[wadesworld]

A well designed system should be able to understand my needs as well as the needs of all those doing completely different things.

I wanted a command-line in OS 9. Apple's OS 9 did not realize that and didn't provide me a way to have it.

What a poorly designed OS that was.

Wade

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by SMacTech

Mods : why do you let this person keep insulting people?

Read Randman's reply above. That's the only explanation.

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by kcmac

Read Randman's reply above. That's the only explanation.

I guess so.

[Anubis IV]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

The Mac was designed for everybody, that was the beauty of it. It was perfectly capable to work my way as well of everybody's way.
OS X works Steve's way and that's it. You don't like it? You're screwed.
But you don't even understand this.

I guess I just don't get this line. I mean, the Mac, the original Mac that is, WAS designed by Steve Jobs (as well as many others, of course). He had his hand in it, just as he has his hand in the design of the current Macs.

What really gets me though is the sentence "It was perfectly capable to work my way as well of everybody's way." Who are you to assume that Mac OS 9 or 8 or 7 or whichever one you are referring to worked exactly as I wanted it to work? Who are you to say that it was "perfectly capable" of working my way? I wanted access to a command-line interface in OS9, but did I have it? No!

How dare you assume that just because one cycle of the design goes your way that it also went everybody else's way as well. How dare you assume that just because it works for you it works for everyone else. Even if you disagree with everyone else in this topic, I trust that you are intelligent enough to realize that most others seem to disagree with you in regards to just what does or doesn't work. I trust that you'd agree that not everyone thinks we are going in a bad direction, and since you seem to be in the minority, I'd also hope that you'd agree that Apple is not ignoring the majority of users. After all, they can't meet the needs of EVERYONE, but they will try to meet the needs of their users, and if it's you, a single user, against the rest of us, who do you think Apple is going to listen to?

[Grrr]

And now, back to the subject of 10.4.2

[maggie11_6]

aviators. definitely.

[loki74]

Randman: true that.

Wow. Maxximo I really couldt believe some of the things I've heard out of you my friend.

None of the fixes are MY fixes
um blatantly obvious--not enough people see what you see as a problem to make a change to it. Really, if you have millions of dollars (which you must if youre really as important as you make yourself out to be) maybe you can hire Apple to custom build you OSX Maxximo version.

I use no apps that use Core Graphics
wow. all I can say is wow.

Designed for everbody
not really at all... well, possible. Everybody has different needs. Notice how if you click on the apple menu theres this thing called "System Preferences?" Thats there because the OS is NOT one-size-fits-all. Know what a "hack" is? Those exist because the OS is NOT one-size-fits-all. If it really means that much to you, find a hack or make one yourself. Otherwise dont bother whining about why Apple doesnt make an OS catered to you, while the rest of us who really dont give half a crap about your complaints have to wait for them to finish making your OS before the Apple guys can make revisions that actually do matter. OS's cannot be, will not be, and never have been "for everyone."

I work in one of the worlds top post houses
Thats pretty meaningless, really. That doesnt mean you have talent. I mean, I use at home the same programs that you high and mighty "pros" use, and I use them to create pro-level work. Not to brag, but I've never had a single dissatified client. What does it matter wheter your creaive device is in a home or a corner-office?

You know, if you have beef with something in the UI, there is a mature way of stating that:
"you know, I havent really been overly impressed with Apple's priorities regarding what theyre fixing. It seems to me that [iTunes during FUS, Find function, blah blah whatever other problems you have...] are major problems that Apple, at least for the moment, seems to be overlooking. Does any else agree with me? Cause these ptoblems seriously affect my workflow." Now how painful was that? If you were more polite about the whole thing, it would be much easier to have a civilized discussion.

The world doesnt revolve around you, buddy. So stop whining and grow up.

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by Grrr

And now, back to the subject of 10.4.2

What was the original question?

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by Anubis IV

I wanted access to a command-line interface in OS9, but did I have it? No!

Wrong platform I guess. The Mac was created precisely so no one had to look at a command-line interface again. I thought everybody knew that. It's like buying a G5 expecting to play Half-Life 2.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by echosphere

An informative-thread-turned-rant that I acutally enjoy. Nice to see the moderators jumping in and giving views.

Was just curious, is there a definition of a Bug?

For example:
In organic environments, a Pest is simply any organism in the wrong place, at the wrong time. All biologists, agro-chemists and hippies agree on that. But, the whole environmental argument comes from who or what is defining the wrong place and wrong time.

So, if the example above could hold (as I assume that a Bug is digital extrapolation on a Pest) who defines what a bug is? The Programmer? The Architect (Apple)? Or the the User?

~Echo

Originally, the use of the term bug came from way back when computers were the size of buildings. At that point, a moth might get fried in between to leads, shorting it out, and causing the computer to not function properly. Of course, this was back when guys would sleep on top of the registers to keep warm.

Currently, bugs are defined as such by whoever designed the system. Just because a user doesn't like the way something works doesn't mean it's a bug. It may be changed due to a user complaint, but that still doesn't define an issue as a bug. Generally, bugs require the use of a debugger to find... a design flaw would not be a bug.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Wrong platform I guess. The Mac was created precisely so no one had to look at a command-line interface again. I thought everybody knew that. It's like buying a G5 expecting to play Half-Life 2.

This is a bad analog. The G5 was not created so that no one would have to play Half-Life 2. It would be like buying a dual-core Athlon64 to run DOS-mode 8086 programs. Of course, you have to remember that even though the command line interface is there, you still don't have to look at it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Wrong platform I guess. The Mac was created precisely so no one had to look at a command-line interface again. I thought everybody knew that. It's like buying a G5 expecting to play Half-Life 2.

Just like user switching was created precisely so no one user's environment would spill over into other users' workspaces. It's funny how when you want user separation to be broken down, the Mac is supposed to cater to every single user's whims; meanwhile, if he wants a command line interface, well, "wrong platform."

[wadesworld]

Wrong platform I guess. The Mac was created precisely so no one had to look at a command-line interface again. I thought everybody knew that. It's like buying a G5 expecting to play Half-Life 2.

Whoa, wait. Wrong platform?

What are you talking about? I thought you said the Mac was supposed to understand how you wanted to work and offer that functionality to you, while providing the correct functionality for everyone else too.

Since OS 9 was the perfect OS as far as you're concerned, why did it not do what I wanted?

Wade

[mAxximo]

G-G-Gawd.

[dru]

Originally Posted by car1son

If you stop thinking about iTunes as an iPod and think about it as a home CD player, amplifier and speakers, it's no longer obvious that iTunes must shut down during FUS. An option might make both uses feasible. Just because you don't use your Mac as a home music system doesn't make a specific behavior "obviously correct".

I think I remember seeing a tick box in the Wndows XP version of iTunes that lets you specify whether it continues to play or suspects when you switch user accounts. I could be insane but I'd swear I saw that.

[tavilach]

I just skimmed through this thread.

Grow up, mAxximo. Coming from me, you can take that as a huge insult.

[xi_hyperon]

He will not grow up. He will continue to litter threads with the same whining and trolling that he has since OS 9 shriveled up and died.

For someone who works "at one of the top post houses in the U.S.", his maturity level is amazingly low.

[esXXI]

Arguing with mAxximo is like arguing with a bot. Anything you say and he responds with:

"You are wrong, I am right. Everyone should do as I say. OS 9 was king. I know more than Apple."

Repeat for every thread he partakes in.

[alphasubzero949]

At least he doesn't post dissertations about how great OS 9 was like 'Brother' Thalo does.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

At least he doesn't post dissertations about how great OS 9 was like 'Brother' Thalo does.

maxximo is the apprentice - Thalo is the master.

[SMacTech]

This is a repeat of the mAxximo debacle at Ars last year. This one person tries to dissuade us all from more important things. Once he starts rolling down his diatribe hill there is no stopping him.

[Randman]

[ManOfSteal]

ManOfSteal just posted in this thread.

[Horsepoo!!!]

maxximo is the apprentice - Thalo is the master.

Sheesh...at least only two can there be.

mAaximo, go back to Ars...or did you get banned there?

[jamil5454]

I think mAxximo likes all this attention.

The Mac was created for everybody. And by everybody I mean mAxximo. If you wanted multiple users, stability, or a strong network stack then you had to look elsewhere. But the Mac was still for everybody.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I just skimmed through this thread.

Grow up, mAxximo. Coming from me, you can take that as a huge insult.

Respect! Sometimes you're alright, Tav.

ON TOPIC: I've noticed in 10.4 & 10.4.1 that sometimes the cursor doesn't revert from a SPOD back to a pointer when it's done with its spinning, and instead I just have a non-spinning Pizza of Despair, that works like the regular pointer, except of course I can't tell where I'm pointing with it. Tabbing through the application switcher is the only thing I've found that'll make it go away when it happens. I hope this is fixed.

Also lately, Spotlight searches in the menu bar aren't being dismissed after I choose the file I want. The Spotlight drop-down menu continues to just hang there, no matter what I do. Lots of random clicking will eventually cause it to go away, but I can't find any rhyme or reason. I hope this is fixed in 10.4.2.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

maxximo is the apprentice - Thalo is the master.

Two words: Kelly Hogan.

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by chris v

Respect! Sometimes you're alright, Tav.

ON TOPIC: I've noticed in 10.4 & 10.4.1 that sometimes the cursor doesn't revert from a SPOD back to a pointer when it's done with its spinning, and instead I just have a non-spinning Pizza of Despair, that works like the regular pointer, except of course I can't tell where I'm pointing with it. Tabbing through the application switcher is the only thing I've found that'll make it go away when it happens. I hope this is fixed.

Also lately, Spotlight searches in the menu bar aren't being dismissed after I choose the file I want. The Spotlight drop-down menu continues to just hang there, no matter what I do. Lots of random clicking will eventually cause it to go away, but I can't find any rhyme or reason. I hope this is fixed in 10.4.2.

I've seen this as well. I move the cursor over a window where it needs to change (ie TextEdit - it becomes an I-beam).

Jim

[OreoCookie]

Back on topic, please.

[mdc]

there are a lot of posts in the apple discussions about ichat 3 not working with multiple video chats on supported machines.

my brand new imac 17" 1.8 g5 says that my computer can't handle it. spoke with someone in england (one-on-one video chat) yesterday and he is on tiger with a dual 1.somthing g4 and a much slower internet line than mine and he can host 4 way chats.

read on the rumors about 10.4.2 that ichat fixes are on the way.
i *pray* that it will fix this. this is one of the main reasons i bought this imac.

and another *minor* bug. when i use expose' to show all windows for a specific app (that does not have more than one window) and then choose it's own window. it comes back without a shadow over other apps.
hard to explain, someone try it and tell me if i am alone, or if it is something else that divx broke

[Agent69]

The Mac is made for everybody, but that doesn't mean everybody will like it.

Personally, I can see a lot of things in Mac OS X to nitpick about. But as a whole, Mac OS X is the best operating system for me.

[mAxximo]

I really can't believe some of the posts in this thread.

All I said was “Why do those fixes never seem to coincide with what I think should be fixed. No mention to the Find function not working in not-indexed drives, for example, or the Finder duplicating files when dragging them plus pressing Command (should snap to grid instead), or the already discussed iTunes stopping playback when switching users, etc.”

I guess it's the price for not being part of the cult.
Seek help guys.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

All I said was “Why do those fixes never seem to coincide with what I think should be fixed.

Yes. The response was, "Because most of the things you think should be fixed are not in fact broken". You protested with your usual uninformed ranting, and it degenerated from there.

I guess it's the price for not being part of the cult.

No, it's the price for not learning what you're talking about.

[mAxximo]

What can I expect when one of the main attackers in this site is a “moderator”.
Good job.

[Randman]

You can expect that because you're trollbaiting.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

What can I expect when one of the main attackers in this site is a “moderator”.

I haven't been a moderator in the Mac OS forums in over two years; I only mod the Developer Center and Web Developer forums. Yes, I know about the blue stars by my name; if they confuse you, then please take the matter up with the admins. I don't like having them by my name in forums where I'm not a mod any more than you do. I am not a mod here. I cannot do anything in this forum which you could not. I do wish the forums made that clearer by not showing me as a mod here, but that isn't my decision to make.

You know well that this is not personal. When you've asked legitimate questions in these forums, I have been quick to help you, just as I would be for anyone else. I respect informed opinions, even when they disagree with my own, but I don't hold with the idea of allowing uninformed opinions to stand. We have discussed many times exactly where the flaws in your assumptions, knowledge, and logic lie, and yet you persist in parroting the same things over and over again. This is why my patience has worn so thin with you.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by chris v

Two words: Kelly Hogan.

...shudder...

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

I really can't believe some of the posts in this thread.

All I said was “Why do those fixes never seem to coincide with what I think should be fixed. No mention to the Find function not working in not-indexed drives, for example, or the Finder duplicating files when dragging them plus pressing Command (should snap to grid instead), or the already discussed iTunes stopping playback when switching users, etc.”

I guess it's the price for not being part of the cult.
Seek help guys.

You said a lot more than that. I guess you don't see the insults you throw at people.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by Millennium

I haven't been a moderator in the Mac OS forums in over two years; I only mod the Developer Center and Web Developer forums. Yes, I know about the blue stars by my name; if they confuse you, then please take the matter up with the admins. I don't like having them by my name in forums where I'm not a mod any more than you do. I am not a mod here. I cannot do anything in this forum which you could not. I do wish the forums made that clearer by not showing me as a mod here, but that isn't my decision to make.

You know well that this is not personal. When you've asked legitimate questions in these forums, I have been quick to help you, just as I would be for anyone else. I respect informed opinions, even when they disagree with my own, but I don't hold with the idea of allowing uninformed opinions to stand. We have discussed many times exactly where the flaws in your assumptions, knowledge, and logic lie, and yet you persist in parroting the same things over and over again. This is why my patience has worn so thin with you.

Of course, I thought he was talking about me... and I am a moderator of the Mac OS forum.

[mAxximo]

Double post?

[mAxximo]

Detrius, you are a gentleman. It wasn't about you.

[OreoCookie]

Blue stars doesn't equate to being a mod in a particular forum.

[kcmac]

Where is a moderator when you need one...

[Grrr]

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

ManOfSteal just posted in this thread.

How was that of any use here?

So! lets try again.. 10.4.2 anyone???

[ManOfSteal]

Originally Posted by Grrr

So! lets try again.. 10.4.2 anyone???

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by SMacTech

You said a lot more than that. I guess you don't see the insults you throw at people.

He's a troll, and he knows exactly what he's "said". Why he's allowed to repeat the same flamebait over and over is beyond me.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by Grrr

How was that of any use here?

So! lets try again.. 10.4.2 anyone???

Other than what's posted in the likes of AI and ThinkSecret? Nope.

[OreoCookie]

This thread is not going anywhere.