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God Bless America (Page 5)
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subego
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Oct 7, 2010, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
To say that this system is "not a good idea" is a slap in the people's face that chose this system for themselves.
[Gets in line to slap them]
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Oct 7, 2010, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
No, you're just backpeddling and trying to cloud the issue. The point was, deadbeats don't automagically turn honest people in a system into deadbeats also.
The proposed analogy is not analogous

If true, this is exactly what I was talking about- a government acting stupid
Your premise assumes your conclusion.

make part of what they already pay in taxes, or an additional amount, cover fire.
It's been tried there, it didn't fly. Why are you trying to save them from themselves? Are you their nanny?

Gee, guess that may mean $75 less worth of paper-shuffling or fatass bureaucrat stripbar money, but boo-freakin'-hoo.
Where are you getting this from? For all you know they don't even pay any taxes at all. So how do you know they're wasting it (aside from your premise assuming your conclusion, of course)?

So now you're back to this. Why does finding the $75 in a better way equate to seeing the FD department disappear?
Are you insane? That's like saying they should pay off the national debt by "just making more money." *How*?

Boredom I guess.
Actually, I love threads like this, where the usual cast of characters is thoroughly shuffled. It's really quite extraordinary.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Oct 7, 2010, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Are you insane? That's like saying they should pay off the national debt by "just making more money." *How*?
That made no sense what-so-ever.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Oct 7, 2010, 05:22 PM
 
If your solution to non-payment amounts to nothing more than "find the payment in a better way," your solution is no solution at all.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Oct 7, 2010, 05:32 PM
 
You're an odd character US, I'll give you that.

You've essentially stated the same thing I've said in this thread, saying the middle ground:

Yes there is, it would be to make the fee into a tax and force everyone to pay it.
Yet here you are -just for the sake of argument?- equating something you yourself said as somehow akin to printing money to pay the national debt (Huh? I still don't get where you came up with that) or "no solution at all."

Anyway, whatever. The whole issue isn't worth the time any of us are wasting arguing about it.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Oct 7, 2010, 06:33 PM
 
Oh that. From what I can tell, history has proved that this particular county doesn't want that. I don't know why this is so surprising, it's not uncommon for the middle ground to be rejected by one or both sides. In any event, it's not up to the rest of us to tell Obion county how to run their affairs.

Edit: I mean how to design the rules. Once the rules are in place, telling individuals how to play by them is up to us
( Last edited by Uncle Skeleton; Oct 7, 2010 at 06:39 PM. )
     
smacintush
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Oh that. From what I can tell, history has proved that this particular county doesn't want that. I don't know why this is so surprising, it's not uncommon for the middle ground to be rejected by one or both sides. In any event, it's not up to the rest of us to tell Obion county how to run their affairs.

Edit: I mean how to design the rules. Once the rules are in place, telling individuals how to play by them is up to us
I don't see how moving from a voluntary payment system to a forced payment system can be considered the "middle ground." In my mind, we have the extreme of forced payment on one end, and no options at all on the other. Somewhere in the middle is a system where those who want fire service are able to pay and get it, and those who don't want to pay for such a service don't have to.

Other than that…
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
turtle777
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Oct 7, 2010, 08:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
I don't see how moving from a voluntary payment system to a forced payment system can be considered the "middle ground." In my mind, we have the extreme of forced payment on one end, and no options at all on the other. Somewhere in the middle is a system where those who want fire service are able to pay and get it, and those who don't want to pay for such a service don't have to.
Very good point

-t
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Oct 7, 2010, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
I don't see how moving from a voluntary payment system to a forced payment system can be considered the "middle ground."
Because it costs the least
     
smacintush
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Oct 7, 2010, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Because it costs the least
Ah. I wasn't thinking in terms of cost.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
besson3c
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Oct 8, 2010, 12:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I think you missed the part where the citizens VOTED over this issue, and decided AGAINST additional taxes.

Really, this whole "issue" is a perfect example if a functioning democracy.
People deliberate, decide, and then you have to play and abide by the rules.

If you don't, don't expect a handout.

To say that this system is "not a good idea" is a slap in the people's face that chose this system for themselves.

-t


I can respect their decision and appreciate democracy for what it is without thinking that it was a particularly good decision, just like I didn't think it was a good decision to elect George W. Bush twice and you didn't think it was a good idea to elect Obama.
     
Demonhood
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Oct 8, 2010, 05:16 PM
 
Does anyone's opinion change knowing that the family lost 3 dogs and 1 cat in the fire as well?
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Oct 8, 2010, 05:22 PM
 
I was thinking about that this morning. The garbage fire started out in a field. It slowly spread towards the house. The family called 911 several times trying to get help _before_ it reached the house. This was enough time to evacuate the house. Why the hell were the pets trapped inside?
     
smacintush
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Oct 8, 2010, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Does anyone's opinion change knowing that the family lost 3 dogs and 1 cat in the fire as well?
No, not really. It only reinforces my opinion that the owner acted irresponsibly.

I certainly don't think firefighters should be expected to risk their lives to save pets.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
turtle777
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Oct 8, 2010, 07:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
Does anyone's opinion change knowing that the family lost 3 dogs and 1 cat in the fire as well?
No, knowing what an idiot the owner was, the cats and dogs are happy to be in dog&cat heaven.

-t
     
olePigeon
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Oct 8, 2010, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I was thinking about that this morning. The garbage fire started out in a field. It slowly spread towards the house. The family called 911 several times trying to get help _before_ it reached the house. This was enough time to evacuate the house. Why the hell were the pets trapped inside?
I heard his brother died after being run over by a slow moving steamroller.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
 
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