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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > The man who flew with TB: big deal or not?

The man who flew with TB: big deal or not?
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wallinbl
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May 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
 
If you haven't seen any of the news stories, a guy was diagnosed with TB shortly before his wedding/honeymoon. He was advised not to fly, but did it anyway. While in Europe, he was told that it was a very rare, very resistant form of TB and was told to turn himself over to health officials immediately. Since he was on a no fly list in the US, he arranged flights into Canada and then drove across the border into the US. He has since been quarantined and remains unnamed, presumably so that no one kicks his ass.

Flying to Europe in the first place was a questionable action, even if it's slightly understandable. Flying back was just downright wrong, especially considering the diversion necessary to avoid authorities. I imagine that anyone on those flights wants to kick this guy's ass, and wouldn't mind if he were charged with some kind of crime. While I'm not a big fan of police/government excess in pursuing people, I would probably laugh if they charged him with bioterrorism or something.

Regardless of any formal charges, once his name gets out, I'm betting that he has a pretty hard time of things. Would you hire the guy that did this? If you do, you run the risk that your other employees have no interest in working with him. I'd imagine your customers have no interest in dealing with him.
     
kmkkid
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May 31, 2007, 11:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
If you haven't seen any of the news stories, a guy was diagnosed with TB shortly before his wedding/honeymoon. He was advised not to fly, but did it anyway. While in Europe, he was told that it was a very rare, very resistant form of TB and was told to turn himself over to health officials immediately. Since he was on a no fly list in the US, he arranged flights into Canada and then drove across the border into the US. He has since been quarantined and remains unnamed, presumably so that no one kicks his ass.

Flying to Europe in the first place was a questionable action, even if it's slightly understandable. Flying back was just downright wrong, especially considering the diversion necessary to avoid authorities. I imagine that anyone on those flights wants to kick this guy's ass, and wouldn't mind if he were charged with some kind of crime. While I'm not a big fan of police/government excess in pursuing people, I would probably laugh if they charged him with bioterrorism or something.

Regardless of any formal charges, once his name gets out, I'm betting that he has a pretty hard time of things. Would you hire the guy that did this? If you do, you run the risk that your other employees have no interest in working with him. I'd imagine your customers have no interest in dealing with him.
He should be charged with assault for every confirmed infection, and manslaughter for any resulting deaths.
     
peeb
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May 31, 2007, 11:14 AM
 
Reckless, yes, but not a big deal. Here are some fun US death stats from 2001:
Severe:
Driving off the road - 254,419
Falling - 146,542
Accidental poisoning - 140,327

High:
Dying from work accidents - 59,730
Walking down street - 52,000
Accidental drowning - 38,302

Elevated:
Flu - 19,415
Hernia - 16,742

Moderate:
Accidental gun discharge - 8,536
Electrocution - 5,171

Low:
Being shot by law enforcement - 3,949
Terrorism - 3,147
Carbon monoxide in products - 1,554
     
ghporter
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May 31, 2007, 11:18 AM
 
His actions have the potential to make hundreds or thousands of people incredibly sick with a VERY hard to treat (and often ignored since it's "controlled" -even though it isn't) disease. "Oh, I think I'll go gamble with other people's lives on a whim, just because I don't want my honeymoon messed up." What an egotistical, pathological, sociopath!

He didn't think he should have to "be in solitary confinement" because he thought his highly treatment-resistant strain of TB was no big deal. I think Typhoid Mary thought the same way...

Put his butt in jail for endangering thousands of lives.

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Wiskedjak
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May 31, 2007, 11:29 AM
 
Agreed. Even if nobody gets sick from his actions, he should be charged with reckless endangerment.
     
wallinbl  (op)
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May 31, 2007, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid View Post
He should be charged with assault for every confirmed infection, and manslaughter for any resulting deaths.
I don't think he deserves to get out of punishment if no one else was infected. He still put all those people at risk, regardless of whether any of them wound up infected.
     
mac128k-1984
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May 31, 2007, 11:31 AM
 
I cannot believe how could justify getting on a plane when he was infected with one of the most infectious diseases known to man and he had a particular strain the was resistant to drugs.

By the way, his name was released by MSNBC - NBC: TB-scare man identified as Andrew Speaker, a 31-year-old attorney

An attorney no less, I smell lawsuits, he put so many people in jeopardy for what a trip.
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May 31, 2007, 11:40 AM
 
Glenn's completely right. The fact that he knew he had a very dangerous communicable disease and still chose to travel is criminal. The doctor who originally treated him should also be punished if he failed to timely inform the CDC.

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Dakarʒ
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May 31, 2007, 11:41 AM
 
When you have to drive to another country to travel, I think you know what you're doing.
     
mac128k-1984
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May 31, 2007, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
When you have to drive to another country to travel, I think you know what you're doing.
While I don't disagree with you, the difference between driving and flying is that you have a hundred or so passengers who are sharing the same air. This is why so many people catch colds after flying - somebody on the flight was sick and spread it around. Driving you're not exposing anyone and theoretically you could avoid contaminating people by wearing a mask - realistically this probably would not be the case.
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kmkkid
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May 31, 2007, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
I don't think he deserves to get out of punishment if no one else was infected. He still put all those people at risk, regardless of whether any of them wound up infected.
Oh I agree, he should be charged with reckless endangerment at least, and then the charges I suggested if anyone was indeed infected.
     
Dakarʒ
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May 31, 2007, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 View Post
While I don't disagree with you, the difference between driving and flying is that you have a hundred or so passengers who are sharing the same air. This is why so many people catch colds after flying - somebody on the flight was sick and spread it around. Driving you're not exposing anyone and theoretically you could avoid contaminating people by wearing a mask - realistically this probably would not be the case.
My implication was that if you have to go to the trouble of flying out of another country, then you are well aware of the seriousness of the situation.
     
Dork.
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May 31, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
I had to postpone my honeymoon because I came down with the Chicken Pox a day or two before the wedding, and my doctor told me not to fly. While we still had the wedding since it was in town, some of our older relatives stayed away out of fear of getting shingles. And I gave it to at least two people at the wedding who knew that I had it and they could get it, but came to the wedding anyway, which I still feel bad about. It sucked, but what can you do? (Once I recovered, we went on a smaller trip, then took the trip we were originally planning for our first anniversary, and it all turned out alright. I just couldn't really get trashed at the open bar I paid for, which I'm sure my wife didn't see as a problem. )

I can understand how frustrating it can be when you plan for an event for months (possibly years), and then some random event that is out of your control happens and you have to change your plans. But putting other people at risk for your own convenience is just irresponsible and wrong.
     
peeb
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May 31, 2007, 12:09 PM
 
Shingles sucks.
     
wallinbl  (op)
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May 31, 2007, 05:25 PM
 
The guy's an attorney - he should know better. On top of that, his dad works at the CDC on TB! Of all the people that should know better, it's this guy!
     
Wiskedjak
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May 31, 2007, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
his dad works at the CDC on TB!
hmmmm .... wonder how he contracted TB ...
     
wolfen
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May 31, 2007, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
The guy's an attorney - he should know better.
If he gave anyone his TB, he's a soon-to-be-bankrupt attorney.
Do you want forgiveness or respect?
     
cjrivera
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May 31, 2007, 06:47 PM
 
I'd love to see one of those "ambulance-chasing" type commercials about this guy on TV.

"Have you or someone you loved contracted TB and have been on a plane or been in contact with Atlanta personal injury attorney Andrew Speaker?Then you may be entitled to monetary compensation.
Please contact us at the law offices of Dewey, Skrewem, and Howe for a FREE CONSULTATION."
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May 31, 2007, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by cjrivera View Post
I'd love to see one of those "ambulance-chasing" type commercials about this guy on TV.

"Have you or someone you loved contracted TB and have been on a plane or been in contact with Atlanta personal injury attorney Andrew Speaker?Then you may be entitled to monetary compensation.
Please contact us at the law offices of Dewey, Skrewem, and Howe for a FREE CONSULTATION."
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bstone
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May 31, 2007, 08:43 PM
 
Big deal.
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ghporter
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May 31, 2007, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 View Post
While I don't disagree with you, the difference between driving and flying is that you have a hundred or so passengers who are sharing the same air. This is why so many people catch colds after flying - somebody on the flight was sick and spread it around. Driving you're not exposing anyone and theoretically you could avoid contaminating people by wearing a mask - realistically this probably would not be the case.
The deal is that since he KNEW the U.S. health authorities would be looking for him, he took a circuitous route back into the U.S. to evade them.

And attorneys are smart. He's a "lawyer," and not at all the sharpest tack in the box. Just one of the most dangerous.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
davesimondotcom
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May 31, 2007, 09:34 PM
 
The guy took no less than 5, as many as 7 flights after he was told he had TB.

Anyone who flies knows how easy it is to get sick on a flight with recirculated air, etc. But imagine if some of those people got infected, then went on to their next flight, infected others, and on and on.

This could start a pandemic, these were INTERNATIONAL flights, too.

This guy is a selfish jerk and should be charged with whatever crimes they can charge him with.
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OldManMac
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May 31, 2007, 10:07 PM
 
Now it appears that the border guard who let him in the country ignored a bulletin about this guy, because, according to the guard, he "seemed perfectly healthy!" What a moron! Throw the book at him as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...sis-infection/
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Captain Obvious
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Jun 1, 2007, 06:25 AM
 
Given that his father-in-law was an expert in the field and the period of time he was aware of the seriousness of his illness he was negligent and knowingly put others at risk. He didn't violate any U.S. laws but I'd be surprised if he didn't break quarantine laws in one of the other countries he passed through.

After his 6 month stay in the hospital we should extradite his ass to one of those countries so they can fine him into oblivion.
It should be pointed out that he is considering suing the US Govt for putting him in quarantine. That shouldn't get far as he took extraordinary measures to avoid surrendering himself to medical authorities after he was notified to do so before trying to reenter the country.

I missed Disney World when I was in 5th grade because of chicken pox. His wedding clearly wasn't as important as that.
( Last edited by Captain Obvious; Jun 1, 2007 at 06:39 AM. )

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Dork.
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Jun 1, 2007, 07:24 AM
 
This story gets stranger by the hour, it seems. Maybe we should just wait for the made-for-TV movie to come out before we make any judgements.
     
wallinbl  (op)
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Jun 1, 2007, 08:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
This story gets stranger by the hour, it seems. Maybe we should just wait for the made-for-TV movie to come out before we make any judgements.
TB right before your wedding? Low odds. Actually testing positive for a really rare strain? Rare. An attorney that should know the law and can't claim ignorance? Okay, not that rare. His father in law works at the CDC on TB? Okay, that's rare! A guy nutty enough to reroute flights through Canada? If not rare, it at least requires balls. A border guard fool enough to disregard the bulletin? Sheesh!

It's so good, I keep wondering if it's a fake.
     
Goldfinger
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Jun 1, 2007, 08:45 AM
 
Being diagnosed with TB doesn't mean that the disease is in the transmittable stage yet. You can have it but, it can lay dormant for months or even years or it can even never develop into transmittable TB.

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irunat2am
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Jun 1, 2007, 09:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
Now it appears that the border guard who let him in the country ignored a bulletin about this guy, because, according to the guard, he "seemed perfectly healthy!" What a moron! Throw the book at him as well.

Border Worker Disregarded TB Warning | The Huffington Post
Ahaha. That's just classic. WOW!
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ghporter
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Jun 1, 2007, 10:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
Being diagnosed with TB doesn't mean that the disease is in the transmittable stage yet. You can have it but, it can lay dormant for months or even years or it can even never develop into transmittable TB.
The "new" forms of TB are odd enough that, once it was determined that it was an EXTREMELY resistant strain, he should have been quarantined and treated IMMEDIATELY. There is no telling how fast these new strains progress.

Anyone that doesn't believe in evolutionary change should consider this: TB used to be just TB. But then we started treating it with antibiotics. And some people didn't take all their medicine, so not all the TB got killed. "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" is more than just a phrase-it happens in bacteria all the time, and TB is a great example. It's not that we're "discovering new strains" of TB, we're MAKING them-mostly through idiots not taking all their drugs and not following up to make sure the bugs are dead, dead, DEAD.

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