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Dr.Michael · Mar 20, 2006, 01:19 PM

I have a question concerning music making with a mac.

My gfs daughter (15) has an e-piano that she has used for quiet a while. Her music teacher suggests now that she gets a real piano to improve her abilities.

I myself don't understand a word of what the teacher is saying. I think she means the sound and the feeling of the e-piano is limited.

So here is my question: Is there a software that allows to use the mac to generate the sound so that the girl can use the keyboard of the piano but gets a more natural piano like sound out of it? Is it possible to come closer to a real piano with such a solution than with another e-piano? Or can such a kind of setup even be as good as a real piano?

We could get her a real piano. Although her room is not incredible large it might work. But I am sure this will cause trouble with the neighbors. Everything electric can be used with headphones.

hmurchison2001 · Mar 20, 2006, 01:58 PM

Playing a Piano develops a better "feel" because the keys are fully weighted and players learn to play softly for fortissimo. Classical music, in particular, is far more dynamic and you'll want your daughter to develop the touch and strong fingers.

You can probably prepare her a bit better by finding a keyboard controller that is weighted like a real piano.

I'm personally looking at

http://www.zzounds.com/item--CMEUF8 I've read good things about this controller. I'm a sax player but looking to get into playing the Piano because chicks dig it....j/k

Like anything else there are cheaper options but I'm looking for as close to a real piano feel as I can get.

CharlesS · Mar 20, 2006, 02:08 PM

Stupid piano salesmen often try to sell you on digital pianos, trying to make you believe that they are just as good as a real piano. This is BS. Due to the incredibly short size of the key stick, they can never feel the same as a real piano, no matter whether the keys are weighted or not. The sound is not going to be as good either, but what her piano teacher is talking about is the touch. If the girl plays only on an electric piano, she may have trouble playing on an actual piano when she plays a recital or something, because the feel is much different between the two.

Goldfinger · Mar 20, 2006, 02:19 PM

As said, get a real Piano. I, for one, can't play on an electronic piano. They're awefull to play on.

The teacher is right. And tell the neighbours to suck it up. I don't know how the laws over there are but normally they can't do a thing about it. It's not that a piano makes that much noise. If you get a nice looking one you can even use it as furniture (depending on your type of decoration of course).

Dr.Michael · Mar 21, 2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Due to the incredibly short size of the key stick, they can never feel the same as a real piano, no matter whether the keys are weighted or not.
...
If the girl plays only on an electric piano, she may have trouble playing on an actual piano when she plays a recital or something, because the feel is much different between the two.

That sounds very reasonable. Actually we have a real piano. But it is at her grandmothers house in Rome (which is in italy >700 miles from here). Looks like we have to get it somehow.

Well the law: you can play during the day - no legal problem. But of course the neighbors will hate us

(maybe they do anyway).

CharlesS · Mar 21, 2006, 02:41 PM

^ Why is it that kids having drunkenly screamingly loud parties is acceptable, but practicing Chopin on a piano is not for some people?

Anyway, who cares. If the neighbors are going to be jerks, that's their problem.

brahms117 · Mar 21, 2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Stupid piano salesmen often try to sell you on digital pianos, trying to make you believe that they are just as good as a real piano. This is BS. Due to the incredibly short size of the key stick, they can never feel the same as a real piano, no matter whether the keys are weighted or not.

In my opinion, Yamaha has broken down this barrier. I think the action on their digital pianos (P-Series and Clavinovas) is as authentic as any acoustic piano, and even more consistent than most. For the other brands (Korg, Kawai, Kurzweill, Roland, Casio, etc.) I agree, most competent pianists will feel that something's missing.

CharlesS · Mar 21, 2006, 03:28 PM

^ I've played on Clavinovas plenty of times, and I'm sorry, it's definitely not the same as a real piano.

analogika · Mar 21, 2006, 05:12 PM

I hate Clavinova keyboards.

They're very tiring.

analogika · Mar 21, 2006, 05:19 PM

I hate Clavinova keyboards.

They're very tiring.

rm199 · Mar 21, 2006, 06:38 PM

My grand might feel better than the 'e-piano' keyboard, but Synthogy Ivory sounds a LOT better than the grand so I play that more often. The keyboard in question is a fatar, Ivory plays off a powerbook sitting on top.

fisherKing · Mar 21, 2006, 06:44 PM

what's the ultimate goal here?
if she's aiming to be a concert pianist, well, a real piano is a must.

if it's to make the teacher happy, it's not necessary.
a decent digital piano with weighted keys should be fine; some of them sound amazing as well.

go to a music store and try some digital pianos.

what will work best for you all around?

CharlesS · Mar 21, 2006, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by rm199

My grand might feel better than the 'e-piano' keyboard, but Synthogy Ivory sounds a LOT better than the grand so I play that more often. The keyboard in question is a fatar, Ivory plays off a powerbook sitting on top.

That must be a pretty cheap grand...

Dr.Michael · Mar 21, 2006, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

what's the ultimate goal here?
if she's aiming to be a concert pianist, well, a real piano is a must.

who knows that with 15?
She just likes to play and her teacher recommends a piano. I am sure the teacher has "concert pianist" in mind, not rock music (...and I don't understand why this should not be an equally valid option).

go to a music store and try some digital pianos.

We did that. With an independed teacher whom I know. They found the right e-piano, but also this second teacher believes only in real pianos.

fisherKing · Mar 21, 2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

who knows that with 15?
She just likes to play and her teacher recommends a piano. I am sure the teacher has "concert pianist" in mind, not rock music (...and I don't understand why this should not be an equally valid option).

We did that. With an independed teacher whom I know. They found the right e-piano, but also this second teacher believes only in real pianos.

you could stay with the e-piano for now, and IF your daughter starts to get seriously interested in the idea of becoming a classical pianist...buy her a steinway grand. but until then...

(you could also find a less-fussy teacher...)

brahms117 · Mar 22, 2006, 06:33 AM

I can understand how some might 'hate' digital pianos like the Clavinova. It's harder to do trills and tremolos on my p250 than on my Baldwin upright. It is a little more tiring. And glissandos are almost painful. And the digitals definitely don't sound like a real piano, given that they have speakers instead of strings.

But I still disagree that they don't 'feel' like a real piano, because real pianos vary so much. Some are stiffer, some are lighter, some are springier, and somewhere out there a real piano feels about the same as the Clavinova, in terms of weight and responsiveness.

From a purely motor / physical standpoint, the Yamaha P-Series and Clavinova digitals will give a sufficient finger workout to develop real world piano technique. And the headphone-assisted late night practices are a huge advantage.

I am a piano teacher, and I used to be anti-digital, even after trying some of the earlier Clavinovas. But recent developments have changed my mind. YMMV.

stew · Mar 24, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by rm199

My grand might feel better than the 'e-piano' keyboard, but Synthogy Ivory sounds a LOT better than the grand so I play that more often. The keyboard in question is a fatar, Ivory plays off a powerbook sitting on top.

Fatar keyboards are excellent, I have one and I love it. The key action is somewhere between my Schimmel upright and an average grand - you can feel that it's gravity and hammers and not a spring pulling on the other end. To get the true sound, Native Instruments and Steinberg offer VST instruments that are supposedly pretty good. This is probably as close as you can get to a real piano.

That said, I still prefer a real piano. The overall experience is just so much better - no wires, no boot times, no chopped notes.

rm199 · Mar 25, 2006, 06:20 AM

When I was growing up, piano practice could only occur when parent was sufficiently in the mood. Totally understandable as scales are boring enough for the piano student to play to let alone for someone else to listen to hour upon hour. A today's technology e-piano would have been fabulous!

These days I find myself playing at midnight or any other time for that matter. So although the grand looks very nice (Bech 167) I do prefer to use the e-piano where I can modulate the volume without 'treading on eggshells' waiting for angry neighbours to be at the door.

analogika · Mar 26, 2006, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by stew

Fatar keyboards are excellent, I have one and I love it. The key action is somewhere between my Schimmel upright and an average grand - you can feel that it's gravity and hammers and not a spring pulling on the other end.

This is exactly what I mean about Clavinova keyboards being "tiring".

On a real piano (and that includes Rhodes pianos), there is an initial push needed, but once the hammer is pushed beyond a certain point, it falls back, and holding the key is much less of an effort than on a spring-loaded keyboard like the Clavinovas.

May seem silly, but if you're learning to play or play for any length of time, it makes a huge difference.

I actually prefer non-weighted keyboards to spring-drawn ones for that reason, even though they're more synth keyboards than pianos.

Though of course, the Hammond console organ waterfall keyboards are Queen.

DigitalEl · Mar 26, 2006, 01:47 PM

And tell the neighbours to suck it up.

Or be reasonable and maybe actually talk to your neighbors and come to a gentlemanly agreement that works for them noise-wise and for your daughter, so she can get her practicing/playing in. So much stupidity could be avoided if people actually talked to one another.

Your kid's ball is in my yard... Call the cops!
Your stereo's too loud... Bang on the wall like a mental patient to "shut them up!"

Sometimes just talking works, too.

analogika · Mar 27, 2006, 09:25 AM

^^^ what he said.

I've usually ring the immediate neighbors' doorbells and simply inform them that I've just moved in and will be playing the piano regularly, and are there any times when it be absolutely unbearable? and please just knock on my door and let me know when it's really bothering you and I should postpone practising a bit. Never had any problems - on the contrary.

Of course, now that I live in the red-light district of town, nobody seems to care when the piano is hammered at 1:30 a.m...