[ebuddy]

After troubleshooting a host of problems with my dual 2.66GHz Mac Pro including the infamous "wake from sleep" problem that has been grieving me since the failed logic board of my dual 2.0 GHz G5; I take my Mac Pro to Apple and the problem? Failed logic board. I unboxed this one just 1.5 years ago. While disappointed at the problem, Apple did not charge me to diagnose the problem and their quote on the logic board replacement ($661) is about as competitive a rate for replacement I could find.

Someone will no doubt tell me that I should have purchased Applecare and while this is of course a valuable lesson, the take-away from anyone not beholden to software running exclusively on Macs would be not to buy another Apple computer.

Still... Are the workstation class machines from Apple just prone to higher rates of failure? I'm not finding much information online which leads me to believe that the Mac Pros were not nearly as problematic, but to have the exact same problem with two "flagship" Apple products leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth. Anyone else here with Mac Pro and similar problem? For those of you with machine from 2006 (like mine) and failed logic board, is the replacement board still functional or did it fail as well?

[Eriamjh]

While AppleCare gives you that 3-year window of protection, if you bought it ever time, you'd have spent enough money in a few years to buy a new machine.

Did you use a credit card that offers double the warranty? Many do.

[Big Mac]

Sorry about that, but I think it's the luck of the draw, ebuddy.

[imitchellg5]

Everything that I've heard suggest that the Mac Pro is more reliable than G5s (at least liquid-cooled G5s). Like Big Mac said, it's kind of the luck of the draw I guess.

[Big Mac]

Yup, I say luck of the draw because the G5 and the Mac Pro have little to do with one another technically, aside from sharing a case design. Plus, the Mac Pro does seem to be pretty reliable (aside from early revision GPU issues), so I don't think much can be extrapolated from those two experiences of yours, ebuddy.

[mduell]

Doesn't the credit card you bought it on double the manufacturers warranty?

[Big Mac]

Depending on the credit card. More and more of them don't do it anymore.

[Veltliner]

Apple should have long increased the warranty to three years.

After all, these are premium priced computers.

Windows users get three years, and Apple should offer the same to its customers.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

While AppleCare gives you that 3-year window of protection, if you bought it ever time, you'd have spent enough money in a few years to buy a new machine.

Did you use a credit card that offers double the warranty? Many do.

In this case I did not use a card unfortunately.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Sorry about that, but I think it's the luck of the draw, ebuddy.

Perhaps so unfortunately, I've had a longer history of trouble. My rev-A tangerine iMac relented to a failed heat sink within 4 years (outside Applecare on that one), a tibook with cracked hinge at the case at 2.5 years and failed logic board about 8 months later, G5 failed HD at 2 years - then logic board at less than 4 years, and Mac Pro with failed logic board at 1.5 years. I bought Applecare for my wife's powerbook and with this we were able to address the failed keyboard back-lighting, but thankfully this machine is running strong as I type on it in anticipation of the return of my Mac Pro. I'm also encouraged by the lack of complaints online regarding the Mac Pro and am cautiously optimistic that this is a fluke.

Having said that, the iMac was a matter of consumers like myself handling R & D for them as they changed the design with the slot-loading iMacs to accommodate better heat dissipation. (from convection to fan-cooled) We led to the redesigned hinge assembly on their portables and better cooling for their workstation class machines. These were not all "luck of the draw" as they had become well documented design-flaws that led to changes in subsequent models. At their price-point, I would expect more from Apple hardware. It is my perception that the old adage "you get what you pay for" does not necessarily apply to Apple hardware, but means simply, "you get a much better OS and tighter control on 3rd-party wares".

To close again with the positive- Apple did not have to waive the fee for diagnostic, but they did and their cost of replace + tax is as good as you'll find anywhere short of trying to do it yourself. While I'm not happy, I'm also not livid.

[ebuddy]

UPDATE:
Just got a call from the Apple Store today and while they've just replaced the logic board, diagnostics now show a problem with one of the processors. Apparently everything is falling apart on this POS. They've got a phone call in to an engineer (at this point I'm hoping someone involved in the design of the $700 Dell I've been beating up at work for 3 years now) and they'll call me back tomorrow with the recommendations going forward.

So... what's the going rate on a Mac Pro with newly replaced logic board and failing processor? I've had VW Vanagons with lower repair costs.

[angelmb]

Failing processors… my Mac Pro (first generation) had that issue, one of the CPUs died. No idea about the repair costs as AppleCare covered it.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Failing processors… my Mac Pro (first generation) had that issue, one of the CPUs died. No idea about the repair costs as AppleCare covered it.

What became of that machine? i.e. are you still using it?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Apple should have long increased the warranty to three years.

After all, these are premium priced computers.

Windows users get three years, and Apple should offer the same to its customers.

Really? My grandparents' Dell has 90 day warranty...

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Really? My grandparents' Dell has 90 day warranty...

From what I've found just now digging around online, the standard seems to be at least 1 year mail-in, in some cases on-site repairs, and the warranties seem to improve contingent upon the class of machine.

[besson3c]

I feel for you ebuddy. It must be incredibly frustrating going through this with a Mac Pro when you consider how incredibly overpriced they are to begin with (as many have lamented)... It's too bad Apple offers such relatively poor choices in terms of Desktop computers. You either get a use and dispose sort of computer or an overpriced tower.

[macaddict0001]

A mail in warranty sounds about as good as a mail in rebate.

[mfbernstein]

$660? Ouch.

There's something to be said for going the hackintosh route, I guess...

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

What became of that machine? i.e. are you still using it?

Yes, it is my main computer.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by macaddict0001 

A mail in warranty sounds about as good as a mail in rebate.

This means you send the machine in to them as opposed to them coming to you or you bringing it to a local repair shop or dealer.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I feel for you ebuddy. It must be incredibly frustrating going through this with a Mac Pro when you consider how incredibly overpriced they are to begin with (as many have lamented)... It's too bad Apple offers such relatively poor choices in terms of Desktop computers. You either get a use and dispose sort of computer or an overpriced tower.

Thanks besson. Yeah, I'm pretty much beside myself at this point. I usually try to be somewhat fair in this kind of thing because an electronic is an electronic- they fail. I get the feeling that too many say too little because they've paid too much. At this rate I feel foolish for not having purchased AppleCare and even more foolish for having purchased another shoddy Mac.

I get a phone call today to tell me what the recommendation is on one of the failed processors as I'm in now for $661 with a new logic board and a machine that still won't work. If it's another $500-$600 for the processor I'm not exactly sure what I'll do. I'll be honest with you, at this point I'm seriously considering a switch and as the remainder of Macs in this house fail, they'll simply be replaced by much less expensive, but reliable computers from another manufacturer. The only reason I'm hesitant now is expensive software that will not run in a Windows environment, but I'm the only one in the house with this predicament.

I've been buying a new Mac for a member of this family every two years since 1998 including two workstation class machines and I'm not feeling the love here at all. Needless to say, I'm underwhelmed by their "form over function, charge 'em an arm and a leg for a warranty you know they'll have to use" business model.

Sour grapes over rotten apples? Hell yeah.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by mfbernstein 

$660? Ouch.

There's something to be said for going the hackintosh route, I guess...

I have a hunch after today's phone call, it'll be closer to $1200. You're probably thinking; "geez man you could buy two new computers for that" and... of course I have no way of replying other than to say I won't even be able to recover the cost of the logic board by trying to sell a Mac Pro with a bad processor.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Yes, it is my main computer.

I'm glad to hear this worked out for you. I'm at least somewhat encouraged. Apple tells me the logic board has a 90-day warranty and I've not yet heard back on the failed processor. If they can't do better than 90-days on the processor, I may decline, sell the Mac Pro for whatever I can get, and move on.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Apple should have long increased the warranty to three years.

After all, these are premium priced computers.

Windows users get three years, and Apple should offer the same to its customers.

It blows my mind that Apple refuses to offer a 3 year warranty on their pro-class machines.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Really? My grandparents' Dell has 90 day warranty...

Did your grandparents Dell cost over $2500? Dell's Precision Workstations, which start at $1100, come with a 3-year warranty.
Dell Precision Workstation Computers | Dell ca

[macaddict0001]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

This means you send the machine in to them as opposed to them coming to you or you bringing it to a local repair shop or dealer.

In other words, you have to pay shipping, and it could get lost or damaged.

[Snow-i]

ebuddy,

call Apple, and let them know. This machine is 1.5 years old and should not be failing like this. Explain your situation to them and let them know you'll be leaving -and taking the family with you- for good if your $ machine can't even make it to two years. See what they'll do for you.

Having worked for Apple and as a contractor for some time up until recently, I can tell you that more often than not you'll find that even the low level managers there will make this right for you. Be persistent and firm, which I'm sure you'll have no trouble doing.

Let them know that you've already invested 660 bucks into this and won't put a penny more based on their already shoddy diagnostic abilities. They should wise up pretty quick and - given that its possible they are to blame for the processor fail OR that they misdiagnosed it in the first place, complete the repair at no additional cost. I would expect nothing less from them - well, that and an apology.

Apple is one of the more reasonable companies out there when it comes to customer service. Be persistent and firm, and talk to more than one manager if you can. PM me if you want any further advice.

[mfbernstein]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I have a hunch after today's phone call, it'll be closer to $1200. You're probably thinking; "geez man you could buy two new computers for that" and... of course I have no way of replying other than to say I won't even be able to recover the cost of the logic board by trying to sell a Mac Pro with a bad processor.

That really sucks. I don't know what to say, other than to be persistent, and if they continue not to be helpful, to try and escalate the issue to the higher-ups at the repair center who might have some discretion in the matter.

My hackintosh comment was intended primarily in jest, but I realize this is no laughing matter :-(

[Locutus27]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

After troubleshooting a host of problems with my dual 2.66GHz Mac Pro including the infamous "wake from sleep" problem that has been grieving me since the failed logic board of my dual 2.0 GHz G5; I take my Mac Pro to Apple and the problem? Failed logic board. I unboxed this one just 1.5 years ago. While disappointed at the problem, Apple did not charge me to diagnose the problem and their quote on the logic board replacement ($661) is about as competitive a rate for replacement I could find.

Someone will no doubt tell me that I should have purchased Applecare and while this is of course a valuable lesson, the take-away from anyone not beholden to software running exclusively on Macs would be not to buy another Apple computer.

Still... Are the workstation class machines from Apple just prone to higher rates of failure? I'm not finding much information online which leads me to believe that the Mac Pros were not nearly as problematic, but to have the exact same problem with two "flagship" Apple products leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth. Anyone else here with Mac Pro and similar problem? For those of you with machine from 2006 (like mine) and failed logic board, is the replacement board still functional or did it fail as well?

Hello Ebuddy,

I can certainly understand all your well written points and I clearly understand we expect the best reliability as
Apple customers of Macintosh computers. I have been fortunate and very lucky to be using Macintosh computers from the Mac 128k,Performa 637CD, Power Mac 7500/120, Blue White G3 400 DVD, PowerBook G3 300 DVD, Power Mac DP 450, Power Mac G4 DP 1Ghz,Power Mac G5 DP 2.0Ghz (main machine), iMac G5 (died power event) MacBook 2.16Ghz, MacBook Pro 15 2008 (main portable). I bought applecare on my DP G4 DP 1Ghz (warranty motherboard). Apple has always pushed design limits and this is why i generally buy Apple Care. But i have found
the real killer of my machines is usually power events and osx really pushes the hardware every time. The power of unix is really great but kills the hardware a little faster i think. I really think if i buy any computer buy a very good
automatic voltage regulator, uninterruptable power supply will allow your computers to last longer and survive power events that seem to shorten the life of some components. I don't know if you own any or use them? Apple has certainly pushed thermal tolerance on many of the computers made over the years and yes some have defects but the failure rates have been generally low of most machines except really wear and tear things like LCD screen hinges, CRT's, batteries, power adapters, some cpu and gpu failures really all these things happen in all brands and white box machines. I guess i love all that apple has to offer most of the time more than all the other brands i own or have built...imho

[Big Mac]

OS X has nothing to do with the longevity of hardware or lack thereof, unless you're claiming something like improper fan control firmware.

[Arty50]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

ebuddy,

call Apple, and let them know. This machine is 1.5 years old and should not be failing like this. Explain your situation to them and let them know you'll be leaving -and taking the family with you- for good if your $ machine can't even make it to two years. See what they'll do for you.

Having worked for Apple and as a contractor for some time up until recently, I can tell you that more often than not you'll find that even the low level managers there will make this right for you. Be persistent and firm, which I'm sure you'll have no trouble doing.

Let them know that you've already invested 660 bucks into this and won't put a penny more based on their already shoddy diagnostic abilities. They should wise up pretty quick and - given that its possible they are to blame for the processor fail OR that they misdiagnosed it in the first place, complete the repair at no additional cost. I would expect nothing less from them - well, that and an apology.

Apple is one of the more reasonable companies out there when it comes to customer service. Be persistent and firm, and talk to more than one manager if you can. PM me if you want any further advice.

^ This.

Also, hopefully you're dealing with the main support center and not going through one of the stores. It seems like the stores tend to charge for stuff that the main support center doesn't.

Take my friends old PMG5 for example. The machine was years out of warranty, and the cooling system leaked and fried the whole machine. The local store wanted some ungodly amount to fix it. Some sleuthing online discovered that the main support center was replacing these machines for free with new Mac Pros. He called up the main line, told them the problem, shipped them his old comp, and they sent him a new MP.

I'd give them another call and nicely express your displeasure with the fact that such an expensive and relatively new machine has essentially shat the bed. And definitely tell them you'll be giving up on Macs because of this. It can't hurt.

I'm bummed about your experience. In 20 years of Mac use, I've only lost one hard drive and a cd-rom drive. It's sucks that you haven't had the same fortune.

[ebuddy]

UPDATE:

WHEW!!! The Apple technician got in contact with an Apple engineer who advised they tear the machine back down and test each processor individually. If satisfying a bunch of diagnostics, the replacement logic board was simply DOA. Which as it turns out was the case. While this didn't instill 100% confidence at first, these things do happen and after all, this means my repair cost did not exceed the original estimate. I daintily took the machine home, hooked everything up, plugged it in (which oddly it booted right up- I never pressed the power button.) and voila! You might know I could swear this thing's running a little zippier.

I think I might have even gotten a small boost in my own performance, know what I'm sayin'?

I started thanking everyone by name for their contribution and encouragement (special thanks to Snow-i for a particularly helpful PM) then decided to just thank everybody. I'm happy and I have nothing, but love for you all!

[Mac Write]

That's good that it is fixed and working well.

[reader50]

Having the computer start up when plugged in is odd. Check System Preferences -> Energy Saver -> Options (tab) -> "Restart automatically after a power failure".

Is the box checked? If so, that would explain it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

the iMac was a matter of consumers like myself handling R & D for them as they changed the design with the slot-loading iMacs to accommodate better heat dissipation. (from convection to fan-cooled)

The opposite is the case: they went from conventional fan-cooled design of Rev. A-C to a fanless, convection-cooled design in the Rev. D.

My Rev. D iMac is now 10 years and four months old, btw, and still runs - though the Firewire port blew years ago.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Having the computer start up when plugged in is odd. Check System Preferences -> Energy Saver -> Options (tab) -> "Restart automatically after a power failure".

Is the box checked? If so, that would explain it.

That box was not checked.

[ebuddy]

In fact, this morning when I shutdown, it booted right back up. I left it there a while while I took a shower and when I came back the screen was black saying; "I'm sorry, could not locate the module, etc...etc...- RemoteExtra" (I'm not 100% about the "remote", it might've been something else) or some such thing. I shut it down again and it stayed down.

I didn't have time to check it out, I wonder if the black screen with message was related to the screensaver? I have no clue why it's booting itself back up. Need to do some research unless any of y'all might know. Weirdness.

[reader50]

Take it back. The behavior you describe isn't normal, and wasn't the case when you took it in originally. So it's an issue they introduced, and they're more likely to fix it for free the sooner you get it back to them.