[*TL]

Originally Posted by goMac 

This is a prime example of why it's a bad idea to build a format while it's already on the market. It's like building a car while you're driving it. Again, HD-DVD's decision to wait to release until they finished the format is looking like the smart choice.

I don't disagree with you. However, I do accept that market forces made doing so impossible.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

OK, another poster has confirmed the Canadian pricing:

A3: $349
A30: $449
A35: $549
XA2: $799

However, she also says that the machines will include 2 HD DVDs in the box (300 and Bourne Identity) and a mail-in deal for 5 free movies. I haven't seen verification of this part, but she says the machines won't be available for a couple of weeks yet in Canada, so I guess it makes sense we won't see the Canadian free movie deal advertised just yet.

I got the A20 for $349, but I think I'll keep that. I'd rather have a player for $100 cheaper than those free movies.

I'm taking back the A20... cuz my wish was granted, and then some.

The HD-A2 (1080i model) is CAD$199.99 RIGHT NOW at Future Shop, with three free movies in the box. So I ordered one.

Canadians, you'd better act quick if you're interested, cuz about 25 sold in the 15 minutes I was checking out the site, and they now have less than 30 left.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm taking back the A20... cuz my wish was granted, and then some.

The HD-A2 (1080i model) is CAD$199.99 RIGHT NOW at Future Shop, with three free movies in the box. So I ordered one.

Canadians, you'd better act quick if you're interested, cuz about 25 sold in the 15 minutes I was checking out the site, and they now have less than 30 left.

The entire batch of 86 online sold in about half an hour. (I don't know many more were sold in stores.)


P.S. DVD Forum approves 51GB HD DVD

A working group within the DVD Forum has approved the specification for a triple-layer 51GB HD DVD, confirmed a spokesperson for the North American HD DVD Promotion Group, opening the door for the format to be competitive with Blu-ray Disc’s highest-capacity 50GB disc.

Replicators can now start producing 51GB HD DVD discs, which include three layers holding 17GB capacity each. Production should drive manufacturers to begin testing how existing HD DVD players and drives can playback such the new discs.

So, we now find out if the DVD Forum and Toshiba has screwed us early generation hardware purchasers like Blu-ray has.

[jokell82]

I have a feeling they wouldn't be releasing this if it wasn't compatible with all models.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm taking back the A20... cuz my wish was granted, and then some.

The HD-A2 (1080i model) is CAD$199.99 RIGHT NOW at Future Shop, with three free movies in the box. So I ordered one.

Canadians, you'd better act quick if you're interested, cuz about 25 sold in the 15 minutes I was checking out the site, and they now have less than 30 left.

The $199 HD DVD player arrived. It had only 1 HD DVD in the box.

Future Shop customer service is looking into it.

[olePigeon]

Everyone knows Laserdisc is gonna win.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

HD-DVD almost had me as I really really liked transformers and then I read this:

"Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality"

HD DVD Review: Transformers | High-Def Digest

I fall under I want to watch the movie in the best audio and video quality and extra's be dammed.

[Eug]

It's 1.5 Mbps DD+.

DTS is 1.5 Mbps, but is of moderate efficiency compression.
DD is 640 Kbps, and is of high efficiency compression.

DD+ on these discs is 1.5 Mbps, but with equal to or higher than DD efficiency. In fact, some of the compressionists prefer DD+ at 1.5 Mbps from a 24-bit source over uncompressed 16-bit LPCM. Yeah, it's always nice to have lossless, although I think of it more as a marketing tool than anything. That's why I was surprised when HD DVD required TrueHD support in all its players.

Oh and that review you linked gave the audio quality 5/5 stars.

Anyways, I'm picking up my copy of Transformers tomorrow...

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It's 1.5 Mbps DD+.

DTS is 1.5 Mbps, but is of moderate efficiency compression.
DD is 640 Kbps, and is of high efficiency compression.

DD+ on these discs is 1.5 Mbps, but with equal to or higher than DD efficiency. In fact, some of the compressionists prefer DD+ at 1.5 Mbps from a 24-bit source over uncompressed 16-bit LPCM. Yeah, it's always nice to have lossless, although I think of it more as a marketing tool than anything. That's why I was surprised when HD DVD required TrueHD support in all its players.

Oh and that review you linked gave the audio quality 5/5 stars.

Anyways, I'm picking up my copy of Transformers tomorrow...

Don't let these facts get in the way of actual argument.

Even if lossless was needed, the upcoming 50 gig discs would provide more space. But I agree, lossless is mostly a marketing tool. Compared to high bit rate lossy there shouldn't be much of a difference at all.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Oh and that review you linked gave the audio quality 5/5 stars.

"Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection."

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Anyways, I'm picking up my copy of Transformers tomorrow...

Wow. I remember you didn't even want to see it in theatres cuz you didn't care.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection."

Who cares? Yes, the audio can be better. But given that he can't stop talking about how awesome the audio in Transformers is, I think the audio in Transformers is more than good enough.

Just more sour grapes from the Bluray camp because of the "ZOMG no 50 gigs". I think Transformers is a great of example of not needing 50 gigs of disc space to have a truly great audio experience.

Not that it matters, given that HD-DVD now has 50 gig discs too.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection."

Translated: "Yeah I think it's totally awesome, but the placebo effect of lossless would have made me think it's even totally awesomer."

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Wow. I remember you didn't even want to see it in theatres cuz you didn't care.

Yeah. I still have mixed feelings about getting it, considering the reviews are mixed.

However, it looks like it will be perfect to show off my new HD projector setup, and it's on sale tomorrow at Future Shop. (Neither AM nor I have seen it.) Not a great price at $29.99, but it's actually competitive with Amazon.com for a change.

Originally Posted by goMac 

HD-DVD now has 50 gig discs too.

Well, not officially yet for the 1st and 2nd gen (or even 3rd gen) players. They say they're in testing mode right now. If it turns out 51 GB isn't compatible with all existing players, that would be majorly lame.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection."

That doesn't make any sense. So it's a perfect 5/5 for audio but it could've been better? Well then, genius, it's not a 5/5 now is it? If it can even possibly get better you can't give it a perfect score. There's no room to move up from perfection.

Reviewers are weird...

[icruise]

So you think that 5/5 means absolutely perfect with nothing that could be improved whatsoever? If that were the case, *nothing* would ever get a 5-star rating. If we were talking about a system that scores out of 100 and they gave a perfect 100, you might have a point, but a 5 or 4 star rating system is hardly that precise.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you think that 5/5 means absolutely perfect with nothing that could be improved whatsoever? If that were the case, *nothing* would ever get a 5-star rating. If we were talking about a system that scores out of 100 and they gave a perfect 100, you might have a point, but a 5 or 4 star rating system is hardly that precise.

In context, yes. If the reviewer thinks the audio cannot be better than presented, it should be given a 5/5. But if they think there is room for improvement, which this reviewer obviously thinks there is, how can you score a 5/5? There is no room to improve with that score. Would lossless have been a 6/5? Or a "stronger" 5/5? That wouldn't make any sense...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you think that 5/5 means absolutely perfect with nothing that could be improved whatsoever? If that were the case, *nothing* would ever get a 5-star rating. If we were talking about a system that scores out of 100 and they gave a perfect 100, you might have a point, but a 5 or 4 star rating system is hardly that precise.

I think his comment afterwards makes no sense. He basically says:

"Yes, the track is totally awesome, but lossless would most likely have been better, despite the fact I have no idea what the original lossless track sounds like."

[icruise]

I have no opinion about the disc or the review per se. But I think the idea that a disc has to be 100% perfect to get a 5/5 is silly.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I have no opinion about the disc or the review per se. But I think the idea that a disc has to be 100% perfect to get a 5/5 is silly.

I agree.

I also think saying that a lossless track he has never heard will likely be better than a 1.5 Mbps DD+ track that he himself rates as outstanding and 5/5 is also silly.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I have no opinion about the disc or the review per se. But I think the idea that a disc has to be 100% perfect to get a 5/5 is silly.

Then what is the purpose of rating it on a scale if the highest rating isn't 'perfect' or very close? Giving things 5's and 100's shouldn't be given out as much as they are. More so in this case because he, himself says it it has room for improvement, yet the rating can't be improved, because it's at the top of the scale.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I have no opinion about the disc or the review per se. But I think the idea that a disc has to be 100% perfect to get a 5/5 is silly.

I don't think 5/5 necessarily has to represent perfection. However, given the source material, a 5/5 should represent an audio track that could not be any better. If there is room for improvement you can't give something the highest score, as that gives no ... well, room for improvement.

But if the source material has flaws, the presentation could still be a 5/5 even with those flaws present (i.e. restoring the soundtrack of an old movie).

[icruise]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Then what is the purpose of rating it on a scale if the highest rating isn't 'perfect' or very close? Giving things 5's and 100's shouldn't be given out as much as they are. More so in this case because he, himself says it it has room for improvement, yet the rating can't be improved, because it's at the top of the scale.

Because there are only 5 grades on the scale -- by definition it is incredibly imprecise. Maybe the reviewer wanted to give it the equivalent of 90% or 95%, but he can't. Or are you saying that the most minor defect should doom something to a 4/5 (equivalent to an 80% out of 100?)

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Because there are only 5 grades on the scale -- by definition it is incredibly imprecise. Maybe the reviewer wanted to give it the equivalent of 90% or 95%, but he can't. Or are you saying that the most minor defect should doom something to a 4/5 (equivalent to an 80% out of 100?)

They do half-star ratings. The video quality was 4.5 stars.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

They do half-star ratings. The video quality was 4.5 stars.

That would have been my choice as well.

[Chongo]

I bought Transformers today, pretty damn awesome

[icruise]

Yes, yes it is. I got the "transforming DVD case" edition at Target and it looks fantastic on my iPhone (one thing I wouldn't have been able to do easily if I had gotten a high-def version, so I guess that's one consolation about the lack of Blu-ray.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Yes, yes it is. I got the "transforming DVD case" edition at Target and it looks fantastic on my iPhone (one thing I wouldn't have been able to do easily if I had gotten a high-def version, so I guess that's one consolation about the lack of Blu-ray.

Good idea. I might rip my DVD to my iPod Touch at work tomorrow.

[Kevin]

So how many pages later, and still the same ole same ole...

[iLikebeer]

i used to average buying at least 1 dvd a week. i have an hdtv, but hardly ever buy anything anymore unless it's a movie i MUST have. that said, as cheesy as transformers is, i almost bought an hddvd player this week just because i would lick megan fox's belly till my tongue bleeds..and the sfx aren't too bad either.
just like i almost bought one when 300 came out, and when shaun of the dead 2 came out.

sorry, as long as any movies are format exclusive, progressive dvd upscaling is good enough for me, as long as i REALLY MUST have the movie. otherwise, hopefully like many others, i'm voting for NONE OF THE ABOVE with my wallet.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer 

i used to average buying at least 1 dvd a week. i have an hdtv, but hardly ever buy anything anymore unless it's a movie i MUST have. that said, as cheesy as transformers is, i almost bought an hddvd player this week just because i would lick megan fox's belly till my tongue bleeds..and the sfx aren't too bad either.
just like i almost bought one when 300 came out, and when shaun of the dead 2 came out.

sorry, as long as any movies are format exclusive, progressive dvd upscaling is good enough for me, as long as i REALLY MUST have the movie. otherwise, hopefully like many others, i'm voting for NONE OF THE ABOVE with my wallet.

That's a reasonable decision, but I must tell you that on a projected 88" screen, upscaled DVD looks like crap. Size does matter I guess.

OTOH, Transformers on HD DVD is awesome through the projector.

P.S. What is Shaun of the Dead 2?

[Eug]

Transformers HD DVD audio reviews

DVD Authority: 5/5

DVD Talk: 5/5

DVD Town: 10/10

High-Def Digest: 5/5

High-Def Disc News: 5/5

IGN: 10/10

TV Predictions: 5/5

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Meijer sells Blu-ray exclusively on site, cites 4:1 sales ratio - PS3 Fanboy

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. What is Shaun of the Dead 2?

Hot Fuzz?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Meijer sells Blu-ray exclusively on site, cites 4:1 sales ratio - PS3 Fanboy

I didn't even know Meijer had a site where you could actually buy stuff. I guess that's new.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Meijer sells Blu-ray exclusively on site, cites 4:1 sales ratio - PS3 Fanboy

Sony & Blu-ray Lose Exclusive JB Hi-Fi Deal

Sony and Blu-ray have lost their exclusivity in JB Hi-Fi stores with the announcement that effective from November, the major retailer will start selling HD DVD players and content. The big winner is Toshiba, with JB Hi-Fi Marketing Director Scott Browning conceding that it was the exclusive Paramount content deal with HD DVD that swung him over to the HD DVD format.

Back in February this year at the launch of the Blu-ray Disc Working Group, Browning said that JB Hi-Fi would only sell Blu-ray hardware and software because of the strength of the format.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Transformers HD DVD audio reviews

DVD Authority: 5/5

DVD Talk: 5/5

DVD Town: 10/10

High-Def Digest: 5/5

High-Def Disc News: 5/5

IGN: 10/10

TV Predictions: 5/5

And another...

Home Theater Spot: 5/5

But technical details aside, how does it sound? If Robin were around, he would say “Holy S**t Batman!” And I’m not kidding. While the video was a close second compared to all of the other discs that I have reviewed, the audio is at the top, lossless codec or not. The soundstage is extremely engaging, has excellent tonal balance, wide dynamics and will shake your home off of the foundation! The sound design team needs to be commended on this one for producing a truly reference demo piece for your home theater. The last 40-minutes of the movie is too long by far for a conclusion to a movie, but there is so much demo material in that 40-minutes that will show your guests the benefits of HD DVD and what the HD audio experience brings to the table. I know, I know, it isn’t lossless, but in this case, I can’t imagine it sounding any better.

[jokell82]

Sheesh. Maybe I should pick up Transformers just as a reference disc. Wasn't too impressed by the movie, though...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Sheesh. Maybe I should pick up Transformers just as a reference disc. Wasn't too impressed by the movie, though...

Actually that's one of the reasons why I did. I waited for the first HD DVD review and then purchased. However I ended up really liking the movie. I had never seen it before.

[Eug]

DreamWorks TRANSFORMERS This Year's Top-Selling Title Day One and Week One for Either Hi-Def Format

Additionally, the smash hit has exploded into the high definition market, selling over 100,000 HD DVDs its first day of release, rocketing past previous releases to become the best-selling day one high definition title on either format since their inceptions. TRANSFORMERS has sold over 190,000 HD DVDs in its first week making it the fastest and best-selling week one release on either high definition format as well as the best selling HD DVD ever.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I didn't even know Meijer had a site where you could actually buy stuff. I guess that's new.

Either did I. So that means getting an exclusive deal there is big business.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually that's one of the reasons why I did. I waited for the first HD DVD review and then purchased. However I ended up really liking the movie. I had never seen it before.

Ended up buying it for $3. God bless Movie Stop.

[iLikebeer]

just remember, no matter how good it looks, that's not really her sexy tummy, it's your HDTV.
It might be tough to resist, but don't lick it. poop in your kitchen if you must

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

DreamWorks TRANSFORMERS This Year's Top-Selling Title Day One and Week One for Either Hi-Def Format

Additionally, the smash hit has exploded into the high definition market, selling over 100,000 HD DVDs its first day of release, rocketing past previous releases to become the best-selling day one high definition title on either format since their inceptions. TRANSFORMERS has sold over 190,000 HD DVDs in its first week making it the fastest and best-selling week one release on either high definition format as well as the best selling HD DVD ever.

Michael Bay betting on Blu-ray

Transformers is the first major film to arrive on HD DVD ($40) since partners Paramount and DreamWorks joined that side of the high-definition video disc format war. Universal also makes its films available exclusively on HD DVD. Sony, Disney and Fox support rival Blu-ray Disc, while Warner releases on both formats.

Bay caused a brouhaha on his blog (michaelbay.com) by voicing his displeasure that Transformers would not be available on Blu-ray and that he was rethinking his plan to direct a sequel. The next day he backpedaled, but he is still upset about the format war.

"It's short-sighted and it has delayed consumers' moving to HD (home video)," he says. "As a director, my critical eye is that Blu-ray is where my money is. Consumers are smart, and they are going to wait it out."

The HD DVD version also set a new mark. Its 190,000 copies sold is the best debut of any high-def disc.

[exca1ibur]

The exclusive deal for this launch makes no sense to me, as everyone knows they would have sold three times as much on Bluray. Reguardless good numbers there. Easy to predict this movie as a big seller. Kick ass movie. The DVD numbers are a record as well. 4.5 million the first day.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The exclusive deal for this launch makes no sense to me, as everyone knows they would have sold thress times as much on Bluray. Reguardless good numbers there. Easy to predict this movie as a big seller. Kick ass movie. The DVD numbers are a record as well. 4.5 million the first day.

Three times as much on Blu-ray? Unlikely. Maybe twice as much though, since that's been about the going rate lately.

I wasn't convinced Transformers would sell more than Spider-Man 3, but now I'm not so sure. The difference though is I think Transformers is a half-decent movie. I HATED Spider-Man 3. SM3 was a big disappointment to me, because I liked both SM1 and SM2. Then again, the reviews for Spider-Man 3 and Transformers were in the same ballpark so who knows.

Anyways, I still think SM3 may sell more than Transformers, but it likely won't be by twice as much.

[icruise]

Transformers isn't a sequel and it has a surprisingly large fan base -- lots of people liked the transformers when they were kids, and yet it can also work as a straight action movie for people not familiar with the series. It'll do very well. Whether it will do better than Spider-man 3 is hard to say, given the difference in installed base (I would say something like Spider-man 3 is the kind of movie that even people who don't ordinarily buy HD movies might decide to pick up.)

[exca1ibur]

I don't think Spiderman 3 will outsell Transformers, personally, but who knows. I didn't care for it either, compared to the first two. Still with as much money as it made worldwide, it could.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The exclusive deal for this launch makes no sense to me, as everyone knows they would have sold thress times as much on Bluray. Reguardless good numbers there. Easy to predict this movie as a big seller. Kick ass movie. The DVD numbers are a record as well. 4.5 million the first day.

It makes sense to me but it isn't for the right reasons.

It is simple really. HD sales of either format are really really low right now.
Toshiba/MS approached Paramount and said "Even if your movies sell well on both BR and HD you won't make more than say 75 million in 18 months. So how about we give you $150 mil to do only HD for the next 18 months".

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

It makes sense to me but it isn't for the right reasons.

It is simple really. HD sales of either format are really really low right now.
Toshiba/MS approached Paramount and said "Even if your movies sell well on both BR and HD you won't make more than say 75 million in 18 months. So how about we give you $150 mil to do only HD for the next 18 months".

Except they've already denied cash changed hands. Thus maybe it was something more like "We'll do all your advertising for free, etc." Similar effect though.

However, I still find it amusing people are harping on this, when the same is true for Blu-ray and Disney. Remember, Disney refused to deny they were given "incentives" to support Blu-ray.

But that's no surprise. It's a war after all.

[exca1ibur]

Disney made a decision at launch. Paramount was neutral then backpedaled during one of the major Hi-Def releases of the year.

[voodoo]

Hey.. HEY! I just realized something!

It really REALLY doesn't matter one squat which format 'wins'! Isn't that wonderful?!

Please.. you're bickering in the wrong forum. This is the lounge and a billion page technical/nerdy/my format is bigger than yours bickering is just taking space.

This should be locked or moved to a more deserving forum. One of the hardware forums. Don't care which. I don't read'em.

Hey, there's a an idea. Move this thread to the Art and Graphics subforum. Nobody ever goes there.

V