[TVEdit]

(I crossposted this over at MacWorld... apologies if you've read it there...)

Hey, gang!

As a professional TV Editor/graphic designer, I am realizing that Final Cut Pro is fast becoming an industry standard, and that I, as a professional editor, need to get hip! Been editing for about 13 years professionally (linear, Discreet (PC), Avid (PC)).

I am seriously considering a 15 PowerBook with FCP HD to get going - I am in the market for a laptop anyway. I've never used a Mac before, but I've been able to learn and adapt quite quickly to new software and systems.

My questions:

It seems that Amazon has a $150 rebate going on PowerBooks right now. Also, the Final Cut Pro Production bundle is cheaper there than at the Apple store. I stand to save around $300 if I purchase a 15" 1.5G PowerBook with Final Cut Pro Production bundle. Is this stupid? Any warranty "gotchas" I need to know about if not purchasing directly from Apple?

Have any of you ever purchased a PowerBook from Amazon? My first thought is that I won't be able to "customize" it through Amazon - I'm probably going to want to go with a Gig of RAM, and possibly upgrade the video card. Is that a hassle to do after you get the PowerBook?

I am not trying to do this "on the cheap", but if I can save a bit, great... although my nagging inclination tells me to just remove any potential problems/hassles and drive down to the Apple store.

Also, for any of you that have converted recently - what has your experience been like? Has it been easy to adjust to the Mac way of thinking? Any advice for someone "making the change"?

Thanks in advance...

[Fiete5401]

AFAIK Amazon sells stock-configurations only.

If you really want to use FC HD on one of the current PBs you should buy the PB from the Apple Store and equip it with the faster HDD and the bigger videocard (128 MB).

You can still get Final Cut from Amazon and safe some bucks.

[macaddict0001]

Rumor has it the powerbook will be updated in january(macworld), it will probably ship in april-may. And it will probably be a g5, substantially better than the current powerbook. Not to mention that even if you decide to get the old one at that time, it will have good prices. Another thing you should know is that the powerbook isn't terribly powerful, but it should be fine if you don't mind slight slowdowns from time to time, and waiting for renders(which undoubtedly your used to). What would be really good is a desktop computer for this kind of thing.

[hanxu]

As (basic) video editing as part of my job, I don't know if you actually want to make the switch.

I do use PBook (1.5GHz) and final cut myself, I think it's just not as fast (as high end) as avid.

[UnixMac]

For editing on the go, a BTO machine like mine is the way to go, or actually a 17" if you can spare the extra $. You will want the additional RAM, the faster HD, and the additional VRAM for Motion, etc...

Go to the Apple store and pick one up, they have them in stock in the store... Or if you have a teacher friend, get them to buy it and save 10%.

Also, the high of using FCP is on a dual 2.5PM With RAID.. but you can start with a laptop fist and still get a lot of work done.

[TVEdit]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
What would be really good is a desktop computer for this kind of thing.

Yep... well aware of that. Have a PC desktop at home (with Avid Express), and use Avid at work.

My number one priority is to learn Final Cut. This makes me that much more marketable in my profession ("I can do Avid *and* Final Cut"). I realize that this machine won't be a substitute for my current "tool box", but instead I'm looking to add to my skill set. If, at the same time, I add a mobile laptop to the mix, then great!

I don't really envision doing paying work on the PB... although from what I've heard, it'll handle cuts, dissolves, some basic compositing with DV footage thru firewire pretty decently. What I do like is the way that the Final Cut software on the PB is the exact same as on a dual G5 setup! Complete interchangeability! I could do rough cuts on a PB while on the road, then take my project and conform/polish in a high end system!

Thanks for the feedback, addict!

[TVEdit]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
For editing on the go, a BTO machine like mine is the way to go, or actually a 17" if you can spare the extra $. You will want the additional RAM, the faster HD, and the additional VRAM for Motion, etc...

Go to the Apple store and pick one up, they have them in stock in the store... Or if you have a teacher friend, get them to buy it and save 10%.

Hmmm... BTO? Forgive me, I'm a bit new to Mac world.... Bachman Turner Overdrive? Is there a special BTO edition PB with Randy Bachman on it?

Funny, but sounds like your PB is the config I'll probably go for... the 17" is simply massive! I thought the 15", when test-driving it, would be sufficient... can't justify the extra $$$$ for just 2 inches ("did he say that?").

I called my local Apple store, and they told me that to get the 5400 drive and the upgraded video card, I'd have to order online... they could only do RAM upgrades there at the store.

Thanks for the feedback!

[DeeKat]

I'm a professional filmmaker, i work mostly in TV commercials and TV series. I personnaly edits (off-line) most of my spots on my 17" 1.5 Ghz with FPC. It works very well for off-lining since I can export EDL to the On-line suite. But if you want to freelance some work and On-line yourself you should get a desktop. PB is great for me since I just wanted to do On-the-go off-lines, and for that PB is perfect. But like some posters said it is not the most powerfull setup you can get. If i do some "special effects" on FPC, it works, but you can wait quite a bit for some renders, and that really slows the workflow. Also if I work in hi-res (8 or 10bit uncompressed), it still works but the processor is maxed out. BTW the VRAM does not effect the render speed but it's still good to have the 128Mb option since you won't be able to upgrade the video card later. VRAM will effet 3D apps and games. And finally if you got fot the PB get the 17" you will defenatly enjoy the extra desktop space.

deekat

[SEkker]

BTO = build to order, a common internet / mail-order term.

Get the 5400 rpm HD, it's well worth the extra expense.

And if you take the 17" for a test drive, it's not so much 'massive' as it is functional. It's not THAT much bigger in terms of size and weight, but the extra screen real estate can be very useful when on the road.

[TVEdit]

Originally posted by hanxu:
As (basic) video editing as part of my job, I don't know if you actually want to make the switch.

I do use PBook (1.5GHz) and final cut myself, I think it's just not as fast (as high end) as avid.

I'm realizing that the initial title of my post is somewhat misleading... I should point out that I'm not going to completely quit Avid (and PC)... but I feel that it's critical for me, as a professional video editor, to learn FCP.

But based on what I've heard from folks, once I start using the PB and OSX, I'll want to use it as my personal machine! Believe me, there are things about Windoze that bug me (blue screen crashes, 1001 flavors of drivers - it's like you need a special driver just to scratch yourself). In fact, this morning I spent an hour getting my PC desktop all squared away after not being able to play DVDs, due to some vague video system setting.

As an editor, I generally like Avid - I use it every day, all day at work. There are things that bug me, sure, but I'm seeing that Final Cut is making very serious in-roads into Avid's territory. Avid seems intent on requiring dedicated hardware for everything, which may prove to be their undoing someday.

Thanks a lot for the feedback!

[macaddict0001]

bto is built to order, and you have ot do it online, but you can customize a lot of things,
www.apple.com

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by TVEdit:
I'm realizing that the initial title of my post is somewhat misleading... I should point out that I'm not going to completely quit Avid (and PC)... but I feel that it's critical for me, as a professional video editor, to learn FCP.

But based on what I've heard from folks, once I start using the PB and OSX, I'll want to use it as my personal machine! Believe me, there are things about Windoze that bug me (blue screen crashes, 1001 flavors of drivers - it's like you need a special driver just to scratch yourself). In fact, this morning I spent an hour getting my PC desktop all squared away after not being able to play DVDs, due to some vague video system setting.

As an editor, I generally like Avid - I use it every day, all day at work. There are things that bug me, sure, but I'm seeing that Final Cut is making very serious in-roads into Avid's territory. Avid seems intent on requiring dedicated hardware for everything, which may prove to be their undoing someday.

Thanks a lot for the feedback!

Mac and OS X is not completely hassle or trouble free, but compared to windows its a huge improvement. For you, a rig like I have with 1GB (or more) and 5400RPM drive with a bumped at ATI 128MB will set you back less than $3000 out the door, and will take care of you for a few years.

But go into Apple store and try FCP on a 23" or 30" PM G5 dual, and you'll see what FCP can really do.

[Peabo]

Don't buy one now. Wait till Macworld in January because the odds are they will update them then. It's less than a month away and you'll be kicking yourself if faster ones come out then.

[David Hagan]

The question is can you wait? Apple will probably update the PowerBooks on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 at the MacWorld San Francisco keynote, given by Apple CEO Steve Jobs. There's good vibes that the new version of the PowerBook will have a G5 processor. Given Apple's history, it will be announced at the keynote, and available en masse in late-February/early-March. If there are PowerBook G5s announced at MacWorld, you would probably be in a much better situation as far as video editing performance is concerned over the G4 used in the current line of PowerBooks. If you need now, then get one now. But if you can wait, then I would see what Apple has to offer on 1/11/05.

[SSharon]

Not that you haven't heard it enough times so far but I agree with everyone here. Get the faster HD and upgraded video card, get the ram somewhere other than apple (think crucial.com), and finally since this really isn't a purchase for direct work but rather to learn FCP wait a month and see what happens in January.

[James L]

Thoughts (some repeats of above comments):

1) You really need to BTO...mainly for the 5400rpm hard drive over the standard 4200rpm one. Always, as I am sure you know, get the biggest and quickest HD for video use. You will end up with a superbig, fast external I am sure, but always get the best built in one too. You might as well upgrade the VRAM to 128mb, but it won't effect your video editing to do so, unless you use certain apps like motion or 3D games, and even then the improvement from the extra vram has shown to be very minor.

2) Wait until the next rev of the line comes out if you can. It should be soon, as the current ones came out April 19th (8 months ago). I really don't think the next ones will have a G5 in them, but they will be an improvement none-the-less.

3) Get the least ram from apple you can, and upgrade 3rd party. Crucial.com is good ram.

4) Take a course somewhere and get the education discount!

Good luck. I use Final Cut all the time and it rocks.

Cheers,

James

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by James L:
Thoughts (some repeats of above comments):

1) You really need to BTO...mainly for the 5400rpm hard drive over the standard 4200rpm one. Always, as I am sure you know, get the biggest and quickest HD for video use. You will end up with a superbig, fast external I am sure, but always get the best built in one too. You might as well upgrade the VRAM to 128mb, but it won't effect your video editing to do so, unless you use certain apps like motion or 3D games, and even then the improvement from the extra vram has shown to be very minor.

I actually HIGHLY recommend getting a fast Firewire 800 External drive like a Lacie for your "scratch disk" since video data will fragment your drive badly and cause it to slow down for all other data, including video. The additional advantage is that you can plug it into a desktop later and continue to use that data if you reconnect all of it to the desktop copy of FCP.

Finally, Most fast externals are probably going to be faster than the fasters internal laptop drives.

[betsbillabong]

An alternate point of view from someone using FCP a lot:

I just got the 15" -- and due to the BTO one that shipped to me being damaged, I ended up going to the Apple Store and buying the stock version of the 1.5 15" (not the souped-up version). It was a solid $500 less than the super-loaded one, which I believe came with 1G of RAM.

I am planning on swapping out the current 4200rpm drive for a faster 7200rmp drive as soon as the TravelStar 80G notebook drives come out. It will cost around $50 for an Apple-certified tech to do it, but well worth it. I'll keep my current drive for backup, and use my current backup drive for archival purposes. That said, though, I haven't had any dropped frames running on the stock 4200 drive, and the renders haven't been too bad. Like you, I have desktop systems at my disposal so this is not my only system.

I bought 1G of RAM from newegg.com for slightly under $200. Do *not* buy RAM from Apple, it's a major ripoff.

I don't think Motion will run well on *any* current powerbook whether it's 64MB or 128MB on the GPU, so I didn't feel the need to upgrade that either.

I could not wait until January as I had a project I needed the powerbook for, however I'd definitely recommend waiting at this point. Chances are slim that G5s will come out in January, but there'll probably be a speed bump, and if not, a price reduction.

A nice thing about buying at the Apple Store was being able to make sure that there were no dead pixels on the screen, etc. You are not allowed to return powerbooks for a single dead pixel, so that was an important consideration for me.

[nagromme]

I'd wait until Jan. 11 just to see what might be coming, if anything. Maybe new PowerBooks, maybe just an announcement about them... worth a couple weeks delay just to be sure. I doubt we'll see a G5 PowerBook that soon, but G4s with more bang for less book have to be coming along soon.

Possibly even more useful, you may hear a timeline for Tiger. A BIG improvent to the already-great Panther OS. You save yourself the $129 upgrade cost if you wait until Tiger is pre-installed. BUT that could be months. We may know soon.

Final Cut Pro - and Mac OS X - are amazing products. Your first Mac will seem strange for a couple minutes, but it will fit smoothly into your PC environment. When you find yourself asking "How do I...?" the answer is likely to be... "With Mac OS X, you don't even have to!"

As for buying from Amazon... few resellers offer Built-To-Order, and I don't know if Amazon is one of them. But I do know Amazon tends to have very good prices on Apple products! And the warranty doesn't care where you ordered.

And be sure to get 768 MB RAM total, at the very least. My 1 GB RAM went bad and I'm down to 256 right now... ouch! It's slow this way! 1 GB or more is recommended. Buy from transintl.com or eshop.macsales.com to get a better price on RAM than Apple offers... UNLESS the specific config occasionally works out cheaper to just get Apple's. (That can happen if buying 3rd party RAM means discarding some or all of the standard RAM.)

Welcome, and stop back any time for help! The General forum at forums.maccentral.com is recommended too--lots of help, not many trolls.