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I'm developing "mouse hand," help!
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Cottonsworth
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Nov 12, 2006, 07:47 PM
 
I think I'm developing a bad case of mouse hand and I really need to get a more ergonomic mouse. Any suggestions?
     
ghporter
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Nov 12, 2006, 08:05 PM
 
The mouse is only a small part of the issue. You need to make sure your wrist is in a good position-not hovering over the desktop but resting on it with good cushioning. A mousepad with a gel wrist rest is a good start. You'll also want a mouse that's not terribly heavy to reduce the amount of force needed to move it around.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
hookem2oo7
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Nov 12, 2006, 08:52 PM
 
What is "mouse hand?" I've never heard of this before...
     
Cottonsworth  (op)
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Nov 12, 2006, 09:32 PM
 
Mouse hand is a condition, characterized by your hand always being in the position of using a mouse, whether or not you are currently using one. It is brought on through prolonged (years) usage of a mouse. It didn't bother me before but now my wrist and hands really hurt. It is to a point where my hand is swollen (it isn't obvious, but I can feel it being totally different compared to my left hand, which doesn't see mouse duty, especially when I make a fist). I tried switching hands and it worked but I'm worried my other hand will also eventually develop "mouse hand." My swollen hand gets better when I stop using it with a mouse but once I start, the original symptoms reappear. I am already using a gel wrist. I'm hoping a better ergonomic mouse might help me.
     
fisherKing
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Nov 12, 2006, 10:34 PM
 
try a trackball (i use the kensington orbit).

try switching hands...takes some time, but helps.

take glucosamine chondrotin (health food store).

take breaks, massage your wrists, hands (in fact, do this before you sit down at your computer).

google! lots of info on carpal tunnel, rsi, etc.
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
amazing
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Nov 16, 2006, 01:53 AM
 
Yep, try a trackball. I've used several over the years, my current favorite is the Macally Q-ball, though you probably can't find it in stores anymore.

Also, B-vitamins are said to help with carpal tunnel. Exercising the forearm also helps take strain off the wrist.
     
Cottonsworth  (op)
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Nov 16, 2006, 02:02 AM
 
Thanks for the suggestion guys, I'll give it a shot.
     
tooki
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Nov 16, 2006, 02:48 AM
 
...and learn to take frequent breaks, which make a big difference in RSIs.

tooki
     
wuzup101
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Nov 17, 2006, 07:48 AM
 
Good advise by all. As an above poster mentioned, you might also think about taking glucosamine, which can be purchased at most health/suppliment stores (think GNC, Vitamine Shoppe, bodybuilding.com, etc..). Other than that, take frequent breaks, streach out your hand, see a doctor!
Mac: 15" 1.5ghz PB w/ 128mb vid, 5400rpm 80gb, combo drive, 2gb ram
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chrismear
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Nov 17, 2006, 08:30 AM
 
MacBreakZ is a great little program that you might want to have a look at. It monitors when you're using the computer and reminds you to take appropriate breaks every now and again. It also gives you hand/arm/body stretches to do during your breaks. I've only been using it for a couple of days and my hands already feel happier.
     
iMacfan
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Nov 17, 2006, 12:35 PM
 
My opinion - a Logitech Revolution MX (or similarly shaped but not quite so expensive mouse), and a good mouse pad with a gel wrist rest.

David
http://www.ppconmac.com - Mac compatability for your PocketPC!
     
ghporter
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Nov 17, 2006, 05:31 PM
 
One more thing - during those frequent breaks, EXTEND your fingers, stretching them as much as you can without using your other hand, the desk, etc. The thing with "mouse hand" and similar issues is that the tendons for the muscles that extend your fingers, which go though the space on the back of your wrist, get lax and effectively stick. By intentionally extending your fingers, you reduce this, work the extending muscles, and help loosen the whole hand.

ANY activity where you force your body to conform to some particular shape for long periods of time is BAD and requires counter-activities to help reverse the damage they do.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
JeffHarris
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Nov 18, 2006, 10:48 AM
 
Forget mice.

Yes, get a trackball. I have the Kensington Expert Mouse.

It's optical, so there are no rollers to clean. Unlike the sub-par Kensington Orbit (I've owned both), the large ball rolls easily and is a pleasure to use. It has 4 programmable buttons and a scroll ring. The scroll ring is so much better than a scroll wheel. You use a motion similar as with the ball and don't have to reach for the scroll wheel. You'll NEVER get mouse grip hand cramps, either.

It's also perfect for a multi-monitor setup. The cursor flies back and forth between displays and I never run out of mouse cord or off the edge of the mouse pad.

You might also consider getting a WACOM Tablet. The ones with wireless, battery-less pressure sensitive stylus. There's a toggle button/switch on the side which is programmable. I use it for contextual menus. Since it's a pen, what could be more intuitive to use?

My 2¢
     
amazing
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Nov 18, 2006, 11:06 AM
 
David Pogue had carpal tunnel, that's one reason why he uses Dragon Naturally Speaking on Windows to dictate everything under the sun. As I recall, he wrote an article on speech recognition and dictation software on the Mac side of things, and it just couldn't compare to Dragon. Also, I do believe he wrote something about running it in Parallels vs Boot Camp?? though I can't recall how the comparison came out.

IMO, that sole piece of software is an excellent reason to install Windows on the PC side of and Intel Mac.
     
lujo
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Nov 20, 2006, 12:43 AM
 
I've had mouse hand and accompanying soreness on and off for about 3 years (and I haven't even hit 30 yet). Needless to say, I've done a lot of investigating and tried a number of things, but regular breaks have proven themselves as THE solution for me.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my Kensington Expert Mouse (trackball) and I now alternate between using both my right and left hand. I get the benefit of less usage of a single hand and the benefits of using both a trackball and a mouse (each has it's pros and cons), but that didn't do it. I'm taken vacations -- literally 7-10 days away from a computer -- and that alone did not give relief. Add ergonomic keyboards and lots of posture work ... still not doing it.

I simply started using Time Out! or AntiRSI, two applications that provide customizable break reminders, and I have found relief in a matter of days. During the regular 15 second breaks I do a little stretch of my arms and hands, sometimes I stand up, and I usually try to keep some water at the desk to take a sip. But the time I've done a little stretch and taken a sip, it's time to get back to work.

Why do I know it's that and not something else? The relief happened in a matter of a couple of days and I have problems again as soon as I stop using them. In fact, at work, I always use one of the two applications (each has their upside so I sometimes switch) and at home I don't often use them. If I'm doing a project or have lots of things to do at home and end up spending a couple of hours on the computer, the soreness comes right back. If I always use one of the applications to remind me, no such problems.

Aside from the absence of pain, I also drink more water which is always good for you, and I've found that I can remain focused and energized for the whole day much better when I take those short breaks every 6-10 minutes (yes, they sometimes are annoying but for painfree living, it's TOTALLY worth it) and a 5-10 minute break every hour.

Quick reviews of Time Out! and AntiRSI...

AntiRSI
Very simple application that pops up a bezel in the center of the screen to remind you to take a break. You can set the intervals and length for both the frequent, short breaks and occassional, longer breaks. During breaks you can still type and use the mouse, but it will reset the break timer, so you have to take a break for the timer to go away, which can be annoying when I'm really focused on something and just trying to finish in the next couple of minutes. I do like the small bezel but would like a dismiss/skip/postpone option on the breaks.

Time Out!
Very customizable application that fades the whole screen during breaks and prevents you from clicking on anything with the mouse during breaks. It does a better job of forcing you to take a break right then but the fact that it forces you is bothersome. It does, however, present the option to delay or skip all breaks. And when I say customizable, I'm not kidding. Fade in/out color/time, sounds, launch scripts -- lots to play with.

If you haven't tried regular breaks, do it. The reminders are a little annoying but the regular breaks have many upsides and the applications are free/donationware. My pain is gone, grip strength is back, my hands no longer look like the claw, and I definitely have not cut back on computer time. I also would also suggest following tips for different mice/trackballs, posture, and all the other good habits along with the breaks.
     
Cottonsworth  (op)
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Nov 20, 2006, 02:11 AM
 
Thanks for the suggestion guys! I'll give them a try, especially taking frequent breaks. The MX seems to be helping a bit. I also got a Microsoft ergonomic 4000 keybroad, which also seems to help since it provides great wrist support.
     
bluedog
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Nov 20, 2006, 12:07 PM
 
Depending on your setup and computer inclinations, you may also find getting a graphics tablet with stylus/pen will help.

To do a mouseclick you can tap the entire pen down with your hand rather than just a finger. You also are more likely to handle it like a pen/pencil and automatically hold your wrist at a better angle.

If you use photoshop or have a software that can take advantage of the pressure sensitivity, the stylus/tablet could become the obvious choice.

I used one exclusively for a period of time when I was clicking more often (using Powerpoint of all things, ugh.) and found a fairly elegant solution.

When you use the tablet and go from keyboard to stylus it was a pain to have to grab the stylus and then move the cursor. I cut a small piece of elastic and sewed it to fit snugly around my index finger and then another loop to hold the stylus. If positioned properly I just used by thumb to push the stylus into place for writing/pointing/drawing. It worked great and my wrists and tendons took less of a beating.

The most important thing is to try minimize the stress you have on your wrists and hands and arms. Positioning of your worksurface height, chair and armwrests if you have them if a must. Do a google search for RSI and ergonomics and you'll find plenty of help.

Good luck and 'soft mousing' to you.
     
Mojo
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Nov 22, 2006, 01:16 AM
 
I have used a Kensington Orbit Trackball for years in order to avoid your problem and it works great. Your index finger does most of the work; there are two buttons that can be "programmed" in myriad ways that can be specific to whatever application you are using. I rest my wrist on an oval gel pad that I bought at Staples.

I personally prefer the mechanical version over the optical version of the Orbit. I would hazard to guess that JeffHarris' comment regarding the Orbit refers to the optical version, which has a "sloppy" feel to it, for lack of a better term. The ball seems to take considerably more effort to move than the mechanical Orbit. I have found that the Orbit combined with the wrist pad provides a better feel and support than the Expert Mouse, an otherwise excellent product that totally neglects ergonomics.

The best option is to buy whatever you choose somewhere that has a liberal return policy because trackballs/mice are a very subjective experience.
     
MattJeff
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Nov 24, 2006, 06:04 PM
 
are there any mice with built in gel pads? or is that idea to crazy?
     
MattJeff
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Nov 25, 2006, 01:38 AM
 
haha umm i will take that as a yes its too crazy
     
©öñFü$íóÑ
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Nov 25, 2006, 02:38 AM
 
actually..... mice with built-in gel pads....... that actually kinda sounds interesting. Maybe 3-4 months from now, you'll see those "gamer" mice having them. Like, Logitech...... or the ones from RazerZone.com........ you never know what comes next! (anything to keep the chat-fraggers going strong!)

Don't bully me, I got an Uzi... HOO-HAH!
     
markponcelet
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Nov 28, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
I think a trackball will work for you. Here's my personal experience.

I used a trackball for years, exclusively. I came to work with my present employer who had a lowsy program that required a PC -- which had a mouse. Within six months of using that mouse-intensive program, I had a horrid case of "mouse hand." Sharp pains, swollen hands, all of that. I started bringing my trackball to work and plugging it in (not an altogether easy task since I had to crawl under my desk twice a day), but the problem vanished within a few weeks.

And no, I didn't use any sort of pads to hold my wrist up. Something about how I use a mouse just aggravates the condition.
     
Madrag
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Dec 4, 2006, 06:12 AM
 
I read this thread a week ago, and I thought "I'm so lucky!, in all this years I never had any wrist problems!", and yeasterday I couldn't work anymore, because of the pain I was feeling on my right wrist
I just followed the advice, and stoped.
Hopefully that will sort it for now, I need to take care from now on.
     
   
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