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Can we have a complain about America forum?
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King Bob On The Cob
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Jan 7, 2004, 10:57 PM
 
Or maybe just a complain about America thread. I'd love to see how many posts something could get if all the America bitching in one place, plus the America vs. the world is starting to degrade other threads in the lounge, as they don't seem to want to bring it to politics.
     
Sherwin
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Jan 7, 2004, 11:02 PM
 
Right then, I'll start.

Stupid Americans sent us a Gwyneth Paltrow and a Liv Tyler, when what we ordered was two Liv Tylers. How crap can a place get at order picking?
     
MacGorilla
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Jan 7, 2004, 11:05 PM
 
We have 50 states. WTF is up with all that? How many Dakotas do we need? or Carolinas? And really, how useful is wyoming anyway?

lets start getting rid of some states to make room for useful states. I mean, who wouldn't want a double size delaware?
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kertong
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Jan 7, 2004, 11:09 PM
 
I was born in Korea, and lived there until I was 6 before I came over to the US. So, I like to think that I have a pretty good understanding as to how different two cultures can be.

The american culture has its good points, as well as its bad. The bad ones are pretty glaring though. More than half the women over 30 here seem pasty and overweight, and we're known for our frivolous lawsuits. We're crude, barbaric, beer-swilling, banjo totin' Americans. Our 3 largest coastal cities of Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco are known for their drive-by shootings, crime, and flaming transvestites. But the freedom of expression thing is pretty cool, until somebody calls you a jerk. It's a two way thing, and some people don't understand that.

With all that said, I love America and everything.. but I would not mind moving to Canada. It seems great up there. And I want to get away from all this crap going on in America for a while. Can I come join you guys? I'll bring some marshmallows and chocolates.
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gorickey
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Jan 7, 2004, 11:11 PM
 
Apple phone support sucks in America...I'd think moving the staff to India would do for a great change....
     
dtriska
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:06 AM
 
Originally posted by kertong:
Can I come join you guys? I'll bring some marshmallows and chocolates.
Yeah, sure, come on up. Except, we'll have to make smores in the microwave; open flame melts our igloos.
     
iNub
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Sherwin:
Right then, I'll start.

Stupid Americans sent us a Gwyneth Paltrow and a Liv Tyler, when what we ordered was two Liv Tylers. How crap can a place get at order picking?
I just asked Steve, he said he tried *really* hard but he has no stamina.
     
Zimphire
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:55 AM
 
People who constantly complain about ANY country usually come off as having sour grapes.

For example. The SWF.
     
Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
People who constantly complain about ANY country usually come off as having sour grapes.

For example. The SWF.
The Sydney Writers' Festival?

What are you on about?

     
Kilbey
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:14 AM
 
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
     
Socially Awkward Solo
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:14 AM
 
Originally posted by Sherwin:
The Sydney Writers' Festival?

What are you on about?


Ha ha ha. I think he is grumpy cuz he has a small wiener

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Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:27 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
This is incorrect Kilbey. We like to give you guys a gentle ribbing over the small things that you tend to set yourselves up for... ...like your (plural) tendency to assume that you have freedoms and opportunities which the rest of the World doesn't.



You have a fine country over there, but you do set yourselves up for a ribbing quite often.
     
thunderous_funker
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:27 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
Most people who go on and on about how everyone must be jealous of America usually have very little idea just how common the freedoms and opportunities Americans enjoy really are and that these freedoms and opportunities are, in fact, enjoyed by a great many people around the world.
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Stradlater
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:57 AM
 
Can we have a complain about America forum?
http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=95
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Socially Awkward Solo
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Jan 8, 2004, 02:00 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
True, I am "jealous" that I can't use this app:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/9179


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Zimphire
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Jan 8, 2004, 02:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
Ha ha ha. I think he is grumpy cuz he has a small wiener
\
Oooh he said I had a small weiner!



Want to try again?

     
deekay1
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Jan 8, 2004, 06:28 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have.
well, i can tell you one thing i'm not jealous about, and that's the judicial system over there.

while innocent before proven guilty is a cornerstone of most "free" and western oriented countries, this (in reality) certainly ISN'T practiced in the us (at least not the way i experienced it). you constantly feel you are in some kind of game trying not to be in any kind of "violation" (especially in college).

aside from that, i feel that i have a hell of a lot more real freedoms here in germany that i don't have in the us. and while over here things are becoming ever more "free", the us is becoming continuously restrictive (from what you hear and see).
( Last edited by deekay1; Jan 8, 2004 at 07:08 AM. )

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effgee
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Jan 8, 2004, 07:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
*raspberry* ... well that argument's about as slick as those who keep babbling on and on about how all Americans are (insert your favorite insult here). What freedoms and opportunities are we talking about here - mind naming one that you have and the citizens of - let's say - Liechtenstein, Sweden or Japan don't?
     
mitchell_pgh
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Jan 8, 2004, 09:01 AM
 
Having only lived in the US, I must admit that I'm tired of foreigners thinking that the USA >> IS << New York, LA and Hollywood. Growing up, I have numerous foreign exchange students stay in my neighborhood. When they got here, they thought that they would be living near a major city (wrong) They thought that there would be many wealthy people (not where I lived), They thought everyone would be rude and self-centered (and then they found out that most people are rather friendly).

I'll admit that our cities have problems, but you need to remember that more people live OUTSIDE our cities then inside. Also, most cities have "problem areas". Living in DC, nothing goes on in my area, but go 15 blocks away, and you don't go out at night.

As a foreign exchange student from France once said... "There is more to France then Paris"
     
Millennium
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Jan 8, 2004, 10:10 AM
 
Can we have a complain about America forum?
Isn't that what the Political/War Lounge is for?

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Misanthrope
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Jan 8, 2004, 10:17 AM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Having only lived in the US, I must admit that I'm tired of foreigners thinking that the USA >> IS << New York, LA and Hollywood. Growing up, I have numerous foreign exchange students stay in my neighborhood. When they got here, they thought that they would be living near a major city (wrong) They thought that there would be many wealthy people (not where I lived), They thought everyone would be rude and self-centered (and then they found out that most people are rather friendly).

I'll admit that our cities have problems, but you need to remember that more people live OUTSIDE our cities then inside. Also, most cities have "problem areas". Living in DC, nothing goes on in my area, but go 15 blocks away, and you don't go out at night.

As a foreign exchange student from France once said... "There is more to France then Paris"
This is the right answer.


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Judge_Fire
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Jan 8, 2004, 10:28 AM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
Most freedoms and opportunities you and I have are the same. The remaining different ones I might not trade with you, though.

J
     
mixin visuals
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Jan 8, 2004, 10:41 AM
 
Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Or maybe just a complain about America thread. I'd love to see how many posts something could get if all the America bitching in one place, plus the America vs. the world is starting to degrade other threads in the lounge, as they don't seem to want to bring it to politics.
complaining about america is the worlds most popular past time
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Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 10:57 AM
 
Originally posted by mixin visuals:
complaining about america is the worlds most popular past time
That's a bit arrogant of you, isn't it? I would have thought going down the pub and getting drunk or maybe a good game of Monopoly would weigh in as more popular.
Contrary to belief, the rest of the World doesn't spend all its time thinking about America.
     
davesimondotcom
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Jan 8, 2004, 11:00 AM
 


Exactly what I was going to post.
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mixin visuals
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Jan 8, 2004, 11:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Sherwin:
That's a bit arrogant of you, isn't it? I would have thought going down the pub and getting drunk or maybe a good game of Monopoly would weigh in as more popular.
Contrary to belief, the rest of the World doesn't spend all its time thinking about America.
i didn't say thinking, i said complaining.
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quandarry
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Jan 8, 2004, 11:51 AM
 
well the u.s. does have trailer parks and the patriot act and the constant orange alert, piss poor health care and i guess i could be jealous of that.



the fat american tourist in paris to his fat wife...''there sure are a lot of foreigners in this country!''
     
Zimphire
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:07 PM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
well the u.s. does have trailer parks

Right, because only America has low income housing.. Heh.

and the patriot act and the constant orange alert,

Which effects us about as much as .. oh wait, these things have never effected me.

piss poor health care and i guess i could be jealous of that.
Piss poor? I am not rich and don't have health care, but yet I get taken care of medically. And don't have to pay outrageous taxes and wait in long lines for operations.

Yeah how sucky!
     
Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:40 PM
 
Originally posted by mixin visuals:
i didn't say thinking, i said complaining.
And one often complains about something when one is not thinking about that something?

     
quandarry
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Sherwin:
And one often complains about something when one is not thinking about that something?

i think george bush does...but he shouldn't count i guess.
     
theolein
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Jan 8, 2004, 12:59 PM
 
You know what is really rich about this forum: I see more Americans complaining about people complaining about America than I see people complaining about America. Haven't you got anything better to do, like complain about France? Oh crap, you already did and now you need something else to complain about.
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disectamac
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:01 PM
 
For the complainers only ( i generally like foreigners):

All countries have their ups and downs. Do you think that the fact that you are exposed to and influenced by Amercian culture, in media, products, etc in other countries around the world might have something to do with the fact that you have a comment to air?

I'm sure if Korean or Russian or xxxxxian media was aired all around the world you might have 160 countries pointing your flaws too and you cant say you dont have them.

Complain if you want just make sure you stop at a McDonalds on your way home. Some of it might show up on my tax return or other form of goverment expenditure.


side note: I wasn't born in the U.S. , I live in the U.S., and I've traveled abroad.
     
Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
I see more Americans complaining about people complaining about America than I see people complaining about America.
     
jaiqua
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:32 PM
 
The other that irks me, is how we hear people defending the Patriot Act(s) by saying that it doesn't affect them, therefore must be benign. Well it affects lots of people, it affects the psychological nature of plenty in regards to their civil rights and country. The US is becoming a not so great place to live in, but if things continue like this, it definitely won't be in a number of years, which is exactly what people don't see by the way in which such bills are being slowly introduced, under the guise of security.
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gerbnl
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Kilbey:
Most people who complain about The United States of American are mostly jealous of what we have. The freedoms and opportunities that are offer to us here. Simple jealousy.
Simple jealousy huh? This year i'm going to have 382 hours (47,75 days!) of holidays. All paid! Do you really think i'd want to swap? Huhahahaha! Dunno exactly what freedom you are referring to. When i get to vote, i have a broad spectrum of political parties to choose from instead of two nearly identical ones.

I do't know what exactly you've been smoking, but much of your "freedom" is a beautiful illusion. Yes, beautiful! but an illusion nonetheless.

[edit: PS: oh, forgot to mention that i'm going to be sitting home, ill, for about 10 days this year, also paid]
( Last edited by gerbnl; Jan 8, 2004 at 01:48 PM. )
These people are Americans. Don't expect anything meaningful or... uh... normalcy...
     
quandarry
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:42 PM
 
Originally posted by jaiqua:
The other that irks me, is how we hear people defending the Patriot Act(s) by saying that it doesn't affect them, therefore must be benign.
no...zimphire, not benign.

some may get some may not...oh well.

     
gerbnl
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Jan 8, 2004, 01:45 PM
 
Originally posted by deekay1:
well, i can tell you one thing i'm not jealous about, and that's the judicial system over there.


Oh yeah! and that one too!
These people are Americans. Don't expect anything meaningful or... uh... normalcy...
     
Hinson
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Jan 8, 2004, 02:13 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Most people who go on and on about how everyone must be jealous of America usually have very little idea just how common the freedoms and opportunities Americans enjoy really are and that these freedoms and opportunities are, in fact, enjoyed by a great many people around the world.
The major differences, as I see the situation, are as follows:

America was literally founded on the notion that basic human freedom is an inherent part of our humanity (or, as I would put it, it is a God-given human attribute). According to that notion, no state or government gives you your freedom. Your freedom can be violated (justly or unjustly), but because it is an abstraction -- an ethereal attribute -- it cannot be taken from you. Since no one can remove that sort of freedom from others, the respect we show for such freedom is embodied by how and when we allow it to be violated. What then can we consider a justified violation of freedom if we are based on respecting that freedom? The answer is that to justly violate another personís freedom while upholding our basic principles, that violation must ultimately be needed to protect a more justified freedom (e.g., I canít be allowed to swing my arms however I wish if doing so causes harm to your face).

Such an ideology places the protection of personal freedoms at the pinnacle of political philosophy, above theocracy, above collectivism, above the will of the majority, etc. Each such ideology can involve some level of personal freedom, but our ideology claims that protection of personal freedom must be the foremost principle of a truly just society.

Now, obviously not every American ďgetsĒ this concept or realizes how the ideology of personal freedom (as a general idea) was part of our formation, but it has a fundamental presence in our culture and our views of government. In general we tend to accept greater risk for the price of individual freedom, though we certainly have to try to achieve a balance in order to justly protect all freedoms. We have a strong individualist spirit. We hold very strongly to our rights--especially those spelled out in our constitution--and many will fight any attempt to infringe on them.

Yes, many, many other countries embrace the basic idea of human rights and personal freedom, and any government that upholds these ideals does so only to a point. However, I think that one of the major differences is that Americaís very foundation says you take that point as far as you can possibly go. Ideally, you only limit such freedoms when _not_ doing so allows unjust violation of other such freedoms. In reality, we have no ďword from on highĒ to which we can all agree and that tells us just when that point is met, and so we make such decisions democratically (which is the most justified way of making such decisions if you believe every individual has the same rights and therefore should have the same amount of say in the process).

It looks a lot like other forms of democracy, but at its core, it holds to a very specific philosophy that makes America America.

Well, thatís the way I see it.


-Jay


P.S. Just to bring this down to earth a bit: Above Iím taking about fundamental ideology. In reality, America has never really lived up to its idealistic standards, and in fact, justly protecting basic freedom is such a complex task that just how well weíre doing is always going to be somewhat subjective in various ways. However, itís the presence of that ideology in our culture and mindset that makes something of a difference. I love this country, and Iím sure thatís colored by the fact that I was born here. Still, objectively thereís something a little different. Some may see that as a good thing and some may see it as a bad thing about America. I see it as good, and Iím certainly proud to be part of America in that respect.

P.P.S. Sorry for the long post... guess this really should be in the Political forum.
     
effgee
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Jan 8, 2004, 02:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Hinson:
America was literally founded on the notion that basic human freedom is an inherent part of our humanity
<blackhumor>
The United States of America was founded by a bunch of slave owners who wanted to be free and believed that everyone should have the right to vote - except for women, Native Americans and African Americans ...
</blackhumor >

     
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Jan 8, 2004, 03:48 PM
 
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Jayznkelc
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Jan 8, 2004, 03:57 PM
 
Seems to me that everybody that is complaining about America, is taking a view that the overseas media shows. You say we have crappy health care, our freedoms are being stripped away, and we are a bunch of rednecks that want to bomb and rule the world. Being in American living in England, and I have seen how different the media over here reports the news than it is reported in the American media. There is a sense of America, the big dumb idiot country with bombs, in the media over here. It's worse outside the UK though. It's funny that about half is news over here is about America.

I guess someone could make the same arguement about the American media, and I'd propably say your right. Everybody knows, or should know, the media blows everything out of proportion. The Patriot Act, blown out of proportion. The Color Coded Threat System and Orange Alert, blown out of proportion.

So you judge us by what you see on TV? Or your two week vaction in New York? How can you really judge America, or any American by this? Very few Americans called their french frys, freedom frys, that was some lame politics. But I'm sure that was reported as some huge slap in the face of the French by 'Americans'

So whatever. You're going to judge every American or even the majority of Americans (the whole, 'well, not all americans' arguement isn't going to work here) by what you see on TV? I'm sure this arguement isn't going to change a thing. Just remember this over your next stop at McDonalds or KFC.

I can't wait to get back to America, and enjoy my two lane (or three of four) roads, shops that are open past 5 p.m., and not taxed for my TV. Anyways, in conclusion, bite me. Sorry for the rant.
     
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:01 PM
 
Originally posted by kertong:
I was born in Korea, and lived there until I was 6 before I came over to the US. So, I like to think that I have a pretty good understanding as to how different two cultures can be.

The american culture has its good points, as well as its bad. The bad ones are pretty glaring though. More than half the women over 30 here seem pasty and overweight, and we're known for our frivolous lawsuits. We're crude, barbaric, beer-swilling, banjo totin' Americans. Our 3 largest coastal cities of Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco are known for their drive-by shootings, crime, and flaming transvestites.
"I was born in the U.S. and moved to Korea when I was 6. So, I like to think that I have a pretty good understanding as to how different two cultures can be.

Korean culture has its good points, as well as its bad. The bad ones are pretty glaring though. More than half the women here are short and most are naturally anorexic with bad teeth, and we're known for our car exports. We're snobby, money-grubbing, beer-swilling Koreans. Our 3 largest coastal cities are known for their child labour, crime, and setting homsexuals on fire, because we're homophobic besides just being very, very patriarchal."


None of the above is true, but that's what your post looked like to me. Ethnocentric. Like this ridiculous thread.
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gerbnl
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:04 PM
 
Originally posted by effgee:
<blackhumor>
The United States of America was founded by a bunch of slave owners who wanted to be free and believed that everyone should have the right to vote - except for women, Native Americans and African Americans ...
</blackhumor >

Speaking of Indians... how about the audacity of genociding an entire people and then making a toyindustry partly based on plastic versions of the murdered subjects? Hmmmm?



And now that you are letting this sink in, i might add that children in germany, never had, at any point in their lives, boxes of plastic jews to play with.
These people are Americans. Don't expect anything meaningful or... uh... normalcy...
     
vcutag
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Which effects us about as much as .. oh wait, these things have never effected me.
"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -Martin Niemoller
     
Sherwin
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
So you judge us by what you see on TV? Or your two week vaction in New York? How can you really judge America, or any American by this? Very few Americans called their french frys, freedom frys, that was some lame politics. But I'm sure that was reported as some huge slap in the face of the French by 'Americans'
Nope. We're just confused as to why you call them "French" fries in the first place, seeing as they were invented in Belgium.

The "freedom" fries thing was just piling more stupidity onto already existing stupidity.

Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
I can't wait to get back to America,
If you feel that way, we can't wait for you to go back.

Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
and enjoy my two lane (or three of four) roads,
Read as: I need wide roads because I can't drive properly.

Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
shops that are open past 5 p.m
So which bit of English wilderness are you living in then that they close up at 5?

Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
Anyways, in conclusion, bite me.
No thanks. Your fat content is way too high.

     
benb
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:21 PM
 
Originally posted by gerbnl:
Speaking of Indians... how about the audacity of genociding an entire people
Let's not forget the Brits in Africa, India, and Australia. Nor the French in Asia. Or the Spanish in Central and South America. Or the Portuguese in Brazil. Or the Romans in "Germany" and "Britain". Or the Greeks, or the Persians, or the Egyptians, or the Chinese, or the Serbs, or the Mongolians, and everybody else.

Maybe it could just be that ALL HUMANS SUCK AT BEING NICE TO OTHER HUMANS, as history has shown us over and over and over.
     
jaiqua
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Let's not forget the Brits in Africa, India, and Australia. Nor the French in Asia. Or the Spanish in Central and South America. Or the Portuguese in Brazil. Or the Romans in "Germany" and "Britain". Or the Greeks, or the Persians, or the Egyptians, or the Chinese, or the Serbs, or the Mongolians, and everybody else.

Maybe it could just be that ALL HUMANS SUCK AT BEING NICE TO OTHER HUMANS, as history has shown us over and over and over.
Yeah, but it only in America do they have a film and toy industry still glorifying a past genocide.
the navajo know
     
gerbnl
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:28 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Maybe it could just be that ALL HUMANS SUCK AT BEING NICE TO OTHER HUMANS, as history has shown us over and over and over.


AHEM!

stay on-topic please! we are bashing americans in this thread!
These people are Americans. Don't expect anything meaningful or... uh... normalcy...
     
benb
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:30 PM
 
Originally posted by jaiqua:
Yeah, but it only in America do they have a film and toy industry still glorifying a past genocide.
Still? Got any recent, say within the past 20 years, cartoons, movies, or toys to back that up?

Have you ever seen any old westerns anyway? Most were not Cowboy vs. Indians.
     
benb
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Jan 8, 2004, 04:31 PM
 
Originally posted by gerbnl:
stay on-topic please! we are bashing americans in this thread!
Oh, sorry. I promise I will stop derailing this topic. My bad!

     
 
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