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Microsoft Surface
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goMac
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May 30, 2007, 01:25 AM
 
Microsoft is announcing a giant touchscreen table with multitouch:

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

Patent issues aside, I don't see this as being the future. The future of computer is something you carry everywhere with you, not a giant table stuck in your living room. The device syncing looks cool, but I think Apple's right on this one. Multitouch in the portable space will rule in the end.
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Dark_Lotus
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May 30, 2007, 01:29 AM
 
I still think its a giant leap in technology. I want to know how it interacts with phones, credit cards, and even drinks just by having them set on the table. I can understand the credit card and maybe even the phones, but the drinks? how does that work? As big of an Apple fan that I am, I still give major props to microsoft for this.
     
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May 30, 2007, 01:35 AM
 
It's certainly ambitious and interesting, but I see failure in its near future.
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May 30, 2007, 01:41 AM
 
I'd like to see multi-touch in general in MacBooks and Pros, remove the keyboard and trackpad and stick a multi-touch screen there (a MacBook/Pro DS if you will). Specific apps could take advantage of this and, in the case of GarageBand, have different instruments, ie. a piano. (if that app is a normal one [takes no advantage of multi-touch] a virtual keyboard and trackpad take the screens place.)

I could go on and on about the possibilities, but its 1 AM and I'm tired.
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Chuckit
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May 30, 2007, 01:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
I'd like to see multi-touch in general in MacBooks and Pros, Remove the keyboard and trackpad and stick a multi-touch screen there (a MacBook/Pro DS if you will).
It's taking all my willpower not to post this in a 28-point bold red font: NO! Just because you don't know how to use a freakin' keyboard doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished for it.
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May 30, 2007, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Just because you don't know how to use a freakin' keyboard doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished for it.
Excuse me? I know how to use a keyboard.
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Chuckit
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May 30, 2007, 01:54 AM
 
You can't touch-type on a touchscreen. If you're a hunt-and-peck typist, sure, it makes no difference, but there's a huge difference between what you can do with a touchscreen and what you can do with a keyboard.
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May 30, 2007, 01:59 AM
 
I'm seriously excited about this. Right now the demo is fairly basic, nothing groundbreaking but it has huge potential.

Xbox 360 dept. is the one who's building this technology. They're the only department in Microsoft that doesn't suck.
     
Chuckit
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May 30, 2007, 02:13 AM
 
Xbox 360 department…so we can expect these things to have a lifespan of about half a year?
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May 30, 2007, 02:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Adam Betts View Post
Xbox 360 dept. is the one who's building this technology. They're the only department in Microsoft that doesn't suck.
Especially considering how crowd-pleasingy reliable the XBox 360 has been since its launch.
This post is saturated heavily with sarcasm. Please note.

[EDIT] Beat by a matter of roughly 30 seconds...
     
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May 30, 2007, 02:22 AM
 
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MindFad
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May 30, 2007, 02:35 AM
 
Cool. I remember seeing a demo of something very similar (a guy at a screen doing various things like managing photos, using a Google Earth-type app, playing simple games), but I don't remember what show it was from. I don't think it had anything to do with Microsoft, but I've seen this multi-touch-computing-on-a-big-screen idea demoed somewhere....
     
zro
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May 30, 2007, 02:39 AM
 
Wait a tic... What happened to MS's Flash killer? Flash was all over that page like a monkey ****in' a football.

Other than that, this is a killer concept. Though I doubt we'll ever see this used as a coffee or cocktail table.
     
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May 30, 2007, 02:44 AM
 
I think the possibilities are great. But all of what I've seen looks like a tech demo from the internet (I've seen a few of those, e. g. by Sony and some university labs). The way the devices connect is just awesome -- if it works. Much of it reminded me of the iPhone. I'm not saying one got inspired by the other, but that both use similar concepts: good news for the user. But I have yet to see what kind of apps there are for Surface. If you don't have `killer apps', the whole thing will be ill-fated.
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Peter
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May 30, 2007, 02:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
Wait a tic... What happened to MS's Flash killer? Flash was all over that page like a monkey ****in' a football.

Other than that, this is a killer concept. Though I doubt we'll ever see this used as a coffee or cocktail table.
the "Flash Killer" is doing really well actually, AND its very very cool.


And this tablet looks equally awesome. Microsoft is doing some really awesome stuff at the moment.
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goMac  (op)
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May 30, 2007, 03:11 AM
 
Surface isn't actually a touchscreen. It uses infared cameras.

Microsoft Surface - Behind the Scenes with VIDEO - Touchscreen, Multi Touch Coffee Table - Ballmer - Jeff Han - PlayTable - Popular Mechanics

Not as good as Apple's implementation...
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May 30, 2007, 04:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
the "Flash Killer" is doing really well actually, AND its very very cool.
Wait, you're talking about Silverlight, right? Not some other Flash-killer that's actually cooler than Flash in any appreciable way?
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May 30, 2007, 04:37 AM
 
great, i have seen a demo of just the exact type of technology 1 year ago. microsoft bought the company and gave it a name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLhMVNdplJc i see no difference
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Peter
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May 30, 2007, 05:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Wait, you're talking about Silverlight, right? Not some other Flash-killer that's actually cooler than Flash in any appreciable way?
Yes, silverlight.
Its cool because the developer tools are amazing and its super quick.
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May 30, 2007, 06:49 AM
 
This is the future.

No need for a computer sitting in the corner when your coffee table does everything you need it to.
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Super Mario
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May 30, 2007, 07:11 AM
 
Why should I care about Leopard or Vista now? I think I'll wait until I can buy this tech.
( Last edited by Super Mario; Jan 10, 2018 at 03:47 PM. )
     
Visnaut
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May 30, 2007, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Yes, silverlight.
Its cool because the developer tools are amazing...
...and amazingly Windows only. I'm sorry, but I don't buy into Microsoft's brand of altruism.
     
Visnaut
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May 30, 2007, 07:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Why should I care about Leopard or Vista now? I think I'll wait until I can buy this tech.
In all fairness, the final feature set for Leopard hasn't been revealed. With all the work they've been doing on the iPhone's interface, maybe there will be a touch-screen interface included in Leopard for use in a new class of devices that Apple is planning.
     
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May 30, 2007, 07:32 AM
 
Looks pretty cool. Can't wait to start seeing something like this in mainstream solutions.
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May 30, 2007, 07:44 AM
 
Microsoft/Apple/Who cares? That thing is pretty cool regardless of who made it.
     
kmkkid
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May 30, 2007, 07:53 AM
 
Looks cool, but I don't know if I'd want to trust my coffee table with my expenses, especially when it's running windows. Bank machines fine, they are designed to be secure and have fallbacks. AFAIK coffee tables within the home environment aren't.
     
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May 30, 2007, 08:02 AM
 
I can't help thinking that whoever insisted that every demo video includes an example of how it's used at a restaurant or bar has never had more than a single drink in one. Alone.
     
analogika
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May 30, 2007, 08:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid View Post
Looks cool, but I don't know if I'd want to trust my coffee table with my expenses, especially when it's running windows. Bank machines fine, they are designed to be secure and have fallbacks. AFAIK coffee tables within the home environment aren't.
I was thinking the same thing, but then a) a lot of ATMs run on NT, and b) what they're doing in those demos is not that much different from buying stuff on the internet with your credit card, which is pretty widespread "within the home environment".
     
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May 30, 2007, 08:22 AM
 
Wow, I'm really liking this.
     
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May 30, 2007, 09:15 AM
 
This could be really useful in a business environment - imagine a marketing or advertising department being able to work naturally with their software/materials - and the fact that more than one person can work with it simultaneously is pretty freakin' cool.

I liked the end of the "Experience Surface" video where they're putting little mini-screens together to make a video image.

Looks neat!

Also, to the OP - multitouch may be handy in the portable world, but whose to say it can't have an implementation in the desktop environment, too? The technology is now there - I can see it being successful in both worlds.
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May 30, 2007, 10:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
the "Flash Killer" is doing really well actually, AND its very very cool.
I will be HIGHLY surprises if it dethrones Flash. MS's days of being able to take over technologies whenever they want to are gone.

They found this out with the iPOd. They are being watched too carefully, and simply have pissed too many people off.

Whenever I hear companies that use MS products talk about said products and dealings with MS it's never enthusiastic or positive.

MS needs to do something QUICK to change it's image. And Vista is simply not it.

Even XP didn't get the poo poo Vista has.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:07 AM
 
I saw nothing new in this video. The same being the case when I saw the multi-touch demonstrations for the iPhone. This isn't new technology, it's been around for at least two years, probably a bit longer now. I'm a bit disappointed that it's just now getting attention.
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May 30, 2007, 10:12 AM
 
Yeah a large iPhone. w00p.
     
analogika
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May 30, 2007, 10:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by PB2K View Post
great, i have seen a demo of just the exact type of technology 1 year ago. microsoft bought the company and gave it a name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLhMVNdplJc i see no difference
That is actually a *completely* different technology, which is based on touch-screens. The actual news in that YouTube video is that he's managed to make it very easily scalable and CHEAP to produce.

But an actual touch-screen is Highly Impractical for a coffee-table.

The interfacing - resizing, for example - has been around for quite a bit longer than that, IIRC.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
 
We all need the living room Mission Impossible
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:32 AM
 
While this does look interesting I can't imagine it'll work as smoothly as this video shows off.
Plug in an iPod or cellphone to your computer and it takes a handful of seconds before it recognizes it and starts syncing.
Plug in a camera and transfer photos to your computer takes minutes.
This video shows people putting a camera on the table and photos explode out of it, ready to be used.

How are the cameras, phones, and zunes communicating with the Surface? If it's bluetooth then the speed isn't going to be anywhere like this claims (especially transferring a few 6mp photos) and if it's wifi then everyone is going to have to buy a wifi camera?

I wonder how much these are going to cost?
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by PB2K View Post
great, i have seen a demo of just the exact type of technology 1 year ago. microsoft bought the company and gave it a name.

YouTube - Minority Report becomes reality i see no difference
Yup. Groundbreaking, huh? Aside from its origins, I can see this being useful in corporate kiosks, and that's about it. Without a portable implementation, it's going to remain a novelty to most people.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:42 AM
 
Oh, no - touch screen or table, the audio industry is going to be ALL OVER this kind of stuff.

I'd LOVE to have a multi-touch-screen mixer in Logic.

I'm not too familiar with that industry, but I assume video pros are drooling, too.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:45 AM
 
Good to see Jeff Han there. Isn't he the guy that was demoing this technology in videos posted here the past couple of years? Looks like MS snapped him (or his company) up.

I think it is going to be a pretty nifty bit of tech with some useful commercial applications. The biggest problem is that it is a rear projection system. I know that it needs to be this for the IR cameras to work but it makes the unit very deep (compared to current trends with LCDs) and the contrast is horrible. Black levels look terrible.

But these issues shouldn't cause it too many problems in the commercial world.

mdc - agree with all the points you raised. However, by the time these things are available to private users, a speeder wireless connection (Wifi etc) will probably be in most devices.

They are reported to be between US$5000-10000.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:46 AM
 
Didn't Apple make a big deal in PATENTING the way u use iphone when you ZOOM with two fingers?

Or did Apple just copy this company Perceptive Pixel that it seems MS has bought out as the Surface team?
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:46 AM
 
But is this better than an Optimus keyboard?
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:47 AM
 
If it works as well as it did in the video than it is the best thing ever to come out of MS. this is what I am hoping the Mac OS evolves into... and soon!
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:48 AM
 
It should be pretty useful for music and video but only for less complex actions. A finger has a much lower pointing resolution than a mouse curser. Can you imagine trying to move a particular slider up and down which is only a few mm away from another. Could get a bit messy. This physical technology will require quite a change in the design of software interfaces. One can see that is what MS (and their precursors) have done that with the interface on Surface but it is only for very simple actions.
     
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May 30, 2007, 10:55 AM
 
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May 30, 2007, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Oh, no - touch screen or table, the audio industry is going to be ALL OVER this kind of stuff.
Why? What is the advantage of this particular implementation (rear projection using IR cameras) over a normal touchscreen in the context of an audio app? Wouldn't a normal touchscreen be more cost effective? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking because I don't have expertise in that field.
     
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May 30, 2007, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Oh, no - touch screen or table, the audio industry is going to be ALL OVER this kind of stuff.

I'd LOVE to have a multi-touch-screen mixer in Logic.
Meh. I think I'll stick with the Penny and Giles.
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May 30, 2007, 11:07 AM
 
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goMac  (op)
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May 30, 2007, 11:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by jebjeb View Post
Good to see Jeff Han there. Isn't he the guy that was demoing this technology in videos posted here the past couple of years? Looks like MS snapped him (or his company) up.
They didn't. Microsoft just wants to make it look like they did, but he's still running his own company.
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May 30, 2007, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by PB2K View Post
great, i have seen a demo of just the exact type of technology 1 year ago. microsoft bought the company and gave it a name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLhMVNdplJc i see no difference
That's it. Awesome.
     
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May 30, 2007, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by mdc View Post
While this does look interesting I can't imagine it'll work as smoothly as this video shows off.
Plug in an iPod or cellphone to your computer and it takes a handful of seconds before it recognizes it and starts syncing.
Plug in a camera and transfer photos to your computer takes minutes.
This video shows people putting a camera on the table and photos explode out of it, ready to be used.
There are tons of issues that make the device compatibility they show unrealistic. First, the table is going to be able to find the devices wirelessly, but how is it going to know which physical device goes with which wireless device. The table is just going to see a bunch of wireless broadcasts. How is it going to know which physical device on the table is making that broadcast? You notice they speak about this part of the demo entirely in future tense. In other words, they don't have it working for releasable technology.

Second, Bluetooth isn't as insecure as the table makes it look. For the table to talk to your Bluetooth device, you're going to have to pair your device to the table. This is fine for the home, but for restaurants this causes a problem. And really, do you want to trust your device to freely talk to a table? You might put your cell phone on the table so the table can pull your credit card info, but what's to stop someone from programming the table to quietly pull your pictures and contact list too?
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