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Daryl · Feb 21, 2005, 04:59 PM

Hi

I have started getting Kernel Panics, such as the one below.
They usually occurr after the computer has been used for a while and you go to launch a new application.

I have a 1.8DP G5 PowerMac with 1024Mg RAM Mac OS X 10.3.8.

Any ideas?

panic(cpu 0): vm_page_insert
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000835F8 0x00083ADC 0x0001EDA4 0x00071F28 0x00072A38 0x00059488 0x00091014 0x00093FCC
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2D54EC80)
PC=0x937B8768; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xB89C7000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x00000090; R1=0xBFFEE940; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)

Angus_D · Feb 21, 2005, 05:24 PM

Did you recently install some 3rd party RAM?

Daryl · Feb 21, 2005, 06:31 PM

No, I haven't recently installed any 3rd party RAM.
I have Two (2) pairs of Apple provided & installed RAM.
Have tested RAM with Apple Hardware Test & Rember (Memtest with a GUI) and all was fine.
Anyone have any other ideas?

Turnpike · Feb 21, 2005, 07:04 PM

Apple Hardware Test is not a good way to find bad RAM, unfortunately enough. It may catch some of it, but not all.

This sounds like bad RAM to me, unless there's more info (like it only crashes when you start to play a 3d game or something using the graphics card heavily or something)

Big Mac · Feb 21, 2005, 10:03 PM

vm_page_insert refers, of course, to a virtual memory function, so it may be your RAM or hard drive. On the other hand, kernel panics that look like hardware issues are often software problems instead. You may want to try holding down shift at startup to go into Safe Mode. See if that helps at all; if it does, I would then move to reinstall the OS.

alphasubzero949 · Feb 21, 2005, 10:12 PM

I would guess bad RAM. vm_page_insert involves your virtual memory.

Edit: Doh, already mentioned above.

Daryl · Feb 23, 2005, 02:17 AM

I run Apple Hardware Test on loop for about 4 hours today,
no bad RAM or kernel panics encountered during testing.
What other diagnostics tests are available?

Thinine · Feb 23, 2005, 02:43 AM

See if you can reproduce the panic. If you can, it's likely a software issue. If you can't, and they keep happening at random, then it may be a hardware issue. But if it doesn't happen again, then there probably isn't anything wrong.

Turnpike · Feb 23, 2005, 03:08 AM

as for if the panic is reproducable meaning it is a software issue, it really depends on what you are doing to reproduce it. it is very easy to reproduce hardware related kernel panics depending on the issue. If every time you eat a large chunk of RAM it causes a panic, you've probably found the issue.

but yeah, it could be the HD (or possibly the controller?) since it seems to happen when you swap... but that could also just be the RAM.

Apple has a special in-house hardware test CD that they use (Apple System Diagnostics). I don't know of any stronger/lower-level hardware test. And no, it won't catch everything. I had a stick of bad RAM (yes, I know it was the RAM... it crashed 2 G5s and a PC) that wasn't detected as bad by the hardware test or ASD.

It'd be nice if there were some magic program that you could run that would tell you what was wrong, and Apple surely has tried to make such a thing. Unfortunately, they haven't quite done it yet. At this point, only old-fashioned swapping will really be able to tell you for sure (although I'm sure you could take it to the genius bar and somebody there would pretend to tell you for sure... and they'll tell you it's bad RAM).

RAM certainly sounds like the most likely culprit, and it is one of the easiest to check (if you have modules to spare, considering some computers, eg g5 powermacs, require RAM be installed in pairs, then you can just take some out and see if the problem persists.. if it doesn't, you've found the problem, if it does, try the other half.) If you don't have modules to spare, you could possibly borrow some from a friend (or "borrow" some from work) for a day to check it out.

Hard Disk is about as easy to test, but you'd have to have a spare hard disk lying around, and fewer of us have that luxury. Borrowing one is less of a solution, since it'd have to be HFS and, moreover, have to have a valid boot partition.

Something like a controller would be VERY hard to test, aside from just testing the whole drive. Perhaps switching master/slave could help if you have that option (if you have two drives).

If it is a bad RAM slot (which could be the case) you are pretty much SOL... you can diagnose by trying your RAM in different slots, but you'll need to either just avoid the slot for the rest of your computer's life or you'll have to get it replaced. Getting it replaced is expensive (I had a G5 motherboard replaced, along with a CPU... I believe it cost around 800, but it was a while ago. It was still under warranty, so I didn't have to pay, but if it hadn't been...) so if you aren't under warranty and you know it is a bad slot and most definitely need that slot, you might want to just buy a new computer.

BUT! it is most likely not that scary. I'd say there's a good 85% chance that it's bad RAM. 7% it's disk, 7% it's software. that leaves a whopping 1% chance for it to be something scary, and even then there's a decent chance you can just ignore the issue, especially on your G5.

ListerMint · Feb 25, 2005, 01:39 AM

Here is a freeware program to test your memory. Click here.

Daryl · Feb 26, 2005, 05:24 PM

There is also a front-end GUI for MemTest, called Rember, that is a little more user friendly and gives you a few more options, it can be found at
http://www.kelleycomputing.net/

Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 26, 2005, 06:34 PM

Any evidence that can be fund from this KP will have to be deciphered from the exception codes. Find out the error codes from the core dump and that should give insight to the issue.

Things to think about:

Have you installed in "haxies" or third party helper apps?

Are you using any Classic apps or have classic running?

Did you install any new software? Any new "sketchy" AKA "downloaded" software?

Calli46 · Feb 27, 2005, 01:52 AM

Do you have more than one HD connected to your G5 ? Like 2 internals or a Firewire or USB external ? To test for virtual memory file corruption, you could tell OSX to put its VM files on another HD, then see if you still get KPs. To switch your VM files is very easy with SwapCop, a little app that does it all by itself (well, almost).

Good luck...

Turnpike · Feb 28, 2005, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Tyler McAdams:
"sketchy" AKA "downloaded"

because anything from the Internet MUST BE FEARED, and anything you buy at the store is good for your computer.

I hear the people at Ambrosia crying... or maybe it's the people at Symantec laughing... one or the other.

Big Mac · Feb 28, 2005, 06:17 AM

I am certain that Tyler did not mean to cast aspersions on files downloaded off the Internet. What he meant was that the person may have downloaded something sketchy. Such a broad, vague statement is not helpful to someone trying to troubleshoot something, but it's a stretch to infer from that statement that Tyler frowns upon downloads in general.

Tyre MacAdmin · Feb 28, 2005, 11:23 AM

It is true that I don't think downloading is a favorable practice... But in all honesty I have seen plenty of cases on the PC side where a friend has downloaded a "ware" and then his computer starts acting sketchy. You pay for what you get. The suggestion that this might have caused the KP is a very real one.