[kevs]

I have a 27" imac 12/09, and a Macbook air 11" 2012. They have had good runs but are both having issues. The desktop needs more Ram and a new Hardrive (I would get an SSD). The laptop need a new hardrive as well as the 65GB is now too small.

I could keep investing in these two machines, but would like to ask: When does one decide to upgrade desktops and laptops in general-- even though you could just keep replacing stuff?

[OreoCookie]

Computers are like cars, you need to replace them periodically. In my experience, the replacement cycle is somewhere between 3 and 6 years, but you shouldn't keep a machine for much longer than 6. Personally, I replace machines roughly every 3-4 years.

So if I were you, I'd look into replacing the iMac this year or so, and I would not invest the money into upgrades at this point. Regarding the MacBook Air, there are SSD upgrades, and they are not too expensive. I recommend you take at least the 240 GB upgrade (Macs get slow and wonky once you are low on space) which costs $150 with tools and enclosure for your old SSD (so you can transfer the data). That's an upgrade I'd make. And then I'd start saving to replace the Air in 2 years or so.

[kevs]

Great point Oreo, yeah, I could get the 27" working like new for a few hundred for sure, but I'm with you, time go.

But don't you think the macbook air 11", same thing? 4 years Old?

And if so, I was leaning to just getting the version with 128 GB as I really don't use much hardrive space.... seriously. I only put 10GB of apps and 6 GB of Mail (imap) and rest is system files.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by kevs 

But don't you think the macbook air 11", same thing? 4 years Old?

Well, if you have the money to replace both machines at the same time, why not? (Although I'd wait for the next upgrade to Intel's Skylake CPUs.) But if you don't necessarily crave for a retina screen right now, I'd upgrade the SSD and wait a little longer.

Originally Posted by kevs 

And if so, I was leaning to just getting the version with 128 GB as I really don't use much hardrive space.... seriously. I only put 10GB of apps and 6 GB of Mail (imap) and rest is system files.

The price difference is quite small, and you'll have a much easier time selling a 256 GB machine than a 128 GB machine. Moreover, once you have the space, people tend to use it (e. g. you copy a few movies and music files for a trip, and voila, you're out of space again).

[kevs]

A posted a long response but this site said server too busy, now off my clipboard dang! uhn.

Here is go again: Thanks Oreo:

The desktop I'll get now, its mid cycle, does it have Skylake? Never even heard about Skylake.

The laptop is due to have a new model real soon, so I'll wait.

And you say get 256 for the laptop? Ok...

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by kevs 

The desktop I'll get now, its mid cycle, does it have Skylake? Never even heard about Skylake.

Skylake is just the code name for Intel's latest generation of CPUs, and they haven't released iMacs with those yet. As you can see from MacRumor's buyer's guide you should hold off buying a new iMac if you can. In any case, when you get a new iMac, definitely invest in an SSD and a Retina screen. As you probably know from using your MacBook Air, SSDs make a huge difference, and the new ones you find in Apple's Macs are ~3x faster than what you find in your MacBook Air.

Originally Posted by kevs 

The laptop is due to have a new model real soon, so I'll wait.

Yes. If you like the size, I suggest you look into the new MacBook: Retina screen, fanless and even lighter than your Air.

[kevs]

Thanks Oreo:
That site says Neutral for the imac 27" and Don't buy for everything else. Pity they don't align them all together.

Do they put a new CPU in every changed model or is that a rare thing I should hold out for. Is Skylake in anything now? So even though you see it's Neutral, and 6-7 months off, I should hang out? Darn, I was just about to buy! Watch my computer die out in 3 months while waiting! Of course I'll get Retina and SSD. They all come with SSD now no?

Now of course the laptop I'll wait, it says don't buy.

I was thinking of asking in store, and maybe making a new thread, but I'll ask you:

Your recommendation for the imac 27" on internal Drive. Lot of options, Fusion this.. that..that. different sizes...
And also, currently I have 4 externals all about 3-5 years old. : 3 are 3TB for data, (one main, and others are clone backups), and one 700MB for Time Machine. For TM I exclude a lot. Keep them or...?

[OreoCookie]

Intel's new CPU line-up was delayed and it's put Apple in a bit of a pickle, more time between updates has passed than usual. Skylake will bring only very small performance boosts, but big improvements in battery life. So if your iMac is on its way out, you won't miss too much. Personally, I'd try to wait until after WWDC in June, though, it's quite likely that new models will be released then. As for the laptop, I'd definitely wait. Regarding storage options, I'd go for an SSD, not a Fusion Drive. As far as capacity goes, I'd take the capacity you need right now by two.

Also the external drives seem kinda old, but at least you have several backups (kudos). Also here, you should replace the older drives.

[kevs]

What going on with site, always says server is busy at moment.. never seen before.

Thanks Oreo! Like I've said, I'm waiting on laptop, no brainer says DON'T BUY.

But desktop is NEUTRAL. You say it'll be small boost, hence then Buy now, right, don't wait -6, 7 months. Or you think it may come in June, that early? Probably not so--so buy now desktop is what I'm thinking....

Storage is mostly my externals, which need 2 backup, one off site one one. So that would be crazy expensive to just have SSD only no? Fusion is mostly for the Mac HD, but I don't store much on that. The question about externals, I'm happy with mine, but the whole speed bump with USB 3 I don't get. My externals and my 5 hubs. are all USB 2 You lose all that benefit if you don't keep replacing your external hardrive right? What is the speed bump from 2 to 3, and then same question with new cable thing... Lightning?

[OreoCookie]

For backups you can safely go with old school spinning platter hard drives, when I recommended an SSD, I was referring to the iMac, get an SSD instead of a fusion drive. If you keep the capacity rule in mind (2x what you currently need) you should be fine. Remember that filled SSDs also get much slower, and OS X gets cranky if you run low on disk space). And if you need the iMac now, go ahead and buy it. (I had to upgrade my main machine last March, even though I would have preferred to wait until the Skylake machines, but there was budget left at the end of the fiscal year that had to be spent.) Feel free to ask for advice if you need help with the configuration. (If you do, make sure to give a budget.)

Regarding the external hard drive, I was just thinking about their age, it's better to replace hard drives after some years of use (I usually do that after 5 years or when they are full, whichever comes first). I don't recommend Lightning at this point unless you have very specific workflows in mind. For use as backup drives, you just don't need a faster interface. USB3 is half or one quarter as fast as Lightning, but plenty fast for almost all storage use cases. Plus, USB3 is everywhere and backwards compatible: you can plug in a USB3 drive into an old Mac with USB2 or the Retina MacBook (which doesn't have Lightning!). USB3 is significantly faster (the protocol is 10x faster, but in reality the speed difference is 2x or so with spinning platter hard drives, with SSDs more), but if you are just interested in backups, you don't necessarily need the speed (I'd probably do the first backup or copy when plugged into the computer, that'd really speed up the initial copy). So in the simplest case, and you connect your new external hard drive to a USB2 hub, it will slow down to USB2 speeds.

[kevs]

Oreo, the FUSION is the SSD, I just went to Apple store today. The $1799 version has no SSD, and the $1999 Fusion has SSD (though is only 128 or 156 GB SSD. (sadey only 15% is SSD!). So I was going to buy Fusion as it has the SSD, but I'll wait to see what you are saying. For the Mac HD, I don't need space, just for stystem, and icloud, email imap that's it.

I dont use USB 3 for anything. My old hard drives and hubs are all usb 2 , I mostly opening images from them so to get a speed accessing bump, I'd have to buy new hardrive that were made for USB 3 right. Not sure how old they are... But if I replaced all hardrive from 2 to 3 and the hubs then those images would open twice as fast?

What is 2 to 1? What is 2 what is 1? confusing.. thanks!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by kevs 

Oreo, the FUSION is the SSD, I just went to Apple store today. The $1799 version has no SSD, and the $1999 Fusion has SSD (though is only 128 or 156 GB SSD. (sadey only 15% is SSD!). So I was going to buy Fusion as it has the SSD, but I'll wait to see what you are saying.

Fusion ≠ SSD. There are three options:
(1) Classical hard drive with spinning platters — just no.
(2) Fusion drive: it combines an SSD with a classical hard drive — opt for that only if you are in a pinch.
(3) SSD only: these are pricier, but much better for longevity. Get this one, especially if you don't need a lot of storage.

So my recommendation is to get SSD only. Probably that's a built-to-order configuration.

Originally Posted by kevs 

For the Mac HD, I don't need space, just for stystem, and icloud, email imap that's it.

How many GB are we talking about here?

Originally Posted by kevs 

I dont use USB 3 for anything. My old hard drives and hubs are all usb 2 , I mostly opening images from them so to get a speed accessing bump, I'd have to buy new hardrive that were made for USB 3 right.

No, you wouldn't have to replace the hubs or the other hard drives, USB3 is fully backwards compatible. If you get a new Mac and plug in the external hard drive direction, it will use the faster speeds, though. BTW, I'm suggesting to replace one or two external hard drives not because of the speed bump, but because also external hard drives can fail with age. And the probability grows with age — I'd replace external hard drives after 5 years or so.

Originally Posted by kevs 

What is 2 to 1? What is 2 what is 1? confusing.. thanks!

I'm not sure what you mean, can you explain?

[kevs]

iMac - Tech Specs - Apple

There are a choice of 2 Fusion drives, and Apple BTW does not reveal anywhere what the SSD % is.

The woman at the store said the has about 125 or 156 GB, paltry, and the $2299 version may not even give you any more SSD! She was not sure and could find any more specs than the ambiguous ones on this page.

k now I get it. I go all the way to the apple store and she explains poorly, get all 1TB of flash? But how much is that? And do I need a bull TB of Flash? then I'd have to get 2 backups for that date which also would be expensive... Then I'd have 6 drives instead of 3. Currently I have three. I have a main, a backup, and a bank, and I clone main to the other two, and there is a partition in all for the OS. I don't put any data on the OS partition... Where are prices on all these choice? Still confusing, no prices and what's going on?

I was told that hubs have to match the USB speed. That a USB 1 hub, you don't get then the speed from the USB 2 cables.

Ok I got it, get capacity by 2 -- boy that is a lot.

The back of the new machine does not have the video port where my TV plug goes in. It has an SDXC card slot, it anyone even using that? BTW don't mention memory I don't think...! Thanks for helping again Oreo, you are better than the Apple staff!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by kevs 

There are a choice of 2 Fusion drives, and Apple BTW does not reveal anywhere what the SSD % is.

It's written on in the section on storage: instead of a 1-2 TB Fusion Drive you can configure an SSD with 256 GB, 512 GB or 1 TB in the 27" model (which is the one you are interested in). You can find the prices by clicking Buy on the top right of the specs page that you linked to and then choose the model. Upgrading from a 1 TB Fusion Drive to a 256 GB SSD costs $100. I think 256 GB is not enough this day and age, so you'd look into a $400 upgrade for 512 GB. The 1 TB is quite pricey, it sets you back $900.

A sensible starting point for a configuration would be to upgrade to
- 16 GB RAM and
- 512 GB SSD.

If you choose the low-end CPU, that come to $2,499, if you want better graphics and start from the middle model, that comes to $2,599.

Originally Posted by kevs 

The woman at the store said the has about 125 or 156 GB, paltry, and the $2299 version may not even give you any more SSD! She was not sure and could find any more specs than the ambiguous ones on this page.

I think she was talking about the size of the SSD which is included when you get a Fusion Drive: there you have a 128 GB SSD cache (you can configure other sizes, too), so what she said sounds correct even if it isn't easily understandable for a layperson.

Originally Posted by kevs 

k now I get it. I go all the way to the apple store and she explains poorly, get all 1TB of flash? But how much is that? And do I need a bull TB of Flash? then I'd have to get 2 backups for that date which also would be expensive...

You wrote that you have 3 TB backup drives. Unless these backup drives are already full, you could continue using them even if you opt for the 1 TB SSD.

Originally Posted by kevs 

I was told that hubs have to match the USB speed. That a USB 1 hub, you don't get then the speed from the USB 2 cables.

No, hubs don't have to match the speed, everything just defaults to the lowest common denominator. So with a USB1 hub, everything will work, but it'd be painfully slow (USB2 transfer rates are about 7~12 times faster than USB1, and USB3 is much faster still). In all likelihood, you have a USB2-compatible hub. (Apart from certain keyboards with built-in hubs (mostly to connect mice), I'm not aware that USB1 hubs are even on sale today.)

Originally Posted by kevs 

Ok I got it, get capacity by 2 -- boy that is a lot.

Yes, but for how long do you want to keep your computer? If the answer is 5~6 years, then you should plan very conservatively with storage — unless you know for a fact that you will never ever use more storage than x. Even my wife pushes the limits of a 256 GB SSD because of her photos (she loves my Fuji X100s, and a RAW file weighs in at about 30~35 MB a piece). As soon as you have to divide storage between different volumes, and you don't have access to all data at all times, it gets very annoying.

[kevs]

Thanks Oreo, dang, my last 27" was only 1700 or 1800 and I thought that would be it now. But as I look at the Mac HD, that alone takes up 160 GB, for Apple without upgrading anything barely fit's the OS right?

So you have your OS on SSD and you put your favorite folders, let's say images your want to open up fast. So 500 is what you recommend? Is Apples price on SSD fair or overpriced? Their Ram price was famous for being too high compared to Crucial and others. I don't know if they have come in line these days. I know last week I was in the Apple store and their price for a Belkin converter was 3x higher than on Amazon.

What are the thing you want on SSD? Images (I'm a photographer), what else?

16 Ram is ok, they listed that somewhere?

Back to USB 3, so lowest common denominator -- "So with a USB1 hub, everything will work, but it'd be painfully slow ", so then you agree you need a USB 3 hub to get USB 3 speed or else I'm confused. I remember having to buy USB2 cables too.

[P]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Skylake is just the code name for Intel's latest generation of CPUs, and they haven't released iMacs with those yet.

If I can disturb for a second... Actually the 27" iMac uses Skylake now. The 21" is on Broadwell, the generation before, but still fairly new.

[kevs]

Thanks, P

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by P 

If I can disturb for a second... Actually the 27" iMac uses Skylake now. The 21" is on Broadwell, the generation before, but still fairly new.

Aaah, ok. Thanks for catching this, CPU-wise Apple's line-up is in a bit of a mess right now: so they're selling CPUs from 4 generations, Ivybridge (really old 13" non-Retina MacBook Pro with optical drive), Haswell (15" MacBook Pro), Broadwell (13" MacBook Pro) and Skylake (27" iMac)

[P]

Yup. Mac Pro is also Ivy Bridge (Ivy Bridge-E), so there is more than one line on all the old generations: old MBP and MP on Ivy, 15" MBP and mini on Haswell, 13" MBP, Air and 21" iMac on Broadwell, and only 27" iMac (so far) on Skylake. And Kaby Lake is only a few months out now. Mess doesn't even begin to describe it.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by P 

Yup. Mac Pro is also Ivy Bridge (Ivy Bridge-E), so there is more than one line on all the old generations: old MBP and MP on Ivy, 15" MBP and mini on Haswell, 13" MBP, Air and 21" iMac on Broadwell, and only 27" iMac (so far) on Skylake. And Kaby Lake is only a few months out now. Mess doesn't even begin to describe it.

No wonder I forgot the 27" iMac was already on Skylake … these staggered launches really messed up everything. I wonder if Kaby Lake is going to be the straw that may break the camel's back for Apple. (There are substantiated rumors that they are working on their own servers. I'm curious as to whether at least some of them run custom ARM silicon … which could be used to bootstrap the introduction of non-mobile CPUs/SoCs.)

[P]

The real issue is that both of the MBPs are now really old, and it is frustrating to see the CPU that we really need in the 13" MBP, the dualcore with good graphics, eDRAM and DDR4, being available but not used by Apple.

The MP seems to have skipped Haswell-E for whatever reason, and Broadwell-E just launched. The old non-Retina MBP isn't updated at all. Mini is always late, and if the 21" iMac uses a CPU that is less than a year old I guess we can live with that. The MBP is the issue here.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by P 

The real issue is that both of the MBPs are now really old, and it is frustrating to see the CPU that we really need in the 13" MBP, the dualcore with good graphics, eDRAM and DDR4, being available but not used by Apple.

Yeah, this cycle is really weird, as if something has seriously gone off the rails here. I was especially hoping to have been able to order a 13" Retina with that exact part. I'm not sure whether Apple made a bet and lost (maybe that their Skylake parts were even more late, and they could release a Macbook Pro with a new enclosure). Also the Air is still using Broadwell, and that is Apple's best selling Mac. Something is going on. Laziness to update the Mac Pro is something I can understand, but the Retinas sell in significant numbers and I am sure generate a disproportionate part of their profits.

Originally Posted by P 

The MP seems to have skipped Haswell-E for whatever reason, and Broadwell-E just launched. The old non-Retina MBP isn't updated at all. Mini is always late, and if the 21" iMac uses a CPU that is less than a year old I guess we can live with that. The MBP is the issue here.

Exactly.

[kevs]

I decided for the macbook air to buy from OCW, a kit of 128 SSD. The video was real good, and I got a great tech guy on the phone.

But as I was unscrewing the last screw on the plate, it would not come out. This screw did not have the 5 ridges the others had. It was a perfect circle. The computer has never been serviced. So we could not get it out. So he recommended I take it into the Apple store to show them that. Which I may do.

50 min of the workday, on the phone getting the plate almost off, then putting it back, as I lost a couple of the little screws, but found them, and I'm back to where I was.

[reader50]

Can you post a close-up pic of this one screw?

[kevs]

Just looked Reader to double check, and I'm 100% that one screw is off. I just lost an hour of the day, so I'm too burnt out. This forum also has to attachment ability. But if you PM me, I'll get a photo to you, promise!

[P]

You can include an image that you upload to somewhere else, imgur or something like that, but attaching files to the forum itself is disabled.

In the meantime, consider reading the ifixit guides for your model. I think this is the one:

https://www.ifixit.com/Device/MacBoo...11%22_Mid_2011

[kevs]

P being uploading to this forum is PITA, there is no point. If someone individually wanted to see, I would do it PM. That link does not help, I have to take this to Apple to a store as OCW guy suggested. Lost an hour of the day. Amazing.

[reader50]

kevs, you can email the pic to the admin box. I'll post it temporarily. By "the one screw is off" it sounds like it's missing? That would explain the round hole. If true, it also means the case was ready to come off when you reached that point.

[reader50]

It's a pentalobe screw, and it's stripped out.

I don't recommend this as a DIY fix, unless you're very handy, have a well-stocked tool bench, and a light touch.

You need to drill out the screw head, without damaging the back case. After the case is off, you need to extract what's left of the screw before it can be replaced.

I might use a dremel, followed by miniature vice-grip for the remnant thread removal. Should the thread removal fail, you either live with a missing screw hole, or drill out and retap the hole. In all cases, a slip with the drilling tool could cause disaster. The aluminum of the case will drill easier than the screw remnant, and the motherboard will drill easier still.

[kevs]

Thanks Reader.
Well, I never got traction when I was turning it. In other words, I never felt anything. In the past, when I've stripped screws, I have felt traction, but not enough and then stripped the screw. In this case, I never felt anything and assumed Apple installed a round screw there. Only other time the plate was removed was by a sales rep at the Apple Store who put in a new battery. I think they did that twice.

Anyway, I now have more of a time drain on my hands. I'll call Apple store and 3rd party stores to see what to do.

This DIY option of putting in your own hardrive is probably going to total 4-5 hours of time drain, and save no money. I'm not too inclined to DIY again.

And I may have to leave the unit and have no laptop for awhile. All this would have been avoided by just paying a store to install or buying a new unit. Total disaster DIY hardrives.