[Atheist]

Originally Posted by starman 

And yet 300 million people disagree.

What a silly statement... you've asked them all? If those 300 million people had been taught in school that DD/MM/YYYY was the correct way, they would say MM/DD/YYYY is silly.

My vote is YYYY/MM/DD ... but it's personal preference. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Why must everyone politicize everything?

[RevEvs]

Originally Posted by Space1999 

I don't understand what everyone is bitchin' about. Why not just make the change in the date & time system preferences?

1) Welcome to the forum
2) Read the posts in future

This is about the online webmail. THe setting in system prefs does not effect it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

It's not American "arrogance", it a simple way of getting the most important information first, just like I said with reading left to right.

How is month the MOST important information ?
All three pieces of information are necessary to pinpoint an exact date.

And when it comes to CURRENT dates, DAY is more important to me than month. I usually know what month I'm in. Do you not ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

And yet 300 million people disagree.

Are you trying to make an argument saying that 300M is a LOT of people ?

My answer is:
People, eat more sh!t. Millions of flies can't be wrong

In all other cases (recognizing that 300M is not a lot in light of 6 billion people), I'd say that Amaraca is already a minority, maybe for a REASON

-t

[starman]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

How is month the MOST important information ?
All three pieces of information are necessary to pinpoint an exact date.

And when it comes to CURRENT dates, DAY is more important to me than month. I usually know what month I'm in. Do you not ?

-t

And if someone was talking about an even happening a few months from now, wouldn't the MONTH be the most important?

[Oisín]

Writing numbers != writing dates. You can't compare the two. How silly.

Of course you can compare them. They obey the same basic rules of numeric values and information. So does time measurement, addresses, program versions, and a whole bunch of other things.

Originally Posted by starman 

Stratus makes a good point, one I should have made myself. Month = "major", day = "minor", year = superfluous. Whether year goes on the left or right is irrelevant.

That depends on context. As has been said already, year can be superfluous in some contexts, yet critical in others. The same goes for day and month. If I ask when Columbus reached America, chances are I’m probably looking for the answer, “1492”, not “8 October” (or whenever it is). If I ask when I get paid, chances are I’m looking for the answer, “On the 31st”, not “October 2006”.

Oisin, your analogy of writing 125 as 152 is flawed, it would be more direct if you had the version number 10.4.7 as 4.7.10 or 7.4.10. Now, if I were Steve Jobs, I'd say it was 10.4.7. Major.minor.rev.

You’re right, that is a better analogy. So why is it, then, that you’re saying that 4.7.10 would be the more logical?

10 = year.
4 = month
7 = day

It's not American "arrogance", it a simple way of getting the most important information first, just like I said with reading left to right.

I never said it was arrogance (someone else did). It’s neither of what you say, actually: it’s a reflection in writing of how it is most commonly said in speech in American English. And that’s fine. Just don’t say that it’s inherently more logical than other ways of writing it, when it’s not: it’s just as arbitrary as any other form, and in addition, it doesn’t adhere to the very loosely defined ‘rules’ that govern such numbers in most other respects.

[kennethmac2000]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

Are you trying to make an argument saying that 300M is a LOT of people ?

My answer is:
People, eat more sh!t. Millions of flies can't be wrong

In all other cases (recognizing that 300M is not a lot in light of 6 billion people), I'd say that Amaraca is already a minority, maybe for a REASON

-t

Hear, hear!

The majority of the world write their dates in an ordered format. The US is in an extreme minority.

Unless of course you think Americans are so much more important and civilized than the rest of the world that their opinion counts for more than the other 95pc of the planet!?!?

ISO have defined a perfectly good date standard which involves writing the year first, the month next and then the day, with hyphens delimiting the three, ie, 2006-10-27. Why doesn't everyone just start using that? (I already do.)

[starman]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Of course you can compare them. They obey the same basic rules of numeric values and information. So does time measurement, addresses, program versions, and a whole bunch of other things.

So you're saying that:

Americans = little endian
Europe = big endian

?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by starman 

Writing numbers != writing dates. You can't compare the two. How silly.

Well, you know, my entire bookkeeping is based on month/year, so I guess month/year is a unit, too, right?

[PER3]

Originally Posted by starman 

So you're saying that:

Americans = little endian
Europe = big endian

?

Probably more accurate is:

America = prolapsed endian
Europe = big endian

[analogika]

Originally Posted by PER3 

Probably more accurate is:

America = prolapsed endian

Kevin will be right along to tell you ALL about that...

[::maroma::]

Umm, there's a FEEDBACK button right on the damn web mail page. USE IT. Bitching in this forum won't do ANYTHING.

Sheesh.

[itai195]

I don't mind the American system, because that's how people actually say the date when speaking in the US. I do find YYYY/MM/DD more logical but I've just never been able to get comfortable with it.

However, Apple should support other formats... it's relatively easy programmatically, and I imagine the feature will be in there soon if you send feedback.

[PER3]

Originally Posted by itai195 

I don't mind the American system, because that's how people actually say the date when speaking in the US. I do find YYYY/MM/DD more logical but I've just never been able to get comfortable with it.

However, Apple should support other formats... it's relatively easy programmatically, and I imagine the feature will be in there soon if you send feedback.

YYYY/MM/DD is ideal for labelling files, and DD/MM/YYYY works logically for correspondence. MM/DD and MM/DD/YYYY just seem a little eccentric, at least since the 9 November WTC attacks.

Yes, Apple would do well to support other formats.

(And the US would do well to switch to metric.)

PS What's this about Kevin and a prolapse?

[itai195]

Originally Posted by PER3 

YYYY/MM/DD is ideal for labelling files, and DD/MM/YYYY works logically for correspondence. MM/DD and MM/DD/YYYY just seem a little eccentric, at least since the 9 November WTC attacks.

Reminds me of that bin Laden tape that showed him talking about 9/11, but the time stamp on the video was 11-9-2001. Americans thought that meant Nov 9, which I also thought until my parents, who weren't born in the US, pointed out that the time stamp was Sept 11...

(And the US would do well to switch to metric.)

Agreed, but Americans just don't understand metric. Never understood why.

[PER3]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Reminds me of that bin Laden tape that showed him talking about 9/11, but the time stamp on the video was 11-9-2001. Americans thought that meant Nov 9, which I also thought until my parents, who weren't born in the US, pointed out that the time stamp was Sept 11...


Agreed, but Americans just don't understand metric. Never understood why.

Australians also didn't understand it—at least until after the government forced the change in the 1970s:

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm

An interesting quote:

Apart from the US...

"According to a survey taken by USMA many years ago, the only other countries that have not officially adopted the metric system are Liberia (in western Africa) and Burma (also known as Myanmar, in Southeast Asia)"

Interesting fellow travellers!

[itai195]

The federal government is generally unwilling to really impose changes like these, no matter how much sense they make

Same with the saga of the $1 coin.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by RevEvs 

I think its just down to the way people say things.

People in the UK would say "26th of October", people in the US "October 26".

Really? British people would generally say "today is the twenty-sixth of October" rather than "today is October twenty-sixth"? I never noticed that before.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by PER3 

PS What's this about Kevin and a prolapse?

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...us#post1464658

[Buckaroo]

The best date format is:

dd MMM yy

27 OCT 06

it gives you the day, the month in a 3 alpha digit format and 2 digits for the year.

The European format is stupid. No one wants to see the year first. It's stupid.

If I had a list of 100 dates in a row, in European format I'd have to read 100 "2006's" before I got to the month and day. I want to see the month and day before I give a rats ass about the year.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by kennethmac2000 

Unless of course you think Americans are so much more important and civilized than the rest of the world that their opinion counts for more than the other 95pc of the planet!?!?

Unless, you didn't understand what I was saying

-t

[starman]

I wonder if any of you who say that things should be in order say "Wednesday, November 1".

That seems backwards by those standards, no?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

The best date format is:

dd MMM yy

27 OCT 06

it gives you the day, the month in a 3 alpha digit format and 2 digits for the year.

The European format is stupid. No one wants to see the year first. It's stupid.

That IS the European format, you illiterate moron.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by starman 

I wonder if any of you who say that things should be in order say "Wednesday, November 1".

That seems backwards by those standards, no?

I say (and write), “Wednesday, 1 November(,) 2006”.

If using ISO, I’d write, “2006-11-01, Wednesday”.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

The best date format is:

dd MMM yy

27 OCT 06

it gives you the day, the month in a 3 alpha digit format and 2 digits for the year.

The European format is stupid. No one wants to see the year first. It's stupid.

If I had a list of 100 dates in a row, in European format I'd have to read 100 "2006's" before I got to the month and day. I want to see the month and day before I give a rats ass about the year.

The only decent format is YYYY-MM-DD. Sorts correctly as plain text and has no confusion regarding which segment is which. That format you're suggesting (which others have suggested is the European standard) breaks down when the day and the year could be ambiguous (07 NOV 06 is 2007 or 2006?). No reason to represent the month using letters, as everyone knows the month names, the month names vary by language, and it makes it more useful to computer programs to use numbers.

[kennethmac2000]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

The best date format is:

dd MMM yy

27 OCT 06

it gives you the day, the month in a 3 alpha digit format and 2 digits for the year.

The European format is stupid. No one wants to see the year first. It's stupid.

If I had a list of 100 dates in a row, in European format I'd have to read 100 "2006's" before I got to the month and day. I want to see the month and day before I give a rats ass about the year.

How is that possibly the best date format, unless you are so arrogant as to assume that everyone in the world should speak and understand the English language?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

I wonder if any of you who say that things should be in order say "Wednesday, November 1".

That seems backwards by those standards, no?

"Mi, 01.11.2006" is how you'd write in in Germany.

-t

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

The best date format is:

dd MMM yy

27 OCT 06

it gives you the day, the month in a 3 alpha digit format and 2 digits for the year.

The European format is stupid. No one wants to see the year first. It's stupid.

If I had a list of 100 dates in a row, in European format I'd have to read 100 "2006's" before I got to the month and day. I want to see the month and day before I give a rats ass about the year.

day/month/year is the European format.

[khufuu]

Ok. Let's think of things historically. Long long long before America decided to create it's own standard, everyone said, '...on this day, the 25th of November in the year of our lord 1056...' etc. etc. The dd/mm/yyyy format has been around for centuries.

That being said, I think that the world should go to YYYY/MM/DD format. For no other reason other than the date will sort correctly in any old left justified text field.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That IS the European format, you illiterate moron.

Hmmm, I must confess, I am a little confused. Not a moron, but a little confused.

The date format of dd MMM yy was the standard military format of dd meaning a two digit numeric for the day, MMM for 3 alpha characters for the month, and yy for two numerics for the year. 10 OCT 06

10 for the day, OCT for the month and 06 for the year.

I left the military in approx. 87. I am not sure, but I suspect that they may have changed their standard format.

I noticed some European documents that were using the ISO 8601 std date format of yyyy mm, dd and I thought that was the European standard. I am not sure that the European std. is or was. I do know that I don't like the ISO std date format. It might work great for computer programs and files, but it is horrible for humans. I don't believe we should take on a format to accomadate machines, we need machines to accomadate us. When I look for a date, the first thing I want to know is either the day or month. I don't need the year to be the first thing I read on every single stinken date.

I'm tired, I'll expand on this more later.

[Buckaroo]

It might be an Air Force thing, since I notice that a AF web site has the following message:

INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLETING THE DD FORM 1056 . . . . . . . . . .

Enter all dates using the military date format. Write the month as a three-letter abbreviation, DD/MMM/YY (example - 5 FEB 86).

[Buckaroo]

Is there any one that is currently in the Air Force that can tell me what the current std is.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Is there any one that is currently in the Air Force that can tell me what the current std is.

Apparently syphilis is making a big comeback.

[rickey939]

Apple will go under because of this issue. Just watch.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Apparently syphilis is making a big comeback.

std[.] = standard

[analogika]

O Rly?

[Nebagakid]

I have damn idea what 17 O' Clock is

[Nebagakid]

Originally Posted by rickey939 

Apple will go under because of this issue. Just watch.

In fact, the stock market is opening on a saturday just to allow the price to drop.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Nebagakid 

I have damn idea what 17 O' Clock is

It's not that difficult. 24 hours in a day. 17:00 == 5 p.m.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Apparently syphilis is making a big comeback.

Nice

-t

[TETENAL]

I have a great idea: Why don't we simply add 12 to the day of the month and always write the year with 4 digits? That way the order wouldn't matter, we could keep the order that we are used to and it would always be unambiguous. 40/10/2006 or 10/40/2006 or 2006/10/40 are all today without the possibility of confusion.

What do you think?

[PER3]

Originally Posted by analogika 

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...us#post1464658

(my) OT

Charming post. Couldn't find Kevin there, however. Back to fleshing out our dates.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

I have a great idea: Why don't we simply add 12 to the day of the month and always write the year with 4 digits? That way the order wouldn't matter, we could keep the order that we are used to and it would always be unambiguous. 40/10/2006 or 10/40/2006 or 2006/10/40 are all today without the possibility of confusion.

What do you think?

Yeah, that's a great idea, that really would cut down confusion, especially in times of transition.

So, what date is 10/31/2006 then ? Or 13/13/13 ?
Unless you can just switch the whole world from one day to the next (like daylaight savings time), you'd be in a world of farking confusion.

-t

[FireWire]

Get used to it, people The US system is the standard system used in business, just as English is the standard language. As a canadian, I use the DD/MM/YYYY system and I think it's the most logical one, but I accept the fact that on the Internets, it's the US system that prevails.

I think the DD/MM/YYYY is the most appropriate because you are the Nth day, of the the Nth month of that year. When you say an adress, do you say "34th street, 23, New York"? The number belongs to a street, the street belongs to the city. The day belongs to the month, the month belongs to the year.

Now.. if the US would "update" itself to the real standards...

[PER3]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Get used to it, people The US system is the standard system used in business, just as English is the standard language. As a canadian, I use the DD/MM/YYYY system and I think it's the most logical one, but I accept the fact that on the Internets, it's the US system that prevails.

I think the DD/MM/YYYY is the most appropriate because you are the Nth day, of the the Nth month of that year. When you say an adress, do you say "34th street, 23, New York"? The number belongs to a street, the street belongs to the city. The day belongs to the month, the month belongs to the year.

Now.. if the US would "update" itself to the real standards...

Smiley notwithstanding, I'd consider modifying that to "The US system is a standard used in some businesses". It is not the standard by any means. It doesn't prevail.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by PER3 

Smiley notwithstanding, I'd consider modifying that to "The US system is a standard used in some businesses". It is not the standard by any means. It doesn't prevail.

Well, what I mean is that if you want to conduct international business, you HAVE to speak English and you have to use the USD as the currency. Sure there are exceptions, but that's the way it generally is.

[PER3]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Well, what I mean is that if you want to conduct international business, you HAVE to speak English and you have to use the USD as the currency. Sure there are exceptions, but that's the way it generally is.

Almost totally agree. Yes, one does have to speak English. Yes, one does have, in the great majority, to deal with currencies in term of the USD.

My point was that as far as the issue of how to express the date goes, the US preference is not the standard. Hopefully we can agree to disagree as to whether this is the right path.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by PER3 

(my) OT

Charming post. Couldn't find Kevin there, however. Back to fleshing out our dates.

Zimphire is Kevin.

[PER3]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Zimphire is Kevin.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Actually, I originally wanted to ask whether Kevin was Zimphire or the cousin nurse or the old lady with the stretched anus, but was a bit concerned that I might be booked in doing so for making a homo extrapolus or ad hominem or whatever it is called.

All clear now.

[Railroader]

OP: Nope.