[Kerrigan]

Why is it "racist" to demand Obama's college transcripts? The only racist element that I can discern here is the notion that a non-white individual's academic performance, no matter how good or bad, is beyond reproach.

[besson3c]

What is the reasoning behind wanting them?

[Dork.]

He was the president of the Harvard Law Review and the university has verified that he graduated magna cum laude. This is even more absurd than the birther thing. There seems to be a concerted effort going on to spread FUD about Obama's background. I don't know whether it's racism or just good old fashioned smear politics. In any case, it's sillier (and more full of poop) than a besson3c post.

[Kerrigan]

Politicians' academic histories are always scrutinized. Bush was heavily scrutinized for going to Yale, and subsequently to Harvard business school (the latter an accomplishment that he rightfully earned). Al Gore flunked out of Vandy divinity school, and received a lot of criticism for this.

People have a right to ask questions about their leaders' academic performances.. but now that people are demanding information about Obama's grades, they're being deemed "racists." This is a sickening development in politics.

[Kerrigan]

Note: I personally think that Obama's appointment as Law Review president is an impressive accomplishment, and I frankly don't care what his grades were. I just want to know why his grades are regarded, by some, as a matter of delicate privity, of which any questioning or criticism is dismissed as racist.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'll agree that it's "not racist", if you'll agree that it's "stupid." Deal?

[OAW]

Because when our good friends on the right came up with more excuses than a hooker in church for G-Dub being a C student AT BEST … despite his rich daddy's money … you really ought not go there. I'm just saying …

OAW

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Note: I personally think that Obama's appointment as Law Review president is an impressive accomplishment, and I frankly don't care what his grades were. I just want to know why his grades are regarded, by some, as a matter of delicate privity, of which any questioning or criticism is dismissed as racist.

Do you know what "magna cum laude" means?

[imitchellg5]

Because racism is the only explanation I can see for being so ****ing anal about a person in a position where I'm pretty sure no one else has ever cared about seeing transcripts.

[Gee-Man]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Politicians' academic histories are always scrutinized. Bush was heavily scrutinized for going to Yale, and subsequently to Harvard business school (the latter an accomplishment that he rightfully earned). Al Gore flunked out of Vandy divinity school, and received a lot of criticism for this.

People have a right to ask questions about their leaders' academic performances.. but now that people are demanding information about Obama's grades, they're being deemed "racists." This is a sickening development in politics.

If there were some question or dispute about Obama's academic performance, then you might have a point. However, no one is disputing that he a) graduated near the top of his class at Harvard, b) was well-respected by his peers and professions, and c) went on to a very prestigious position as editor of the Harvard Law Review. Logic would indicate that it is highly unlikely that someone with supposedly "terrible grades", and no other means of support, like connections in high places or rich parents/relatives, could pull off something like that and get into Harvard. It's not like you can graduate magna cum laude by accident - you either have the grades or you don't. And that kind of discipline doesn't just show up once you get to Harvard, either.

So exactly what reason or basis does anyone have for demanding his academic records? What's the suspicion here?

The reason why this line of inquiry makes many people uncomfortable is historical. I can speak from personal experience here - as an African-American who went to college and graduated with honors (although nowhere near as accomplished a school as Harvard, mine was a mere state school), I can tell you first hand that I, and many of my minority friends, had to politely endure endless amounts of "questioning" of my reason for being at the school in the first place, as if the starting assumption was "you don't belong here, are you sure your grades got you in, or is it because you have a different skin color than me?" You really have to trust me on this, I and many others like me heard this A LOT. This was back in the mid-80s, so it's not like we're talking about the Jim Crow era or anything.

Some of those people questioning my "right" to be in college were outright racists, who felt that any black person in the school was unfairly taking the place of a white person. Others were not racists, but they simply hadn't examined their internal assumptions, and subconsciously thought to themselves that any non-white person must have had some kind of "help" to get where they are. Either way, whether intentional or not, it's highly offensive and racist, especially coming from people who know nothing at all about me or my qualifications. So when you have a person (Obama) who has reached the highest political office in the world, the first black president, and you have people dredging up that old standby challenge "you aren't supposed to be here", especially when there's no evidence whatsoever that there's any basis for asking that question... yeah, it does sound very, very familiar. It's difficult not to think there's a race component there, given how incredibly common this is for any student of color of a certain age to hear.

There's enough plausible deniability here that many who don't know, or claim to not know this racial history can say that "I'm just asking questions", but let's be real - some, if not many, of the people "just asking questions" about the birth certificate really didn't give a crap about the birth certificate, they're just looking to find ways to either bring down the president, or simply don't like his race, which automatically carries with it the assumption that he's "unqualified". Otherwise, why would they pursue this line of questioning even when all evidence points to it being completely without merit?

[Dork.]

Sorry to nitpick, but the Harvard Law Review is run by students, and he was named President in his second (and final) year at Harvard (so he didn't "go on" to that position after Harvard). But that doesn't really matter.

[Kerrigan]

No, I have no idea what magna cum laude is. Did he get this fancy appellation at Accidental and Columbia, too? (Sorry, I know that was a racist question)

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

No, I have no idea what magna cum laude is. Did he get this fancy appellation at Accidental and Columbia, too? (Sorry, I know that was a racist question)

It's generally being in the top 10 or 5% of your graduating class, although some schools use it as the title for the graduating senior with the highest grades.

[Wiskedjak]

If you're going to be even remotely concerned about someone's academic record, you should be at least a little aware of what "magna cum laude" means. Otherwise, you risk not being able to understand what you're seeing in the record that you're concerned about.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Because when our good friends on the right came up with more excuses than a hooker in church for G-Dub being a C student AT BEST … despite his rich daddy's money … you really ought not go there. I'm just saying …

OAW

John Kerry's grades weren't much better. Bush had a higher SAT score, 1206 to Kerry's 1190

[Sealobo]

did anyone bother to check George W. Bush's college transcript?

[Chongo]

George W. Bush's YALE Transcript: GeorgeWBush.org :: Official Site to Re-Select Bush/Cheney in 2004!

[Sealobo]

it's a bit blurry... but... JWB took Spanish in 1st and 2nd year and Japanese in the 4th year?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

No, I have no idea what magna cum laude is. Did he get this fancy appellation at Accidental and Columbia, too? (Sorry, I know that was a racist question)

Latin honors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It means different things at different schools, but generally it means the graduate did well in relation to his peers. It means his GPA was probably in the top 10% of graduates (my wild guess -- Some schools do it by GPA threshold, but I'm willing to bet the Ivy League schools still do it by class rank). In other words, there's no need to look in his transcript, Harvard has verified though the honor that he not only met the requirements for his degree, he exceeded them.

When this information about his academic accomplishments is so easily accessible, it makes you wonder why they are being questioned.

Then again, he didn't make summa. What the heck was wrong with him?

[subego]

How's about "special needs" instead of "racist"?

[stupendousman]

For whatever reason, it would appear he did well at Harvard.

I think that the question is how he got there in the first place. I think that those "in the know" realize that it's possible he may got there via various affirmative actions (and not his grades) and pointing out that he may have gotten where he is not via merit, but rather via a handout that out is "racist."

Of course, George Bush released his transcripts and was accused of much the same thing, except for instead of racial affirmative action, he was accused of receiving paternal affirmative action. It was okay though, because Bush was a Republican and it's acceptable to use any means necessary to find fault with them and for the media to investigate every possible negative on them to create "news" that would be unhelpful to them.

Their may be racists who don't like Obama who would like to see his grades to add one more thing to dislike him for, the request for the grades is in no way racist. That's one of the stupidest thing's I've heard in awhile.

[Chongo]

Supposedly this guy got Obama into Harvard.
YouTube - Khalid Al-Mansour

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

It was okay though, because Bush was a Republican and it's acceptable to use any means necessary to find fault with them and for the media to investigate every possible negative on them to create "news" that would be unhelpful to them.

This statement is awesome coming from you! It's unfortunate you aren't capable of realizing the irony.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

George W. Bush's YALE Transcript: GeorgeWBush.org :: Official Site to Re-Select Bush/Cheney in 2004!

Did anyone physically inspect it to verify it's authenticity?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Supposedly this guy got Obama into Harvard.
YouTube - Khalid Al-Mansour

Heh, that's one I hadn't heard about before. But the fine folks at WorldNetDaily already knew about it back in 2008:

Originally Posted by From WND

A few weeks back, I wrote a column titled, "Who Wrote 'Dreams From My Father'?" My research led me to the conclusion that a literary neophyte like Obama could not have written the memoir on his own. It was simply too well crafted.

...

"The whole story smells of purposeful intervention," I wrote. "The whole book does. A political career holds more promise when launched with a lovely memoir under one's belt than with an unfulfilled contract over one's head. Much more."

"The question remains," I concluded, "who did the intervening and why?" I sensed and still do an affluent and unseen political godfather, someone with a grander vision than Bill Ayers or Tony Rezko.

...

Knowing that Sutton had friends at Harvard, al-Mansour asked Sutton to "please write a letter in support of [Obama] ... a young man that has applied to Harvard." Sutton gladly did so.

Although Sutton does not specify a date, this would likely have been in 1988 when the 27-year-old Obama was applying to Harvard Law.

Two years later, while still a law student, Obama improbably received an advance to write a memoir that would be called "Dreams From My Father" when finally published in 1995.

Read those excerpts in light of Gee-Man's post. The author starts from the presumption that Obama couldn't possibly had written his book by himself, then finds a reason to turn a recommendation letter into proof that Obama wasn't qualified to go to Harvard, and only got in because of some intervention. Never mind the fact that letters of recommendation are a normal part of the college application process, and Obama's accomplishments once he got there clearly proved he was Harvard material.

Is the author racist? Probably not. But the story sounds awfully familiar to some.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Did anyone physically inspect it to verify it's authenticity?

IIRC, Bush's academic record was leaked (probably unlawfully) by someone in the media during the 2004 campaign, and Bush released some transcripts in response to the leak. Not that there was anything in there we didn't know: Bush basically admitted he was a C student while in school numerous times. Nor should one's accomplishments in school necessarily dictate someone's potential for the rest of their lives: Bush did go on to do some pretty remarkable things (like trading Sammy Sosa. )

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Their may be racists who don't like Obama who would like to see his grades to add one more thing to dislike him for, the request for the grades is in no way racist. That's one of the stupidest thing's I've heard in awhile.

What information is there in his transcript that could possibly add constructively to what we already know about Obama? Should we look into his High School Basketball statistics as well?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Should we look into his High School Basketball statistics as well?

That depends - did he get into college/university based on those statistics? And did his subsequent college performance get him into Harvard? If so we have a direct link between these statistics and his entrance into Harvard and it's not a stretch to say this is a completely valid request.

greg
thanks for looking though

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Did anyone physically inspect it to verify it's authenticity?

The question is, would a major news outlet who was not interested in vetting Obama as a candidate for the highest office in the land be willing to forge a document to slander him? That's really the point in all this; a means to remind the media and everyone else that there is a great deal we've known of almost every person who has served the office of the Presidency except Obama and how complicit they've been in this that a real estate tycoon with a tv show would have to be the one to ask.

McDonald's runs background checks for crying out loud.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

The question is, would a major news outlet who was not interested in vetting Obama as a candidate for the highest office in the land be willing to forge a document to slander him? That's really the point in all this; a means to remind the media and everyone else that there is a great deal we've known of almost every person who has served the office of the Presidency except Obama and how complicit they've been in this that a real estate tycoon with a tv show would have to be the one to ask.

McDonald's runs background checks for crying out loud.

So, what do you want to know about Obama that you don't? Do you doubt that he did well in school?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

This statement is awesome coming from you! It's unfortunate you aren't capable of realizing the irony.

I don't see the irony in my sarcasm.

The point is that no one accused virtually all of the media, and those on the left of having some kind of evil and prejudiced motives in unearthing everything negative on Bush that was possible to come up with - even to the point of forging things to try to make him look back. Well, maybe the red handed forging did roll a few eyes, but the point is that Obama has had a lot less scrutiny from the "4th Estate" than Bush and most other Republican candidate, and when opposition requests materials from which to vet a Democrat's experience and credentials, there's a lot of hypocritical whining and crying to the point now where the race card is pulled when it makes little logical sense.

How that's ironic based on any past position I've taken, I haven't a clue.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I don't see the irony in my sarcasm.

...

How that's ironic based on any past position I've taken, I haven't a clue.

I know. *That's* what is so ironic.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I know. *That's* what is so ironic.

I think that the problem is that you don't comprehend sarcasm.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

did anyone bother to check George W. Bush's college transcript?

Of course they did, those racists!

It's racist because that's how things are framed by the major media.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So, what do you want to know about Obama that you don't? Do you doubt that he did well in school?

I think maybe ebuddy is waiting for him to write a third book about his life. You know, like all the other Presidents did before we believed what they said about their life.

[besson3c]

I said it months/years ago, and I will say it again to bask in my righteousness... You *have* to be discerning in your arguments, you can't just hammer anything and everything remotely "bad" about Obama at length and expect people to listen the next time you want to blow a whistle. Do you remember that crazy list I came up with during campaign season listing all of the retarded arguments against Obama ranging from Wright to flag pins? This is pretty much just another one of those...

After the whole birther thing, this just seems ridiculous in a way that is probably heightened by the whole birther charade.

You know everything that you need to know about Obama, it's all out there, there are no grand conspiracies. Why not just focus on making good arguments that pertain to actual policy? You *want* Obama to be voted out of office, right?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

did anyone bother to check George W. Bush's college transcript?

If any president (hell anyone) ever deserved to have their qualifications questioned, its Dubya. The man could hardly string a sentence together for goodness sake.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Read those excerpts in light of Gee-Man's post. The author starts from the presumption that Obama couldn't possibly had written his book by himself

Nobody writes a book by themselves.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So, what do you want to know about Obama that you don't? Do you doubt that he did well in school?

You missed the point besson3c. The time to have truly vetted someone on matters such as academic achievement is during their candidacy for President, not more than two years into their service as President. While I'm sure the parties "interested" in this information would love nothing more than to scare up a negative fact or two, it is not facts they are interested in, but in the overall message; "this man has gotten and continues to get a pass from popular media" and as a result "you haven't a clue about the guy who's running your country".

Personally, I couldn't care less about Obama's grades. It's everything he's done since being legitimately born in the US and successfully completing college that has bothered me. I'm looking forward to the debates on his performance as President, but it's still early and there's plenty of time for that as the election approaches.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

If any president (hell anyone) ever deserved to have their qualifications questioned, its Dubya. The man could hardly string a sentence together for goodness sake.

Your credentials and transcripts please sir?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Nobody writes a book by themselves.

You know what I mean. The author in the WND post was implying that Obama's first book was not written by Obama at all. It turns out the author (Jack Cashill) wrote his own book detailing how it's impossible that Obama wrote his. How did I miss this classic of Western Literature during the campaign?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Your credentials and transcripts please sir?

Well for a start if you read what just you quoted, you'll see I strung a sentence together. Wait, I just did it again!. And again!

Vote for me!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

You missed the point besson3c. The time to have truly vetted someone on matters such as academic achievement is during their candidacy for President, not more than two years into their service as President.

Maybe the popular media's "free pass" stems from the fact that they saw a short-form birth certificate and "magna cum laude" on his Harvard transcripts and said "hell...there's no way we're wasting everyone's time over this useless shit"?

If so...I applaud the foresight and nobility of the popular media in this decision

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Well for a start if you read what just you quoted, you'll see I strung a sentence together. Wait, I just did it again!. And again!

Vote for me!

Oh snap

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Maybe the popular media's "free pass" stems from the fact that they saw a short-form birth certificate and "magna cum laude" on his Harvard transcripts and said "hell...there's no way we're wasting everyone's time over this useless shit"?

Bush had an honorable discharge. That never stopped the media, up to and including forging documents to prove otherwise.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

You missed the point besson3c. The time to have truly vetted someone on matters such as academic achievement is during their candidacy for President, not more than two years into their service as President. While I'm sure the parties "interested" in this information would love nothing more than to scare up a negative fact or two, it is not facts they are interested in, but in the overall message; "this man has gotten and continues to get a pass from popular media" and as a result "you haven't a clue about the guy who's running your country".

Puullleease.. Various people at Fox News and your Palins and Becks and the like have been all over his ass from day one, and the media has lapped up every minute of reporting about the latest escapades from these sorts of characters. There is a reason why people like Palin have a forum, it's because it can be monetized, and because people are paying attention.

It's a little disingenuous for some to point out how Fox News kicks ass in ratings more than any other station given that this is largely on the coat tails of Beck and O'Reilly and the like - people whose niche is to scrutinize Obama, while making the argument that Obama has gotten a free pass. Bullshit.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Obama's grades. It's everything he's done since being legitimately born in the US and successfully completing college that has bothered me. I'm looking forward to the debates on his performance as President, but it's still early and there's plenty of time for that as the election approaches.

Then as a smart guy and leader at least here on MacNN, why not encourage a focus of what is actually important rather than all of this arms race of stupid stuff? Wasn't it you that was saying in an earlier thread something along the lines of how silence implies tacet agreement?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Puullleease.. Various people at Fox News and your Palins and Becks and the like have been all over his ass from day one, and the media has lapped up every minute of reporting about the latest escapades from these sorts of characters. There is a reason why people like Palin have a forum, it's because it can be monetized, and because people are paying attention.

There is a select audience of people who tune in to the 3 hours of punditry on Fox. Spare me yet another complaint of Beck [is he even still @ Fox?], O'Reilly, and Palin in a 24-hour news cycle.

It's a little disingenuous for some to point out how Fox News kicks ass in ratings more than any other station given that this is largely on the coat tails of Beck and O'Reilly and the like - people whose niche is to scrutinize Obama, while making the argument that Obama has gotten a free pass. Bullshit.

A. You're railing on 3 hours of a 24hr news cycle. B. I've not touted Fox News' ratings and their news reporting affirmed Obama's legitimate US citizenry while remaining silent on the grades query as far as I know. C. Your problem is with pundits and while their popularity does suggest folks aren't getting this information elsewhere, it is a select audience of people who tune in; a niche. The AP typically has more pull in the global coverage of politics.

Then as a smart guy and leader at least here on MacNN, why not encourage a focus of what is actually important rather than all of this arms race of stupid stuff? Wasn't it you that was saying in an earlier thread something along the lines of how silence implies tacet agreement?

Yes as that would be the same thread that I reiterated a problem with the "birther" supposition, Palin's ineptitude, Trump's bankruptcies, etc. It's not enough to acknowledge my leadership here while building strawmen from the rantings of my following.

(I'm no leader on MacNN though I accept your gracious compliment of smart guy-Thank you.)

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Well for a start if you read what just you quoted, you'll see I strung a sentence together.

Not correctly, which of course is ironic given your complaint.

Wait, I just did it again!. And again!

Yes, indeed.

Vote for me!

You win! Though, I'm certain you won't be happy with the prize.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

When this information about his academic accomplishments is so easily accessible, it makes you wonder why they are being questioned.

...or why he doesn't just release the records.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

...or why he doesn't just release the records.

Again, this is the same thing as the birther nonsense -- why should he have to? Why should Harvard's assertion that he graduated with Latin Honors not be sufficient? When I entered the work force after college, companies I interviewed with asked to see my transcripts, because I didn't have a professional record to go on. But when I got my last job, I had enough industry experience that all my current employer did was verify that I got the degrees I claimed I had. Why is Obama different? Does his grade in his Contract Law really matter?

You know what? Even if he did release his transcript, folks aren't going to be satisfied. They're going to find some reason to say the document was fake, or that the grades weren't earned (likely because Bill Ayers did all his homework for him).