address to anyone with that badge.

Now, if we want this badge, we are required to pay for it. But there's the good part. IF we want this badge. As always, we have a choice. I think if you want to send Apple a message about this, then DON'T SIGN UP FOR IT. Money speaks louder than any sort of complaining on any forum.

Also, Apple didn't do this to piss you people off. They didn't do it to force their users to only use Apple products. They didn't do it because they have too much money and just wanted more of it. I'm not exactly sure why they did it, but my best guess would be that they did it because they felt they had to. The very last thing Apple would ever do is to alienate their users just because. They know that better than any of us do. Do you really think the Apple folks sat around saying, "Gee, we have a ton of money...let's start charging for .Mac just so we can get a few extra bills to wipe our arses with."?

I have been a loyal Mac user and supporter my entire computing life. And I will continue to be, even after this keynote. I will most likely pay the $50 this year to continue to use my mac.com email address and to explore and use the new features available to me. If I like it, I'll continue to support Apple and subscribe. I have no problem supporting Apple as much as I can without compromising my financial situation. Apple's survival depends on it's loyal user base. If we abandon them for something as trivial as this (and yes, in the grand scheme of things, this is trivial), we'll all be using PC's in 5-10 years, and we won't have any other choice.

Go ahead, switch to the PC side. Go ahead and try to enjoy your experience over there.

serranot · Jul 17, 2002, 03:13 PM

For someone who does not have the beloved "@mac" email address, this whole thing is rather humorous. Give the Mac druggies free crack in the form of an email address and then watch the withdrawal when Stevo starts charging for the crack.

I have a feeling that Apple's stock price plummet has much to do with the sour mood in the forums today.

::maroma:: · Jul 17, 2002, 03:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Brazuca:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken_F2:
Hey Ken,

The agreement also says that you are stooopid.

What a dumb thing to say....<hr /></blockquote>Um, no, a dumb thing to say would be:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The agreement also says that you are stooopid.<hr /></blockquote>What Ken said was absolutely true. This wasn't something Apple pulled out of their collective arses. They've had this idea for a long while now.

JLFanboy · Jul 17, 2002, 03:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
First, I must say that I'm a bit taken back by the new subscription services for .Mac.

Second, I am very surprised to see people reacting so harshly towards Apple. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly understand the frustrations that we are all feeling. But to say that something like this is the 'final straw' that will make you switch to the PC side, or bringing up the notion of a class action suit against Apple, or comparing this to MS's subscription scheme for their OS is just plain overreacting.

Let's all just take a few steps back, take a deep breath, and think rationally about this. Yes, this is a real bummer for us Mac-heads. I LOVE my mac.com email address. I don't want to give it up. I love that it is/was free. I am very proud to give my email address to anyone with that badge.

Now, if we want this badge, we are required to pay for it. But there's the good part. IF we want this badge. As always, we have a choice. I think if you want to send Apple a message about this, then DON'T SIGN UP FOR IT. Money speaks louder than any sort of complaining on any forum.

Also, Apple didn't do this to piss you people off. They didn't do it to force their users to only use Apple products. They didn't do it because they have too much money and just wanted more of it. I'm not exactly sure why they did it, but my best guess would be that they did it because they felt they had to. The very last thing Apple would ever do is to alienate their users just because. They know that better than any of us do. Do you really think the Apple folks sat around saying, "Gee, we have a ton of money...let's start charging for .Mac just so we can get a few extra bills to wipe our arses with."?

I have been a loyal Mac user and supporter my entire computing life. And I will continue to be, even after this keynote. I will most likely pay the $50 this year to continue to use my mac.com email address and to explore and use the new features available to me. If I like it, I'll continue to support Apple and subscribe. I have no problem supporting Apple as much as I can without compromising my financial situation. Apple's survival depends on it's loyal user base. If we abandon them for something as trivial as this (and yes, in the grand scheme of things, this is trivial), we'll all be using PC's in 5-10 years, and we won't have any other choice.

Go ahead, switch to the PC side. Go ahead and try to enjoy your experience over there.
<hr /></blockquote>maroma, I couldn't have said it better myself. I think all of the people on these boards needs to take a step back, count to 10, and rationalize the .mac strategy and cost. As it stands, .mac is $100/year. That's about $8/month, a far cry less than most services who ONLY offer e-mail. Look at it closer and it's only about $.25/day. Imagine that to log onto your computer, you had to insert a quarter, and by doing so get access to all of your e-mail and web services. I'd be willing to do it. $100 is a lot at one time, but if you look at the long term and budget for it, it's remarkably easy to swallow.

ALSO, as far as I can tell, most of the people here are so pissed off because they ALREADY have an iTools account. This means that you all can sign up for ONLY $50. That's $4.16/month. $.13/day. I have an iTools account an am so pleased to see such a great deal offered to all of us all who use our iTools account. AND to see my iDisk (which I use to host my QuickTime movies) go from 20 megs to 100 megs is amazing. PLUS all of the other services such as backup software and whatnot.

I'll agree that at first glance this sucks big fat hairy balls, but a closer look reveals an extremely competitive web service program, one that will entice many new customers, and one that is in no way any reason to go over to Windows.

[ 07-17-2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: JLFanboy ]

wingdo · Jul 17, 2002, 03:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:
When iTools came out, it stated that I'd have an email address that would be free for life. <hr /></blockquote>Scott, can you (or anyone else) provide some documentation on this "free for Life" idea? MacCentral.com is filled with people talking about it, but noone has any hard proof. I searched the Apple Press releases, and two which talked about how iTools was free and had a free e-mail account, but nothing was mentioned about "free for Life".

Before I fork out my $49 for an e-mail address, I would certainly like to know if it really is supposed to be "free for life".

kman42 · Jul 17, 2002, 03:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLFanboy:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />
First, I must say that I'm a bit taken back by the new subscription services for .Mac.

Second, I am very surprised to see people reacting so harshly towards Apple. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly understand the frustrations that we are all feeling. But to say that something like this is the 'final straw' that will make you switch to the PC side, or bringing up the notion of a class action suit against Apple, or comparing this to MS's subscription scheme for their OS is just plain overreacting.

Let's all just take a few steps back, take a deep breath, and think rationally about this. Yes, this is a real bummer for us Mac-heads. I LOVE my mac.com email address. I don't want to give it up. I love that it is/was free. I am very proud to give my email address to anyone with that badge.

Now, if we want this badge, we are required to pay for it. But there's the good part. IF we want this badge. As always, we have a choice. I think if you want to send Apple a message about this, then DON'T SIGN UP FOR IT. Money speaks louder than any sort of complaining on any forum.

Also, Apple didn't do this to piss you people off. They didn't do it to force their users to only use Apple products. They didn't do it because they have too much money and just wanted more of it. I'm not exactly sure why they did it, but my best guess would be that they did it because they felt they had to. The very last thing Apple would ever do is to alienate their users just because. They know that better than any of us do. Do you really think the Apple folks sat around saying, "Gee, we have a ton of money...let's start charging for .Mac just so we can get a few extra bills to wipe our arses with."?

I have been a loyal Mac user and supporter my entire computing life. And I will continue to be, even after this keynote. I will most likely pay the $50 this year to continue to use my mac.com email address and to explore and use the new features available to me. If I like it, I'll continue to support Apple and subscribe. I have no problem supporting Apple as much as I can without compromising my financial situation. Apple's survival depends on it's loyal user base. If we abandon them for something as trivial as this (and yes, in the grand scheme of things, this is trivial), we'll all be using PC's in 5-10 years, and we won't have any other choice.

Go ahead, switch to the PC side. Go ahead and try to enjoy your experience over there.
<hr /></blockquote>maroma, I couldn't have said it better myself. I think all of the people on these boards needs to take a step back, count to 10, and rationalize the .mac strategy and cost. As it stands, .mac is $100/year. That's about $8/month, a far cry less than most services who ONLY offer e-mail. Look at it closer and it's only about $.25/day. Imagine that to log onto your computer, you had to insert a quarter, and by doing so get access to all of your e-mail and web services. I'd be willing to do it. $100 is a lot at one time, but if you look at the long term and budget for it, it's remarkably easy to swallow.

ALSO, as far as I can tell, most of the people here are so pissed off because they ALREADY have an iTools account. This means that you all can sign up for ONLY $50. That's $4.16/month. $.13/day. I have an iTools account an am so pleased to see such a great deal offered to all of us all who use our iTools account. AND to see my iDisk (which I use to host my QuickTime movies) go from 20 megs to 100 megs is amazing. PLUS all of the other services such as backup software and whatnot.

I'll agree that at first glance this sucks big fat hairy balls, but a closer look reveals an extremely competitive web service program, one that will entice many new customers, and one that is in no way any reason to go over to Windows.<hr /></blockquote>yup to both of you. I signed up for $50. I think the current services are worth that. I'll re-evaluate every year when my subscription is due.

kman

registered_user · Jul 17, 2002, 03:45 PM

Well, for $7 per month, I get a whole webiste complete with php, 200 MB storage, 10 POP accounts, and my own domain name. For a little bit more, I get to advertise mac.com! I don't think so.

Oh, and who thinks it's a good idea to back up to iDisk? I don't. The last place I want to back up my important data is on someone else's server, especially when they can take it away on a whim.

And, this announcement comes just after Apple offers OS X service pack 1 for $130.

Oh, go Apple. You want to see a switch campaign? I'll show you a switch campaign. (OK, that's probably an empty threat, but still. Hmmm, I guess that's the problem.)

Amorya · Jul 17, 2002, 03:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Richard5mith:
I can fully understand Apple charging, as somebody who runs a free service themselves (www.chatbear.com) I know how giving stuff away can't last forever and will be charging myself soon. I am however keeping a limited free offering, and I'm disappointed Apple aren't doing something similar, by at least keeping an ad-supported free mac.com webmail or something like that.Things can't stay free forever, and unfortunately that's a reality all web users have got to wake up to. Otherwise we'll never recover from the dot com bust (caused by companies who thought they could stay afloat by giving stuff away forever).<hr /></blockquote>I'm in the same position, I'm currently recoding <a href="http://www.scifiminds.net" target="_blank">Scifi Minds</a> to run on PHP, and I'm trying to work out how to make money off it. I've come at it from the perspective to start with the free service then add extras, not start with payment and then add a limited version. All the basic functions will be free, but we will also sell bound printouts of people's data, customised newsfeeds to other sites, email when updates happen, etc... all of which was never offered before. I think Apple should do the same - leave iDisk and @mac.com but add new functions and charge for them.

Amorya

Leonard · Jul 17, 2002, 03:51 PM

Well, I can see that it costs Apple to maintain servers and storage for email, idisk, and the other iTools, but I have an ISP that gives me 5 or 6 free email accounts of which I use 2. I can apparently access these on the web. The ISP gives me a homepage of a certain size. The only thing I've ever really used on iTools is the idisk, to transfer files between Macs, and the iCards. I certainly can use either airport or an external HD for the file transfer and I can find free iCards. I don't see anything that is worth it for me in this ".Mac". I'm not going to use the iCal or iSync. The backup and virus software is a little late, I bought Retrospect and Norton Antivirus long ago. It's not worth it for me.

It may be worth it if you use email, idisk, and the backup and antivirus software.

Developer · Jul 17, 2002, 03:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by wingdo:

Scott, can you (or anyone else) provide some documentation on this "free for Life" idea? MacCentral.com is filled with people talking about it, but noone has any hard proof.<hr /></blockquote>I think it was "you can keep it as long as you like" (not exactly the same as free for life, but it could be misinterpreted that way):

<a href="http://www.apple.com/enews/2000/12/07enews2.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/enews/2000/12/07enews2.html</a>

[ 07-17-2002, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Developer ]

JLFanboy · Jul 17, 2002, 03:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Well, for $7 per month, I get a whole webiste complete with php, 200 MB storage, 10 POP accounts, and my own domain name. For a little bit more, I get to advertise mac.com! I don't think so.
<hr /></blockquote>Well, that's great for you, but I need a very different service. I want a homepage and so do you. But I have no clue how to write HTML and design webpages, so Apple's Homepage feature is perfect for me. It also comes with virus software, backup software, and unparalleled integration with the OS.

I think so. I think so very much.

Brazuca · Jul 17, 2002, 03:54 PM

wow...this is ludicrous.

There are actually people out there that will say anything to rationalize Apple's decisions.

The point is not whether we expected Apple to make such a move or not, the point is that we think it's a shortsighted move that heavily leverages iTools integration with the OS (much like M$ does) to create a new revenue stream.

Some of us don't like the tactics (that sour taste), the strategy (a dumb move to continue the "Switch" campaign), and think that in the end it will end up costing Apple more than it will make it.

But by and large we hate that Apple has not provided an alternative. Why not? Because that would castrate their efforts to leverage .Mac and "force" users to jump in.

And please, grow up. Just because the agreement says that iTools won't be "free forever" doesn't mean that people don't have a right - nay, an obligation - to voice their disapproval of Apple's actions.

The analogy to a drug dealer is very valid, and it's not a coincidence that people are very pissed at this.

And if you are so eager to pay Apple so kiss up to them, hey...pay for my .Mac account (both of them), my parents (one each), my sister, two brothers, girlfriend, etc. Why not? It's only $8/month....

oh, and btw:
Everything you said is wrong....and stupid (to quote someone's sig)

Brazuca · Jul 17, 2002, 03:56 PM

ops...It was so great that the forum wanted to post it twice...

[ 07-17-2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Brazuca ]

mudmonkey · Jul 17, 2002, 03:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
I think it was "you can keep it as long as you like" (not exactly the same as free for life, but it could be misinterpreted that way)<hr /></blockquote>This is all so deja vu from the time after the release of System 7 when Apple announced that the OS would no longer be free. Wow, you think people are mad about some lame .mac now? There was fire & brimstone then...

I think that those with a mac.com email account should continue to have it for free. Anything more and you buy it. That's just my belief of what Apple should have done.

Krypton · Jul 17, 2002, 04:15 PM

You know, if very few people sign up to .Mac it's still not going to be profitable for Apple <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I'm definitely for the idea of only the mac.com email address for free. Looks like I'll be going back to my old POP account...

::maroma:: · Jul 17, 2002, 04:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Brazuca:
wow...this is ludicrous.

There are actually people out there that will say anything to rationalize Apple's decisions. <hr /></blockquote>

No, there are actually people out there who think rationally about Apple's decisions. We aren't jumping to conclusions. We aren't putting words in Apple's mouth. This is day 1, we are being patient and seeing what unfolds.

 <blockquote>quote:<hr />
And please, grow up. Just because the agreement says that iTools won't be "free forever" doesn't mean that people don't have a right - nay, an obligation - to voice their disapproval of Apple's actions.<hr /></blockquote>

Right, but that doesn't mean you have the obligation to use these forums as your platform to vent your disgust with Apple. To be frank, your posts (and others like them) about this here are a waste. It gets absolutely nothing accomplished. You might get a couple people to believe everything you say about it, but that won't change the things that you disapprove of. Use the correct channels for your complaints, and maybe you won't have to do as much complaining.

 <blockquote>quote:<hr />And if you are so eager to pay Apple so kiss up to them, hey...pay for my .Mac account (both of them), my parents (one each), my sister, two brothers, girlfriend, etc. Why not? It's only $8/month....<hr /></blockquote>

I never kiss Apple's ass. I never blindly take whatever they offer. I do however try to look at things from Apple's perspective. I also have the patience and experience with these sort of things to know that reacting like this now isn't very practical. And I also strongly believe in supporting Apple as much as I can. That DOES NOT mean that I support EVERYTHING Apple does. That DOES mean that I am loyal to the brand, and I don't threaten to jump ship whenever something isn't done to my exact needs and wants.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />oh, and btw:
Everything you said is wrong....and stupid (to quote someone's sig)
<hr /></blockquote>Nice conclusion. Glad to see you're acting like an adult.

TT Esq · Jul 17, 2002, 04:34 PM

This definitely smells of something that wasn't thought-out before it was implemented.

For starters, I just wanted to re-emphasize that free mac.com e-mail was something that was promised at another previous keynote as a service that was free for Mac users as an added-value to their hardware purchase. I'm sure someone has that archived somewhere.

But even assuming that $100 isn't a bad deal, here's why it stinks for the average user. Here is my case.

I have a personal mac.com e-mail address, and another one for business use. My wife has a mac.com e-mail address, and my son has a mac.com e-mail address. That's four in this household.

Will this cost me $400 a year? Well, that's unclear.

I have grown accustomed to full "iTools" use, such as iDisk, Home Page, etc. And my son uses Home Page, iDisk, etc., for school. So we would both have to continue with "full access" in order to continue using these features. That's $200 a year right there.

However, we don't need duplicates of a virus checker or backup software. And God knows he doesn't need iSync or a Calendar program. He's only in elementary school. So for $200, we're getting a lot of duplicate stuff and other stuff that we really don't need. So I'd be essentially paying $100 for his mac.com address and Home Page and iDisk, because that's all that would be used.

Now, best possible case, I can add the other two e-mail addresses at $10 each (my wife's and my business e-mail) since neither would ever use any of the other value-added features. HOWEVER, when I went to see about migrating these addresses, I could only ADD new e-mail addresses. So it's unclear if I have to pay $100 for each of these in order to keep them -- or if I can pay the $10 to migrate them into my basic account. If I would have to change the addresses, I will simply go for a free provider. My ISP has five more free e-mail accounts for me that I haven't used yet.

So it looks as if I would have to pay no less than $220 to continue the functionality that my family has been accustomed to, and perhaps $400. I know, I know, they are only half price during the grace period, but I'm thinking about long-term here And that would still come to $120.

I cannot stress enough that I specifically remember iTools been advertised as a free "value-added" service for Mac users. I know some Mac users purchased their Macs with this in mind. So I'm sure that we have not yet seen the end of this!

But this is one story of a less than happy Mac user. . . .

daftpig · Jul 17, 2002, 04:44 PM

Very well, some of you think it's ONLY $8 per month?..

If international sales accounted for 46% of Apple's revenues... Do you think Apple could just survive on the US market itself? Do you really think so? If not, do consider that the US$100 fee will multiply into larger monetary figures for the non-US people.

So when's Apple going like the Titanic did?

starfleetX · Jul 17, 2002, 04:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by wingdo:

Scott, can you (or anyone else) provide some documentation on this "free for Life" idea? MacCentral.com is filled with people talking about it, but noone has any hard proof.<hr /></blockquote>I think it was "you can keep it as long as you like" (not exactly the same as free for life, but it could be misinterpreted that way):

<a href="http://www.apple.com/enews/2000/12/07enews2.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/enews/2000/12/07enews2.html</a><hr /></blockquote>Actually, I believe Steve said it when he announced iTools and mac.com at MWSF '00.

Unfortunately, the stream has recently disappeared...

<a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf00/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf00/</a>

::maroma:: · Jul 17, 2002, 04:46 PM

TT Esq, you make a good point. I'm also not clear on how your situation would work. But I agree, that doesn't seem very well thought out on Apple's part. Maybe they have a plan for that sort of situation. I would write them and try to get an answere.

As for the iTools being free thing...iTools WAS free. It was free for a long time. They never said it would be free for life. They never made that promise. And if anyone thinks that they have a case for a class action suit, they are dreaming. Do you think Apple's legal deparment said "Yeah, we made the guarentee in writing that iTools would be free for life, but go ahead and charge for it...no one will remember!"? Obviously not. Apple's ass is covered here. Move on from the "it was supposed to be free for life" notion and concentrate on the other faults of the program.

TT Esq · Jul 17, 2002, 05:03 PM

::maroma::

I didn't say that it should be "free for life" anywhere in my post. However, I do distinctly remember that Steve said on a NUMBER of occasions that these were value-added services for making the decision for purchasing a Mac. When making a purchasing decision, there are a number of reasons for making a particular purchase, such as the company's reputation for service, the known reliability of the product, etc. Additional services are also one of them.

Now, I know a number of people, myself included, who abandoned their "other" e-mail address in order to get a mac.com address. As Steve said in that keynote, get one of the most prestigious e-mail addresses on the internet, and it's "absolutely free" for Mac users. My understanding wasn't that it would be free -- up until the point when it was no longer free, that is. . . .

I have absolutely no problem with a charge for these new, additional services. Nor would I have a problem if mac.com was no longer free for NEW subscribers. But to do such an about-face definitely has the feeling of having the rug pulled out from under me. . . .

I've tried to contact Apple about "migrating-in" my other e-mail accounts but haven't yet heard back. Granted, I'm sure that they're busier than heck today, which is fine. There is nothing on the knowledge base, and also they want to charge my credit card FIRST before I go to the add screen, so I haven't yet tried that first.

It's kind of too bad that a few great announcements are being overshadowed by this one -- a 17", widescreen iMac has been the holy grail for two years at least -- but it's not getting any real attention today.

I'm sure that this will start sorting itself out over the next few days.

Brazuca · Jul 17, 2002, 05:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ::maroma:::


Right, but that doesn't mean you have the obligation to use these forums as your platform to vent your disgust with Apple. To be frank, your posts (and others like them) about this here are a waste. It gets absolutely nothing accomplished. You might get a couple people to believe everything you say about it, but that won't change the things that you disapprove of. Use the correct channels for your complaints, and maybe you won't have to do as much complaining.
<hr /></blockquote>Did that a long time ago. And these forums are made for exactly this. For us to discuss about issues that concern us.

And all of us here have presented valid, rational reasons for our complaints. You can only say "Go Apple!! I love you!! This isn't so bad!! Stop whining!!"

So go back, read the thread, open your mind, and then come back and apologize for all of us, for your mere presence in this thread has lowered all our IQs.

thunderous_funker · Jul 17, 2002, 05:29 PM

sheesh. I can't believe the reactions to this. Don't wanna pay for stuff you don't need? Fine, don't. Talking about switching to a PC because they are charging for email? Gimme a break. That's just ridiculous. What free email are you going to use on a PC that you can't use now? Pull the nails out and get off your cross, it's really pathetic to see people react so blindly. Don't want to pay for it? Then don't. Are Mac users really this fickle?

You can re-watch every keynote ever delivered and re-read every press release ever given about iTools to find your Free-for-life Fantasy quote. The simple truth was clearly stated in the License Agreement that (apparently) none of you read when you installed it.

Consider a .Mac subscription for what it is. Idiot tax. Don't want to setup your own email server to use whatever email address you care to? Pay up. Don't want to setup your ouwn fileserver so you can get access to files from anywhere? Pay up. Don't want to learn how to make your own webpage? Pay up. Don't want to host your own webpage? Pay up. Don't want to deal with updating your anti-virus? Pay up.

Plenty of people will be willing to pay for this convenience. I'm not one of them. Many people here may agree with me. Is that something to crucify yourself over? Puh-leaze.

Apple doesn't want to foot the bill any more. In fact, they've figured that if they beef it up a bit and promise new services in the future, they can even make it a profit source. Good for them. I'm not a fan of Apple because of what they do for free and i'm happy to see them make money. This particular service just isn't anything I need.

Change email address? No biggie. I've done it doznes of times so far. I'm not my email address. I change it to suit me and change ISP's and providers to suit me. Chaning an email address really doesn't bother me at all. All it requires is a couple of form letters to my Contacts. In fact, it allows me to lose Contacts I don't want emailing me anymore and to get a fresh start on having an inbox free of spam for a couple of months. I actually LIKE changing email addresses from time to time.

Get a life people.

karbon · Jul 17, 2002, 05:29 PM

You can still keep your iTools email for free! Just go to the mail part of mac.com, then click the "Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account" link!

Good news, eh?

karbon · Jul 17, 2002, 05:32 PM

You can still keep your iTools email for free! Just go to the mail part of mac.com, then click the "Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account" link!

Good news, eh?

talisker · Jul 17, 2002, 05:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by daftpig:
Very well, some of you think it's ONLY $8 per month?..

If international sales accounted for 46% of Apple's revenues... Do you think Apple could just survive on the US market itself? Do you really think so? If not, do consider that the US$100 fee will multiply into larger monetary figures for the non-US people.

So when's Apple going like the Titanic did?<hr /></blockquote>It looks like US$100 will be the cost wherever you are. For example, the price quoted on the Apple UK website is $100. So monetary amount is the same for non-US people (for once).

swiz · Jul 17, 2002, 06:25 PM

I dont know. Its not that big a deal to me. Its not like sending out one email to all my contacts notifying them of my new email is such a big deal. Ive never used iDisk or the other iTools things. They arent forcing me to do anything; I'll admit it does seem a little "Micro$oftish" but its certainly nothing that would even get me to approach considering switching platforms. I think that just sounds really freaking idiotic.
Send Apple the negative feedback, change your email address, figure out your backup method... move on.

Developer · Jul 17, 2002, 06:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
You can still keep your iTools email for free! Just go to the mail part of mac.com, then click the "Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account" link!

Good news, eh?<hr /></blockquote>If that is true, I'm perfectly fine with that.

Keep the very basics free, charge for the extras. Sounds very reasonable to me (though the price could scale a little bit better for my taste).

Richard5mith · Jul 17, 2002, 06:37 PM

Hmm, this is interesting actually. If you goto mac.com, click support, then click email on the bottom left one of the options is...

"Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account"

Which is really what most people want. Here's the page...

<a href="http://help.apple.com/mac/1/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm" target="_blank">http://help.apple.com/mac/1/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm</a>

Unfortunately what it says is wrong. There is no "Email Account Management" button.

asxless · Jul 17, 2002, 06:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Richard5mith:
Hmm, this is interesting actually. If you goto mac.com, click support, then click email on the bottom left one of the options is...

"Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account"

Which is really what most people want. Here's the page...

<a href="http://help.apple.com/mac/1/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm" target="_blank">http://help.apple.com/mac/1/help/mail/pgs/mac43.htm</a>

Unfortunately what it says is wrong. There is no "Email Account Management" button.<hr /></blockquote>This page _appears_ to be just one part of a full set of <a href="http://help.apple.com/mac/17/help/general/dotmachelp.htm" target="_blank">help files</a> at for .mac account owners who can add Email only accounts for $10/yr. I _think_ this is telling them how to convert another trial account to be an email only account linked to their .mac account. For example, the link a few aboove it says
"Adding an email-only account

.Mac members can purchase up to 10 additional email accounts for $10.00 each per year. Email-only accounts include 5 megabytes (MB) of storage space, which can't be increased. You can't add photo signatures to messages if you have an email-only account; and other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.

To add an email-only account, go to <a href="http://www.mac.com," target="_blank">www.mac.com,</a> then click Account in the .Mac menu bar. Click the Email Account Management button, then click Create New Account.

Fill out the "Create a new email account" form, then click Continue. Print your account information for future reference, then click Continue. "

FWIW it does not seem likely that Apple would provide 'free' Email only accounts and charge .mac account owers $10/yr for the same service. The good news though is that Apple has provided a reasonable estimate of the $/yr for Email only service <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Has anyone gotten this 'conversion' to work?

asxless in iLand

[ 07-17-2002, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: asxless ]

Mactoid · Jul 17, 2002, 07:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
You can still keep your iTools email for free! Just go to the mail part of mac.com, then click the "Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account" link!

Good news, eh?<hr /></blockquote>This is really, really awesome news if it works. I'm elated

Anyway, to thunderous_funker, having your own domain name and email server is not the solution. I have my own domain name and email server. It's great, however you still need a backup address.

What if i'm away on vacation and something happens to my machine? All that email goes to /dev/null. My friends could handle that. They see it bounces, re-send it, contact me some other way, etc... But mailing lists and other potentially important stuff could get lost if your server is down for a few days.

Also, even if that's not a problem, you do need an address to register your domain name with. ISP given addresses could be used, but I hate having to change my address ever. FYI, no I never get spam (I can't quite explain that), so I would get no benefit from changing addresses. When I signed up for the mac.com address, I though that I was getting a POP3 account that I would have for the long haul. However, no email address is worth $100 dollars a year (and that is all i'm interested in from mac.com).

Mediaman_12 · Jul 17, 2002, 07:36 PM

2 things
1.I have just spent the entire evening switching all my stuff from my cool ******@mac.com (it was short 1 word no numbers & mac related, I got it early using apples US street address as I live in the UK) to my more sucky ******@blueyonder.co.uk address I have set up with my ISP, I have also had to spend time explaining this to my mom, who liked her @mac.com address it was short and easy to remember, compared to ******@blueyonder.co.uk
I also had to set up and move all my sigs to my ISP's free webspace.

I Liked the Mac address because it gave me a stable email address that didn't change when I moved ISP's (I have had 4 different ones since I started using my Mac address) & it wasn't about to disappear

2. I can't seam to find UK pricing for .mac the Apple UK site's .mac tab just leads to a splash page with a link to the US site, charging UK people in US $ is not really on as credit card co's sometimes charge for this & the direct conversion can be a bit odd (49 USD = 31.1987 UKP)

With this and 10.2 costing over �100, this Macintosh thing is turning out to be a dam expensive hobby. (buying that Apple 17" display last month looks like a mistake)

[ 07-17-2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: ]

talisker · Jul 17, 2002, 07:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
2 things
1.I have just spent the entire evening switching all my stuff from my cool ******@mac.com (it was short 1 word no numbers & mac related, I got it early using apples US street address as I live in the UK) to my more sucky ******@blueyonder.co.uk address I have set up with my ISP, I have also had to spend time explaining this to my mom, who liked her @mac.com address it was short and easy to remember, compared to ******@blueyonder.co.uk
I also had to set up and move all my sigs to my ISP's free webspace.

I Liked the Mac address because it gave me a stable email address that didn't change when I moved ISP's (I have had 4 different ones since I started using my Mac address) & it wasn't about to disappear

2. I can't seam to find UK pricing for .mac the Apple UK site's .mac tab just leads to a splash page with a link to the US site, charging UK people in US $ is not really on as credit card co's sometimes charge for this & the direct conversion can be a bit odd (49 USD = 31.1987 UKP)

With this and 10.2 costing over �100, this Macintosh thing is turning out to be a dam expensive hobby. (buying that Apple 17" display last month looks like a mistake)

[ 07-17-2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: ]<hr /></blockquote>In my experience credit card companies usually give you a fairly good rate when they convert from foreign currencies. So better off paying in dollars if you can, lets face it if Apple charged a UK price in pounds it would work out much more than the US price anyway. Apparently 10.2 is 100 pounds in the UK, which works out as $157 at today's rate, against $129 in the US.

Big Mac · Jul 17, 2002, 07:51 PM

Since my initial post I've taken in the keynote and gotten some sleep. I'm much more calm now, but that doesn't mean my anger has completely abated. Here's what I have to say about .mac now:

What's wrong:

I value my money, and I don't spend frivolously - contrary to certain assertion stated here, I still believe $100 is a good amount of money. The sticker shock is considerable when one is asked to pay $100 for services that were previously free. And let's be truthful with one another - the enhanced features and functionality such as additional disk space, back-up software and virus protection are basically superfluous, especially for people who use(d) iTools only for email. To charge us $100 a year just for the privilege of maintaining our mac.com addresses is highly dubious by any standard.

My mac.com address is my main email address, and I've loved having it. Even though I knew the service was never guaranteed, I didn't think Apple would pull a stunt like this. iTools was a benefit Mac users acquired after paying the Apple hardware premium. To abruptly change the terms and to only offer a single pricing plan certainly isn't the way to treat loyal customers. Now if it's true that .mac accounts can be converted to free email only, that's a fine compromise. (I don't see any evidence of that however.)

On the other hand:

There is one way that I can justify Apple instituting this shortsighted policy, and that�s by factoring in the value of Apple�s other offerings. Apple has provided a number of high quality, free iApplications that add a lot of value to our platform. However, we haven't compensated Apple for the freebies we've gotten. .Mac in its new form is a spectacularly lame service - you know that's the case - but I can begrudgingly justify the cost if it's subsidizing iApp development. Let's just hope the tepid reception to .Mac will give Apple some pause so that it thinks twice before embarking on similar strategies in the future.

pliny · Jul 17, 2002, 08:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Big Mac:
Since my initial post I've taken in the keynote and gotten some sleep. I'm much more calm now, but that doesn't mean my anger has completely abated. Here's what I have to say about .mac now:

What's wrong:

I value my money, and I don't spend frivolously - contrary to certain assertion stated here, I still believe $100 is a good amount of money. The sticker shock is considerable when one is asked to pay $100 for services that were previously free. And let's be truthful with one another - the enhanced features and functionality such as additional disk space, back-up software and virus protection are basically superfluous, especially for people who use(d) iTools only for email. To charge us $100 a year just for the privilege of maintaining our mac.com addresses is highly dubious by any standard.

My mac.com address is my main email address, and I've loved having it. Even though I knew the service was never guaranteed, I didn't think Apple would pull a stunt like this. iTools was a benefit Mac users acquired after paying the Apple hardware premium. To abruptly change the terms and to only offer a single pricing plan certainly isn't the way to treat loyal customers. Now if it's true that .mac accounts can be converted to free email only, that's a fine compromise. (I don't see any evidence of that however.)

On the other hand:

There is one way that I can justify Apple instituting this shortsighted policy, and that�s by factoring in the value of Apple�s other offerings. Apple has provided a number of high quality, free iApplications that add a lot of value to our platform. However, we haven't compensated Apple for the freebies we've gotten. .Mac in its new form is a spectacularly lame service - you know that's the case - but I can begrudgingly justify the cost if it's subsidizing iApp development. Let's just hope the tepid reception to .Mac will give Apple some pause so that it thinks twice before embarking on similar strategies in the future.<hr /></blockquote>so are you going to keep your @mac address? i've had mine since the beginning and have only recently made it my primary becasue of the great spam filter. any broadband provider, hell any isp, gives you at least one free address.

Brazuca · Jul 17, 2002, 09:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
sheesh. I can't believe the reactions to this. Don't wanna pay for stuff you don't need? Fine, don't. Talking about switching to a PC because they are charging for email? Gimme a break. That's just ridiculous. What free email are you going to use on a PC that you can't use now? Pull the nails out and get off your cross, it's really pathetic to see people react so blindly. Don't want to pay for it? Then don't. Are Mac users really this fickle?
......
Consider a .Mac subscription for what it is. Idiot tax. Don't want to setup your own email server to use whatever email address you care to? Pay up. Don't want to setup your ouwn fileserver so you can get access to files from anywhere? Pay up. Don't want to learn how to make your own webpage? Pay up. Don't want to host your own webpage? Pay up. Don't want to deal with updating your anti-virus? Pay up.

Plenty of people will be willing to pay for this convenience. I'm not one of them. Many people here may agree with me. Is that something to crucify yourself over? Puh-leaze.

Apple doesn't want to foot the bill any more. In fact, they've figured that if they beef it up a bit and promise new services in the future, they can even make it a profit source. Good for them. I'm not a fan of Apple because of what they do for free and i'm happy to see them make money. This particular service just isn't anything I need.

Change email address? No biggie. I've done it doznes of times so far. I'm not my email address. I change it to suit me and change ISP's and providers to suit me. Chaning an email address really doesn't bother me at all. All it requires is a couple of form letters to my Contacts. In fact, it allows me to lose Contacts I don't want emailing me anymore and to get a fresh start on having an inbox free of spam for a couple of months. I actually LIKE changing email addresses from time to time.

Get a life people.<hr /></blockquote>Yeah...this is exactly why us Mac users like Apple so much. Because they make us pay for features. Oh wait, sorry, I meant to say Microsoft.

Apple is about simplicity, right?? About giving the "idiot" the ability to do what he/she wants without having to worry about learning new things, right?

Oh yeah...but now you'll have to pay....and pay....and pay....and pay....

Way to add to the cost of using a Mac, as if we are not facing an uphill battle already.

Nice job Microso....err...Apple.

madcowherd · Jul 17, 2002, 11:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />And here's another one...don't expect versions of all the iApps to be free in the future either. That way you won't be disappointed when Apple begins charging for them in two or three years. With all these people complaining about the $129 cost, it makes it sound like some of you believe Apple employs hundreds and hundreds of developers for free.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>And OS X is based off BSD, so actually they do have hundreds and hundreds of free developers.

Subzero Diesel949 · Jul 18, 2002, 02:28 AM

Here's my situation (and yes, I hit up the Feedback page):

I just graduated from my school and have lost my school e-mail account. I told all of my contacts to start mailing me at my mac.com account. I have another Yahoo account. Both were checked via Mail.app until Yahoo decided to start charging for POP. Now I only have my Mac.com account. It is also my primary school and personal account. To have to pay $100/yr. for an account that was supposedly "free for life" is ludicrous, considering:

- I'm already paying $20/mo. for my ISP (and have 3 accounts)
- I paid the full price for OS X 10.0 plus $20 for 10.1
- I got milked $1699 for my iBook 600 that became outdated within the first month (bought in December 2001)
- I am told that I will be charged $100 for an e-mail address that can only be checked via another ISP or through Mail.app. At least if I change ISPs I would still have my Mac.com account
-I am only using my iDisk account for my e-mail and web site. Nothing else.

iTools was sufficient for my needs, while .Mac appears to be the bloated big cousin. I'm not trying to knock the service for those that need it, but Apple should keep iTools as the "lite" version and force users to pay if they want more features. As it stands 10 MB of space and my e-mail is all I need. Their claims of the cost to run the service may be legit, but perhaps a good number of those accounts are inactive/abandoned. Users should be limited to one account that must be active.

I don't need to pay $100 for a glorified e-mail account!!!

daftpig · Jul 18, 2002, 02:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by talisker:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by daftpig:
Very well, some of you think it's ONLY $8 per month?..

If international sales accounted for 46% of Apple's revenues... Do you think Apple could just survive on the US market itself? Do you really think so? If not, do consider that the US$100 fee will multiply into larger monetary figures for the non-US people.

So when's Apple going like the Titanic did?<hr /></blockquote>It looks like US$100 will be the cost wherever you are. For example, the price quoted on the Apple UK website is $100. So monetary amount is the same for non-US people (for once).<hr /></blockquote>Hmm where did you find that? The thing is, Apple Asia serves Asia.. so it's not possible for it to serve up a page like Apple UK did. Plus almost all the pages on Apple Asia link back to Apple US.

billybob · Jul 18, 2002, 02:42 AM

Doesn't anyone remember the ipod debaccle?

"400 BUCKS WTF!!!! ME MAC USER AND VERY MAD!!!!! I WONT PAY THAT!!!!"

And then they sell 125,000 in like 3 or 4 months.

I dont like the changes either, but after the initial bitching I'm sure enough people will pay for .mac that apple won't change anything. Free email with nothing else would be nice. I'm not going to pay 99 bucks for this, even though I love my email there. I have other email accounts that will continue to work just fine...

Gee4orce · Jul 18, 2002, 02:53 AM

Hmmm. I wouldn't mind, but Mac.com Webmail has just simply not been working properly ever since the keynote was announced. OK - charge me for it, but make the service better, not worse !!