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Moore: New Liberal Intellectual
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Orion27
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Jun 26, 2004, 10:05 AM
 
by David Brooks New York Times 6/26/04

Like Hemingway, Moore does his boldest thinking while abroad. For example, it was during an interview with the British paper The Mirror that Moore unfurled what is perhaps the central insight of his oeuvre, that Americans are kind of crappy.

"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy]," Moore intoned. "We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."

Before a delighted Cambridge crowd, Moore reflected on the tragedy of human existence: "You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe." In Liverpool, he paused to contemplate the epicenters of evil in the modern world: "It's all part of the same ball of wax, right? The oil companies, Israel, Halliburton."

In an open letter to the German people in Die Zeit, Moore asked, "Should such an ignorant people lead the world?" Then he began to reflect on things economic. His central insight here is that the American economy, like its people, is pretty crappy, too: "Don't go the American way when it comes to economics, jobs and services for the poor and immigrants. It is the wrong way.

In an interview with a Japanese newspaper, Moore helped citizens of that country understand why the United States went to war in Iraq: "The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich."

But venality doesn't come up when he writes about those who are killing Americans in Iraq: "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not `insurgents' or `terrorists' or `The Enemy.' They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow � and they will win." Until then, few social observers had made the connection between Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Paul Revere.

With friends like these who needs enemies?
     
PacHead
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Jun 26, 2004, 11:26 AM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
by David Brooks New York Times 6/26/04

Like Hemingway, Moore does his boldest thinking while abroad. For example, it was during an interview with the British paper The Mirror that Moore unfurled what is perhaps the central insight of his oeuvre, that Americans are kind of crappy.

"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy]," Moore intoned. "We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."

Before a delighted Cambridge crowd, Moore reflected on the tragedy of human existence: "You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe." In Liverpool, he paused to contemplate the epicenters of evil in the modern world: "It's all part of the same ball of wax, right? The oil companies, Israel, Halliburton."

In an open letter to the German people in Die Zeit, Moore asked, "Should such an ignorant people lead the world?" Then he began to reflect on things economic. His central insight here is that the American economy, like its people, is pretty crappy, too: "Don't go the American way when it comes to economics, jobs and services for the poor and immigrants. It is the wrong way.

In an interview with a Japanese newspaper, Moore helped citizens of that country understand why the United States went to war in Iraq: "The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich."

But venality doesn't come up when he writes about those who are killing Americans in Iraq: "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not `insurgents' or `terrorists' or `The Enemy.' They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow � and they will win." Until then, few social observers had made the connection between Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Paul Revere.

With friends like these who needs enemies?
The dude is a traitor, and his comments are despicable.

     
Sod Off Sadr
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Jun 26, 2004, 12:08 PM
 
Loser. If he's so keen on the US losing in Iraq and elsewhere, he should go and fight. Let's see how those 'revolutionaries' treat him. Not as kindly as he does them, I bet.
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Joshua
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Jun 26, 2004, 12:13 PM
 
Calling Moore an intellectual is a bit generous.
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Orion27  (op)
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Jun 26, 2004, 12:35 PM
 
Calling all Moore supporters, where are you? Cowards!
     
Nicko
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Jun 26, 2004, 12:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Calling all Moore supporters, where are you? Cowards!

The movie has an 84% rating on rottentomatoes

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/

The movie will rake in millions for the cause. No need to defend it.
     
spauldingg
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Jun 26, 2004, 02:29 PM
 
The movie will rake in millions for the cause. No need to defend it.
Millions of dollars for Moores bank account, or millions of "switchers" for Kerry's cause?
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BlackGriffen
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Jun 26, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Calling all Moore supporters, where are you? Cowards!
He's an @ss just like Coulter and Limbaugh. Only difference is Moore is an elitist @ss about intellectual things, whereas Coulter and Limbaugh are elitist about other things (like morality).

:shrug:

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Jun 26, 2004, 03:24 PM
 
Perhaps the greatest thing about this country is that Moore is free to hold whatever opinion he wants. He's even free to make a movie or write a book about. And he's free to get rich from all the people that want to hear what he has to say.

I love this country.

You're free to hate him. Free to write your own angry books and make your own angry movies. You're even free to call him names.

But anyone what wants to actually take that freedom away is the real traitor and should be summarily shot.
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itai195
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Jun 26, 2004, 03:50 PM
 
It's funny he'd make these comments when, as several reviewers have pointed out, he constantly appeals to low-brow humor and political discourse within his latest film. Anyway, he's got the right to say whatever he wants, and you have the right to not purchase his products.
     
Atomic Rooster
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Jun 26, 2004, 04:00 PM
 
Another Moore thread? The fascists are getting really scared and crapping their shorts over a fat dumb white guy. Hmm...must be something to this guy after all.

Desperation has set in.

     
Sod Off Sadr
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Jun 26, 2004, 08:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
Another Moore thread? The fascists are getting really scared and crapping their shorts over a fat dumb white guy. Hmm...must be something to this guy after all.

Desperation has set in.

yeah, that's it. Desperation. Uh-huh.
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Jun 26, 2004, 08:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Sod Off Sadr:
yeah, that's it. Desperation. Uh-huh.
Takes a strong person to admit they've been wrong.

Good show dead guy!

     
saab95
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:22 PM
 
Originally posted by spauldingg:
Millions of dollars for Moores bank account, or millions of "switchers" for Kerry's cause?
Millions of dollars so that Moore, who benefits greatly from working within the capitalist system, can continue to bash capitalism.

Moore is a big fat piece of work.
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saab95
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:24 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
[B]Perhaps the greatest thing about this country is that Moore is free to hold whatever opinion he wants. He's even free to make a movie or write a book about. And he's free to get rich from all the people that want to hear what he has to say.
Too bad he sees fit to bash the very system that allows him to do that.

But anyone what wants to actually take that freedom away is the real traitor and should be summarily shot.
Doesn't change the true nature of Moore's hypocrisy.
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By the way, I defend capitalists, not gangsters ;)
     
greenamp
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Nicko:
The movie has an 84% rating on rottentomatoes

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/

The movie will rake in millions for the cause. No need to defend it.
What cause? MM pockets his profits.
     
Dr.HermanG.
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:53 PM
 
Originally posted by saab95:
Moore is a big fat...
Just big and fat. Looks like a dead bloated pig.
     
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Jun 29, 2004, 11:00 AM
 
Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
He's an @ss just like Coulter and Limbaugh. Only difference is Moore is an elitist @ss about intellectual things, whereas Coulter and Limbaugh are elitist about other things (like morality).
Another difference is that more people listen to Rush during a 15-minute span than saw Moore's movie the entire opening weekend.
     
Millennium
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Jun 29, 2004, 01:02 PM
 
Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
He's an @ss just like Coulter and Limbaugh. Only difference is Moore is an elitist @ss about intellectual things, whereas Coulter and Limbaugh are elitist about other things (like morality).
No, they don't even have that difference. All of them are elitist about morality, and they all want you to think they're elitist about intellectual things.

Really, all Moore wants to do is push his morality onto others. He's a master of disguising this as intellectualism, but it's not all that hard to see through.
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Orion27  (op)
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:15 PM
 
Moore is a pimp for the enemies of this country. There is no other way to explain why he does what he does.
     
Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:34 PM
 
So, to be an "intellectual" I have to put on 200lbs, cater to the "beautiful" people, and make a living off of half-truths and lies which cater to those same people?


I see...
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:35 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
The dude is a traitor, and his comments are despicable.
Yeah, anybody who dissents is a traitor...we've heard it before, just like all the republicans in the 90's who voted to impeach...traitors, every one.
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Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:39 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:

But anyone what wants to actually take that freedom away is the real traitor and should be summarily shot.
No, I just think he'd look better with an apple in his mouth, over a low burning fire, while turning on a spit.


"what was that you said Mr. Moore?"

"Oink! Oink!!"

"that's what I thought you said."
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Moore is a pimp for the enemies of this country. There is no other way to explain why he does what he does.
Which enemies?
     
bleuvixen
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:45 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
No, I just think he'd look better with an apple in his mouth, over a low burning fire, while turning on a spit.


"what was that you said Mr. Moore?"

"Oink! Oink!!"

"that's what I thought you said."
How awesomely childish. Good job making yourself look petty.
     
Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by bleuvixen:
How awesomely childish. Good job making yourself look petty.
Why thank you! I feel so proud. *sniff* *sniff*
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Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
Which enemies?
The Rainbow vacuum salesmen.
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Millennium
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:57 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, to be an "intellectual" I have to put on 200lbs, cater to the "beautiful" people, and make a living off of half-truths and lies which cater to those same people?


I see...
It worked for Rush, and it worked for Moore. They just have slightly different definitions of "beautiful"; all else proceeds from there.
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phoenixboy70
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:05 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, to be an "intellectual" I have to put on 200lbs, cater to the "beautiful" people, and make a living off of half-truths and lies which cater to those same people?
since when did limbaugh start catering to "beautiful people".
     
Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:07 PM
 
Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
since when did limbaugh start catering to "beautiful people".
When Moore ate his mother.
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itai195
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:10 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
The Rainbow vacuum salesmen.


No, seriously, which enemies? Europeans?
     
phoenixboy70
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:11 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
When Moore ate his mother.
oh, is that why he's so pi553d at liberals?
     
Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:18 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:


No, seriously, which enemies? Europeans?
Sure, why not?

Actually, I was just making a smartassed quip. Wasn't intending on taking it any farther.
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Shaddim
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:19 PM
 
Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
oh, is that why he's so pi553d at liberals?
That and the whole bra burning thingy... now all the women of his era have saggy jugs.
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:20 PM
 
Uh�It will rake in millions to the anti-capitalist Moore who lives in a luxuriously appointed abode in Manhattan. Hypocrite?

And Mike Moore isn't smart. He's a drop out. And he's fat, but you already know that.
He doesn't even have intelligence to fall back on like Chomsky. Just his fat ass.
     
itai195
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:26 PM
 
Ahh the old characterization of liberals as rich, intellectual types. You Republicans/convervatives really have gotten good at the class warfare game, I have to admit.

There are a lot of smart people who dropped out of school, BTW.
     
Tater Salad
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:37 PM
 
So I'm a rich, evil, conservative, eh?
My mother is a waiterss making minimum wage.
I'm rich!
It is not a characterization, I'm just pointing out that for all of the talk and look of being the "proletariat", he sure lives in a purty home.

And, let's see: Most college professors in polls are FAR more to the left than to the right. They also get paid fairly well. Look at George Soros. Bankrupted Malaysia's currency, and he's a rich communist. Funny?
     
itai195
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Tater Salad:
So I'm a rich, evil, conservative, eh?
My mother is a waiterss making minimum wage.
I'm rich!
It is not a characterization, I'm just pointing out that for all of the talk and look of being the "proletariat", he sure lives in a purty home.
And I'm just pointing out that Republicans have done a great job of twisting economic realities into making themselves the party of the lower class, at least in middle America. It's kind of obscene IMO, but that's me.

Who said anything about professors? Your sig says you hate them, yet you're saying Moore isn't smart because he dropped out???
     
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:45 PM
 
Proffesors are eltists.
Michael Moore is stupid.
I have to go to college, even though I hate them. He should have too.

Oh, and that whole "cut taxes thing" might help people get more money in their pocket, which is important to the middle class.
Raising taxes, aka liberalism, only strains more on the workers who have to pay more and keep less
     
itai195
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Jun 30, 2004, 03:50 PM
 
The middle class largely gets screwed out of any significant tax cuts anyway. That's why all the talk of cutting taxes is pretty much gibberish. Besides that, they have more concerns than just tax cuts -- things like education and healthcare, for example.

Anyway next time you make a post critical of professors and labeling some people as stupid, you may want to run it through a spellchecker
     
saab95
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Jul 1, 2004, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
The middle class largely gets screwed out of any significant tax cuts anyway. That's why all the talk of cutting taxes is pretty much gibberish. Besides that, they have more concerns than just tax cuts -- things like......
Absolutely false.

I'm in the 29% bracket and we got tens of thousands in tax refunds thanks to Bush's tax cuts, since they were enacted.

Speak for yourself, not the middle class.
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alphasubzero949
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Jul 2, 2004, 01:37 AM
 
Speaking of college dropouts, let's not forget about Rush either.


I'm enjoying the antics in this thread. I feel like I'm watching a schoolyard fight between a democrat and republican.

"Liberals are traitors."
"Moore's a dropout. Neener neener."
"Oh yeah? Clinton screwed an intern."
"Bush sniffed coke."
     
ambush
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Jul 2, 2004, 02:30 AM
 
Originally posted by Tater Salad:
So I'm a rich, evil, conservative, eh?
My mother is a waiterss making minimum wage.
I'm rich!
It is not a characterization, I'm just pointing out that for all of the talk and look of being the "proletariat", he sure lives in a purty home.

And, let's see: Most college professors in polls are FAR more to the left than to the right. They also get paid fairly well. Look at George Soros. Bankrupted Malaysia's currency, and he's a rich communist. Funny?
OK.

I bet "communist kids" bullied you when you were a kid.

Is that it?
     
ambush
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Jul 2, 2004, 02:32 AM
 
Originally posted by Tater Salad:
Oh, and that whole "cut taxes thing" might help people get more money in their pocket, which is important to the middle class.
Raising taxes, aka liberalism, only strains more on the workers who have to pay more and keep less
How bright of you.

Can you teach me economy? You're too good.
     
   
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