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KellyHogan · May 30, 2002, 04:33 PM

Not satisfied with selling underpowered machines at high prices, Apple is now selling refurbished machines at up to 45% discount off the original retail price. Apple is now a second hand computer vendor. But only on Wednesdays.

<a href="http://registration.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/" target="_blank">http://registration.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/</a>

It would be nice to have a new Ti-Book model at 'up to' 45% off. But there's a catch on Apple's website. Quote:

What should I expect when I buy a refurbished product?
- A price discount of up to 45%.
- A fully functional unit, with complete documentation.
- The assurance that the unit meets Apple quality levels, and that its defective components have been replaced by genuine Apple components.
- The risk that your unit may present minor cosmetic imperfection, such as scratches, marks, discolouration, etc.

As you can see from the final point, Apple will not reveal to buyers what imperfections are on the purchaser's model. The purchaser has to accept that there is a 'risk' and will find out the results of their purchase when their goods are delivered. Some scratches, on iPods especially, are only to be expected. But 'discoloration'? Does this include off colors on a TFT screen?

Mr. Blur · May 30, 2002, 04:42 PM

...our weekly kelly hogan thread.......yawn......plunk.

wataru · May 30, 2002, 04:54 PM

Is KellyHogan desperate... for attention?

Lemme check the Magic 8-ball...

All signs point to yes!

Get a life.

direktor · May 30, 2002, 04:59 PM

And if there was ever any doubt that Kelly was/is a troll...

My god. How unbelievably lame.

besson3c · May 30, 2002, 05:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What should I expect when I buy a refurbished product?
- A price discount of up to 45%.
- A fully functional unit, with complete documentation.
- The assurance that the unit meets Apple quality levels, and that its defective components have been replaced by genuine Apple components.
- The risk that your unit may present minor cosmetic imperfection, such as scratches, marks, discolouration, etc.
<hr /></blockquote>- useless threads from everybody's favorite player of devil's advocate here to enlighten all of us disillusioned Apple cult followers
- the opportunity to watch this individual waste his time defending himself from the inevitable backlash
- warnings from others about how we shouldn't take the bait
- this individual relentlessly pushing his points for as long as humanly possible, giving absolutely no concessions to his arguements
- hurt feelings, frustration, groundhog day, fancy physics
- mods shutting down the thread
- this process repeated again at the next available opportunity

KellyHogan · May 30, 2002, 05:08 PM

Jeez, talk about curbing free speech since 9-11. Ashcroft and Rumsfield would love this thread.

A great subject worht mentioning, a travesty to customers if they recieved very bad Macs at 'their risk', Apple indulging in selling second hand products. And what do I get? 15 year old fanatics.

lookmark · May 30, 2002, 05:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by besson3c:
- useless threads from everybody's favorite player of devil's advocate here to enlighten all of us disillusioned Apple cult followers
- the opportunity to watch this individual waste his time defending himself from the inevitable backlash
- warnings from others about how we shouldn't take the bait
- this individual relentlessly pushing his points for as long as humanly possible, giving absolutely no concessions to his arguements
- hurt feelings, frustration, groundhog day, fancy physics
- mods shutting down the thread
- this process repeated again at the next available opportunity[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>(chuckle) Prophetic, besson3c.

Addendeum: hey folks, drop this silly thread like a hot potato and check out <a href="http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=46;t=006497#000015" target="_blank"> kangoo_boo's dishy report on Jaguar Build 6C48...</a>

[ 05-30-2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: lookmark ]

hyperizer · May 30, 2002, 05:22 PM

never mind...

[ 05-30-2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: hyperizer ]

ls -al · May 30, 2002, 05:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Jeez, talk about curbing free speech since 9-11. Ashcroft and Rumsfield would love this thread.

A great subject worht mentioning, a travesty to customers if they recieved very bad Macs at 'their risk', Apple indulging in selling second hand products. And what do I get? 15 year old fanatics.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think it is a matter of free speech inasmuch as a matter of lost credibility. After your hateful posts where you advocated that certain members should commit suicide for not agreeing with you, or dismissing detailed explanations as fancy physics without offering quantitative proof, it is hard to take you seriously.

IMHO, you've become the laughing stock of the forums. Sad but true.

msuper69 · May 30, 2002, 05:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Jeez, talk about curbing free speech since 9-11. Ashcroft and Rumsfield would love this thread.
<hr /></blockquote>Who's curbing free speech?

Not in this thread. People are simply responding appropriately to the subject matter.

I doubt if anybody from any government is the least bit interested in any Macnn thread, much less this particular pearl of wisdom.

Mac Guru · May 30, 2002, 05:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> a travesty to customers if they recieved very bad Macs at 'their risk' <hr /></blockquote>Ummm are you so thick as to think Apple is trying to pull over a fast one? People send in a broken unit. Apple sends them a new one and keeps the broken model. It's repaired and sold as is. They have TONS of these things and to say that you expect them to look into your box and report to you any and all defects is flat out retarded.

SONY sells refurbished units with scratches, dents, and nicks all over them and sell them AS IS. JUST like Apple, oh but wait... that's SONY, they can get away with it right?

You have nothing better to do with your time? Oh and for the record I'm 23.

Mac Guru

sshand · May 30, 2002, 05:34 PM

yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn..............

I can't believe I'm responding to this.

What the hell does it have to do with OSX??

I used to come to these boards for discussion and info on the topic I click on. No more. It's crap.

I'm sure others feel the same. Are there any moderators on these boards?

faragbre967 · May 30, 2002, 06:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Jeez, talk about curbing free speech since 9-11. Ashcroft and Rumsfield would love this thread.

A great subject worht mentioning, a travesty to customers if they recieved very bad Macs at 'their risk', Apple indulging in selling second hand products. And what do I get? 15 year old fanatics.<hr /></blockquote>First of all, f*ck you, I'm 15, and I love Apple (making me a fanatic).
Second, No one is curbing your free speech, you can say what you want, it's just that people hate what you say. I've read a lot of the posts you make, and you're really just pushing people away from macnn.
Third, if you're buying refurbished products, expect defects, you get what you pay for. Apple is simply making money off the products they would normally throw out.

bmedina · May 30, 2002, 06:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> it's just that people hate what you say <hr /></blockquote>It's not that we hate what he says. It's that his posts are often pointless, and he can't concede that he's ever wrong (who's 15?). I can't help but think he only posts to get attention and get people mad.

So yeah, I guess we do hate what he says, because it's a waste of our time.

::maroma:: · May 30, 2002, 06:32 PM

Someone please do something!! KH is single handedly bringing down this entire board. He turns any thread that he's even remotely a part of into a worthless page of BS. He continues to insult and belittle everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest. None of his posts are productive. Nothing he does here is productive.

WHERE ARE THE MODS?? Isn't it the mods job to police these sort of people?? Aren't they supposed to see this, and DO something about it?? All the Mods seem to do is move threads around, and close threads that should've been closed a long tim ago.

I've only been here for a short while (compared to some), and even I have seen the decline in quality. And where I realize that it isn't JUST KH, I also realize that KH is definitely the biggest offender.

Yet he is still here. Still spewing his meaningless crap all over this board.

I wonder how many quality users this board has lost because of KH?

Keep up the good work KH! Soon enough, you'll be the only one left! (oh, you and the "Mods" (and I use the term loosely))

Don Pickett · May 30, 2002, 08:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Jeez, talk about curbing free speech since 9-11. Ashcroft and Rumsfield would love this thread.<hr /></blockquote>Very carefully pry open that dusty vault you call a head and kickstart your brain. Now, listen:

MacNN, as a privately owned site, is under no impetus to respect anyone's free speech. The First Amendment applies to governmental agencies and legislative bodies. It does not bear on private speech. In other words, if you come into my home and say something I don't like, I can kick your butt outta there. Similarly, if someone says something the owners of MacNN don't like, they are free to do whatever they wish to that person.

That is all.

BuonRotto · May 30, 2002, 09:04 PM

This business about Apple not disclosing the individual defects of refurbished products isn't very unique to Apple. Actually, most places do this with exception sometimes to specialty shops that do nothing but sell restocked items, sometimes not even then. Now, I could just as easily point out that Apple's warranties aren't as strong as other industry warranties. But then again, that applies to the entire computer industry. You have an OK point though you would have to be pretty naive to think that they're just tossing out good-as-new stuff at deep discounts, but it's not unique to one company.

unimacs · May 30, 2002, 09:43 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Not satisfied with selling underpowered machines at high prices, Apple is now selling refurbished machines at up to 45% discount off the original retail price. Apple is now a second hand computer vendor. But only on Wednesdays.

<snip>

As you can see from the final point, Apple will not reveal to buyers what imperfections are on the purchaser's model. The purchaser has to accept that there is a 'risk' and will find out the results of their purchase when their goods are delivered. Some scratches, on iPods especially, are only to be expected. But 'discoloration'? Does this include off colors on a TFT screen?<hr /></blockquote>It seems to me that this kind of deal is perfect for those who complain that Apple puts form over function and economy. Now these folks can buy a fully functional Mac at a huge discount. The only down side is a few scratches that they won't care about anyway.

Everybody wins.

For the record, I've bought both a refurb Cube and 15 inch Studio Display from Apple (not scratch and dents though) and they've been perfect. Not a scratch. Not even a dead pixel.

kangoo_boo · May 30, 2002, 10:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lookmark:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by besson3c:
- useless threads from everybody's favorite player of devil's advocate here to enlighten all of us disillusioned Apple cult followers
- the opportunity to watch this individual waste his time defending himself from the inevitable backlash
- warnings from others about how we shouldn't take the bait
- this individual relentlessly pushing his points for as long as humanly possible, giving absolutely no concessions to his arguements
- hurt feelings, frustration, groundhog day, fancy physics
- mods shutting down the thread
- this process repeated again at the next available opportunity<hr /></blockquote>(chuckle) Prophetic, besson3c.

Addendeum: hey folks, drop this silly thread like a hot potato and check out <a href="http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=46;t=006497#000015" target="_blank"> kangoo_boo's dishy report on Jaguar Build 6C48...</a>[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>lol
now with pics!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ))

foobars · May 31, 2002, 01:57 AM

Yeah what the hell? When I buy a TiBook at half the resale value I expect it to be in PERFECT shape. Its not like it's USED OR ANYTHING!

PS- You're an idiot.

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 03:21 AM

Well I hope you all don't come to these forums to complain when you buy one with a screen that shows blues as purples and pinks as reds.

Big Mac · May 31, 2002, 03:39 AM

I used to be annoyed over the antics of the little b**ch Kelly Hogan. But now the threads are quite humorous to me. Everyone sees you for what you are, Kelly.

Everyone must realize, though, that if we don't want Kelly around, we simply don't have to feed it. Don't feed the troll. Instead of replying to tell the sucker off, why not simply allow the threads to fall away into the abyss without any replies? Either way though. . .

AKcrab · May 31, 2002, 03:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Well I hope you all don't come to these forums to complain when you buy one with a screen that shows blues as purples and pinks as reds.<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, that would be like looking at the world through Hogan colored lenses. How sad.

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 03:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Big Mac:
I used to be annoyed over the antics of the little b**ch Kelly Hogan. But now the threads are quite humorous to me. Everyone sees you for what you are, Kelly.

. .<hr /></blockquote>I dont know why you keep saying this 'everyone sees you for what you are crap'. I'm merely pointing out a shoddy service. You want to insult a person for disagreeing sometimes with a computer company? **** me, you guys must have seriously small worlds.

BTW, Big Mac, do you still believe there should be a Palestinian holocaust and that all descendents of Jews who are now Muslim and speak Arabic should be kicked out of their homes?

Now that is serious stuff! Attacking me for such simple things does not even compare.

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 03:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Someone please do something!! KH is single handedly bringing down this entire board. He turns any thread that he's even remotely a part of into a worthless page of BS. He continues to insult and belittle everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest. None of his posts are productive. Nothing he does here is productive.

WHERE ARE THE MODS?? Isn't it the mods job to police these sort of people?? Aren't they supposed to see this, and DO something about it?? All the Mods seem to do is move threads around, and close threads that should've been closed a long tim ago.

I've only been here for a short while (compared to some), and even I have seen the decline in quality. And where I realize that it isn't JUST KH, I also realize that KH is definitely the biggest offender.

Yet he is still here. Still spewing his meaningless crap all over this board.

I wonder how many quality users this board has lost because of KH?

Keep up the good work KH! Soon enough, you'll be the only one left! (oh, you and the "Mods" (and I use the term loosely))<hr /></blockquote>More slander and disinformation.

Fotek2001 · May 31, 2002, 04:00 AM

Why is this is in the OS X Discussion forum???? No wonder everyone thinks KH is a loser if he can't even post something like this in the lounge of hardware forums.

theolein · May 31, 2002, 04:10 AM

KH -
1.Apple states that the computers are funtional in repsonse to your original troll.
2.This belongs in the lounge.
3.You are going to get banned very soon. Why? Because you constantly troll and fail to see any reason whasoever when people talk to you and go on about free speech etc when that is something that you wouldn't allow anyone else if the ball was on the other side.
4.Bye KH. It wasn't nice knowing you.

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 04:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
KH -
1.Apple states that the computers are funtional in repsonse to your original troll.
2.This belongs in the lounge.
3.You are going to get banned very soon. Why? Because you constantly troll and fail to see any reason whasoever when people talk to you and go on about free speech etc when that is something that you wouldn't allow anyone else if the ball was on the other side.
4.Bye KH. It wasn't nice knowing you.<hr /></blockquote>Yawn. Reincarnartion.

qaramel2001 · May 31, 2002, 04:17 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />KHogan wrote:
I'm merely pointing out a shoddy service<hr /></blockquote>Can you provide some real samples of that 'shoddy' service?

[ 05-31-2002, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: qaramel2001 ]

theolein · May 31, 2002, 04:23 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
KH -
1.Apple states that the computers are funtional in repsonse to your original troll.
2.This belongs in the lounge.
3.You are going to get banned very soon. Why? Because you constantly troll and fail to see any reason whasoever when people talk to you and go on about free speech etc when that is something that you wouldn't allow anyone else if the ball was on the other side.
4.Bye KH. It wasn't nice knowing you.<hr /></blockquote>Yawn. Reincarnartion.<hr /></blockquote>This is what I mean. I have asked the admins to have you banned. The reasons being that you seem to be unable to use any form of reason above the level of a 7 year old child, and I'm not being insulting here. It really does come across like that. Your constant trolling is irritating at best and even when literaly hundreds of people tell you this fact you ignore it.

Moonray · May 31, 2002, 04:35 AM

I don't know what's shoddy there if I get 45% off for a scratch... did I miss something?

-

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 04:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Moonray:
I don't know what's shoddy there if I get 45% off for a scratch... did I miss something?

-<hr /></blockquote>A scratch is OK. But bad hard drive sectors, low screen brightness or bad on screen colors or errorsome RAM is not OK. I don't know what the policy on these will be but it seems Apple is leaving that up to the pruchaser's 'risk'. WE'll have to wait to see on Wednesday if Apple is going to make more details available.

(This type of Q and A is how a thread is supposed to be. Firing childish insults at people who are NOT trolling and then requesting them to be banned is 'censorship).

KellyHogan · May 31, 2002, 04:49 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by qaramel2001:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />KHogan wrote:
I'm merely pointing out a shoddy service<hr /></blockquote>Can you provide some real samples of that 'shoddy' service?<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, sure. Try the Power Mac, PowerBook, iMac and ibook forums and dearch for any thread where people had to send their machines back for repairs. 7/10 seem to be pretty ****ed off. That excludes me BTW because I've sent machines back twice to Apple and have had a very good service.

JC Denton · May 31, 2002, 04:49 AM

This is already the first post on the first page, so I'm not doing any harm. Anyways, why can't people be content to let this post surf its way on to the second page? Aren't there other threads whose outcome isn't so predictable and hackneyed that could use your insight?

I mean, what else needs to be said in response to, "Is Apple Desperate?" besides:

"No."

P · May 31, 2002, 04:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Well I hope you all don't come to these forums to complain when you buy one with a screen that shows blues as purples and pinks as reds.<hr /></blockquote>I assure you I won't. Now please go away.

Does anyone know how that "Ignore User" link on the profile screen is supposed to work? It doesn't seem to do anything.

Moonray · May 31, 2002, 04:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
A scratch is OK. But bad hard drive sectors, low screen brightness or bad on screen colors or errorsome RAM is not OK. I don't know what the policy on these will be but it seems Apple is leaving that up to the pruchaser's 'risk'.<hr /></blockquote>Well, but...
<blockquote>quote:<hr />From <a href="http://registration.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/:" target="_blank">http://registration.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/:</a>
- The assurance that the unit meets Apple quality levels, and that its defective components have been replaced by genuine Apple components.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think that bad hard drive sectors, low screen brightness or bad on screen colors or errorsome RAM would meet Apple quality levels.

-

qaramel2001 · May 31, 2002, 05:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />KHogan wrote:

Yeah, sure. Try the Power Mac, PowerBook, iMac and ibook forums and dearch for any thread where people had to send their machines back for repairs. 7/10 seem to be pretty ****ed off. That excludes me BTW because I've sent machines back twice to Apple and have had a very good service. <hr /></blockquote>a) How many of those machines were bought as 'refurbished' and how many of them were bought as 'new'? (Something to take into account, as you are talking about the re-sale service)

b) Those people complaining, what % to the total no. of buyers do they add up to? (again, ****ed off people tend to post more often than happy people - I can't provide figures on that, but I think that's something we all agree) How does that % compares with the industry standard?

c) If you have received "very good service" on two different occasions, what are you complaining of?

Spheric Harlot · May 31, 2002, 06:24 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
- The risk that your unit may present minor cosmetic imperfection, such as scratches, marks, discolouration, etc.

Some scratches, on iPods especially, are only to be expected. But 'discoloration'? Does this include off colors on a TFT screen?<hr /></blockquote>Um. Nobody has pointed this out yet, but this is the basis of the entire bull thread here, and it is just Kelly being either wilfully or genuinely DENSE.

"Discoloration" as a "minor cosmetic imperfection" is obviously *case* discoloration, such as tiBook paint, etc.

Off-colors on a TFT screen do not, by *any* stretch of the imagination, constitute a "minor cosmetic imperfection", but rather a functional impairment.

I can't believe this caused confusion and the ensuing hackfest.

-spheric*

SMacTech · May 31, 2002, 07:50 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
A scratch is OK. But bad hard drive sectors, low screen brightness or bad on screen colors or errorsome RAM is not OK. <hr /></blockquote>My understanding is they will come with a warranty, so the above problems, if they would exist in the used equipment would be covered under warranty. Any computer returned to a manufacturer, for any reason, must be sold as refurbished. I don't think Apple is passing off hardware that had problems, and didn't fix the problems and merely created a 45% off Wednesday only sale.

mahoney2 · May 31, 2002, 08:50 AM

kelly, since when is bad hard drive sectors or the screen displaying the wrong colors cosmetic? Moron.

OreoCookie · May 31, 2002, 09:29 AM

Would someone close this thread rather sooner than later, or at least move it to the appropriate section. This has nothing to do with MacOS X (i. e. software).

This is just another flame war.

dfiler · May 31, 2002, 09:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
I dont know why you keep saying this 'everyone sees you for what you are crap'. I'm merely pointing out a shoddy service.
...<hr /></blockquote>Its not just his perception Kelly, its pretty much everyone's. Your purposely inflamatory and uninformed posts have rightfully given you a bad reputation. Hopefully you can get out of this social rut someday and interact with people in a healthy manner... we've finally given up on trying to have honest discussions with you.

undotwa · May 31, 2002, 09:58 AM

This thread does not deserve to exist. It's reason of being here is flawed, and KellyHogan is obviously trying to be a troll (IE get predictable responses for attention).

Mods, close this thread.

spiggott · May 31, 2002, 11:10 AM

Close this thread. I can't beleive I got sucked into reading the whole thing - what a waste of time! KH, you're a moronic pain in the *ss.

::maroma:: · May 31, 2002, 11:19 AM

Let's hear it for the Mods for being so on top of these things!

Hip hip! Hooraayy!

<img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Bluebomber21XX · May 31, 2002, 11:28 AM

I'll 4th that!

Stamp a CLOSED sticker on this one.

Bluebomber21XX · May 31, 2002, 11:41 AM

I'll 4th that!

Stamp a CLOSED sticker on this one.

KidRed · May 31, 2002, 12:16 PM

Yes, MODS, why do you close good topics but let this troll keep ****ing on our side of the bridge?

Spirit_VW · May 31, 2002, 12:16 PM

Why the heck is this still open and/or in OS X discussion? Shouldn't it have been moved to the Lounge or (preferably) closed by now? This has nothing to do with OS X.

iKevin · May 31, 2002, 12:18 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by direktor:
And if there was ever any doubt that Kelly was/is a troll...

My god. How unbelievably lame.<hr /></blockquote>What's troll mean in forum lingo? I've seen it used a few times