[PSST]

Hey all.

I wanted to throw this idea out there, that I was thinking and wondering about:

Will Apple ever make an OS that functions like OS 9 but has the features of X? Can't it be done?

I'm talking about a system that function and behaves with the simplicity of OS 9, but with OS X with unix, protected memory, other things like that kind of like Rhapsody I guess or Copland or whatever.

I'm hoping for it, especially since the IPOD, the IPOD Shuffle, and the mac mini are such big hits.

In all fairness, I have tried OS X, and used it, and hate it....

I also completely agree with OS 9 shortcomings from others...

But, I'm think if Apple is going to bring in more casual users, more switchers whatever by these 3 products, then the System is going to have to be more user-friendly, I think....

And please since we're on the subject Apple go back to naming System X not OS X, no one cares about uniformity in names any more.
Especially since I think Apple and Microsoft should stay as unique and distinctive as possible.

But seriously can't this be done with an operating system? Why or why not?

Please no flaming or warring, I just wanted to discuss this, and respect everyone's opinions.

Thanks.

[PSST]

Oh, and does anyone know the definitive number of OS 9 users and OS X users lately?

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by PSST:
Will Apple ever make an OS that functions like OS 9 but has the features of X? Can't it be done?

Some would argue that's what Apple did with OS X. What specifically is wrong with OS X's behavior?

[hudson1]

I don't think it's possible to answer your question directly until you tell us more about why you don't (or didn't) like OS X. Which version? What machine did you run it on? Were your problems with specific application performance or something else?

With that, I think people can give you a fair assessment of whether OS X will ever become what you're looking for.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by PSST:
Will Apple ever make an OS that functions like OS 9 but has the features of X? Can't it be done?

Why would they want to do that? If 10.4 were as solid as 9.2 it would be that much more difficult to sell 10.5. The trick to software development is to produce something good enough that people will buy the next version in the hope that it will be better.

[MacGorilla]

They did roughly what you describe with Mac OS X Server 1.x. It was the OS 9 UI on top of a mach/bsd kernel. Interesting OS but it was never intended to be the new os.

[PSST]

Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

What about if there are disk troubles?

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

but what if you didn't want to keep doing that....

I'm sorry but 9 and X are just different, and I know i'm not alone...

I know there were people complaints about 9 but what amazes me, is that no one really complained at the time. Plus 9 only was out there for 4 years.

All I'm saying is that Apple spent 15 years perfecting their System and yes OS X is an evolution but why can't there still be the best of both worlds?

Plus, I've come to understand that it doesn't seem to be anything like a "stable" system in any operating system.

[PSST]

I understand that operating systems need to grow and evolve like System 6, 7 even X.

But I hope that in the future the System becomes more of a background thing, rather than spending hours to install 2 DVD's worth of stuff... I'm generalizing....

But still if OS X is so great than why are there so many 9 users out there?

Plus, in the past, I always adopted a new system and have had a Macintosh since 1992, from System 7 and went through to 8, and 9.

[chris v]

I vastly prefer column view for most daily use in the Finder. Occasionally, I'll sort by list to find something by date or file type, but for browsing folder hierarchy, no OS I've seen has anything like the ease-of-use that column view has. In OS 9, I'd either end up with 18 finder windows open, or one window with 18 disclosure triangles turned, and a list 1000 lines long.

I will go to my grave happier if I never have to troubleshoot an extension set again as long as I live. I will gladly never network machines through the Chooser again. I will gladly never select printers through the chooser again. I will gladly not restart my computers 5 or 6 times a week (on a good week) due to hard crashes.

Other things I love about OS X: The Terminal (ssh rules. top & kill are handy), Aqua, Preference Panes, Protected memory, no defragging, MONTHS of uptime instead of days, pre-emptive multitasking (try printing from Illustrator while batch-processing in Photoshop, while burning a CD and reading email in OS 9. Go ahead, try) real security, Safari, iChat, Mounting remote volumes in the Finder, Core Audio.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

[Millennium]

http://www.thalo.net is probably the best place for you to go at this point.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by PSST:
Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

Like what? Preferences? Extensions? In OS9, most things couldn't be moved out of the System Folder without ceasing to function; what makes this any different?

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

Then don't. You don't need to.

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

That's your own fault, for logging in as root. There is a reason Apple does everything it can to keep people out of that account.

All I'm saying is that Apple spent 15 years perfecting their System and yes OS X is an evolution but why can't there still be the best of both worlds?

Ask the Copland team, and you'll find your answers. It just didn't work, and there were good reasons for that.

[PSST]

Thanks, but why, all I wanted to do was just discuss this, not rant or rave.

So, if I understand the moderator correctly, if I like 9 well please leave.

Besides, I'm a member of this community and wanted to discuss this here.

What is so wrong with that?

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by PSST:
I understand that operating systems need to grow and evolve like System 6, 7 even X.

But I hope that in the future the System becomes more of a background thing, rather than spending hours to install 2 DVD's worth of stuff... I'm generalizing....

But still if OS X is so great than why are there so many 9 users out there?

Plus, in the past, I always adopted a new system and have had a Macintosh since 1992, from System 7 and went through to 8, and 9.

People still use OS 9 because the hardware running it still works so why fix something that isn't broken? Also, some still have apps that run on older systems that aren't written for OS X...or even OS 8/9. Some publishing and design firms may still use OS 9 since newer versions of apps written for OS X aren't compatible with the older version. There are many reasons people haven't upgraded and no one can force them. It's not a bad thing to run it if you absolutely need it.

[chris v]

Originally posted by PSST:
Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

What about if there are disk troubles?

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

but what if you didn't want to keep doing that....

I'm sorry but 9 and X are just different, and I know i'm not alone...

I know there were people complaints about 9 but what amazes me, is that no one really complained at the time. Plus 9 only was out there for 4 years.

See, I'm the exact opposite-- I would have killed for a terminal-like utility in OS 9. Troubleshooting 9 was opaque, and crash recovery almost non-existent.

Remove things from you OS 9 system folder and things go crazy, too. Those "things" are part of your OS. Moot point. The difference with 9 was that it was more opaque: IE you couldn't dig down into the base system at all. Safer, but not very accessible.

Apple, and every OS savvy person on the planet will warn against logging in as Root, especially if you don't know what a root user is for. If you ignore these warnings, and start moving stuff around, or deleting things without knowing what they're for, things will "go crazy."

This is like bitching that because you can access your car engine via the hood, the car manufacturer is to blame when you rip out all the water hoses and your car overheats.

[chris v]

Originally posted by Millennium:
http://www.thalo.net is probably the best place for you to go at this point.

Could be where he came from.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by PSST:
Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

If you moved something out of the OS 9 System folder things went crazy as well.

What about if there are disk troubles?

You run Disk First Aid just like in OS 9 or you run one of the third party disk repair tools like in OS 9.

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

You don't have to. I have used the Terminal, but I have never used it to fix something.

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

Never log in as root. That's why it is disabled by Apple in the first place.

but what if you didn't want to keep doing that....

System Preferences->Accounts->Login Options->Automatically log in and you don't have to bother with logging in again. And don't enable root.

So what remains? You have some occasional trouble with file permissions, but this should be very rare if you only log-in into one account. And the Finder isn't really spatial, but that's mere academic and you didn't complain about that.

OS X is the best of both worlds (just don't enable root).

[PSST]

Umm..... I thought these forums were open to free speech and opinions, I'm not trying to offend or be offended. I was trying to have a thoughtful discussion, and learn something and be educated about both 9 and X. Millenium, your comments surprise me. I hope that the Apple Macintosh community is not as splintered and fragmented. Besides overall, we are Apple users, and believe in a System and way of doing things different, and choices over Windows.

I'm sorry but I'm sadden to know that a moderator could send me away to some evanglists site for no reason.

[chris v]

Originally posted by PSST:
Thanks, but why, all I wanted to do was just discuss this, not rant or rave.

So, if I understand the moderator correctly, if I like 9 well please leave.

Besides, I'm a member of this community and wanted to discuss this here.

What is so wrong with that?

Not really true. I liked OS 9. It sure was better than Windows 98. You haven't really explained what things about 9 seemed better to you, though, other than being frozen out of the System folder.

[Dog Like Nature]

Originally posted by PSST:
Thanks, but why, all I wanted to do was just discuss this, not rant or rave.

So, if I understand the moderator correctly, if I like 9 well please leave.

Besides, I'm a member of this community and wanted to discuss this here.

What is so wrong with that?

No-one's suggesting you leave. What we're trying to do is extoll the virtues of OS X. It is, in most people's opinion, superior in every way to OS 9. You just need to give it time!

[Turnpike]

Originally posted by PSST:
Thanks, but why, all I wanted to do was just discuss this, not rant or rave.

So, if I understand the moderator correctly, if I like 9 well please leave.

Besides, I'm a member of this community and wanted to discuss this here.

What is so wrong with that?

He's just trying to answer your questions. Your indictment (maybe too harsh, but something along those lines) of OS X is based on rather vague anecdotes, some of which were things that aren't true. You said you used OS X and tried it, but it seems quite clear that when you tried it you either spent all the time dwelling on how it isn't 9 or panicking because it was unfamiliar and you had heard rumors. Perhaps you read a MacWorld around when OS X was announced that said something about Terminal access and you thought that meant you'd have to learn it... so when you got OS X, you looked at Terminal.app and said "wow, that doesn't look easy".

And you saw something vague, perhaps, about user accounts and thought "Hey, root user can do more stuff! I should be that!" without bothering to notice that it can't do anything more useful than an administrator account for 99.99% of users.


That's why you got a strange reaction from people... your criticisms are either too vague to be pinned down or are inaccurate.

and remember that Millenium is also a member of this community, not only a moderator. While moderators should be role models and good forum members, that doesn't mean they have to be saints or that they should do everything they can to make sure the discussion that you want to have happens here. He just suggested a site that might be a little more geared towards what you want to talk about.

[PSST]

TETENAL,

So if I understand you correctly if I went and purchased a copy of OS X.3 whatever, that I wouldn't not feel at all uncomfortable, and could get around OS X like 9? Is it that simple? My experience with OS X was so bad, that I could see why people didn't leave OS 9.

Is there a program or something for os 9 or some add-on to enable protective multi-tasking, or something so that if a program crashed that you would have to restart the machine?

[cpac]

Originally posted by PSST:
Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

Just like if you moved things out of teh System Folder in OS 9...

To the extent things really have changed, - it's part and parcel of having a truly multi-user OS - and since OS 9 didn't really have a good way of dealing with that, I don't think OS X is a step down.

(the only valid criticism I see is Apple's updaters not being able to see Applications that are in sub-folders of the Applications folder. That's something that should definitely be fixed - but again, it's a minor point)

What about if there are disk troubles?

Same as in OS 9 - run Disk Repair or something stronger like DiskWarrior.

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

You don't have to at all.
I certainly don't, and I'm able to do all the trouble-shooting I need without using Terminal at all.

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

Ok - first problem is that you did some hack to enable a root account. Why? THE REASON not to have root enabled (default in OS X) is for precisely this reason!

but what if you didn't want to keep doing that....

Doing what? Not logging in as root? I never log in as root, and I get by just fine.

If you mean, not wanting to log in as an Administrator vs. a non-admin user, you have to realize a couple things: (1) Even as an Admin, it's hard to screw up your system (usually you'd be prompted to re-enter your password before you could do anything serious, and some things you still could not do, even as an admin). (2) If you're paranoid and want to stick with using a non-admin account, you've got a couple things that make life easier, including especially Fast User Switching.

I'm sorry but 9 and X are just different, and I know i'm not alone...

Yes they are different. The single biggest difference, I've found among those who are long-time Mac users, is the switch to a truly multi-user environment. This means changing the way you think about things:

(1) the Applications folder belongs to EVERYONE
(2) You should now use your Home folder as the starting point that you used to use the "Macintosh HD" as before
(3) The Library (libraries) are where preferences and caches and things like that are - all the stuff you used to go looking for in the System Folder isn't there, SO YOU NEVER NEED TO LOOK IN THE "System" folder at all really.

I know there were people complaints about 9 but what amazes me, is that no one really complained at the time. Plus 9 only was out there for 4 years.

All I'm saying is that Apple spent 15 years perfecting their System and yes OS X is an evolution but why can't there still be the best of both worlds?

People complained plenty: OS 9 was just an upgrade from 8, which was just an upgrade from 7. There was no fundamental change anywhere in there. The problem is that the "both worlds" require incompatible features (i.e. the total control of OS 9, but the multi-user safe environment of OS X)

Plus, I've come to understand that it doesn't seem to be anything like a "stable" system in any operating system.

There's a HUGE difference in terms of stability between OS 9 and X. X can go weeks, months, or longer even, without a restart. In X, when an application crashes, it doesn't take the rest of your system with it (so when that shareware game crashes, you don't lose the work you've been doing in excel). OS 9, on the other hand, required a restart or two per day. (or, if you were really lucky, a week).

-----------------

In short, OS X cannot be made to be exactly like OS 9. Switching over is much easier, and much more rewarding, if you embrace the differences, rather than fighting them and getting frustrated when things don't work as they used to.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by PSST:
TETENAL,

So if I understand you correctly if I went and purchased a copy of OS X.3 whatever, that I wouldn't not feel at all uncomfortable, and could get around OS X like 9? Is it that simple?

I doubt many people have problems with Panther. If you are used to OS 9 or Windows it needs some time to get used to of course, but you have to give yourself that time. If you fight the system by trying to make it be exactly like what you used before that's a recipe for frustration.

My experience with OS X was so bad, that I could see why people didn't leave OS 9.

When that was Public Beta or 10.0/10.1 then I believe you. Times have changed.

Is there a program or something for os 9 or some add-on to enable protective multi-tasking, or something so that if a program crashed that you would have to restart the machine?

Are you trying to pull my leg?

[cpac]

Originally posted by PSST:
TETENAL,

So if I understand you correctly if I went and purchased a copy of OS X.3 whatever, that I wouldn't not feel at all uncomfortable, and could get around OS X like 9? Is it that simple? My experience with OS X was so bad, that I could see why people didn't leave OS 9.

This is precisely your problem - you want OS X to feel as "comfortable" as OS 9 did to you. You've been working in a version of OS 9 (8 & 7 were basically the same thing) for YEARS.

Of course, you wont feel as comfortable in a new environment. Things work differently, but change can be (and in the case of OS X *is*) a good thing.

Give it time. Try out OS X -you'll come to love it as we do.

Is there a program or something for os 9 or some add-on to enable protective multi-tasking, or something so that if a program crashed that you would have to restart the machine?

No. (assuming you meant to say "if a program crashed you would [NOT] have to restart the machine?")

[msuper69]

Originally posted by PSST:
Hey all.

I wanted to throw this idea out there, that I was thinking and wondering about:

Will Apple ever make an OS that functions like OS 9 but has the features of X? Can't it be done?

I am at a loss for words. Sorry, but this post just seems naive.

[jamil5454]

I tried OS 9 back in the late 90s for school. Back then I wasn't really into computers (or Macs for that matter) so I thought it was normal for my machine to crash every day I used it. After all, Windows 98 crashed a lot also. Then, I got into computers and installed Windows 2000 on my PC and really started to appreciate the stability of it. I had a few crashes every now and then but nothing annoying. Then, windows XP came out and so did the wave of spyware. After a couple times of reformatting my PC, Microsoft would not let me activate Windows XP anymore. Sure I could probably call Microsoft and get the Activation code via phone, but I was fed up with the whole idea of activating an operating system. This was in early 2003. At the time, I didn't know OS X was out and I didn't even pay attention to Macs. No one else I knew did either. Most people still thought Macs were for gay people due the fruity generation of Macs. So in early 2003 I decided to rid myself of Windows completely and installed Slackware on my PC. I used that for a year and a half and came to appreciate the UNIX way of things very, very much. IMHO Unix is the most powerful OS in the world. Late 2004 I got a project to record church worships and after some research I decided an iBook (with USB soundcard) was the way to go. I then learned that OS X was Unix with a fancy GUI (which I liked). I got my iBook last October and have been in love with OS X ever since. I find better ways of multitasking in OS X all the time and sometimes I even force myself to leave unused apps open to "test" the stability of OS X. After 4 months, OS X has crashed on me once, and that was due to out-dated M-Audio drivers used during a GarageBand session.

Summary:
Wait till OS X Tiger comes out and buy it. You may not like it at first but after a while you will love the OS X way of things.


Why oh why do I always end up typing so much?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by PSST:
So, if I understand the moderator correctly, if I like 9 well please leave.

That was not quite my intent, and I apologize for my unclear wording. However, the dream of a 9-like-X is dead, a technological impossibility. There is one and only one holdout of people left who refuse to accept this, and they have the gall to call themselves "the true Mac faithful" because they see Unix as inherently evil and they somehow got it into their heads that the Mac was only for pros, not 'the rest of us'.

Besides, I'm a member of this community and wanted to discuss this here.

What is so wrong with that?

I apologize for my overly harsh wording. I do hope you understand, however, that it can be tiring having to explain these things time and again.

[alphasubzero949]

I cringe every time I see a Mac running OS 9 or older. I don't know how I was able to put up with the constant crashing, extension conflicts, and overbloated apps for years.

[PurpleGiant]

Is this guy for real??

[Turnpike]

Originally posted by PurpleGiant:
Is this guy for real??

I don't know... he seemed to be, then he asked if there was a program you could install to make OS 9 crash... either it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that you could install pretty much ANYTHING on OS 9 and have it crash eventually, or he meant NOT crash... in which case... well, lets just say that if he thinks that is even remotely possible I'm surprised he was able to activate root (but not surprised it didn't work out)

[Big Mac]

Guys, the dude's a troll. Don't feed the troll. There's nothing to see here.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
I don't know how I was able to put up with (...) overbloated apps for years.

You mean like Photoshop 1, which fit on a 800k floppy (including some filters)? As opposed to, for example, Adobe Reader 7.0, which only uses a paltry 81.8 MB on my disk, and can display PDF files (whoop-di-whoop!) ?

[PSST]

Hello again,

Thanks for all the replies. NO I AM NOT A TROLL. Thank you BIG MAC.

NOR AM I FROM THAT THALO website.

First of all, I went over there for 10 seconds if that, and I think it is sick for someone to refer to others online as BROTHER...... On the surface, that site seems cultish annd freeky....

I resent the fact that all I wanted to do was educate myself in some way about OS X, and I myself found it disturbing as to why I can understand and get around in 9 but feel completely alien in X.

It bothers me.

To also answer a previous poster, T, I had used 10.0.3 or 10.1 and that was when the problem started, it came on my IMAC G3/700.

It wasn't dumb luck that the glitch happened, plus being told by an Apple specialist that I have to reformat the entire 60GB hard drive only hours after I just got my iMac did me IN.....

Look, like I said, I don't post much on these forums or in forums in general, but I resent the fact that when I try to ask a question, any kind of question, I'm a freak or wierdo.

I think that this entire 9/X conversion thing has to someday be addressed by Apple, you can't forsake your past for your future....

Thanks, and yes, I'm for REAL...

[alphasubzero949]

Good thing you cleared up the whole "brother" thing. It's just as bad as inserting "sir" in front of your name.

[simifilm]

I can't really think of a reason why anyone who ever used Panther a bit longer wanted to go back to 9. OSX is much more powerful in about every respect. Let me assure you: YOU DON'T WANT OS9 ANYMORE, you just don't know it yet.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by PSST:
I had used 10.0.3 or 10.1 and that was when the problem started, it came on my IMAC G3/700.

Well, that explains it. Try 10.3 (or as someone else suggested, get 10.4 when it comes out) and you'll be much happier than with 10.0.3 or 10.1.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by PSST:
Look, like I said, I don't post much on these forums or in forums in general, but I resent the fact that when I try to ask a question, any kind of question, I'm a freak or wierdo.

You asked a very vague question which seemed more like flamebait than anything else. When I asked you to clarify yourself (in an attempt to reduce the troll factor), you didn't really offer any examples of what OS 9 had that OS X doesn't. You just griped about some trouble you had with OS X that really sounded like it was your fault in the first place for mucking around with root (as well as some complaint that made no sense at all regarding the command line � not only is the shell very useful, but you don't need it to repair a disk anyway). All in all, it was pretty reminiscent of the Thalo folks.

Originally posted by PSST:
I think that this entire 9/X conversion thing has to someday be addressed by Apple, you can't forsake your past for your future....

Sure they can. They've forsaken lots of things: the floppy drive, the 680x0 processor, MFS and later HFS, several previous versions of the OS. I really don't see what the big deal is. I went from OS 9 to OS X and never looked back, and I'm more productive and capable now than I ever was with the old system.

There are only two things from OS 9 that I miss in Panther: the incredible help system and the responsiveness of the Finder (the latter of which is supposed to be cleared up in Tiger). When I go back and use OS 9, there are tons of things from Panther that I miss.

[PowerTower Fan]

Originally posted by PSST:
I think that this entire 9/X conversion thing has to someday be addressed by Apple, you can't forsake your past for your future....

You're about 3 years too late. Considering OS 9 is used so infrequently now, the transition for Apple is over. Jaguar, Panther, Tiger coming up, and every other future release will be about improving the experience of OS X, not about a 9/X conversion thing. You can either give yourself time to learn new technologies or just sit and let the rest of the world pass you by.

[tavilach]

Originally posted by PSST:
I resent the fact that all I wanted to do was educate myself in some way about OS X, and I myself found it disturbing as to why I can understand and get around in 9 but feel completely alien in X.

Claim: You should certainly feel alien in OS X.

Proof:

(A)

Suppose that people typically appreciate major improvements in any product.
Suppose, further, that Apple wants to make money, and that revenue would increase due to the previous supposition more than it would increase due to minor improvements.
Improvement implies change, as no change results in no improvement.
Change, by definition, implies that the result is dissimilar to what was changed.
OS 9 is what was changed, and the amount by which OS X is dissimilar must be large, so that this improvement should be considered major.

(B)

Suppose that you are comfortable in OS 9.
Feeling alien implies that you no longer feel that you are an inhabitant of a certain environment.
(A) shows that your new environment, OS X, is certainly very different from your old environment. Because you are not inhabitating your old environment, OS 9, but are instead inhabiting OS X, feeling alien must be true. []

So, you see, it would certainly be odd if you did not feel alien in OS X.

Sorry...I'm taking Linear Algebra, and we just started with proofs . It's so exciting!

[hudson1]

Maybe the point that's been missing in this thread is that the point is moot anyway. The viability of a computer platform is linked to the software that runs on that platform. For the most part, no one is developing software applications that run on System 9. The bottom line is that if you want to stay with System 9 then you also have to accept that you'll be frozen in time with regard to what you can do with your computer.

[legacyb4]

Be smart; don't run your account as admin and don't enable the root account either. If you don't want to be in Terminal, most of the stuff you need as administrator will present you with a nice authentication dialog box anyway.

Besides, why on earth are you moving stuff out of the root folder anyway? Customize your Home and Shared directories but leave the system-level stuff alone...

I set users up on both OS X and Windows the same; regular users as regular users with administrative account set up for installation, etc.

Originally posted by PSST:
Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

[chris v]

Originally posted by PSST:

It wasn't dumb luck that the glitch happened, plus being told by an Apple specialist that I have to reformat the entire 60GB hard drive only hours after I just got my iMac did me IN.....

Here's what gets me.

If, within hours of getting your iMac, you'd managed to enable the root user, then muck around in the system enough to disable the machine, why can't you just chalk that up to "whoops, learning experience" and admit that you didn't have a clue what you were doing?

Now that you know better, you won't log in as Root, and you'll be more careful about deleting stuff from the library forlder willy-nilly without first at least finding out what it does, right?

That right there, coupled with a willingness to adapt to change, (97.63% of it overwhelmingly positive) should make for a fruitful OS X experience.

Okay, so OS X doesn't have pop-up folders. Boo. That's about all the negatives I can think of today.

[saddino]

Originally posted by PSST:
Oh, and does anyone know the definitive number of OS 9 users and OS X users lately?

At MacWorld, Jobs mentioned 14M OS X users, so I suppose that leaves about 11-16M users of OS9 and earlier (most estimates of installed base are 25M-30M).

[Millennium]

Originally posted by PSST:
I think that this entire 9/X conversion thing has to someday be addressed by Apple, you can't forsake your past for your future...

In reality as well as in computers, all too often you must forsake your past for your future. Apple hit exactly such a situation, as Copland proved.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by chris v:
Okay, so OS X doesn't have pop-up folders. Boo. That's about all the negatives I can think of today.

http://www.dragthing.com/

[turtle777]

Originally posted by PSST:
Umm..... I thought these forums were open to free speech and opinions, I'm not trying to offend or be offended. I was trying to have a thoughtful discussion, and learn something and be educated about both 9 and X. Millenium, your comments surprise me. I hope that the Apple Macintosh community is not as splintered and fragmented. Besides overall, we are Apple users, and believe in a System and way of doing things different, and choices over Windows.

I'm sorry but I'm sadden to know that a moderator could send me away to some evanglists site for no reason.

Ok, this is going to hurt a little bit, but I want to be honest.

YOU SEEM LIKE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT !

You don't like OS X because you didn't take time to get to know it.
All the "advantages" that you perceive with OS 9 are really disadvantages (crutches), that you got so used to that you think they are essential.

Really, what you need is a reality check. OS X is not perfect, but all that you talk about is ignorance of OS X and having settled for OS 9's idiosyncracies.

[/rant]

-t

[wadesworld]

Originally posted by PSST:
[B]Specifically you can't move something out of a root folder or your library folder.... Things go crazy.

Could you move things out of the system folder or extension folder under OS 9 and have them still work?

What about if there are disk troubles?

You run a disk utility, just like you did with OS 9.

I don't want to have to know command line Unix just to fix something... Especially terminal...

In 99% of the cases, you don't have to. In the 1% of the cases you do, it's an advantage. Under OS 9 if there wasn't a GUI solution, you were hosed.

Plus, I understand loging in, is secure for X and 9, I do it now, but once, I had a root and admin account mix up between the two so badly, that I had to reformat a 60 GB imac and start over..... and I said goodbye to OS X...

Huh? What were you doing messing with root? Why don't you have a single admin account set to autologin?

I'm sorry but 9 and X are just different, and I know i'm not alone...

I think this is the root of the problem. You want OS 9 and will not be happy until you get OS 9.

I know there were people complaints about 9 but what amazes me, is that no one really complained at the time. Plus 9 only was out there for 4 years.

All I'm saying is that Apple spent 15 years perfecting their System and yes OS X is an evolution but why can't there still be the best of both worlds?

Um, because other than having a "snappy" monochrome, bitmapped interface, we've all largely learned that OS 9 sucked.

You said it yourself - you WANT OS X - you just don't want to learn new ways of doing things.

Wade

[kingskel]

Yeah, if I used 10.0.3 today, and that was my only experience with X, I'd probably be disappointed with X too (I was then!). However, Jaguar made the thing usuable speedwise, and it's now quite acceptable (though I still wish for more speed!). All your other concerns have been answered (twice) above. If you have a Mac that can support it, I suggest giving 10.3 a try. If you are then still disappointed and prefer OS9 (which is not likely), you will then have to accept that you are in the minority, like all those OS2 or Amiga users. That would suck, so please give OS X another try!

[wadesworld]

PSST,

Quit getting your panties in a wad because:

a) We don't think that OS X sucks and OS 9 should return
b) We think it silly that you're asking Apple to produce an OS 9 that has everything OS X has, or an application(!!!) that will give OS 9 protected memory and preemptive multitasking. It is silly - there's just no way around it.

If you want to have a discussion, make some rational points. What, specifically enhanced your work in OS 9 that is absent in OS X?

But keep in mind that OS 9 and its interface is dead and gone, period, end of story.

Wade

[chris v]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
http://www.dragthing.com/

Have it. Use it. Love it. I was just trying to come up with something negative about OS X, out of a sense of fairness.