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"_____" while black (Page 10)
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OAW
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Apr 28, 2021, 04:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNNFamous View Post
Just make payouts to police victims come out of their pensions. Problem will solve itself.
This! As long as taxpayers have to foot the bill for police brutality settlements then police departments and unions will continue to protect rogue cops with impunity. But let them have to pay such settlements out of their own pockets and we will start to see them pushing out the bad actors.

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subego
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Apr 29, 2021, 05:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Our "sense of fairness" is colored by the society we grew up in. Which, again, was founded specifically on racist ideas and notions, and the history of our society has been one that tries its absolute hardest to uphold those ideas and notions. So I'm hesitant to draw on some nebulous notion of "fairness."
I’m using the idea of fairness very concretely, I’m just not communicating it well.

I bring up fairness because my proposal is inherently unfair. For all intents and purposes, my proposal is no different from paying thugs running a protection racket. To me, there’s not even a question of whether this should violate our sense of fairness. It quite obviously does.

I’m only trying to get a sense of how much of a road block this is to you, because there are plenty of reasoned arguments it should be a road block.
     
Laminar
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Apr 29, 2021, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m using the idea of fairness very concretely, I’m just not communicating it well.

I bring up fairness because my proposal is inherently unfair. For all intents and purposes, my proposal is no different from paying thugs running a protection racket. To me, there’s not even a question of whether this should violate our sense of fairness. It quite obviously does.

I’m only trying to get a sense of how much of a road block this is to you, because there are plenty of reasoned arguments it should be a road block.
Okay, I think I see what you're saying. My opposition to blindly increasing pay isn't based on the idea being unfair (at least I don't think it is). It's more because I believe we could achieve better results through other means. Yes, you could put $1000 in a savings account and earn 0.01%, or you could stick it in the mutual fund with a 20 year return of 8%. It's not about fairness, it's about maximizing results.
     
subego
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Apr 29, 2021, 07:15 PM
 
I wouldn’t dream of enacting that blindly. It would need hard data to back it up. Likewise, I’m not offering it as a complete solution in and of itself. Lots of things to be done which cost no money.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 29, 2021, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I wouldn’t dream of enacting that blindly. It would need hard data to back it up. Likewise, I’m not offering it as a complete solution in and of itself. Lots of things to be done which cost no money.
I think rather than paying people more, you can also take a different approach by pairing cops up. I noticed that at least in some regions cops are by themselves, and if they scare easily, it‘d be better if they worked in pairs. I’m not sure higher pay is the first item on the list, though, at least not directly. I‘d actually suggest to add funds to different agencies and organizations (e. g. social workers) so that they can do jobs that are in many places currently covered by law enforcement. Dealing with domestic struggles and drug addicts comes to mind. Traffic violations could also be treated by someone else — and police departments‘s budgets should not be funded from fines or seizures (asset forfeiture laws in the US are plain nuts and I don‘t understand why especially conservatives don‘t make bigger hay of this — it isn‘t just about the 2A or 1A, the 4A needs some love, too).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Apr 30, 2021, 01:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I I‘d actually suggest to add funds to different agencies and organizations (e. g. social workers) so that they can do jobs that are in many places currently covered by law enforcement. Dealing with domestic struggles and drug addicts comes to mind.
So I know what you’re imagining, give me a scenario where one of these new types of first responders would be dispatched instead of a cop.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 30, 2021, 02:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So I know what you’re imagining, give me a scenario where one of these new types of first responders would be dispatched instead of a cop.
These aren't first responders, social workers become part of the community.
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subego
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Apr 30, 2021, 06:56 AM
 
How are these social workers dispatched to the problem?
     
Laminar
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Apr 30, 2021, 09:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think rather than paying people more, you can also take a different approach by pairing cops up. I noticed that at least in some regions cops are by themselves, and if they scare easily, it‘d be better if they worked in pairs.
Research shows it's the other way around. Officers in pairs are more like to act quickly, impulsively, and more boldly. Officers acting alone are more cautious and will allow more time for a situation to deescalate while waiting for backup to arrive.
     
Thorzdad
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Jul 31, 2021, 11:52 AM
 
     
OAW
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Aug 10, 2021, 04:27 PM
 
Embezzlement Sentencing While Black ....

While the above headline may seem incendiary, it is important not to draw false equivalencies because all criminal cases are not equal. For example, in this specific story, two women—one Black, one white—were convicted of the exact same crime. However, the two cases are not the same. One is worse than the other.

According to the Plain Dealer, On August 2, former Chagrin Falls, Ohio Village Clerk Debbie Bosworth pleaded no contest to 22 counts of theft in office, tampering with records and money laundering after auditors discovered she had embezzled more than $238,000 over the span of 20 years. The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor’s Office rejected the 53-year-old Bosworth’s plea and asked a judge to sentence her to prison, even though she wrote a check for $100,000 to repay part of her debt when her scheme was uncovered.

But Bosworth is white, as is Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Hollie Gallagher. And in the history of America, there isn’t one documented case of a “Hollie” sending a “Debbie” to prison (yes, we actually checked). So, Gallagher, citing the fact that Bosworth paid back some of the money she stole, sentenced her fellow white woman to two years probation, much to the chagrin of Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Michael O’Malley, who issued a statement saying he found the sentence “to be unacceptable in that he believes public employees who steal from taxpayers should go to prison.”

The very next day, Assistant Cuyahoga County Prosecutor James Gutierrez—the same assistant district attorney who prosecuted Bosworth—recommended a prison sentence for 51-year-old former school secretary Karla Hopkins for stealing $40,000 from Maple Heights High School. Although Hopkins appeared before the exact same court, Hopkins’ judge was a white man, Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Rick Bell. Unlike Bosworth, Gallagher pleaded guilty. Unlike Bosworth, Hopkins was only charged with one count of theft in office. Unlike Bosworth, Hopkins had already found a new job, completed an in-patient program for her gambling addiction and had promised to repay the money she stole.

The Plain Dealer reports:

Hopkins told Bell that she emptied her pension — she didn’t know how much was in it but said, after taxes, she received about $20,000 — to pay her bills after the school fired her. Her attorney, Bret Jordan, said that she began stealing the money while dealing with mental health issues and her gambling addiction but has since gotten treatment and gone through a job placement program. In the meantime, she came up with $5,000 to pay toward her restitution.

Assistant Cuyahoga County Prosecutor James Gutierrez, like Brydle did with Bosworth, sought a prison sentence for Hopkins. He told Bell that the state would be fine with a sentence of between nine and 12 months.

Bell scolded Hopkins for taking her pension money, and sentenced her to 18 months in prison — six more months than Gutierrez requested.
Neither judge could comment on their sentences but Cleveland activists immediately decried the disparity in the two sentences. The white woman committed more crimes, over a longer period of time. She stole more money than the Black woman. She had 21 more charges and cost taxpayers six times more money. She was facing 60 years in prison while the Black woman’s maximum sentence was three years. Yet the Black woman received more prison time than prosecutors wanted her to spend in jail.

“I think it reinforces the lack of trust in the justice system,” said Danielle Sydnor, president of Cleveland’s NAACP chapter. “These types of things are the way the system was designed, and they will continue to happen if we don’t have large-scale reform.”

Nationwide, Black people convicted of crimes received 20 percent longer sentences than similarly situated whites who commit the same offenses, according to the U.S. Sentencing Commission. In Ohio, the state’s Black residents are imprisoned at 6 times the rate of Ohio’s white residents, according to the Sentencing Project. In 1999, a report from the Commission on Racial Fairness found that Black Ohioans are sentenced to prison at grossly disproportionate rates compared to their white counterparts. The study, requested by the Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court, determined that “the consensus of the available research acknowledges that minorities are more frequently sentenced to prison and generally receive harsher penalties than do whites.

In 2020, a different Ohio Supreme Court Justice, along with the Ohio Sentencing Commission, launched a push to create the Ohio Sentencing Data Platform, which would collect data from the state’s criminal courts. The judges could voluntarily use the database to show the average sentences for similar cases instead of depending on their own individual perceptions. However, many judges in the state refused to even sign up for the program, citing the need for judicial discretion.

Of the 34 Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court’s judges, only ten said they plan to use the program, six of whom are serving their first term.

Cuyahoga County has the highest percentage of Black residents in Ohio.
Ohio Court Sentences Black Woman to 18 Months in Prison the Day After Giving White Woman Probation for Same Crime | TheRoot.com

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Thorzdad
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Aug 10, 2021, 05:37 PM
 
I wish I could say I’m shocked by this, but, sadly, it’s just another day in american jurisprudence.
     
andi*pandi
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Aug 10, 2021, 08:45 PM
 
reprehensible.
     
reader50
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Sep 29, 2021, 01:31 PM
 
OK, this is a bit different. For starters the cops are on the right side this time.

Summary: a Black family moved into a new home *. A neighbor has extensive security cameras, and has tied them into a sound system. When members of the family arrive or depart, sound tracks are played. Careful reading of the story suggests other neighbors get sound effects too, but the Black family gets the lion's share. The city hasn't figured out how to charge the guy. Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia.
... Martinez, who is Black, says a neighbor's music, racial slurs, blinking lights and monkey sounds have made her family's lives miserable.
...
Martinez added that there are multiple cameras on his house.
"We are all on surveillance 24/7 with cameras in every direction of his home," she said.
...
Following recent phone calls to the local police by the Martinez family complaining about the noise and the lights, Martinez says the neighbor's actions escalated.
"Since that day he's been playing N----- skits that he found online," she said. Martinez said he plays skits that say, "Black people have nothing better to do but go to a comedy club on a Friday night," and, "Hey everyone, look it's N----- guy. Everyone say, 'hi N----- guy.'"
...
Police told CNN said they are "acutely aware of the ongoing situation."
"The observed conduct has been reviewed with the City Attorney for potential criminal sanctions; however, it was determined that the activity, though appalling, is not criminally actionable," the Virginia Beach Police Department said in a statement.
Harassment comes to mind. Perhaps the city could place cameras and mics of their own, and observe over a period of time. To show the Black family is clearly targeted. That would also record the sound levels. If he makes even one mistake, exceeding city noise thresholds, they'd have something to work with. In the meantime, he'd have to endure the 24/7 cameras himself.

* Correction - the family moved in 5 years ago. The neighbor escalated gradually since then.
( Last edited by reader50; Sep 29, 2021 at 08:33 PM. )
     
Thorzdad
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Sep 29, 2021, 02:30 PM
 
I somehow don't think the police would be so "our hands are tied" if the tables were turned and the black home owner started broadcasting racial epithets at the white home owner. I think you'd see the swift hand of justice come down on them immediately.
     
OAW
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Sep 29, 2021, 02:51 PM
 
I've got to agree. This is clearly targeted racial harassment. As much as black people get arrested for "Peace Disturbance" ... aka what cops charge you with when they want to flex and arrest you anyway even when they have no grounds to do so ... surely they can get this guy on something similar.

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andi*pandi
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Sep 29, 2021, 03:20 PM
 
that's some kind of bs. invasion of privacy, harassment, noise...

even if the noises were as innocent as the happy birthday song it would still be annoying as hell.

I'm also sure a guy like this has a telephoto lens on their house so he knows what they had for supper or are watching on tv.
     
subego
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Sep 29, 2021, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Harassment comes to mind.
Harassment wouldn’t work if I understand Virginia law correctly. There needs to be either a threat of injury, or use of private information.

For what it’s escalated to, this isn’t the case if the intended destination had been an electronic device. Can’t do this over the phone, texts, Internet, or even CB radio.
     
reader50
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Sep 29, 2021, 04:57 PM
 
Some news video was more specific as to the location. Noisy neighbor:

2001 Jassamine Court, Virginia Beach, VA 23456

You can load it via Google Earth and Street View - the house matches the one reporters visited in the video. The CNN picture is looking across the lawn of the noisy neighbor, with the edge of his/her house on left side of picture.

Source - play the video embedded in their story. You get the street corner sign, with correctly-spelled road names. A reporter rings the door of the noisy neighbor, whose street number is posted above the door.

2nd source for street address.
     
 
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