[Paco500]

Haven't seen much talk of this on the boards, but maybe someone out there knows something about it.

I'm looking at upgrading my old DV camera to something a bit more modern. The primary reason for this is that my son has taken an interest in videography, specifically filming his sister's various equestrian events/competitions. He's dragged along to these things and now wants something interesting to do at them.

Up until now, he's been using either my iPhone 4 or my wife's 4S. So if I buy something, it would make sense for it to be better than these.

The primary limitation of the iPhone is the lack of an optical zoom. A way to mount to a tripod would be nice as well, although I'm aware you can get these for the iPhone.

Most events are indoors, so something that can handle indoor lighting would be great.

As for cost, I'm not really decided. I'm led to believe that the latest crop of DSLRs would be great for this, but I'm not keen on spending that much money. I'd like to keep things under £500.

Of course if I can't get much better than the 4S for that money, no point, but I'm just not sure where to begin. I realize that an AV forum would make more sense, but I've kind of learned who to trust here so I thought I'd throuw it out there.

EDIT:

I'd want HD, but optics/quality/price are more important than resolution. Meaning I'd rather get a great 720p than a simply good 1080p.

EDIT 2:

Hmmm.... dumb guy posted to PWL. Any mods reading, please move it over to the regular lounge.

[jmiddel]

I have a Sanyo Xacti Vid Cam. Excellent and priced right Sanyo VPC-CG20EXBK-B Xacti CG20 Full HD Dual Camcorder: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

[mduell]

I've been happy with the Canon VIXIA lineup and I've recommended them to a number of people. They've gone model crazy making the lineup a bit complicated. I don't have time right now to write a proper post, so here's a paste of a brief I wrote about 5 months ago for a father-to-be, who asked a similar question and already owned a D80 with some glass:

I'd suggest a camcorder rather than a DSLR. The technical video quality (1080p, shallow DOF, clean ISO 6400+) of the DSLRs is amazing, but the handling for video remains lousy: they're heavy (big image sensor = big body + big lens) which matters more when you're holding it in shooting position unable to relax, holding it is awkward (the pros are on crazy mounts or tripods... you think this, but it's more like this or this), the controls are awkward (manipulating the zoom ring and being able to see the display is tough, even with the shutter button relocated), the autofocus is still too slow (especially if you're using big sensor+fast lens for shallow DOF), and the clips are limited to 12-20 minutes. Canon does slightly better than Nikon (notably framerate, rolling shutter, autofocus), but that would negate your existing glass advantage.

On the camcorder side I like Canon, as does Consumer Reports. The lineup is grouped/tiered into G, S, M, and R models; within that x0 is the base model with 16GB built in storage, x1 is 32GB, x2 is 64GB, and x00 is no built in storage. As you move down the letters you generally get smaller image sensors (some DOF impact, but mostly noise levels in low-light) and fewer pixels on the LCD, although optical zoom range improves (10x like your 18-200 for the high end models, 20x for the lower end models). They all have mic in, I don't know about line-level inputs for flying; it’s a common enough problem the radio splitter boxes may handle it… even lieberma figured out how to do it.

The built in storage is optionally no longer a joke (32-64GB, assume 5-10GB/hr for 720/1080) if you want to avoid cards and they all have 2 SD slots regardless of built in storage (0-64GB) so you have some future flexibility although the markup for built in storage (0-16GB, 16-32GB, 32-64GB) is still quite high ($50-100 for each upgrade) compared to good SDHC cards ($40 per 32GB). Make sure you get an SDXC model if you ever want to use larger than 32GB (SDHC limit) cards.

M4x series is the high end of reasonable, above that it's tiny gains in sensor size. M3x series gives you half the sensor size (but you get 15x zoom instead of 10x) and loses SDXC support. R2x series gets you back SDXC support and the even smaller sensor gives you 20x zoom. That's about the bottom end of reasonable.

M400 is $650, M41 is $750, M300 is $650, M32 is $600 (surprising Amazon markdown), R200 is $380, R21 is $500

So I'd suggest M400 or M32 or R200.

The prices have changed a bit in the last 5 months, but I don't think there's a new model generation on the streets yet, so the model numbers should still hold up as current.

720p isn't really an option unless you're looking at Flips and similar garbage. The proper ACVHD-HD (yes, there's an AVCHD-SD standard) camcorders all offer 1080 as far as I know and may rarely also offer 720.

[Paco500]

Great advice- thanks.

How are they with indoor lighting? There will not be an opportunity to use any additional lighting so it will have to be ambient.

[mduell]

If your indoor shooting can tolerate a wide aperture (short DOF), they do well. There will be noise, but it won't be annoying. You're not going to be filming candle lit scenes. Look towards the models with the larger sensors for better noise control.

[Paco500]

Being ignorant, I don't completely understand your post, but I think I have the gist and it may be an issue.

He will be filming his sister jumping on pony, so he will be following a fairly quick moving target around an arena roughly the size of a basketball court, so I'm not sure that will allow for a short d.o.f.- or do I misunderstand?

[mduell]

That sort of motion certainly won't allow for a short DOF/fast aperture, but I suspect the current generation of cameras will be good enough.

[subego]

Seconded on using a camcorder vs. a DSLR, and the Canon Vixias. I have a pair of HFG10s if you have specific questions.