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Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame Speech
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Jawbone54
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:00 AM
 
I'm not sure how long these will be up...

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Is it just me, or did he mention his personal competitive spirit and how great it was about one billion times?

I was the biggest MJ fan growing up, snatching up the highlights videos the day they were available at Suncoast every single year, but he came off as a self-absorbed egomaniac during the speech. And did he really tell his kids how much they had to live up to because they were his children? "I'd hate to be in your shoes."

Thank the game of basketball for the lifestyle it offered you, relive the special moments and relationships, but don't give your freakin' kids 10 seconds in your speech while telling tons of players/coaches in the audience how competitive you were for 10 minutes. Tell your family that they are what is most important in your life.

I understand this single-focus drive is what made him the kind of player he was, but I can't say I'm much of an MJ fan anymore.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:28 AM
 
A snippet from Jon Greenberg's ESPN column that shows the difference between David Robinson and Michael Jordan:

I was at the gym during Robinson's speech, watching and listening on the elliptical. I'm not afraid to say I teared up. Robinson was often criticized for being too soft on the court, too cerebral. He was, in a lot of ways, the anti-Jordan, as a superstar. The Admiral spent the entirety of his speech thanking people. When he spoke of his family, he gushed over his three boys, calling them his best friends, encouraging them to reach their own goals.

When Jordan, who is divorced from his longtime wife Juanita, brought up his three children, he told them he felt sorry for them, because of the tall shadow they have to live with. His oldest son, Jeffrey, seated next to a very pretty girlfriend of his father's, recently quit the basketball team at Illinois to focus on his studies. Marcus Jordan is in his freshman year at Central Florida, where he too will play. Needless to say, they know they'll forever be second-class to their pop. How could anyone live up to his standards?
You would want a Michael Jordan on your team's roster, but you would want a David Robinson or John Stockton as your father.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:30 AM
 
When people tell you that you're a god for 20 years, you start to believe them.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
paul w
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Sep 14, 2009, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I understand this single-focus drive is what made him the kind of player he was, but I can't say I'm much of an MJ fan anymore.
I loved MJ too growing up, but I loved him even more when I found out about all the behind the scenes terrorizing he did. I no longer needed him to be nice and just embraced the fact that he was the best, most intense player to ever play the game.

He was the guy that needed to win above all else. That he hangs out with Charles Oakley speaks volumes.

I find that fascinating.
     
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Sep 14, 2009, 10:10 AM
 
Unfortunately what makes one a great competitor doesn't necessarily make one a great person.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 10:29 AM
 
Oh Jawbone, so naive.

See to take shots that entire championship's rest on, you have to have this thing confidence. Only when the stakes are that high, it has to be a lot of confidence. The kind that just feels like arrogance to schmoes like us.

Out of curiosity, did you see the interview with Michael Wilbon? I only caught a brief part of it, but he seemed humble enough in regards to his place among his NBA predecessors.


Originally Posted by paul w View Post
That he hangs out with Charles Oakley speaks volumes.
How so? (Far as I can tell they have the same hobbies: Gambling, drinking, smoking cigars, and women. And Oakley has the added benefit of having been MJs enforcer back in the old days, which oddly translates now).
     
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Sep 14, 2009, 11:42 AM
 
It seems to be a trait in certain 'greats' that they are complete twats in terms of family treatment. Einstein and Picasso also come to mind.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 12:35 PM
 
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh Jawbone, so naive.
Not naive. I just expect more out of people, even if they're at the top of their profession.

See to take shots that entire championship's rest on, you have to have this thing confidence. Only when the stakes are that high, it has to be a lot of confidence. The kind that just feels like arrogance to schmoes like us.

Out of curiosity, did you see the interview with Michael Wilbon? I only caught a brief part of it, but he seemed humble enough in regards to his place among his NBA predecessors.
Yeah, I caught the interview with Wilbon. The impression I got is that Mike a sad, pathetic person without basketball in his life. The only good thing I have to say about that interview is that Wilbon was excellent, as usual.

I used to feel that MJ walked that fine line between arrogance and confidence, but now he just seems like he wants us to all wallow in his legacy as penance for not collectively finding some way to reverse the aging process and allow him to play basketball forever as he cheats on his wife and ignores his kids in his spare time.

I think the fact that Robinson and Stockton's speeches consisted of almost nothing but thanking others caused them to contrast strongly with Jordan's, making him seem like even more of a jerk.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 01:28 PM
 
Also, the cartoon panes and bubble quotes were great

Thanks a lot for sharing that site and causing me to be even more distracted from work.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Not naive. I just expect more out of people, even if they're at the top of their profession.
..and I find that an incredibly naive expectation. People forget, athletes are human at their root. And eventually, they'll hit that root.


Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Yeah, I caught the interview with Wilbon. The impression I got is that Mike a sad, pathetic person without basketball in his life.
Tell me, how would you feel if you had to retire from the service of God at 40?
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
..and I find that an incredibly naive expectation. People forget, athletes are human at their root. And eventually, they'll hit that root.
I know what I should expect from people. I just can't bring myself to be quite that cynical.

I actually expect less from athletes than I do from average people, but athletes still manage to surprise me.

Tell me, how would you feel if you had to retire from the service of God at 40?
If I was worth $1,000,000,000?
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
If I was worth $1,000,000,000?
Now who's cynical? No, the money wasn't just money. The numbers weren't dollars, they were also the score. His financial deals were just another competition for him.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:24 PM
 
Seems like a miserable way to live.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Seems like a miserable way to live.
Eccentricities: They give us amazing people. As with many things, what is an asset can later become ones downfall.

So, uh, how about that giving up God at 40? Think you'd be sad and pathetic afterwards too?
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:34 PM
 
Ministry is completely different altogether. Once you decide that ministry is what you feel drawn to do in your life, you pretty much make a lifetime commitment. There's not really such a thing as retiring from ministry; you either quit or die a minister. Ministry isn't really about being driven by competition either; it's more about being driven by a societal need.

But if I worked a secular job exclusively and had the opportunity to retire in unbelievable wealth at the age of 40, you'd better believe I'd enjoy every bit of the next 40 years. I'd travel with my kids around the world, buy one beautiful vacation home in the mountains, one on the beach, and figure out things to do with my time that didn't require me ignoring family and friends 90-100 hours out of the week.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2009, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Ministry is completely different altogether. Once you decide that ministry is what you feel drawn to do in your life, you pretty much make a lifetime commitment. There's not really such a thing as retiring from ministry; you either quit or die a minister. Ministry isn't really about being driven by competition either; it's more about being driven by a societal need.
Yeah, you're either missing the point or dodging it.

The ministry is an integral part of your life. It defines you. You look forward to proving yourself in the eyes of God everyday. You are acknowledged as one of the very best. So how do you think you'd feel if by some occurrence (hell, let's go supernatural, considering) you couldn't do it anymore at age 40. Too old to worship. You're telling me your feelings might not mirror his?
     
paul w
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Sep 14, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How so? (Far as I can tell they have the same hobbies: Gambling, drinking, smoking cigars, and women. And Oakley has the added benefit of having been MJs enforcer back in the old days, which oddly translates now).
Dude, Oak is just such a bad dude. Oakley was kind of the backbone of the early-mid 90s Knicks brutal physical teams without whom wouldn't have been nearly as good (It wasn't Patrick Ewing or Charles Smith that players feared when they drove the lane).

Of all the players in the NBA that MJ played with, he's hangin' with Oak? it's anecdotal, but it's still telling.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, you're either missing the point or dodging it.

The ministry is an integral part of your life. It defines you. You look forward to proving yourself in the eyes of God everyday. You are acknowledged as one of the very best. So how do you think you'd feel if by some occurrence (hell, let's go supernatural, considering) you couldn't do it anymore at age 40. Too old to worship. You're telling me your feelings might not mirror his?
If I woke up at 40, lost the ability to speak, and could no longer speak/sing in front of people, then yes, I would feel like absolute crap. But I'd accept that my life had changed, and I'd find a way to adapt into something else. Sitting around in depression accomplishes nothing. I had enough of that years past.

But my focus isn't necessarily on who Jordan is today, it's on who he is PERIOD. If your entire life consists of nothing but competitive drive to the extent that it strains your relationship with the people who depend upon you the most, then you have a serious character issue and need to change something. We can all say that we appreciate who Jordan is because it's his nature that gave us 63 points in the Boston Garden, the Flu Game, and the Russell Butt Slap, but his kids probably think, "Man...my dad didn't say nearly as much about us as David Robinson and John Stockton did about their kids..."

If I recognized that my future kids were going to feel completely neglected as a result of me being in the ministry, then I believe it would be my responsibility to find something else. I should note that a ton of preacher's kids feel neglected by the parents' total dedication to making the family a doormat for people that couldn't care less about them. I'll do everything to fight that perception in my family.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 14, 2009, 05:36 PM
 
But dadgummit, this isn't about me. It's about MJ acting like an arrogant jerk.

If you think he was merely confident, and not at all arrogant...then you, my friend, are completely blinded by wonderful 90s basketball nostalgia.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Sep 14, 2009, 06:49 PM
 
Of course he was arrogant. He was always arrogant. Arrogance defined Michael Jordan.

With good, good reason.

Do I like it? No. Terrible speech? Of course. But that's MJ, man.

"You pick the side.... left or right...."

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Sep 14, 2009, 07:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I understand this single-focus drive is what made him the kind of player he was, but I can't say I'm much of an MJ fan anymore.
I just watched the speech and I saw somebody who was doing his best to thank the folks in his life and career. I think it has to be tough for him to live up to expectations all those years (including the bravado) and then turn it off, but it must also be tough to have to stand up and say that to everyone, no matter who you are. He's had his share of asshat moments, but I don't see this as one of them.
     
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Sep 15, 2009, 12:06 AM
 
Rickey's speech was so much better! Whodathunkit.®
     
Arty50
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Sep 15, 2009, 03:06 PM
 
Once again, let's revere a man who excelled at basketball but fails at life. Jordan was, is, and mostly likely will always be an arsehole.
"My friend, there are two kinds of people in this world:
those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."

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The Final Dakar
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Sep 15, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
But my focus isn't necessarily on who Jordan is today, it's on who he is PERIOD. If your entire life consists of nothing but competitive drive to the extent that it strains your relationship with the people who depend upon you the most, then you have a serious character issue and need to change something.
Here's the thing –– if he was any different in those respects, he never would have been the greatest basketball player ever. So take your pick. (I'd also add that no one is perfect.)

---

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
But dadgummit, this isn't about me. It's about MJ acting like an arrogant jerk.

If you think he was merely confident, and not at all arrogant...then you, my friend, are completely blinded by wonderful 90s basketball nostalgia.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
to take shots that entire championship's rest on, you have to have this thing confidence. Only when the stakes are that high, it has to be a lot of confidence. The kind that just feels like arrogance to schmoes like us.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 15, 2009, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by paul w View Post
Dude, Oak is just such a bad dude. Oakley was kind of the backbone of the early-mid 90s Knicks brutal physical teams without whom wouldn't have been nearly as good (It wasn't Patrick Ewing or Charles Smith that players feared when they drove the lane).

Of all the players in the NBA that MJ played with, he's hangin' with Oak? it's anecdotal, but it's still telling.
I think I see what you're saying. Oak is fearless man. I'm sure Jordan respects the **** out of that.

---

Somewhat apropos...

The John Shaft Award
This goes to Oakley. One of the networks needs to have a "Coolest guy on the planet" contest because Oakley would absolutely win. You know those "Road House" scenes in which Swayze just stands in the bar, surveying the scene with a thin smile on his face, barely moving a fingernail and meanwhile, 10 drunk guys are brawling a few feet away from him? That's what Oakley is like. You could hire some extras to play gang members at one of these parties, then have them fire blanks at each other 10 feet from Oakley and I'm not even sure he would flinch. The great thing about him: He served as MJ's enforcer in Chicago, and now they're both retired ... and from what I could tell, he's still Jordan's enforcer. Could there be a greater tribute in life to someone's kickassability than Michael Jordan himself deciding, "You know what? I need to make sure he's still on my side. I don't care if we're in our 40s."

Personally, I think Oak could do more. Why couldn't he become the next great action hero? He's got the looks, the size, the swagger ... at the very least, he could mumble through his lines and become the black Steven Seagal. For God's sake, everyone in the league is still afraid of him, personified by the one-sided Tyrone Hill/Oakley and Jeff McInnis/Oakley feuds, as well as the famous story of Oak slapping Barkley hard across the face during a '99 lockout players-only meeting, which became his signature "Here's why you don't mess with Oakley" moment.


Don't worry, Charles Oakley is hanging out in the background as MJ's enforcer. (Johnny Nunez/WireImage.com)
Anyway, on Thursday night, I asked one relatively famous current player who knows him, "What makes Oakley more intimidating than everyone else?"

His answer: "There's a lotta tough guys in the league, but Oak don't give a f---."

Well, then. Should there be reality TV cameras following Oak around at all times? Sure, I think so. But what do I know? By the way, we're not done with him yet, either.
     
paul w
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Sep 15, 2009, 04:27 PM
 
The story at the end of that piece is fantastic.

And when I returned, the cards emerged, just as I predicted -- they started playing a game called "Bid Wist," a form of spades that's popular among NBA players, with Oakley and MJ teaming up against two of their friends. We got to see MJ's legendary competitive streak in action. He was trash-talking nonstop, snickering sarcastically, cackling with every good card, badgering his opponents to the point that I actually thought one of them would start crying. This wasn't Corporate MJ, the one you and I know. This was Urban MJ, the one that comes out for the black Super Bowl. We never get to see this one.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 19, 2009, 09:42 PM
 
Rick Reilly posted a column on MJ's speech on Wednesday: Be Like Mike? No Thanks.

Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame talk was the Exxon Valdez of speeches. It was, by turns, rude, vindictive and flammable. And that was just when he was trying to be funny. It was tactless, egotistical and unbecoming. When it was done, nobody wanted to be like Mike.

And yet we couldn't stop watching. Because this was an inside look into the mindset of an icon who'd never let anybody inside before. From what I saw, I'd never want to go back. Here is a man who's won just about everything there is to win -- six NBA titles, five MVPs and two Olympics golds. And yet he sounded like a guy who's been screwed out of every trophy ever minted. He's the world's first sore winner.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2009, 11:39 AM
 
Rick Reilly blows. World's first sore winner? Puh-lease.

Unsurprisingly I side with Adande, particularly given that he repeats the point I made earlier.

Basketball Hall of Fame: Michael Jordan's speech was from the heart - ESPN

Jordan spoke from the heart. The thing is, his heart's as cold as liquid nitrogen.

If you enjoyed all of Jordan's acrobatic feats, his scoring outbursts and (most of all) his clutch performances, then you can't say you were disappointed in his attitude upon finally reaching basketball's Olympus. They're inseparable. You don't get Jordan the G.O.A.T. without the E-G-O. You don't get his triumphing again and again without his using every sleight -- real or perceived -- to motivate himself.

To repeat myself:
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Here's the thing –– if he was any different in those respects, he never would have been the greatest basketball player ever. So take your pick.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 21, 2009, 03:47 PM
 
Rick Reilly does way too many heartsy-fartsy stories, but his column on Jordan resonated with the feelings I had after watching the speech once, and then re-watching it with a few friends who had the same bad taste in their mouths afterwards.

I'll say it again: I UNDERSTAND that Jordan was the athlete that he was; I'm just wondering if that kind of success and adulation is personally worth being a soulless jerk to your family, friends, and co-workers. His basketball career was an unprecedented individual success. His post-basketball life looks like it's going to be hard to deal with.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2009, 03:54 PM
 
I finally watched it this weekend, and I find the entire thing overrated. I thought the comment on his sons was bizarre, and it was classless about what he called Van Gundy (he obviously hates him), but he also opened up mentioning how Scotty Pippen was at his side for every one of those championships and finishes valuing his mother as the best human being he knows.


Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I'm just wondering if that kind of success and adulation is personally worth being a soulless jerk to your family, friends, and co-workers. His basketball career was an unprecedented individual success. His post-basketball life looks like it's going to be hard to deal with.
Soulless jerk is a complete exaggeration. I suppose if you're very christian and polite this is some kind of big deal, but come on. Hell, I'm sure he said some things people wish they had the balls to say when it was their turn.

---

I did come away thinking that, as of this moment, Jordan plans a come back at 50, probably for the adulation and to nab himself a new set of records by forging through that virgin territory.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2009, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by paul w View Post
Dude, Oak is just such a bad dude.
He looked soooo different at the HOF induction. I'll always remember him as this frightening badass.

     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 21, 2009, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Soulless jerk is a complete exaggeration. I suppose if you're very christian and polite this is some kind of big deal, but come on. Hell, I'm sure he said some things people wish they had the balls to say when it was their turn.
Yes, it's an exaggeration. That was the point.

And since we're commenting on the literal usage of the words I used in my previous post, I can't comment on his spiritual life. I know nothing about it. What I can comment on is the public image that he's displayed, and it looks even worse considering the company he was in that night.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. And I'd like to do so by using an overused cliché.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2009, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Yes, it's an exaggeration.
Well that's fantastic for fostering dialogue.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
And since we're commenting on the literal usage of the words I used in my previous post, I can't comment on his spiritual life. I know nothing about it. What I can comment on is the public image that he's displayed, and it looks even worse considering the company he was in that night.
No, it really doesn't. Because no one in the class came close to accomplishing what he did.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
Much like MJs cold, calculating heart, no one saw this coming.
     
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Sep 21, 2009, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
No, it really doesn't. Because no one in the class came close to accomplishing what he did.
...individually. Of course not. Not remotely.

But out of the Celtics of the 60s and 80s, Lakers of the 80s, and Bulls of the 90s, which team had games that you'd actually enjoy watching?

Any of the Lakers/Celtics games from the 80s that come up on ESPN Classics were infinitely more enjoyable to watch. They were faster, more team-oriented, and seemed to reflect the good aspects of basketball better than Jordan's teams.

I'd say that Michael Jordan's career was good for the league at the time he was playing, but I also think that his career was bad for the game after he stopped playing.

Jordan's individual accolades were probably at least partially (but more likely mostly) responsible for the "clear out the lane and let me take control of the game" play that took the league by the throat and made it more boring to watch. I think the past several years have finally become more fun to watch, particularly Steve Nash's teams.
     
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Sep 21, 2009, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Much like MJs cold, calculating heart, no one saw this coming.
There's nothing wrong with trying to be amiable, even if it doesn't make for loads of excitement.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 21, 2009, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
...individually. Of course not. Not remotely.

But out of the Celtics of the 60s and 80s, Lakers of the 80s, and Bulls of the 90s, which team had games that you'd actually enjoy watching?

Any of the Lakers/Celtics games from the 80s that come up on ESPN Classics were infinitely more enjoyable to watch. They were faster, more team-oriented, and seemed to reflect the good aspects of basketball better than Jordan's teams.
I'll plead ignorance on this. I love Magic dearly, but I've barely seen him play.

(Side note: I hope you don't have any particularly strong love of Bird, because history has shown he was as much the cold-blooded competitor as MJ)

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I'd say that Michael Jordan's career was good for the league at the time he was playing, but I also think that his career was bad for the game after he stopped playing.

Jordan's individual accolades were probably at least partially (but more likely mostly) responsible for the "clear out the lane and let me take control of the game" play that took the league by the throat and made it more boring to watch. I think the past several years have finally become more fun to watch, particularly Steve Nash's teams.
If you want to talk about the damage his success has had on the league, that an entire matter entirely. But I don't believe it reflects on his career or his speech.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
There's nothing wrong with trying to be amiable, even if it doesn't make for loads of excitement.
Mmm, that came off harshly in a different way than intended. What I meant to say was, we both knew what we were getting into when we started this but enjoyed ourselves anyway.
     
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'll plead ignorance on this. I love Magic dearly, but I've barely seen him play.
My first basketball game I ever remember watching was a Lakers/Celtics game. I don't remember much from back then, but I've seen plenty of the old games on ESPN Classic or on tapes that a buddy of mine has.

(Side note: I hope you don't have any particularly strong love of Bird, because history has shown he was as much the cold-blooded competitor as MJ)
Noooooooooo, no...

*goes and hides his FIBA-style Molten ball hand-signed by Larry Bird*

I didn't buy it. A guy who collects sports memorabilia gave it to me about two years ago. I've actually tried to sell it on eBay already, but no bites.

If you want to talk about the damage his success has had on the league, that an entire matter entirely. But I don't believe it reflects on his career or his speech.
...

Then let's get into it. Did it do any damage?

Mmm, that came off harshly in a different way than intended. What I meant to say was, we both knew what we were getting into when we started this but enjoyed ourselves anyway.
Not taken as such.

But yeah, I knew where it was headed. It's not like any two hosts of Crossfire ever ended a night and said, "You know what? I've thought about what you said, and you're probably right! You win."
     
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Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Then let's get into it. Did it do any damage?
I don't really feel like getting into this.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Noooooooooo, no...
So... feel like getting into this?
     
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I don't really feel like getting into this.
Too fearful to get into something that might mark our first agreement on these forums?

So... feel like getting into this?
I'll summarize:

I loved Bird as a kid, then lost a ton of respect for him when I found out about his outright rejection of his daughter.

Bird's competitive spirit is obviously well-documented, but seems to be almost comical because it was coming from a goofy, awkward, mustached guy with a permullet. He talked ridiculous amounts of trash, almost always backed it up, and was probably every bit the jerk that Mike was. No doubt about it.
     
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Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Too fearful to get into something that might mark our first agreement on these forums?
I'm pretty sick of talking about MJ at this point.



Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I'll summarize:

I loved Bird as a kid, then lost a ton of respect for him when I found out about his outright rejection of his daughter.

Bird's competitive spirit is obviously well-documented, but seems to be almost comical because it was coming from a goofy, awkward, mustached guy with a permullet. He talked ridiculous amounts of trash, almost always backed it up, and was probably every bit the jerk that Mike was. No doubt about it.
I was just poking fun (I really didn't want to look up what little I remember). That and you obviously know way more about him than I do.
     
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Sep 22, 2009, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'll plead ignorance on this. I love Magic dearly, but I've barely seen him play.
Magic is the Man. He's intensely competive also. He coached the Lakers on an interim basis and actually did really well. They offered him the job permanently, but he turned it down because he HATED losing and had trouble dealing with it as a coach. It's similar to how Jerry West used to watch Laker games. He'd stand in one of the tunnels and duck out when it got to be too much for him to watch.

Anyway, Magic has also given back immensely to the greater Los Angeles community. He started a real estate development company and built really nice shopping centers, theaters, etc. in lower income areas that no other developer would touch. I don't know if he still runs his basketball camps, but people raved about them for years. Best of all, they didn't cost kids thousands to attend.

Everyone who played with and against him will tell you the guy was insanely competitive on the court, much like Jordan; but off the court the guy is practically a saint.
"My friend, there are two kinds of people in this world:
those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."

-Clint in "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"
     
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Sep 22, 2009, 02:55 PM
 
Also, don't forget Isiah Thomas. Now there's a guy I went from absolutely loving as a player to despising afterwards.

I'm just waiting for John Stockton to be caught running a meth lab in downtown Salt Lake at this point.
     
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Magic Johnson is in my book.

Like you said, a fantastic mix of competitive desire and decency.
     
The Final Dakar
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Except for the whole "I slept with a prostitute" thing.
     
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Originally Posted by paul w View Post
Also, don't forget Isiah Thomas. Now there's a guy I went from absolutely loving as a player to despising afterwards.
I'll never forget the ESPN Classic coverage of one of the '88 or '89 games where afterwards an ESPN commentator looks at Isaiah, who is now crying profusely. The commentator looked puzzled and asked, "What is it?"

Isaiah mumbled something about how he remembers how good it felt to be so great in clutch situations...really weird.
     
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Except for the whole "I slept with a prostitute" thing.
Yes...nasty as well.

But he admitted his mistake, apologized (seemed sincere too), and then went on a crusade against HIV/AIDS.
     
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Originally Posted by paul w View Post
Also, don't forget Isiah Thomas. Now there's a guy I went from absolutely loving as a player to despising afterwards.
The Bad Boys walking off without shaking hands wasn't enough for you? Talk about sore losers.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I'll never forget the ESPN Classic coverage of one of the '88 or '89 games where afterwards an ESPN commentator looks at Isaiah, who is now crying profusely. The commentator looked puzzled and asked, "What is it?"

Isaiah mumbled something about how he remembers how good it felt to be so great in clutch situations...really weird.
I remember this. Yes, it was weird.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Yes...nasty as well.

But he admitted his mistake, apologized (seemed sincere too), and then went on a crusade against HIV/AIDS.
And hamburgers.
     
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paul w
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Sep 22, 2009, 04:07 PM
 
^ Ooh, looks like he could use some chapstick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8mRivgkbc

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The Bad Boys walking off without shaking hands wasn't enough for you? Talk about sore losers.
No, but his game was electric, and I was referring to how he kind of ruined his name, and the memories attached. I thought that was the undelying point of this discussion.

And we knew Isiah was intense. He broke his hand punching Bill Laimbeer in practice!
     
 
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