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Spliff · Jul 25, 2006, 05:29 AM

Here's another blog article about why OS X has gone in the toilet and how Mac users suck and how Linux is soooo awesome.

Why I ditched my Mac for Linux

Related to this is the whining at ResExcellence about how mean Mac users are compared to the nice folks that use Linux.

Bryan O'Bryan (!), author of the blog article, has switched to Linux. Why? Because of three things.

1) The Mac Community: we're a mean, hostile, picky bunch who complain about free software. In comparison, Windows and Linux users are friendly, good-natured, and cuddly. They also pay for software, unlike cheapskate Mac users.

2) Apple and their practices: Apple is mean because they copy apps like Watson and Konfabulator without paying for them. Microsoft is more likely to buy the apps from the developers.

3) Apple’s software quality: In short, it's gone to hell. I agree with this point, to a certain degree. Apple's software qualilty has been inconsistent. He goes on about how iWeb and Garageband failed him for podcasts, but Audacity (a Linux port) came to the rescue:

So we moved to using Audacity under Linux. Did it crash? No. Is it harder to use? Yes. But, you know what? At least we can get the job done.

Of these three, Bryan says that the Mac community is the worst part. If Mac users were nicer, he'd stick with the platform. But we suck, so he is moving on to the utopian culture of the Linux community.

Dr.Michael · 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Spliff

1) The Mac Community: we're a mean, hostile, picky bunch who complain about free software. In comparison, Windows and Linux users are friendly, good-natured, and cuddly. They also pay for software, unlike cheapskate Mac users.

From all I have read this is completely wrong.
Among Mac users the percentage of paid software is the highest (don't remember the source). Windows users are poor shareware payers and - did you ever see a linux user who pays for software ?

Edit
####
I have forgotten: in science there are a lot of linux nerds. Ask one for help: in 80% of the time the answer is this (three parts)
1. man, you are stupid
2. ?*)/&§$?]" (gibberish that is supposed to be the solution of your problem)
3. don't understand? (sometimes 1. again) + help yourself (only talks to intelligent people)

Apart from this, linux users are really nice folks.

kmkkid · Jul 25, 2006, 05:52 AM

Wait till he has a problem and seeks help, those elitist linux users will come straight to the rescue!

Dakar · Jul 25, 2006, 08:11 AM

I was gonna post this but I forget why. Hopefully I'll remember when my mind wakes up in 2 hours.

willed · Jul 25, 2006, 08:17 AM

Sorry, who is this guy and why should I care about his opinion?

Adam Betts · Jul 25, 2006, 09:49 AM

Typical nerd that wanted some attention about their "switch."

No one cares. You like Linux more? Go for it.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 09:52 AM

All of his points are valid. You just have to decide if it is worth switching over it.

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

All of his points are valid. You just have to decide if it is worth switching over it.

The first one isn't. I gave up Mac elitism in 11th grade, and I still get nothing but a hard time from my PC buddies.

waxcrash · Jul 25, 2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Adam Betts

Typical nerd that wanted some attention about their "switch."

No one cares. You like Linux more? Go for it.

The next thing he'll be complaining about is how linux users are fat, smelly, hippies with beards.

Doofy · Jul 25, 2006, 10:17 AM

Last time I went to a Linux forum looking for a little help all I got was "RTFM". Very helpful.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

The first one isn't. I gave up Mac elitism in 11th grade, and I still get nothing but a hard time from my PC buddies.

Ok well if you did than I guess that mean everyone else also

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

All of his points are valid. You just have to decide if it is worth switching over it.

Linux users are some of the most famously arrogant folks on the Internet. I don't see how "Mac users are mean and Linux users are nice" is a valid point.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 25, 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

All of his points are valid. You just have to decide if it is worth switching over it.

I don't agree.

I'm not mean... or hostile (SWG, you might agree because you are notorious for being rude on this board). I don't pick apart [or aggressively criticize] free software.

Am I "picky" or do I simply have higher standards?

I pay for ALL of my software. CS2, Office, Quark, Transmit, iLife, iWork, etc. etc. ALL properly licensed. I also purchase all shareware that I use on any type of regularity. His problem may be the fact that if I don't like the program, I won't purchase it.

Last time I checked... Apple wasn't breaking any laws regarding their software practices. I guess we should be hard on Apple and look the other way to what Microsoft has done in the past. Also, you named TWO pieces of software that Apple created in house... I can name a number of programs they purchased (iTunes, Nothing Real, Astarte, GmbH, etc. etc.)

Apple's software has been a little on the sluggish side for me, but I'm on older hardware. That being said, it still functions. Most of the 1.0 releases are a bit buggy... but it's better than a project that's been in 0.0.019199 beta for years like much open source.

Sounds like a Linux fanboy.

pierrelourens · Jul 25, 2006, 10:31 AM

I'm disregarding this as a Linux fanboy trying to get some attention. I switched on June 3rd and joined several online communities, all of which have treated me well. Next.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 25, 2006, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Linux users are some of the most famously arrogant folks on the Internet. I don't see how "Mac users are mean and Linux users are nice" is a valid point.

I have yet to see anyone using Linux in public... yet if you talk to Linux user... it's everywhere.

I think the future of Linux is good... but their arrogance of how it's "sweeping the nation" is reality distortion field X1000.

Dr.Michael · Jul 25, 2006, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Last time I went to a Linux forum looking for a little help all I got was "RTFM". Very helpful.

, and in this case it does not mean "Read the **** manual", it means "Read the **** MANPAGE" - oh god.

MarathonDeskMount · Jul 25, 2006, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Linux users are some of the most famously arrogant folks on the Internet. I don't see how "Mac users are mean and Linux users are nice" is a valid point.

I'll toast you subnet freakin glamers!

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I don't agree.

I'm not mean... or hostile (SWG, you might agree because you are notorious for being rude on this board).

It is great to make a point about how you aren't trying to be "mean or hostile" and then insult someone.

Case closed

Doofy · Jul 25, 2006, 10:45 AM

It's interesting, no? We all insult each other like there's no tomorrow here in the NN lounge (I see it as friendly ribbing, in most instances), yet when anyone needs any help we all pull together and get the job done.

I like that.

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Ok well if you did than I guess that mean everyone else also

I think you need to stop trying to make my posts stupid. I mentioned that I gave up elitism to show that PC people hate my Macs even though I say nothing about their PCs. But that wouldn't make good grounds for using the

smiley so you should probably assume I meant something different.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I think you need to stop trying to make my posts stupid. I mentioned that I gave up elitism to show that PC people hate my Macs even though I say nothing about their PCs. But that wouldn't make good grounds for using the

smiley so you should probably assume I meant something different.

"The first one isn't. I gave up Mac elitism in 11th grade"

With that statement you are saying point #1 is not true overall because you don't do it.

If you meant something else be more clear about it.

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

"The first one isn't. I gave up Mac elitism in 11th grade"

With that statement you are saying point #1 is not true overall because you don't do it.

If you meant something else be more clear about it.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

The first one isn't. I gave up Mac elitism in 11th grade, and I still get nothing but a hard time from my PC buddies.

My goodness, you're trying awfully hard to hate me. I went ahead and bolded the part that you left out, including the comma. If you're not familiar with commas, they usually separate statements within a sentence. In this case the first statement lead to and helped clarify the second. If that's too hard to understand perhaps you should, as you've suggested to me before, have your cat explain it to you.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

My goodness, you're trying awfully hard to hate me. I went ahead and bolded the part that you left out, including the comma. If you're not familiar with commas, they usually separate statements within a sentence. In this case the first statement lead to and helped clarify the second. If that's too hard to understand perhaps you should, as you've suggested to me before, have your cat explain it to you.

Why is it that your posts always make me sleepy?

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Why is it that your posts always make me sleepy?

It always makes me smile when you resort to the sleepy smiley, because that means you realize you were quite wrong, but there's no way you're going to admit it, especially to me. I'll accept your apology though.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

It always makes me smile when you resort to the sleepy smiley, because that means you realize you were quite wrong, but there's no way you're going to admit it, especially to me. I'll accept your apology though.

Take that in whatever manner makes you feel better.

Oh and

SirCastor · Jul 25, 2006, 11:21 AM

I have to agree that there's a large portion of linux users that are arrogant. I realize Mac users are too, but in a different way. There was an article on Slashdot a while back where the question was asked if the Linux community was really pushing away new users because of their arrogance. The writer noted that when asking a simple question he got the "RTFM noob" answer.

Pretty distressing for a new user looking for help.

Robert A.M. Stephens · Jul 25, 2006, 11:25 AM

Good Lord our culture in this country has become so needy and whiny, with whimps and hand wringers, whereby the women are manly and the men are nervous.

Amazing.

Robert

olePigeon · Jul 25, 2006, 11:26 AM

He's going to change his mind the instant he asks a Linux related question on IRC. The channel moderator will probably tell him stfu rtfm noob, then DOS him, then kick him from the channel.

Anyone remember Hotline? It was a GUI based BBS system of sorts. Used to be Mac only. Nice, closenit community. Then the Windows version came out. Practically over night the servers were swamped with virus-infected warez, pay-sites, and child porn. That's the classic example of what I think the Windows community is like.

After that, Mac users defected to Carracho. By then the Mac users seemed so paranoid about losing their community again, they all became like Linux users.

Rumor · Jul 25, 2006, 11:38 AM

Well **** you Bryan. You ****ing whining pansy.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Anyone remember Hotline? It was a GUI based BBS system of sorts. Used to be Mac only. Nice, closenit community. Then the Windows version came out. Practically over night the servers were swamped with virus-infected warez, pay-sites, and child porn. That's the classic example of what I think the Windows community is like.

After that, Mac users defected to Carracho. By then the Mac users seemed so paranoid about losing their community again, they all became like Linux users.

Actually I remember Hotline being really snotty and rude from day 1.

I friggin' hated it.

Robert A.M. Stephens · Jul 25, 2006, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

He's going to change his mind the instant he asks a Linux related question on IRC. The channel moderator will probably tell him stfu rtfm noob, then DOS him, then kick him from the channel.

Anyone remember Hotline? It was a GUI based BBS system of sorts. Used to be Mac only. Nice, closenit community. Then the Windows version came out. Practically over night the servers were swamped with virus-infected warez, pay-sites, and child porn. That's the classic example of what I think the Windows community is like.

After that, Mac users defected to Carracho. By then the Mac users seemed so paranoid about losing their community again, they all became like Linux users.

That is perfect. I remember that exactly. And your description of the end of that regime is correct as well. Now, we are left with the effective but sterile world of Limewire or guntela network and that's it. The Elan is gone. Too bad.

remember trading the latest Marathon PMs, and discussing cool stuff about the latest ram sticks, buying a mac type just so we could play Marathon better, and what was screwed up at Apple under the leadership of Shwindler before Jobs returned, etc etc.....Good place, that...................

Right on!

Robert

mdc · Jul 25, 2006, 12:02 PM

My opinion is that if he prefers Linux, then good for him, and I hope he gets the 'publicity' he wanted with his little switch post.

I have a problem with this:

In my own Mac experience I ran a free Mac website and was greeted with an absolutely immense amount of hostility. I have also release free (and, in some cases, incredibly inexpensive) Mac software and was greeted with hostility there as well.

Now, you might say… this is just the way it is. Sometimes people get mean and I should just get tougher skin. Except… it’s not.

I’ve also released Windows and Linux applications and the response overwhelmingly positive. And, oftentimes, this was for applications that were direct ports (of, often, lower quality) of the Mac versions I’d already gotten hell about.

and

Sure, Linux users have come to expect open source and free software. And many of them balk when presented with commercial software. But, amazingly enough, the Linux community at large seems to be much more open to the concept of paying for your software than the Mac community. Of course that will be put to the ultimate test as I begin to release software for Linux.

I bolded my issues.

pierrelourens · Jul 25, 2006, 12:07 PM

*snort*

OldManMac · Jul 25, 2006, 12:10 PM

More generalizations, based on one person's opinions.

pierrelourens · Jul 25, 2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

More generalizations, based on one person's opinions.

And unfortunately, it is stuff like this that gets out more than the good stuff (i.e. I've had a great switch and have been helped in many online communities)

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2006, 12:18 PM

Oh, so he was just a lousy dev who didn't want to improve, so he took his stuff to people with lower standards? I guess that's fair. It's the flip side of Wil Shipley's idea that the Mac market is good because Mac users truly appreciate good software.

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 12:22 PM

I'd like to see what he made.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 25, 2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

It is great to make a point about how you aren't trying to be "mean or hostile" and then insult someone.

Case closed

My point is, there is a VERY vocal minority on this board that thinks it's funny to be rude to other users.

imitchellg5 · Jul 25, 2006, 01:21 PM

In my expierience Mac users are nicer and Linux users are mean and grumpy and stuck up to even consider using another OS. I'll use Windows or something else if I have too.

Spliff · Jul 25, 2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by willed

Sorry, who is this guy and why should I care about his opinion?

I believe it's actually Bryan Lund, the chief editor of ResExcellence.com. I think he got in over his head trying to maintain ResExcellence.com. It's really gone down hill over the past few months and now he's trying to blame angry Mac users. You can read their whining at ResExcellence.com (I linked to it in the original post).

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Spliff

I believe it's actually Bryan Lund, the chief editor of ResExcellence.com. I think he got in over his head trying to maintain ResExcellence.com. It's really gone down hill over the past few months and now he's trying to blame angry Mac users. You can read their whining at ResExcellence.com (I linked to it in the original post).

Ah whatever, his site is just a bite off of mine from 1996 anyway

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2006, 03:18 PM

What site did you have in '96?

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

What site did you have in '96?

MacOver

It was on how to customize your interface on your Mac. It wasn't the first but it was the largest and most popular by far.

Salty · Jul 25, 2006, 04:17 PM

Hmm... so he asked for help in the lounge eh? We're not that bad... just... a good number

.

Seriously though when you run into a problem the Mac community can be amazing. And what Mac user doesn't love helping others?

lpkmckenna · Jul 25, 2006, 04:39 PM

Of his 3 "reasons" for switching, I can't believe he actually named Apple's business practices. If he's angry about Dashboard and Sherlock: why did it take him almost 2 years to notice?

Regarding the "nasty Mac community," it looks like this guy helped drive a previously well-run website into the ground. Then, he was surprised the visitors of ResExcellence were mad about it. :rolleyes"

Regarding "Apple quality has gone down the toilet," it sounds like bitching and whining of John Manzione from MacNETv2 several years ago.

kick52 · Jul 25, 2006, 04:39 PM

what? our community is calm, peaceful and we welcome noobs with open arms....

Gossamer · Jul 25, 2006, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by kick52

what? our community is calm, peaceful and we welcome noobs with open arms....

I do honestly believe this...even when people post a 'stupid' question on these forums and state they've just switched, they usually get a 'welcome to our side' and a nice explanation of basic features and such, along with a gentle reminder to search.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Regarding "Apple quality has gone down the toilet," it sounds like bitching and whining of John Manzione from MacNETv2 several years ago.

I don't know how they do it but MacNETv2 is the most irrelevant, least seen Mac related site on the web.

You literally never hear anything from them unless they are complaining about Mac's or Apple which comes up once very 3 years.

I can't stand it when a tiny company takes every opportunity to make themselves sound like a giant corporation:

"In an environment where things change constantly the team of writers, illustrators, and photographers that work here at MacNETv2 must be able to access every version of a story, a graphic or a photograph in order to make sure nothing gets published that shouldnít."

Who here can picture a "TEAM" of illustrators at MacNetv2?

With stories like this you wonder why they don't all just switch:
http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=606_0_1_0

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2006, 04:51 PM

I'd never heard of them before. It looks like they update semiannually.

Landos Mustache · Jul 25, 2006, 04:59 PM

I found that when running my mac themed site many of the visitors were rather bitchy also.

It was a split really but I guess you get that no matter what the topic is.