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hyteckit · Oct 21, 2009, 03:10 AM

There seems to be a growing support for legalizing Marijuana.

U.S. Support for Legalizing Marijuana Reaches New High

Liberals support - 78%
Moderate support - 46%
Conservative support - 27%

The Obama administration tells federal authorities not to prosecute users and suppliers following state laws, reversing Bush's position.

U.S. backs off medical marijuana policy -- latimes.com

Judge rules L.A.'s ban on new medical marijuana dispensaries is invalid

Judge rules L.A.'s ban on new medical marijuana dispensaries is invalid -- latimes.com

I don't smoke and rarely drink alcohol. I say if alcohol is legal, they should legalize Marijuana.

Seems like a big waste of time, resources, and money for government to enforce the ban on Marijuana.

A majority of conservatives still against legalizing Marijuana. Why do conservatives keep wanting our government to control ours lives and telling us what we can or cannot buy?

Conservatives say no to Marijuana, sex toys, and porn. What's next? No gay marriages?

PS: marijuana, sex toys, and porn might not be a good combination because that might end up with a trip to the emergency room.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 03:54 AM

The two sides on this issue are basically:

1. People who support legalizing marijuana

2. People who have been taken in by propaganda

BadKosh · Oct 21, 2009, 01:12 PM

Yeah...we need more addictive drugs and such legalized. Just think how well you will be able to make decisions!

The Final Dakar · Oct 21, 2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Yeah...we need more addictive drugs and such legalized. Just think how well you will be able to make decisions!

Is that what you do?

SpaceMonkey · Oct 21, 2009, 01:17 PM

Mrjinglesusa · Oct 21, 2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The two sides on this issue are basically:

1. People who support legalizing marijuana

2. People who have been taken in by propaganda

Case in point...

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Yeah...we need more addictive drugs and such legalized. Just think how well you will be able to make decisions!

And tell me, how is marijuana's effect on your decision making ANY different than the effect of alcohol on your decision making?

Hypocite: A person who does NOT support the legalization of marijuana but thinks the sale and consumption of alcohol is perfectly fine.

To be consistent in one's rationale and reasoning, if you beleive marijuana should be illegal you must also support making sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. If you don't, you're a hypocrite and inconsistent in your beliefs. The same reasoning one uses to support keeping marijuana illegal can be EQUALLY applied to alcohol.

kido331 · Oct 21, 2009, 01:29 PM

i can be in a room filled with people drinking and not get drunk.

ort888 · Oct 21, 2009, 01:30 PM

At the very least it needs to be decriminalized. Stop wasting our tax dollars chasing and incarcerating potheads.

That said, I say we legalize it, regulate it and tax the crap out of it.

It would be a huge boost for the economy. Funyon sales would be through the roof.

As soon as it looks like legalization might actually happen, I'm liquidating everything I own and buying as much stock in Frito-Lays as I can. That's actually my current retirement plan.

olePigeon · Oct 21, 2009, 01:33 PM

ATFE needs to add an M to their acronym and regulate it like alcohol and tobacco. Tax it like the other two.

I'm surprised Philip Morris and the other cigarette companies aren't lobbying for it. They're the only companies right now that have the facilities to mass produce marijuana. They could be making a ton of money.

olePigeon · Oct 21, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by kido331

i can be in a room filled with people drinking and not get drunk.

Which is why many states don't allow smoking inside public buildings. Some cities don't allow smoking in public areas, period.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

ATFE needs to add an M to their acronym and regulate it like alcohol and tobacco. Tax it like the other two.

I'm surprised Philip Morris and the other cigarette companies aren't lobbying for it. They're the only companies right now that have the facilities to mass produce marijuana. They could be making a ton of money.

My understanding from friends is that marijuana is easy to grow and prepare yourself, more so than tobacco. My guess is they don't want to get into that.

ort888 · Oct 21, 2009, 02:00 PM

"Friends" right...

Tomatoes are easy to grow also, but 99% of the population buys them at the grocery store.

Tobacco Companies would make a fortune.

The Final Dakar · Oct 21, 2009, 02:05 PM

That's a good point. Even if 1 in 5 people grew their own, 80% of the population would be buying from someone.

ort888 · Oct 21, 2009, 02:07 PM

Making your own booze isn't that hard either, and the alcohol industry is doing just fine.

Growing pot is not that easy. Plus, potheads are lazy.

The Final Dakar · Oct 21, 2009, 02:08 PM

Yep, lots of people microbrew. 'Course, alcohol is a little more varied than pot (as far as I know)

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

"Friends" right...

Tomatoes are easy to grow also, but 99% of the population buys them at the grocery store.

Tobacco Companies would make a fortune.

True, it's more like acquaintances, but whatever. At any rate, most people who use tomatoes are not tomato aficionados. Marijuana is more comparable to cigarettes than tomatoes. Unless cannabutter recipes become popular, I don't think weed would be quite the same as that.

finboy · Oct 21, 2009, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Plus, potheads are lazy.

And hungry.

olePigeon · Oct 21, 2009, 02:52 PM

Start a convenience store that's called Pot & Kettle.

You sell joints and junk food.

BadKosh · Oct 21, 2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Case in point...

And tell me, how is marijuana's effect on your decision making ANY different than the effect of alcohol on your decision making?

Hypocite: A person who does NOT support the legalization of marijuana but thinks the sale and consumption of alcohol is perfectly fine.

To be consistent in one's rationale and reasoning, if you beleive marijuana should be illegal you must also support making sale and consumption of alcohol illegal. If you don't, you're a hypocrite and inconsistent in your beliefs. The same reasoning one uses to support keeping marijuana illegal can be EQUALLY applied to alcohol.

You prove my point. Your making an assumption that the effect of pot is just like the effects of booze. They work differently. I used to do both. Not any more.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Yeah...we need more addictive drugs and such legalized. Just think how well you will be able to make decisions!

Marijuana is not addictive. Alcohol, on the other hand, is.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

You prove my point. Your making an assumption that the effect of pot is just like the effects of booze. They work differently. I used to do both. Not any more.

Yes, they are different. The effects of pot are generally recognized as less negative than the effects of alcohol. (In fact, pot is recognized by many states as a legitimate treatment for a wide array of diseases. You know how many things alcohol is prescribed for? Zero, unless your doctor is Larry the Cable Guy.)

BadKosh · Oct 21, 2009, 04:56 PM

Yeah, I know people who've smoked pot for 30 years and they aren't hooked.

(stolen from Richard Pryor)

BadKosh · Oct 21, 2009, 04:58 PM

So are you saying that either is good? Potheads and drunks make all sorts of stupid decisions while wasted.

Chongo · Oct 21, 2009, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

My understanding from friends is that marijuana is easy to grow and prepare yourself, more so than tobacco. My guess is they don't want to get into that.

Unlike tobacco, Mota will grow anywhere. This is why it will never be made legal. The Feds won't have the control over it like they do tobacco. While it is legal to make beer and wine ( up to a certain amount), making distilled liquor is still illegal.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

So are you saying that either is good? Potheads and drunks make all sorts of stupid decisions while wasted.

Marijuana has many beneficial effects. As medicine, it has a lot more benefits and a lot fewer drawbacks than even many over-the-counter medications. For instance, I'd much rather somebody mellow out with pot than use an addictive medication like Valium.

As a recreational drug, yeah, it can make you stupid. I can understand why you wouldn't want to do it, and I'm not saying you should. But people have a right to be stupid — that's what living in a free country means. They do it all the time without any help from marijuana at all. As long as they're not endangering others, they should be allowed (much like with alcohol now).

PB2K · Oct 21, 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Marijuana is not addictive. Alcohol, on the other hand, is.

I do not agree, the semi-legalization in the Netherlands has increased potency of marijuana to such a level that people can be addicted to it. This new stuff is grown in illegal greenhouses with cutting edge cultivation techniques. Cities close to the border also have to deal with drug trafficking as surrounding countries don't have our easy policies about softdrugs.

However we don't treat addicts like criminals as in the US, but like patients who need help.

Chuckit · Oct 21, 2009, 06:12 PM

We cannot just say "it's addictive." What compound in marijuana has physically addictive properties? I'm sure it's possible to make marijuana addictive by changing it (ditto for Sprite and Vitamin Water), but from all the studies I've seen, normal weed does not appear to be addictive in and of itself.

Rumor · Oct 21, 2009, 09:15 PM

Tobacco is illegal to grow unless you have a permit.

Also, you can sit in a police department for months and will often hear something similar to "Bob is drunk and is beating his wife/wrecked his car/got into a barfight/ being a nuisance etc" several times a week, if not nightly. It is highly unlikely to hear anything similar if Bob has been smoking pot. You may hear "Bob is baked and won't leave the all you can eat buffet again".

sek929 · Oct 21, 2009, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Yeah, I know people who've smoked pot for 30 years and they aren't hooked.

(stolen from Richard Pryor)

Would someone be considered an alcoholic if they drank a frosty beer a couple of times a week for 30 years?

If you could bear with me, which of the following are synonymous with alcohol and pot?

Fights, domestic abuse, vehicular homicide, liver cancer, rape, teen pregnancy, overdose.

Ok, I admit, it was a stacked list, but I'll be honest and try my best to come up with some negatives for pot.

Silly behavior, hungry, sleepy, forgetful, relaxed, non-confrontational, low blood sugar, red eyes.

Look at the two lists and decide who the criminals are, take all night if you have to.

Rumor · Oct 21, 2009, 10:56 PM

Teen pregnancy can be caused by both.

besson3c · Oct 21, 2009, 11:08 PM

I simply don't understand how being against pot is compatible with the whole no-government interference part of the Republican party, yet I don't disbelieve the breakdown above.

It seems like many Conservatives see many things as simply black and white/evil and good, and if it's on their evil list that's just the way it is, and they'll fight to keep it that way tooth and nail. In this respect I definitely consider myself a progressive. Times change, society changes, people change, all sorts of things change. I don't believe in clinging to the past.

lpkmckenna · Oct 22, 2009, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

At the very least it needs to be decriminalized. Stop wasting our tax dollars chasing and incarcerating potheads.

The War on Drugs is such a money hole I can't understand why conservatives don't see why ending abolition would be a perfect campaign strategy. Cut gov't spending, taxes, and gov't interference in our private lives, and decriminalization would end gang financing, thus be a strong law and order talking point. "Drug warrior conservatives" are hypocites, frankly.

It's really a generational thing. Once the current group of seniors dies off, decriminalization will proceed.

BTW, you can't solve addiction with law enforcement any more than you can solve cancer with law enforcement. Anyone who can't see this is clueless.

besson3c · Oct 22, 2009, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

The War on Drugs is such a money hole I can't understand why conservatives don't see why ending abolition would be a perfect campaign strategy. Cut gov't spending, taxes, and gov't interference in our private lives, and decriminalization would end gang financing, thus be a strong law and order talking point. "Drug warrior conservatives" are hypocites, frankly.

It's really a generational thing. Once the current group of seniors dies off, decriminalization will proceed.

BTW, you can't solve addiction with law enforcement any more than you can solve cancer with law enforcement. Anyone who can't see this is clueless.

Exactly right. My theory is that drugs have just been made a "bad" thing in the black and white thinking of some/many Conservatives.

Rumor · Oct 22, 2009, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I simply don't understand how being against pot is compatible with the whole no-government interference part of the Republican party, yet I don't disbelieve the breakdown above.

It seems like many Conservatives see many things as simply black and white/evil and good, and if it's on their evil list that's just the way it is, and they'll fight to keep it that way tooth and nail. In this respect I definitely consider myself a progressive. Times change, society changes, people change, all sorts of things change. I don't believe in clinging to the past.

Which is why I do not understand why being a conservative is a good thing. Things change, and they change (usually) for the better. This is beyond a liberal/conservative or democrat/republican standpoint since they seem to stand against what the other is for no matter what.

As a species, we need to progress. Regression or standing in one spot does us no good.

shifuimam · Oct 22, 2009, 08:27 AM

Maybe marijuana isn't as physiologically addicting, but it seems like (in my completely unofficial study, at least) more people who smoke weed make a hard habit of it. The weed smokers I have known went from "once in awhile" to "every weekend" to "daily" pretty damn quickly.

On the other hand, I've only met two alcoholics. Everyone else I know who consumes alcohol does it rarely or infrequently at most.

It also seems like people don't typically use marijuana in the way that people drink alcohol - I (and everyone I know) rarely have ever had alcohol in order to get hammered, whereas people who get high seem to like getting, you know, stoned.

There may be other valid arguments for both the use and legalization of marijuana, but I don't think that it can be directly compared to alcohol.

Wiskedjak · Oct 22, 2009, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by kido331

i can be in a room filled with people drinking and not get drunk.

Do you think the smoking of cigarettes, cigars and pipes should be criminalized?

BadKosh · Oct 22, 2009, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by sek929

Would someone be considered an alcoholic if they drank a frosty beer a couple of times a week for 30 years?

If you could bear with me, which of the following are synonymous with alcohol and pot?

Fights, domestic abuse, vehicular homicide, liver cancer, rape, teen pregnancy, overdose.

Ok, I admit, it was a stacked list, but I'll be honest and try my best to come up with some negatives for pot.

Silly behavior, hungry, sleepy, forgetful, relaxed, non-confrontational, low blood sugar, red eyes.

Look at the two lists and decide who the criminals are, take all night if you have to.

Arbitrary.

How about for pot:
Stupid, lazy, crabby attitude when 'out' for a few days, draining more $$ from your accounts (about 400 bucks a month for 2 ounces*), and problems passing drug tests for better jobs etc. I know potheads who've wasted half their lives hanging with their pothead buddies, looking for better pot, risking their private property by growing some in their houses, and hiding their addictions from the mainstream.

400 bucks a month for a year is 4800 bucks. over 10 years 48,000 bucks. Looks like the beginnings of retirement savings. 30 years - 150K or there abouts before the mafia inflation. Since you don't have any regulations on what you get, who knows what else you are smoking?

Wiskedjak · Oct 22, 2009, 08:40 AM

My only position on the marijuana issue:
If marijuana is illegal, alcohol and nicotine should be as well. Anything else is hypocritical.

Mrjinglesusa · Oct 22, 2009, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Arbitrary.

How about for pot:
Stupid, lazy, crabby attitude when 'out' for a few days, draining more $$ from your accounts (about 400 bucks a month for 2 ounces*), and problems passing drug tests for better jobs etc. I know potheads who've wasted half their lives hanging with their pothead buddies, looking for better pot, risking their private property by growing some in their houses, and hiding their addictions from the mainstream.

400 bucks a month for a year is 4800 bucks. over 10 years 48,000 bucks. Looks like the beginnings of retirement savings. 30 years - 150K or there abouts before the mafia inflation. Since you don't have any regulations on what you get, who knows what else you are smoking?

That's their own damn problem. Who cares if someone decides to smoke pot and use their own money to buy pot and has to take a job at McDonald's to pay for their pot?

Sounds like you have a PERSONAL problem with people who smoke pot. You have yet to provide any LEGITIMATE argument why pot should be illegal.

Look, even if pot were legal I wouldn't smoke it and neither would the majority of people who don't smoke it now. It's just not for me. As long as they craft laws that regulate WHERE you can smoke pot (i.e., not in public, only in the privacy of your home) and they tax the s**t out of it, I could really give a damn whether someone decides they want to be a pothead.

Besides, I'd take a pothead over a drunk anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Mrjinglesusa · Oct 22, 2009, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

My only position on the marijuana issue:
If marijuana is illegal, alcohol and nicotine should be as well. Anything else is hypocritical.

Exactly.

Doofy · Oct 22, 2009, 10:49 AM

Legalise that shiz. As soon as they figure out how to test for "toke/drive" and make sure none of my taxes go towards treating the forgetful for their illness.

Chongo · Oct 22, 2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Arbitrary.

How about for pot:
Stupid, lazy, crabby attitude when 'out' for a few days, draining more $$ from your accounts (about 400 bucks a month for 2 ounces*), and problems passing drug tests for better jobs etc. I know potheads who've wasted half their lives hanging with their pothead buddies, looking for better pot, risking their private property by growing some in their houses, and hiding their addictions from the mainstream.

400 bucks a month for a year is 4800 bucks. over 10 years 48,000 bucks. Looks like the beginnings of retirement savings. 30 years - 150K or there abouts before the mafia inflation. Since you don't have any regulations on what you get, who knows what else you are smoking?

How about $0 an ounce when you grow it in your basement/attic/closet. My sister grew marijuana in her back yard. She had a shed with a translucent roof, fed them a little tomato plant food, and viola', stupendousthunderphuck.

kido331 · Oct 22, 2009, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Do you think the smoking of cigarettes, cigars and pipes should be criminalized?

no, but then inhaling smoke from someone else's cigarette, cigar, or pipe does not get me high. the point i am making is that secondary smoke from marijuana may have an effect on others nearby, making it different from alcohol, so you can object without being a hypocrite.

of course the same restrictions that are currently placed on smoking will apply to marijuana in polite society, but are people going to set up designated smoking areas and designated marijuana areas? imagine you and 30 other people smoking marijuana in the enclosed designated smoking area at the airport when in come a couple pilots to just smoke a couple of cigarettes for half an hour before they go to work. you would be completely comfortable with that scenario?

SpaceMonkey · Oct 22, 2009, 01:01 PM

I think there would be a virtual ban on smoking marijuana in public for exactly that reason, just as we're seeing an emerging virtual ban on smoking cigarettes in public for health reasons. But that's a lot different than criminalizing it.

Chuckit · Oct 22, 2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Legalise that shiz. As soon as they figure out how to test for "toke/drive" and make sure none of my taxes go towards treating the forgetful for their illness.

They already can test for marijuana, and I don't believe there is any treatment for forgetfulness (I know many non-potheads afflicted with it).

BadKosh · Oct 22, 2009, 02:32 PM

The only good that would come from legalizing it would be the mafia gets less bucks. If I was retired and had nothing better to do then I'd prolly grow it myself. Back in the mid-80's I had some great results growing it.

Chuckit · Oct 22, 2009, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

The only good that would come from legalizing it would be the mafia gets less bucks.

And, y'know, we'd have a more legit claim to call ourselves a free country. If people are only free to do the things we'd like them to do, we're not much better than China. It's important to allow people to do things we disagree with as long as those things don't hurt anyone.

sek929 · Oct 22, 2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by kido331

no, but then inhaling smoke from someone else's cigarette, cigar, or pipe does not get me high. the point i am making is that secondary smoke from marijuana may have an effect on others nearby, making it different from alcohol, so you can object without being a hypocrite.

Maybe the tar could effect others, but the THC vaporised during smoking only stays viable for a few seconds. A 'contact high' can be achieved in only the most cramped surroundings with a LOT of weed being smoked. You can take my word on this.

sek929 · Oct 22, 2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Arbitrary.

How about for pot:
Stupid, lazy, crabby attitude when 'out' for a few days, draining more $$ from your accounts (about 400 bucks a month for 2 ounces*), and problems passing drug tests for better jobs etc. I know potheads who've wasted half their lives hanging with their pothead buddies, looking for better pot, risking their private property by growing some in their houses, and hiding their addictions from the mainstream.

400 bucks a month for a year is 4800 bucks. over 10 years 48,000 bucks. Looks like the beginnings of retirement savings. 30 years - 150K or there abouts before the mafia inflation. Since you don't have any regulations on what you get, who knows what else you are smoking?

Everything you say here has absolutely no bearing on whether or not pot should be illegal. I think people who spend thousands on jetskis and lawn care products are idiots, but that doesn't mean they should be thrown in jail.

I have yet to hear one solid reason for the illegality of pot in this thread thus far. If somebody wants to eat enough food for two families, spending thousands extra, killing themselves it's perfectly legal, but being 'lazy and hanging with lame friends' somehow carries a criminal penalty? Gimme a break.

Saying pot should be decriminalized doesn't have to be an endorsement of pot use, you understand this right?

sek929 · Oct 22, 2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

They already can test for marijuana.

Sure can, and I'll be the first to say it's really easy to tell is somebody is baked.

Legalize it, tax it, and arrest people for DUI just like booze....case f**kin closed