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Wayland · Feb 14, 2003, 05:26 AM

Ok, so I finally bought a Ti 1GHz Superdrive to replace my Wallstreet II, and it has the fan bug. Yes, it is really pissing me off.
//RANT HERE
This has been discussed already (to say the least), but it is clear some people have a right side fan that is almost always on, others have one that turns off. Apple seems not to acknowledge this, or thinks both are normal.

To try something new, people are posting system profiler info in a new thread, "Fan Problem - let's prove it!" at the apple support forum. I thought it would be good to start this at macnn. If you want to help, open your system profiler (in About this Mac/More info... button) and post your info (not your serial number though). At the minimum, it looks like Machine model and Boot ROM info are the important variables. If it helps, you can save the info as text. Also, specify your fan behavior.

My info is:
Machine model PowerBook3,5(version=3.2)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2
right fan: always on after 20 minutes of light work
center fan: on high sometimes

It would especially help if people without the fan bug post. Like (from other discussions here),
schk, cambo, seanyepez, tomster, and graphics 84. At the apple newsgroup, only one powerbook has correctly operating fans so far (version 3.3, 4.5.3f2).

I know the odds are against apple ever fixing this, but I am annoyed enough by this to fight this battle anyway. If I can't get this resolved, I will have to ebay this lame powerbook and buy an ibook. But, perhaps if enough people respond, we can convince apple there is a problem.

Wayland

hipHippy · Feb 14, 2003, 05:43 AM

Good for you man, I got sooo pissed off with mine I sent it back to apple and ordered a 17incher. Good luck with your crusade, It's like I've said all along apple shoehorned the 1ghz intot the tiCase, You need to demand your money back if there are now tiBooks with no fan bug!

Good luck

mcm4mac · Feb 14, 2003, 07:27 AM

right fan: always on after 20 minutes of light work
center fan: on high sometimes

I guess this is about right for my 1GHz PB. I am not sure I understand why this is a problem. The right fan does cycle off occasionally and the center fan comes on infrequently. The computer stays cool.

Could you explain how it is supposed to operate? Thanks.

Mike

hipHippy · Feb 14, 2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by mcm4mac:
right fan: always on after 20 minutes of light work
center fan: on high sometimes

I guess this is about right for my 1GHz PB. I am not sure I understand why this is a problem. The right fan does cycle off occasionally and the center fan comes on infrequently. The computer stays cool.

Could you explain how it is supposed to operate? Thanks.

Mike

Dude there are some massive threads on this subject do a search and check them out. Some people say there is no fan problem, but I think there is,hence I am waiting for my 17inch powerbook. Maybe it's apples intention to have the fan running most if not all of the time, but it sure as hell bugged the life out of me!

Charles Bouldin · Feb 14, 2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by hipHippy:
Dude there are some massive threads on this subject do a search and check them out. Some people say there is no fan problem, but I think there is,hence I am waiting for my 17inch powerbook. Maybe it's apples intention to have the fan running most if not all of the time, but it sure as hell bugged the life out of me!

I even got Apple to exchange my tibook for a new one. Long story how that worked, but the upshot is that the fan is about the same. In my case, I am almost always operating on AC power, and after a few minutes of light work, I usually get the center fan on and it remains on almost continuously. I have tried various solutions to minimize this, but have decided that there is nothing more to be done about it.

However, if there is suspicion that different versions of the boot rom (4.5.3f2 vs. 4.5.3b2 or something like that) are involved, how would we go abuot switching boot rom files? I have no idea how to do that, but it might be possible, and it is -the- way to cleanly test the idea that the boot rom file is what makes the difference. I'm dubious about that, but it's an experimental science....

tkmd · Feb 14, 2003, 11:20 AM

sorry I'm with the video card conspiracy camp. I think that was the reason Apple switched to the nVidia card offered in the 12 and 17 versions- perhaps it runs cooler- but is certainly inferior to the ATI card. Maybe, Ill hold out until the next version of PB. My Pismo is getting old though.

all2ofme · 01:06 PM

I've had two 1GHz Ti's in the last week and both have shown the exact same behaviour. I didn't check the following details on my first one (which was replaced because of a screen discolouration), but my second one shows:

Machine model PowerBook3,5(version=3.3)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2

My fans:
right fan: always on after 20 minutes of light work
center fan: on high sometimes

Exactly the same as yours, but a version 3.3 machine model.

I'm waiting until I get back to the UK before I investigate any further, but this machine *is* noiser than my 550. Not noisy enough to warrant selling it and going back to the 550, but irritating all the same.

Edit: Actually, to clarify a tad - the 1GHz machines I've seen are noisier in light use, but the 550 on blow-dryer mode is definitely louder than the 1GHz has been with all fans a-blowin' (using Photoshop, for example).

CyberPet · Feb 14, 2003, 01:56 PM

This Boot-ROM-info is real confusing for sure!

Like I have mentioned (maybe not here, but at Apple Discussions) my Boot-ROM-info did change when the Apple Center replaced the logic board.

Pre-repair: 4.5.3.f2
Post-repair: 4.5.3b2

If there's something else I can do to help, let me know. Have to rush out for a Valentine's dinner now.

BkueKanoodle · Feb 14, 2003, 04:26 PM

I've got a apple refurbed 1ghz tibook I bought on tuesday of this week, and I have yet to hear the fans come on at all. I do leave the machine on all the time, with it in sleep mode when I'm driving to work.

I use it a about15 hours a day, so I'm surprised to hear about the fan probelm. Maybe apple did something at the factory to fix it when they refurbed it.

Heres my
Boot Rom info

4.5.3f2

STH · Feb 16, 2003, 08:12 AM

PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
4.5.3f2
867/Combo/768MB (coming from a Pismo)

Right fan: when charging, semi-heavy work (longer QT playback, iTunes)
Turns off approx within 15min.

Center fan: heavy OpenGL (desktop background screensaver, games), Photoshop after several minutes at batch processing
Turns off within 5min post heavy use.

I've worked for hours in complete silence while using TexShop and Latex, iViewMedia, Ragtime Beta, BBedit, Mail, Safari and Chimera extensively.

The behavior seems to have improved with 10.2.4 - but maybe that is just my imagination...

cgreer00 · Feb 16, 2003, 12:49 PM

just got a 1gig SD, and I have no complaints at all about fan noise. the right one comes on and stays on almost constantly, but I can hardly here it (only in a perfectly quiet room.) I am not sure about the center fan, it doesn't sound like it is on. Basically, I think the only time I would ever hear the fans is if I was in a perfectly quiet library, and even then they wouldn't bug me (unless they get louder.) My Ibook fans never came on, but compared to a PC laptop (the newer ones have 2 large fans right next to each other) the PB is very quiet. The only glitch I have on mine is a powersupply that is loose in the socket, if I put any pressure on the cord the green light will go out. That might be an Applecare fix when I will be gone for a little while and don't need the machine.

hipHippy · Feb 16, 2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by STH:

Center fan: heavy OpenGL (desktop background screensaver, games), Photoshop after several minutes at batch processing
Turns off within 5min post heavy use.

Haha you can justify it as much as you like but something is not right when a desktop background causes the primary fan to engage...what a joke, don't you get it apple didn't care about the latest 15inc rev, the 12inch and 17inch were just around the corner !

skyman · Feb 16, 2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by hipHippy:
Haha you can justify it as much as you like but something is not right when a desktop background causes the primary fan to engage...what a joke, don't you get it apple didn't care about the latest 15inc rev, the 12inch and 17inch were just around the corner !

Down Troll, Down!!

CheesePuff · Feb 16, 2003, 01:46 PM

Well I did not have the large fan problem that most people did... the fan only comes on when doing a lot of work with the processor (iTunes playing, web browsing with Safari, e-mail open, iChat open, Frogblast open, etc). and after 10 minutes or so it would come on, but then go off just a few minutes later.

I have since purchased the Podium CoolPad - and the fan has yet to come on!

CheesePuff · Feb 16, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by hipHippy:
Haha you can justify it as much as you like but something is not right when a desktop background causes the primary fan to engage...what a joke, don't you get it apple didn't care about the latest 15inc rev, the 12inch and 17inch were just around the corner !

Actually the latest TiBook 867 MHz/ 1 GHz revisions are the ones to get. They have had all of the kinks worked out and are a *very* sold machine.

issa · 08:32 PM

Machine model PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2
right fan: off and on while working at the GigaBook on AC. It runs a good deal of the time, but it is not overly noisy. (see below)
center fan: kicks in under heavy load from time to time. Shuts off after a few minutes, and is still quieter than the single fan on my first generation 500MHz TiBook.
(Mine is one of the earliest production units, delivered on Nov. 15, 2002)

-----

The new proactive cooling system adopted for the 867 MHz/1 GHz TiBook is designed to effectively maintain the temperature of the internal components and enclosure, even if that is at the price of having one of the fans run more often. Note, though, that the step-free modulating blower in the rear right corner is rated at 19 decibels, which is hardly a lot of noise.

Leaving out some details about the improved heat sink for the GPU, etc., here's a brief explanation of how the new system works. The heat pipe on the 867 MHz / 1 GHz generation (model) of the TiBook runs directly to the blower in the rear right corner, and the blower forcibly expels the heat directly from the vent. This differs from the passive system in the 667/800 DVI generation where three heat pipes direct the heat into the body of the PowerBook, leaving the enclosure to absorb and dissipate that heat while the fan is activated only as an auxiliary device to help move air around. As a side note and testament to the intent behind the new design, the Rev. 3.2 MPC7455 (G4) in the 1 GHz TiBook consumes about the same power as the Rev. 2.1 MPC7455 that was in the 800 DVI. Also note that the cooling system in the 667/800 DVI was already greatly revised from the one in the 550/667 MHz generation (model) that proceeded it.

Of course, this explanation refers to systems running as they should. The problems that CyberPet and a few others experienced with defective hardware are another problem. While noise is a highly subjective matter, anybody who experiences fan behaviour outside what they consider normal should not hesitate to have it looked at by a professional service person.

squish · Feb 16, 2003, 03:31 PM

As a side note and testament to the intention of the new design, the Rev. 3.2 MPC7455 (G4) in the 1 GHz TiBook consumes about the same power as the Rev. 2.1 MPC7455 that was in the 800 DVI.

if they consume the same amount of power, then why does the Ghz model require more cooling? wouldn't the fact that they consume the same amount of power prove that the Ghz could be using the passive cooling method of the 800DVI?

issa · Feb 16, 2003, 03:41 PM

The main point was not that it requires more cooling, rather that Apple found a more effective way to move heat out of the PowerBook. The 667/800 DVI, as good as it is, still gets noticeably hotter on the bottom, along the back of the enclosure, and inside. Consider it this way. The newest model (generation) represents further evolution of a cooling system that was changing with every new model.

cambro · Feb 17, 2003, 05:03 PM

1Ghz Combo, 1024 MB RAM
Machine model: PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2
OS 10.2.x

I have not experienced any fan noise that is excessive (see my other posts as Wayland points out). When plugged in and working, it is common to have quiet back right(?) fan on, but the "loud" fan rarely (i.e., never) comes on when doing anything but playing games. On battery, fans are all but a non-issue unless doing serious graphics/games.

good luck Wayland! I hope your efforts pay off (in the long run if not in the short

)

tonewheel · Feb 21, 2003, 11:36 AM

Gigabook, maxed out here. Yep, fan issue exists with my machine.

Interesting to note that as soon as the "jet engine" began, I pulled off the keyboard and put my fingers on the heat sinks. Just warm to the touch, not burning hot as we know they get. Doesn't seem the heat warrants both fans coming on when they do.

Corinthian · Feb 21, 2003, 01:46 PM

Same problem observed in my TiBook.
Spec: 1GHz, 512MB, SD, 10.2.4, 4.5.3f2 boot ram.....

though I acknowledge the fact that this is a problem, I am not irritated. It's the best, of course, to get the matter resolved if that's really a problem.

off/lang · Feb 21, 2003, 03:32 PM

1Ghz SD, 1 GB RAM
Machine model: PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2

My machine is fine. The fan is only loud after about twenty minutes of Distributed.net or similar. Soon after the CPU load goes down the fan goes silent.

I love this machine. It is amazing.

Leaf · Feb 22, 2003, 01:56 AM

Machine model PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.3)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2
1 GHz SD

No fan issues. Very quiet in my opinion. Both run sometimes but they always shut off.

LarsCA · Feb 22, 2003, 02:31 AM

I just got my TiBook today and have barely figured out how to use it yet. But I've been doing some Photoshop work, lots of internet surfing, watched a DVD and configured air ports and tried the printer, but so far no annoying fan problems. Could it be because I have the PB up on an iCurve stand, so there's lots of air underneath it? Just a thought.

Specs: Machine model Powerbook 3.5 (3.3)
BootROM 4.5.3f2

Bye the way, the Airport connection range was disappointing. I can be anywhere inside the house, but if I'd like to sit out on my patio and surf the net, forget it. Now, of course I can't see the importance of being able to sit outside and surf the net, but what if I had a bigger house?

Leaf · Feb 22, 2003, 04:24 AM

LarsCA - I know this is off-topic but try this out with regards to your AirPort reception.

seanyepez · Feb 22, 2003, 05:44 AM

My PowerBook's rear fan only comes on when the machine's charging and running CPU-intensive programs at the same time. My PowerBook's side fan comes on after two or three minutes of full processor load. It turns off after it's been idling for a few minutes.

Leaf · Feb 22, 2003, 07:03 AM

Mine turn off regardless of whether or not I'm using the PowerBook. Sure if it's a resource intensive game or running SETI@Home they will be on, but if I'm just browsing the web or watching video files they will shut off on their own.

tullamore · Feb 22, 2003, 03:23 PM

Mine right side fan is on most of the time, but you can't hear it at all, you need to put your hand in front of it to tell it is on. The center fan runs very rarely and I don't even hear it when it is running either. I am very happy with the way it works. For those with problems why don't you turn the processor down when you don't really need the full speed.

vsurfer · Feb 22, 2003, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by STH:
PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
4.5.3f2
......I've worked for hours in complete silence

PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
Boot ROM info 4.5.3f2

1 Ghz/SD/1024MB

My experience is pretty much as per STH. Generally find the machine is very quiet indeed, except when charging.

b3b0p · Feb 23, 2003, 12:41 AM

I have a Tibook SD w/ 1GB RAM and the bloody thing is driving me up the wall. I am so tempted just to eBay it. It bothers me that much. I so want to like this machine (it is awsome otherwise), but the fan is just so obnoxious.

Maybe I am just alittle more sensitive than most people, but to me it just sounds so loud.

This Tibook was baught from an Apple store in Illinois on Christmas Eve. And the fan comes on after just few minutes it seems most times I turn it on.

I have the same system profiler settings as Wayland and his description of when the fans come on seems to be about what I am experiencing.

I am with Wayland on this. If this can't get fixed by Apple I may have to sell this (I hope they fixed this in the 17"). Mine bothers me that much.

Chris

Troll · Feb 23, 2003, 06:10 AM

PowerBook3,5 (version = 3.2)
Boot ROM Info 4.5.3f2

My 867 'Book seems to behave differently to the others described here.

After about 20 minutes of web browsing with iTunes running, the rear fan comes on (irrespective of whether I'm charging or not). If I'm on AC, the right fan will come on pretty soon thereafter irrespective of the load. The right fan usually turns off a few minutes later, but the rear fan runs constantly until I turn it off and give it a chance to cool down or shut everything down and leave it for 20 minutes or so.

I now have a noisy rear fan, so I need to send it back to Apple anyway. I may ask them to check out the fan, but it looks like Apple has their head in the sand on this one!